How does your school waste your time?

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The title pretty much says it all. Mostly just looking for posters to commiserate with so I don't feel so alone in all the BS my school puts me through. I'm sure quite a few of you have it way worse than I do, so let's hear it!

How does your school's policies/activities:
-Set you up to fail
-Detract from your education
-Just plain waste your time
 
-Make some of us drive 1-1.5 hrs each way to "get experience in clinic" aka shadow for 4 hrs 1 day per week, through january of 2nd year. Pretty great to use up 6-7 hours of prime afternoon study time for the bulk of 2nd year. I will say that some people had great experiences and their preceptor let them do a lot, but for many people like me, may have had a preceptor who didn't let them do much (i.e. private practice family medicine doc who was a super nice guy and tried to teach, but his clinic was so busy that allowing me to see patients and present to him would slow everything down too much)

-Make us write up bs "reflections" AND log all patients for the aforementioned shadowing, plus reflections on our clinical skills assessments

-Interprofessional education sessions where we basically just listen to the nursing, PT and pharm students talk because we are still preclinical and can't meaningfully contribute in any way to the scenario.

-They love to have "engaged learning/clinical cases" lectures, but the problem is sometimes they will have these lectures before the actual material is taught. It happens over and over. "Haven't had a lecture on diabetes yet? Okay here's an engaged learning on diabetic pharmacology."

-Make us rotate at 5-6 different hospitals, each with a different EMR and each with their own extremely lengthy onboarding process. Proceed to not get the certification process rolling until step 1 dedicated time comes around. Meaning that basically once a week we will have to go to campus for a couple hours. GREAT way to f%$k up the daily study schedule.

-Repeatedly make us go through the motions of performing a basic physical exam and test us on it, even though we have already learned and been assessed on it very thoroughly (great example of how different course directors and faculty don't communicate)

-during the middle of the year, decide that our clinical skills sessions will now be downtown instead of on campus, forcing us to drive an extra half hour or more during rush hour, and on top of that not have enough parking anywhere

there's probably a lot more but i'm too lazy to think about it all. every school has BS that will waste your time and we really just need to get over it, but it feels good to vent
 
Last edited:
FindMeOnTheLinks said:
-Make some of us drive 1-1.5 hrs each way to "get experience in clinic" aka shadow for 4 hrs 1 day per week, through january of 2nd year. Pretty great to use up 6-7 hours of prime afternoon study time for the bulk of 2nd year. I will say that some people had great experiences and their preceptor let them do a lot, but for many people like me, may have had a preceptor who didn't let them do much (i.e. private practice family medicine doc who was a super nice guy and tried to teach, but his clinic was so busy that allowing me to see patients and present to him would slow everything down too much)

-Make us write up bs "reflections" AND log all patients for the aforementioned shadowing, plus reflections on our clinical skills assessments

-Interprofessional education sessions where we basically just listen to the nursing, PT and pharm students talk because we are still preclinical and can't meaningfully contribute in any way to the scenario.

-Worthless lecturers who make **** powerpoints with very little usable information on the slides, and suck at explaining or have thick accents, forcing us to find an outside resource to learn the material.

-They love to have "engaged learning/clinical cases" lectures, but the problem is sometimes they will have these lectures before the actual material is taught. It happens over and over. "Haven't had a lecture on diabetes yet? Okay here's an engaged learning on diabetic pharmacology."

-Make us rotate at 5-6 different hospitals, each with a different EMR and each with their own extremely lengthy onboarding process. Proceed to not get the certification process rolling until step 1 dedicated time comes around. Meaning that basically once a week we will have to go to campus for a couple hours. GREAT way to f%$k up the daily study schedule.

-Repeatedly make us go through the motions of performing a basic physical exam and test us on it, even though we have already learned and been assessed on it very thoroughly (great example of how different course directors and faculty don't communicate)

-during the middle of the year, decide that our clinical skills sessions will now be downtown instead of on campus, forcing us to drive an extra half hour or more during rush hour, and on top of that not have enough parking anywhere

there's probably a lot more but i'm too lazy to think about it all. every school has BS that will waste your time and we really just need to get over it, but it feels good to vent
Click to expand...


This is a solid list. Bolded what's exactly the same at my school and added a few more things:

-Bragging about how our schools is one of the 6 nationally that wastes time cleaning up ascites and fat in first year anatomy.
-Stockpiles BS during the second semester of 2nd year.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The biggest problem I feel with my medical school, and many others I'm sure is how easy it is for administrators to introduce something to make the school look good, but how they can't enforce things, ensure enough staff are available to support students, and implement quality control measures. Like every year we have new ideas sprouting up and administration is like, oh we can have those people do this too...and then faculty members are overburdened and students aren't given ample support.
 
