How do you explain to your family in simple terms what a DO is?

[group_theory]

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A few times now patients have noticed the "osteopathic medicine" portion on my patch and asked about it.

My quick response: "Well, it's the same as the MD education, except we also learn some manual medicine in addition to everything else"

Quick and simple, right? Except patients always follow that statement with this next questions (for some strange reason they all ask this next question)

"So, you guys are better than MDs right?"

Of course, I usually blush when they say that and then I respond

"Well, not exactly. It's just an extra tool in the box in case we need it" and I leave it at that (but I get the impression the patients think I'm just being modest when in reality I don't have the time to go over the history, philosophy, actual differences in training, especially when I have more patients to pre-round and i'm running out of time)

There were a few times that patients noticed that I'm training to be a DO and then go on a spiel about how their favorite doctors were DOs and they loved the old osteopathic hopsital and yada yada yada ... all the while I'm trying to get the HPI so I can quickly finish my H&P and go back to sleep ...


The vast majority of patients (>90%) won't see a difference if I'm doing the H&P or if a Jefferson, Temple, Penn, Drexel, Penn State, or another MD student is doing the H&P - unless you are doing neuro or an orthopedic exam ... that's where those extra OMM labs help.

 

[ForbiddenComma]

DOs learn OMM and other tools to help them be more primary-care oriented.

MDs spend more time at basic sciences than DOs, especially at biochemistry.

What, did you guys suddenly get more days in your first two years of med school than us? The time you spend at OMM has to come from somewhere.

 

[Taus]

DOs learn OMM and other tools to help them be more primary-care oriented.

MDs spend more time at basic sciences than DOs, especially at biochemistry.

What, did you guys suddenly get more days in your first two years of med school than us? The time you spend at OMM has to come from somewhere.

its only a few hours a week on a couple afternoons....don't jump to conclusions on something you don't know anything about...

 

[Dr JPH]

DOs learn OMM and other tools to help them be more primary-care oriented.

True

MDs spend more time at basic sciences than DOs, especially at biochemistry.

What, did you guys suddenly get more days in your first two years of med school than us? The time you spend at OMM has to come from somewhere.

Not true.

It comes to around 250-300 hours in the first 2 years.

Generally 2.5-3.5 hours/week.

Not enough for them to compromise any other portion of our education.

I agree with Taus...if you dont know, ask. Dont assume.

 

[ForbiddenComma]

I go by what the DO students I rotate with tell me.

Compared to the DO school, our clinical skills class is a joke, whereas they actually learn... clinical skills, including things like how to start an IV. This is in addition to OMM.

But they do say their biochem class is slightly simplified.

Did I imply that one way was better than the other? Unlike you guys, no, I am not saying one is better than the other. There's some minor tradeoffs, that's all. Besides, I doubt biochem will be more useful than clinical skills for most doctors...

 

[DropkickMurphy]

.....our clinical skills class is a joke, whereas they actually learn... clinical skills, including things like how to start an IV.

Well, I guess I'll be ahead of the curve......

 

[Sirius Black]

What, did you guys suddenly get more days in your first two years of med school than us? The time you spend at OMM has to come from somewhere.

Perhaps. Our 1st semester of M2 year started on July 5th and ended on December 14th, with no breaks aside from 2 days for Thanksgiving. When did your M2 year start?

 

[Old_Mil]

I'm looking for the simplest definition when comparing it to an MD degree what is a DO and what makes it different. I have a few of my own but I wanted to see if someone has a more simpler way of doing it.

"Because of the history behind my medical school, I have to take some classes in chiropractic-like manipulation in addition to the the regular ones."

Short, sweet, to the point, and never leaves anyone with a misunderstanding of what's going on.

 

[DrBMX]

The answer is a combination of the following:

#3 Since more DOs match through the AOA Match, more DOs match into primary care residencies. Conversely, a lower % of DOs apply to ACGME specialty residencies than % of MDs.

That's the answer to why a greater % of DOs end up in the primary care field than %MDs.

False Statement. About 3200 DO graduate per year versus only 1000 spot in DO residency (According to USMLE First Aid, Introduction). So about 70% DO try to match into MD residency and the match rate is 70%.

