How do you guys do it?

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5oProlene

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How do you guys manage an 80+ hour work week as a general surgical resident and a family life at the same time. I would love to do surgery but I question how me and my family (wife, 2 small kids) are going to get through it together. My wife works a 9-5 job.

Any pertinent advice on how to go about this so the family doesn't become strained??

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Heh, we don't have families; we just have boy toys! Just kidding (I think)...

Though I don't have a family, most of the men in my program are married and have kids. A few of us were actually having this discussion last night. Probably depends on several things:

1. How much is your wife willing to sacrifice? Many (though not all) of the wives of my fellow residents are stay-at-home moms.

2. How does the program do call (in-house versus home, how frequent)

3. IMO, a biggie would be if you had family in the area to help out. Especially her family- it would be support for both her and the kids while you are away, plus, you could potentially save a bundle on daycare.

4. Consider surgical subspecialties (ENT, urology) which have a better lifestyle.

5. Make the most of the time you do have off.

good luck
 
Boy toy? Hahaahaa-foxy

Well, most residents don't have a family. When I was applying to surgery residency, we were working 120 hrs/wk. Duke was telling their applicants the divore rate for their program is 120%. (that is 100% of all resident that came in married got divored, and 20% on those that got married during residency got divored). It has gotten better now with the reduced hour rule, but you still spend a lot of times working and studying.

I think for the male residents (most of us don't have boy-toys), we have playmates of the month. Kinda like hollywood- if you go out with her for more than 2 months, everybody in the program thinks you are getting marry.

I notied you have expressed interest in ped-CT... All Ct surgeons I know have a bad family life (all are divoree).

good luck
 
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most of the ct surges here are happily married. those who are not are just waiting until completing the fellowship. there was 1 who was married with a boytoy.
 
Originally posted by Herpeto
Should I just postpone the wedding until after residency to avoid any divorce costs I may incur if I am to marry now?

Wow, I hope your fiancee doesn't read SDN.
Eh, the sanctity of marriage..... :D
 
In my program about half are married, no divorces. It is NOT neccesarily true that surgery residency leads to divorce!!! Ask residents about divorce rate on interviews. It varies a lot from program to program - usually varying along with the happiness level of the residents. Duke is often cited as having a high divorce rate, and is also known as one of the still very malignant programs around - unhappy residents are unhappy at work AND at home. Ones who enjoy their job more probably tend to come home in a better mood and hence have more fun quality time in their precious free time.

I think kids would be a bit harder - I can see a spouse being more understanding than a child that you have a late case and don't come home till 8pm or later on a night you thought you'd make it home for dinner. Certainly there are people that manage having a family - usually men, of course, and it should be getting more managable with the 80 hour workweek.

It's all about having an a spouse or girlfriend/boyfriend who understands your unpredictable schedule and is okay with it. I agree that living in a place your wife has family or friends would help a lot in giving her a support system and something to do while you are not home. I'd see how it goes when you are on busy rotations in med school - if your wife or kids seem annoyed and upset when you work long hours, it's a sign maybe you can't make it work. Of course, residency is much tougher than med school, but I think it's a good general indicator about your family's tolerance level.

There are tons of posts about the hours, but here's a summary again for Herpeto, who asked: 80 hours total/week, one day per week avg over 4 weeks (so sometimes you won't have a day off, but the next week you may get both Sat and Sun off), you must go home by noon post-call (=24 hour call+6 hours max of post-call followup/transition care), call cannot average more than Q3 I think, so you are on call usually less than twice a week avg (call being the 24-30 hour shift). So there's much more time off than was before, but sometimes it seems like you just work harder when you are at work, so you're still tired. We often go home post call and sleep the whole afternoon away anyway, or we are expected to read and study when we're off, so I'm not sure if that translates to tons more family time. The days off are really enjoyable though, and seem to make a busy week seem much more humane.
 
The home by noon post-call rule only applies to in-house call. My program has skirted the issue by making trauma call the ONLY in house call. Of course, probably at least half of the nights I never even think of going home. Sometimes the chief will try to get us out early post-call, but sometimes the work has to get done . . .

Herpeto -- lighten up. Medicine is great, but it's not worth being alone and unhappy. I think you'll find it's great to have someone to come home to after a crappy day at the hospital . . .
 
Originally posted by Been there

I think for the male residents (most of us don't have boy-toys), we have playmates of the month. Kinda like hollywood- if you go out with her for more than 2 months, everybody in the program thinks you are getting marry.

This is actually true. Many here who are single have been known to party like rock stars, so when I see one of the guys with the same date say, more than once, it's pretty serious. ;)
 
Herpeto, take a valium dude!
 
I think what separates individuals is their energy level. With a crappy schedule like a surgeon's, its gonna take more energy than other physicians to make a marriage and a family work. That means giving up poker night with the boys, or catching football on the weekends. But, if this is important to you, then you will find ways to make it work, and there are people out there who are making it work all the time. Having an understanding spouse also helps, but if you aren't putting in the effort, then it'll only last so long.
 
Originally posted by Herpeto
If I do have children they shall be raised with a strict regiment of education and testing from a young age. I feel this will enable full development of their minds. I would be satisfied if they graduate college by 18. This isn't to say that I wouldn't school them first hand on the turmoil?s and wonders of life by taking them other first and third world countries for two months at a time. They also need play time outside of education.

Herp

Dude, tell me this is some sort of joke. You really need to ease up a bit, or you'll have a coronary by age 30. I know, you're all hard core about surgery right now . . . you'll be that damned hospital rat attending that all of the residents swear about.

You know what? Surgery is a job. It's a fun job where you can make a huge difference in someone's life, but if you let it become your life, you'll end up being a miserable human being. But hey, it's your life.

BTW, a "regiment" is a military unit composed of several battalions. A "regimen" is a systematic plan for an activity.
 
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