We just finished a geriatrics focus course, that was 18 hours wasted with nothing learned. We have senior mentors (old people in the community), that we visit twice per semester, predictably it takes a whole afternoon, then we do 1-2 hour reflection sessions on each visit. They give us lectures about stupid crap unrelated to boards or medicine. They also force us to do some interprofessional collaboration where we follow around nurses, physical therapists, pharmacy students, etc etc etc.
 
Meccamputechture said:
As someone who's entering medical school in the fall, threads like this make me worry (and wish that people were open about which school they went to!)
Click to expand...

Honestly there isn't much you can do. Most people don't get to choose or can only pick between 2 or 3. Very few people have 5-10 to choose from. And from most of my interviews and talking to students, it was pretty common for all of them to have their own BS.

Backtothebasics8 said:
The biggest problem I feel with my medical school, and many others I'm sure is how easy it is for administrators to introduce something to make the school look good, but how they can't enforce things, ensure enough staff are available to support students, and implement quality control measures. Like every year we have new ideas sprouting up and administration is like, oh we can have those people do this too...and then faculty members are overburdened and students aren't given ample support.
Click to expand...

You hit the nail directly on the head! All these things sound good on paper or in theory, but the actual implementation ends up being complete garbage.
 
FindMeOnTheLinks said:
-Make some of us drive 1-1.5 hrs each way to "get experience in clinic" aka shadow for 4 hrs 1 day per week, through january of 2nd year. Pretty great to use up 6-7 hours of prime afternoon study time for the bulk of 2nd year. I will say that some people had great experiences and their preceptor let them do a lot, but for many people like me, may have had a preceptor who didn't let them do much (i.e. private practice family medicine doc who was a super nice guy and tried to teach, but his clinic was so busy that allowing me to see patients and present to him would slow everything down too much)

-Make us write up bs "reflections" AND log all patients for the aforementioned shadowing, plus reflections on our clinical skills assessments

-Interprofessional education sessions where we basically just listen to the nursing, PT and pharm students talk because we are still preclinical and can't meaningfully contribute in any way to the scenario.

-Worthless lecturers who make **** powerpoints with very little usable information on the slides, and suck at explaining or have thick accents, forcing us to find an outside resource to learn the material.

-They love to have "engaged learning/clinical cases" lectures, but the problem is sometimes they will have these lectures before the actual material is taught. It happens over and over. "Haven't had a lecture on diabetes yet? Okay here's an engaged learning on diabetic pharmacology."

-Make us rotate at 5-6 different hospitals, each with a different EMR and each with their own extremely lengthy onboarding process. Proceed to not get the certification process rolling until step 1 dedicated time comes around. Meaning that basically once a week we will have to go to campus for a couple hours. GREAT way to f%$k up the daily study schedule.

-Repeatedly make us go through the motions of performing a basic physical exam and test us on it, even though we have already learned and been assessed on it very thoroughly (great example of how different course directors and faculty don't communicate)

-during the middle of the year, decide that our clinical skills sessions will now be downtown instead of on campus, forcing us to drive an extra half hour or more during rush hour, and on top of that not have enough parking anywhere

there's probably a lot more but i'm too lazy to think about it all. every school has BS that will waste your time and we really just need to get over it, but it feels good to vent
Click to expand...

Most of those are bs, but I wouldn't mind having the basics of the physical exam drilled into me multiple times. Personally my physical exam skills were neglected during medical school and are now weak going into intern year. Having a really crisp mental checklist for everything will serve you well. It's amazing the things that are constantly missed from careless h and ps
 
Dr. Death said:
We just finished a geriatrics focus course, that was 18 hours wasted with nothing learned. We have senior mentors (old people in the community), that we visit twice per semester, predictably it takes a whole afternoon, then we do 1-2 hour reflection sessions on each visit. They give us lectures about stupid crap unrelated to boards or medicine. They also force us to do some interprofessional collaboration where we follow around nurses, physical therapists, pharmacy students, etc etc etc.
Click to expand...

TBH I think that it's important to understand other people's roles in the hospital. You need to know that it takes time to run a medication or how annoying it is to boost your fatty patient 5 times a shift
 
Mine did a lot of the things already mentioned. It's mostly dumb, less intelligent people in the administration who have way more free time than we do scheduling random mandatory attendance things out of the blue, but I fortunately always avoid wasting time because I get my friend to swipe my card for me instead of actually going.