Here, SDN, you can said whatever you want. From "DO is my first choice and I didn't go to MD school" to whatever you want, but the fact is MD is much harder to get in. I got in several DO schools last year and NONE MD school. I would say majority of DO students are MD rejects.

To the OP: Just told them, DO is a physician. That's it.

 

[thesauce]

To put in as simplest terms as possible, a DO is an "MD plus more". To cover my butt from the onslaught that will ensue on this forum, I'm NOT saying that DOs are smarter, better, or more competent than MDs. But the fact of the matter is, immediately after the 4 years of medical education necessary to earn the degree, the average osteopathic student will have more knowledge about treating patients than their allopathic counterparts.

Getting back to the point, you can add that the DO education focuses more on the musculoskeletal system, and that we learn how to use osteopathic techniques to treat patients before resorting to medicine or surgery. You can tell them that the philosophy is centered on the belief that abnormal structure is the main impediment to proper function (which is actually true at the molecular level as well, but you can't treat dysfunctional proteins with OMT unfortunately). If all this fails, just tell them what they really want to hear: we make the same amount of $$.

You won't make a lot of MD friends with that attitude. You may not have wanted to, but I wouldn't burn bridges like that.

 

[kwright26]

My stepsiblings, when I was applying and attempting to explain why DO and not MD, effectively boiled down the DO difference to "So you'd be a chiropractor, except you can give [sister] her Botox injections on the cheap?"

Yep. We'll go with that.

 

[37Base]

My stepsiblings, when I was applying and attempting to explain why DO and not MD, effectively boiled down the DO difference to "So you'd be a chiropractor, except you can give [sister] her Botox injections on the cheap?"

Yep. We'll go with that.

 

[group_theory]

Wow - I was a medical student when I first posted in this thread. A lot of things have changed since this thread was first started

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Wow - I was a medical student when I first posted in this thread. A lot of things have changed since this thread was first started

Did your opinion on being a DO or OMM change significantly since becoming a doctor and or finishing residency?

 

[group_theory]

Did your opinion on being a DO or OMM change significantly since becoming a doctor and or finishing residency?

At this level, I identify more with my specialty (sub-specialties to be more precise) than being a DO or MD. My DO friends in cardiology, heme/onc, GI, all identify more with their subspecialties than with being a DO.

I don't do OMT professionally (only on family member - perks of learning OMT). I'm the only DO in my group. I don't do anything different than my MD partners. I don't do HVLA, or rib raising, or Still's technique, or cranial, or muscle energy, or counterstrain. I prescribe drugs if indicated, CPAP/BiPap/oxygen if indicated, and initiate mechanical ventilation or CRRT or IABP or ECMO if indicated.

Yes, I believe the body is a unit. Yes, I believe the body can heal itself (for the most part). Yes, I believe structure affects function (and vice versa). While they may be osteopathic tenants, they are not exclusive to DOs. Getting the post-op open heart patients out of bed and ambulating is not an osteopathic technique, it's just good medicine.

I supervise MD fellows, residents, and students. I don't talk to them about sacral flexion or rotation, or recommend lymphatic drainage for ARDS 2nd to influenza - it's not in my realm anymore.

DO is my degree, just as MD are the degrees of my partners. My partners and I don't care one bit what our degrees are, or what the degrees of our colleagues/consultants are. We identify ourselves as physicians first, and specialist second. At the end of the day, you can slap MD on me and no one would be the wiser, or DO on my partners and no one would be the wiser.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

At this level, I identify more with my specialty (sub-specialties to be more precise) than being a DO or MD. My DO friends in cardiology, heme/onc, GI, all identify more with their subspecialties than with being a DO.

I don't do OMT professionally (only on family member - perks of learning OMT). I'm the only DO in my group. I don't do anything different than my MD partners. I don't do HVLA, or rib raising, or Still's technique, or cranial, or muscle energy, or counterstrain. I prescribe drugs if indicated, CPAP/BiPap/oxygen if indicated, and initiate mechanical ventilation or CRRT or IABP or ECMO if indicated.