The violation of the mandatory attendance policies goes on at many, many medical schools and it's hilarious how many times I've done it.
 
🤔:wow::wow::wow::wow::wow::wow::wow:
Brorthopedic said:
One time we colored in class, in retrospect it would've been better if I wasn't colorblind
Click to expand...



:wow::wow::wow::wow::wow::wow::wow:
zero0 said:
Mandatory student government/club elections
Click to expand...


This. One way or another, we Faculty think of something that we honestly feel is a good idea and will teach you something important, but the students, being on the receiving end, see it quite differently. The only thing you can do its make a stink about it and burn the Dean's ears.

Reading this thread makes me want to paraphrase Leo Tolstoi:

All good medical schools spend their students time in the same way
All well-intentioned, but ******* medical schools waste their students time in unique ways!

My own school once scheduled a required class time event very, very close to a high stakes exam. I can still hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth!

You'll get through it. And to put things in perspective, just think about how much paperwork you'll be doing as residents and attendings!


Dr. Death said:
If it makes you feel any better all schools waste your time.
Click to expand...
 
Bancrofti said:
all of 4th year
Click to expand...

Really? As a third year I'm really looking at 4th year as a way to be able to function as an Intern. There's no way did I receive even close enough education to function as an intern.

By the time I was done with my H/P with my new patient my intern had already written her note, filled out discharge protocols, ordered all labs, done a med-Rec and contacted family. At this point I can't even get the full management for any condition, just the key points that are tested.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
FindMeOnTheLinks said:
-Make some of us drive 1-1.5 hrs each way to "get experience in clinic" aka shadow for 4 hrs 1 day per week, through january of 2nd year. Pretty great to use up 6-7 hours of prime afternoon study time for the bulk of 2nd year. I will say that some people had great experiences and their preceptor let them do a lot, but for many people like me, may have had a preceptor who didn't let them do much (i.e. private practice family medicine doc who was a super nice guy and tried to teach, but his clinic was so busy that allowing me to see patients and present to him would slow everything down too much)

-Make us write up bs "reflections" AND log all patients for the aforementioned shadowing, plus reflections on our clinical skills assessments

-Interprofessional education sessions where we basically just listen to the nursing, PT and pharm students talk because we are still preclinical and can't meaningfully contribute in any way to the scenario.

-Worthless lecturers who make **** powerpoints with very little usable information on the slides, and suck at explaining or have thick accents, forcing us to find an outside resource to learn the material.

-They love to have "engaged learning/clinical cases" lectures, but the problem is sometimes they will have these lectures before the actual material is taught. It happens over and over. "Haven't had a lecture on diabetes yet? Okay here's an engaged learning on diabetic pharmacology."

-Make us rotate at 5-6 different hospitals, each with a different EMR and each with their own extremely lengthy onboarding process. Proceed to not get the certification process rolling until step 1 dedicated time comes around. Meaning that basically once a week we will have to go to campus for a couple hours. GREAT way to f%$k up the daily study schedule.

-Repeatedly make us go through the motions of performing a basic physical exam and test us on it, even though we have already learned and been assessed on it very thoroughly (great example of how different course directors and faculty don't communicate)

-during the middle of the year, decide that our clinical skills sessions will now be downtown instead of on campus, forcing us to drive an extra half hour or more during rush hour, and on top of that not have enough parking anywhere

there's probably a lot more but i'm too lazy to think about it all. every school has BS that will waste your time and we really just need to get over it, but it feels good to vent
Click to expand...
Yeah those are toxic experiences. The LCME really needs to crack down on this wasteful garbage.

Writing "reflection" journals is a bunch of horse ****. These family medicine idiots who introduced that garbage into medical schools dont even realize how much they've made the average student hate family medicine.

Sent from my SM-N910P using SDN mobile
 
Dr. Death said:
We just finished a geriatrics focus course, that was 18 hours wasted with nothing learned. We have senior mentors (old people in the community), that we visit twice per semester, predictably it takes a whole afternoon, then we do 1-2 hour reflection sessions on each visit. They give us lectures about stupid crap unrelated to boards or medicine. They also force us to do some interprofessional collaboration where we follow around nurses, physical therapists, pharmacy students, etc etc etc.
Click to expand...
Yeah the admins who come up with that bull**** are almost always not even physicians, or if they are, they are usually academic non-clinical ones.

Sent from my SM-N910P using SDN mobile
 
cbrons said:
Yeah those are toxic experiences. The LCME really needs to crack down on this wasteful garbage.

Writing "reflection" journals is a bunch of horse ****. These family medicine idiots who introduced that garbage into medical schools dont even realize how much they've made the average student hate family medicine.

Sent from my SM-N910P using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

Sad, but true. All these attempts to glorify Family Medicine or Primary Care through forced interactions and essays make a good portion of students despise the fields (myself included). It sucks that students have a ton of misconceptions based on the BS schools put you through, when in reality family can be awesome in the right set up.

I'm sure I'd dislike almost any specialty if they traumatized us the same way they do with primary care. FM in an academic hospital vs true Family medicine clinic are two different worlds and it's a shame that administrators can't realize their policies are actively working against their goals.
 
Not sure about y'all, but I am very thankful that my school is incredibly receptive to change their curricula based on our needs. We just recently had major changes in our curriculum due to the opinions expressed by our class. I'm sure it is some combination of factors, but I feel like its our faculty's willingness to receive feedback combined with my class' willingness to express their opinion openly to the faculty in a civil way.
 
Backtothebasics8 said:
Really? As a third year I'm really looking at 4th year as a way to be able to function as an Intern. There's no way did I receive even close enough education to function as an intern.

By the time I was done with my H/P with my new patient my intern had already written her note, filled out discharge protocols, ordered all labs, done a med-Rec and contacted family. At this point I can't even get the full management for any condition, just the key points that are tested.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

Undoubtedly, your intern is better than you, but not a world ahead. Your intern's time saving comes down to having already managed a patient with almost the exact same presentation in the recent past and likely having a template set for their note. Likewise, often if there is a certain chief complaint, you can click a button in some EMRs and it orders all the basic labs for that complaint, i.e. chest pain.
 
Bancrofti said:
Undoubtedly, your intern is better than you, but not a world ahead. Your intern's time saving comes down to having already managed a patient with almost the exact same presentation in the recent past and likely having a template set for their note. Likewise, often if there is a certain chief complaint, you can click a button in some EMRs and it orders all the basic labs for that complaint, i.e. chest pain.
Click to expand...
Some interns are worlds ahead of med students. Some are actually more incompetent than the sub-I. There is an enormous variation in intern quality from what I have seen.

Sent from my SM-N910P using SDN mobile
 
FindMeOnTheLinks said:
-Make some of us drive 1-1.5 hrs each way to "get experience in clinic" aka shadow for 4 hrs 1 day per week, through january of 2nd year. Pretty great to use up 6-7 hours of prime afternoon study time for the bulk of 2nd year. I will say that some people had great experiences and their preceptor let them do a lot, but for many people like me, may have had a preceptor who didn't let them do much (i.e. private practice family medicine doc who was a super nice guy and tried to teach, but his clinic was so busy that allowing me to see patients and present to him would slow everything down too much)

-Make us write up bs "reflections" AND log all patients for the aforementioned shadowing, plus reflections on our clinical skills assessments

-Interprofessional education sessions where we basically just listen to the nursing, PT and pharm students talk because we are still preclinical and can't meaningfully contribute in any way to the scenario.

-Worthless lecturers who make **** powerpoints with very little usable information on the slides, and suck at explaining or have thick accents, forcing us to find an outside resource to learn the material.

-They love to have "engaged learning/clinical cases" lectures, but the problem is sometimes they will have these lectures before the actual material is taught. It happens over and over. "Haven't had a lecture on diabetes yet? Okay here's an engaged learning on diabetic pharmacology."

-Make us rotate at 5-6 different hospitals, each with a different EMR and each with their own extremely lengthy onboarding process. Proceed to not get the certification process rolling until step 1 dedicated time comes around. Meaning that basically once a week we will have to go to campus for a couple hours. GREAT way to f%$k up the daily study schedule.

-Repeatedly make us go through the motions of performing a basic physical exam and test us on it, even though we have already learned and been assessed on it very thoroughly (great example of how different course directors and faculty don't communicate)

-during the middle of the year, decide that our clinical skills sessions will now be downtown instead of on campus, forcing us to drive an extra half hour or more during rush hour, and on top of that not have enough parking anywhere

there's probably a lot more but i'm too lazy to think about it all. every school has BS that will waste your time and we really just need to get over it, but it feels good to vent
Click to expand...

I hate IPE to the bone. There have been occasions when I contemplate about skipping out on this POS. What's the worst case scenario? Surely, I won't be spending my summer remediating IPE.
 
cbrons said:
Some interns are worlds ahead of med students. Some are actually more incompetent than the sub-I. There is an enormous variation in intern quality from what I have seen.