Yes, I believe the body is a unit. Yes, I believe the body can heal itself (for the most part). Yes, I believe structure affects function (and vice versa). While they may be osteopathic tenants, they are not exclusive to DOs. Getting the post-op open heart patients out of bed and ambulating is not an osteopathic technique, it's just good medicine.

I supervise MD fellows, residents, and students. I don't talk to them about sacral flexion or rotation, or recommend lymphatic drainage for ARDS 2nd to influenza - it's not in my realm anymore.

DO is my degree, just as MD are the degrees of my partners. My partners and I don't care one bit what our degrees are, or what the degrees of our colleagues/consultants are. We identify ourselves as physicians first, and specialist second. At the end of the day, you can slap MD on me and no one would be the wiser, or DO on my partners and no one would be the wiser.

Why do you feel like unlike you many people still identify strongly as Osteopathic physicians or identify strongly under notions such as being a MD but more? Do you feel like being a DO in a primary care field pushes one to be more osteopathic or whether it's all just a very minor selection of people who really are want to believe?

 

[kenjixshadow]

Why do you feel like unlike you many people still identify strongly as Osteopathic physicians or identify strongly under notions such as being a MD but more?

Not picking on you, I just feel the need to rant. The DO physicians I've worked with never called themselves osteopathic physicians, they call themselves physicians. The one I see use "osteopathic" physicians are OMM faculties and DO deans, which make up only a small amount of DOs. They try to maintain that word as a separation between MD & DO when it shouldn't even be there. Further, at my school, they want every students to call our self "osteopathic medical student" in lieu of just medical student. That is a way of kool-aid drinkers will still identify themselves as such. Osteopathic this and osteopathic that, please, most of us go to DO to practice medicine, not to do OMM.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Not picking on you, I just feel the need to rant. The DO physicians I've worked with never called themselves osteopathic physicians, they call themselves physicians. The one I see use "osteopathic" physicians are OMM faculties and DO deans, which make up only a small amount of DOs. They try to maintain that word as a separation between MD & DO when it shouldn't even be there. Further, at my school, they want every students to call our self "osteopathic medical student" in lieu of just medical student. That is a way of kool-aid drinkers will still identify themselves as such. Osteopathic this and osteopathic that, please, most of us go to DO to practice medicine, not to do OMM.

Clearly, when I'm down with medical school and I forget 90% of the OS I learned I'll call myself a physician. Because that's what I am. I don't believe that I am any different than an MD physician.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

DOs learn OMM and other tools to help them be more primary-care oriented.

MDs spend more time at basic sciences than DOs, especially at biochemistry.

What, did you guys suddenly get more days in your first two years of med school than us? The time you spend at OMM has to come from somewhere.

This is a common misconception. We get the "extra time" by having shorter summers. On average we have 5-6 weeks off between M1 and M2, whereas most MD students get 8-10 weeks. OMM also eats up the time MDs usually use to do research, and no, we don't receive less biochemistry. I don't know where this myth has come from.

 

[JustPlainBill]

This is a common misconception. We get the "extra time" by having shorter summers. On average we have 5-6 weeks off between M1 and M2, whereas most MD students get 8-10 weeks. OMM also eats up the time MDs usually use to do research, and no, we don't receive less biochemistry. I don't know where this myth has come from.

Spoiler alert -- I have not bothered to read the entire thread ---

DOs learn OMM and other tools to help them be more primary-care oriented. --- actually, the DOs locked up the primary care market during WWII when the MDs got drafted after trying to get DOs shut out of medicine to the point where we had to open our own hospitals to practice medicine and admit patients. Turns out one of the people left back home during the war had a DO as a personal physician and decided to fill the gaps with DOs. OMM is rarely used these days and quite frankly, the constructs are outdated and we just don't have the time in the schedule so I don't really see how it helps me be more primary care oriented.