Sent from my SM-N910P using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

Well I'm going to be a **** intern... have not done anything medicine for 3 months now and still have 3 more months of nothing to do... 4th year ftw

Intern quality will vary greatly depending on what time of year you see them.
 
Roxas said:
We played with water and corn starch for like 30 minutes in OMM lab once. I legitimately wondered what other age group of students was doing something similar (my guess was 1st grade)
Click to expand...

We practiced palpating coins through several sheets of paper. They wanted us to identify whether it was face up or down. Yeah.
 
Is time wasting associated with non traditional curriculum?
 
FindMeOnTheLinks said:
-Make some of us drive 1-1.5 hrs each way to "get experience in clinic" aka shadow for 4 hrs 1 day per week, through january of 2nd year. Pretty great to use up 6-7 hours of prime afternoon study time for the bulk of 2nd year. I will say that some people had great experiences and their preceptor let them do a lot, but for many people like me, may ......................t
Click to expand...


Hey you go to my school! I recognize all this!
 
Surveys and mandatory reflective assignments top my list and not just because of time wasted but because these exemplify a good idea going bad. Giving constructive feedback is a good thing but demanding feedback when I have other priorities and none to give makes me less willing to give it when it's indeed warranted and I have stuff to say. Writing an essay on the article chosen for me makes me less willing to write my own reflective piece later on.

I don't honestly have an issue with mandatory class, introductory, and even shadowing stuff (to reasonable extend of course). I was able to befriend a lot more people than I would have otherwise if I could just stay at home and study or spend all day in the OR.


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- Lectures on micro/pharm. Like okay you know I'm getting this ish from sketchy.
- Radiology lectures. 100 screen stills of an organ isn't teaching me anything but to memorize the white spots. Give me a youtube video or something non-static to learn on.
- All of anatomy lab was a waste of time. I vehemently disagreed with this prior to med school, but now I'm 100% pro-prosection.
- Anything interprofessionalism. Nothing boosts my appreciation for other professions like dealing with 18 year old nursing students who are more clueless than I am.
- Anything mandatory. I'm convinced that things become mandatory because they know it's such a waste of time that no one would show unless they were forced to.
 
Aonyx said:
Scheduling an "important" and required OMM workshop during the middle of 4th year interview season.

Or just OMM workshops anytime after the 2nd year final exam.
Click to expand...

I wish we had only one: We have one in the fall/one in the spring of 3rd year and a 12pt. OSCE. Then a 2 week one at the beginning of June before 4th year. And of course, they can't get us our student loan money until mid-August.
 
Let's see, we had a few things (mostly in first year of medical school) that were a complete waste of time.

- History of Military Medicine: mandatory lectures every so often. The lecturer literally read a script for an hour. He had a voice like something out of a History channel documentary, which was pretty funny. A couple of times during the class we had an "exam" where we had to come in and write an essay just like you were in a college lit class or something. My essays were the most incomprehensible pieces of garbage, but I still managed to pass.

- We had a seminar and small group discussion class that focused on our feelings/biases and our patients feelings. This class also required essays.

- Summer field exercises that basically boiled down to camping in the woods without showers. The first time, ok fine. The third time? Hard pass.
 
Affiche said:
- Lectures on micro/pharm. Like okay you know I'm getting this ish from sketchy.
- Radiology lectures. 100 screen stills of an organ isn't teaching me anything but to memorize the white spots. Give me a youtube video or something non-static to learn on.
- All of anatomy lab was a waste of time. I vehemently disagreed with this prior to med school, but now I'm 100% pro-prosection.
- Anything interprofessionalism. Nothing boosts my appreciation for other professions like dealing with 18 year old nursing students who are more clueless than I am.
- Anything mandatory. I'm convinced that things become mandatory because they know it's such a waste of time that no one would show unless they were forced to.
Click to expand...

I agree.
Micro is utterly useless half the time. Sketchy will always teach it better than you and more efficiently.
Radiology literally has very little to provide. I did learn the basics, but a lot of it was just entirely forgotten.
Anatomy lab was an enormous time sink. I'm not interested in surgery so cutting through a cadaver for hours and then having to come in and spend my time learning the structures after is exhausting.
 
ConfusedChemist said:
In my experience, yes. Very much yes.

There might have been some wasting of time before, but adding in 10 hours a week of mandatory team-learning made it so much worse
Click to expand...
So if people have the option between traditional and non traditional curricula all other things being equal should they opt for the traditional?
 
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