MDs spend more time at basic sciences than DOs, especially at biochemistry. What, did you guys suddenly get more days in your first two years of med school than us? The time you spend at OMM has to come from somewhere. --- Well, I don't know about you but I spent 2 years studying the basic sciences and at my school, we had a 96% pass rate of the USMLE -- which to my knowledge is the MD board exam so that means our basic sciences are at least the equivalent of yours, including the exposure to biochemistry. And our OMM time comes from spending 1 -2 afternoons from 1-5 in a large room with people half undressed when our MD colleagues are likely studying, at the gym or local watering hole. And to add to that, we didn't get the neat little packets of study materials that were handed out to UTSouthwestern students. To my understanding, if you knew what was in the packet, you could at least count on passing. No, my friend, we had to actually read and takes copious, detailed notes on Robbins and Cecil's, draw out on large butcher paper all the biochem pathways and their interactions, draw out nephrons and other such things during my education.

I can't speak for my colleagues, but I went to DO school because all I ever wanted to be was a solid, general practice physician treating womb to the tomb; To me, it's infinitely more challenging to have to be competent across that broad spectrum than to remain focused on one organ system or whatever ---

 

[kwright26]

Holy crap, I didn't even look at the date. I hadn't even graduated high school when this thread ENDED. Jeesh.

 

[Peach Newport]

baleeted

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Spoiler alert -- I have not bothered to read the entire thread ---

DOs learn OMM and other tools to help them be more primary-care oriented. --- actually, the DOs locked up the primary care market during WWII when the MDs got drafted after trying to get DOs shut out of medicine to the point where we had to open our own hospitals to practice medicine and admit patients. Turns out one of the people left back home during the war had a DO as a personal physician and decided to fill the gaps with DOs. OMM is rarely used these days and quite frankly, the constructs are outdated and we just don't have the time in the schedule so I don't really see how it helps me be more primary care oriented.

MDs spend more time at basic sciences than DOs, especially at biochemistry. What, did you guys suddenly get more days in your first two years of med school than us? The time you spend at OMM has to come from somewhere. --- Well, I don't know about you but I spent 2 years studying the basic sciences and at my school, we had a 96% pass rate of the USMLE -- which to my knowledge is the MD board exam so that means our basic sciences are at least the equivalent of yours, including the exposure to biochemistry. And our OMM time comes from spending 1 -2 afternoons from 1-5 in a large room with people half undressed when our MD colleagues are likely studying, at the gym or local watering hole. And to add to that, we didn't get the neat little packets of study materials that were handed out to UTSouthwestern students. To my understanding, if you knew what was in the packet, you could at least count on passing. No, my friend, we had to actually read and takes copious, detailed notes on Robbins and Cecil's, draw out on large butcher paper all the biochem pathways and their interactions, draw out nephrons and other such things during my education.

I can't speak for my colleagues, but I went to DO school because all I ever wanted to be was a solid, general practice physician treating womb to the tomb; To me, it's infinitely more challenging to have to be competent across that broad spectrum than to remain focused on one organ system or whatever ---

I think generally DO schools are deficient in histology and biochemistry preparations. At my school the people who have taken USMLE highly recommend spending time reviewing and learning many details that we did not cover in biochemistry and histology which is largely and entirely not covered. And yes, there's somewhat of an odd fascination in the DO world with reading Robbins excessively. Not that I don't enjoy the book, and its many many wordy repetitions, but it's time consuming and the time that could be saved in spoon-feeding me a packet of the information is indeed significant.

Some of my friends have managed to either locate entire summaries of Robbins from MD schools or use combinations of Baby Robbins, Pathoma, and First aid to cover up their deficiencies in actually reading Robbins. And being entirely frank I envy them because a wordy chapter of Robbins to read and outline can easily take 1 hour per 5 pages. That's an extremely poor use of time even if it is full of extremely valuable information.

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

What is a DO?

It's a modern MD with "magical" fingers and hands.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

FWIW the only time i recently used OMM outside of class was to treat one of my "tasty treats" complaints of migraine with some OA myofascial release.

Made some sweet, sweet lovin' after.

So... yeah... OMM has it perks.

Ya feelllzz me?

 

[QualityProcess]

FWIW the only time i recently used OMM outside of class was to treat one of my "tasty treats" complaints of migraine with some OA myofascial release.

Made some sweet, sweet lovin' after.

So... yeah... OMM has it perks.

Ya feelllzz me?

weird