How far into your undergraduate education did you know that you wanted to go to graduate school (PhD)?

[princesspeach2]

A question for everyone:
How far into your undergraduate degree did you know that you wanted to pursue a PhD (particularly clinical or counseling psychology)? I've read that people should only apply for psychology PhD programs if they have a burning research question they want answered (and research interests match with the individual professors at a school) essentially, is that still true? What experiences did you have that made you decide on PhD over a different path? (I'm currently trying to decide between pursuing veterinary medicine or psych graduate school).

Thank you for your comments!

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[Fan_of_Meehl]

Things have changed quite a bit since I decided in undergrad (in the 1990s) to go into clinical psychology. That being said, I knew I had a passion for the subject matter and the field in undergrad and loved it even more when I got into the more advanced stuff in grad school. One piece of advice: don't even think about going into clinical psychology if you don't absolutely love the subject matter and intrinsically enjoy learning about it. Otherwise, you're going to be haunted by the fact that you devoted your intellect, your skills, your work ethic and your life to a profession that pays probably 1/2 (or less) of what you could have achieved in terms of status/money/power in pursuit of an alternative profession. Also note that these things are hard to predict at the time point that you're likely making the decision (in your early 20's?). By the time that you've made it through grad school and early career and are deep into the point of no return (your 50's?), three decades have passed. I was initially a biology/ pre-med major but realized about 1/2 way through undergrad I just loved psychology much more (even though I was acing the pre-med coursework). Seeing what has become of medicine these days, I don't regret it at all. On the other hand, if medicine were still the landscape it was for physicians in the 80s/90s, I might regret not going into medicine. You can never tell. You can't predict the future of a profession 30 years down the road. One thing you can know is whether or not you intrinsically love the subject matter of a profession to at least be 'okay' even if you're making a 'so-so' living from it (in terms of money).

 

[ClinicalABA]

I don't remember ever considering it. I was first generation college my family, with no model for graduate school. I thought that only rich people went to grad school. About 4-5 years after graduation I worked at a facility with a practicum stude t from the local Ph.D. clinical program (which was at my undergrad university). She encouraged me to apply and rest is history.

 

[WisNeuro]

I knew since about late freshman/early sophomore years. Which was helpful, as I was able to get into multiple labs starting my junior year to get that experience.

 

[summerbabe]

I took my single required intro to psych class as an undergrad which I didn't enjoy and ended up in a MS program for counseling 5 years after graduating based on life and work experiences. And then I entered my PhD straight from the MS.

For people who know early on, you get the benefits of taking advantage of undergrad resources like volunteering in labs, which can be helpful in introducing you to this field, the work that goes into this path and access to potential mentoring.

I've read that people should only apply for psychology PhD programs if they have a burning research question they want answered (and research interests match with the individual professors at a school) essentially, is that still true?

Yes if the goal is to become a professor or academic researcher. For me, research was always a means to the end of practicing as a clinical psychologist. Since graduating, I haven't been involved in any substantial research and I'm happy to keep it that way.

However, I still had a focused area of research during grad school and worked on multiple projects, went to conferences, tried to publish, etc so having a focus and finding a fit is very key since most programs operate on a 1:1 mentorship/lab model.

There are obviously differences in content between veterinary med and psychology but giving some solid consideration to how you'd want a future workday to be like might be helpful.

I have a telehealth psychology job. I can literally sit in the same chair all day and just wait for people to show up for their video apts so it's gonna be a pretty different set of daily experiences, stimuli, interaction, pace and stressors compared to working in a vet office. Good luck!

 

[childpsych2022]

A question for everyone:
How far into your undergraduate degree did you know that you wanted to pursue a PhD (particularly clinical or counseling psychology)? I've read that people should only apply for psychology PhD programs if they have a burning research question they want answered (and research interests match with the individual professors at a school) essentially, is that still true? What experiences did you have that made you decide on PhD over a different path? (I'm currently trying to decide between pursuing veterinary medicine or psych graduate school).

Thank you for your comments!

I knew the summer before my sophomore year, so I was able to accrue 3+ years of research experience before applying to graduate school (PhD in clinical psych) my senior year. I absolutely loved (and continue to love) the integration of research and practice that the degree emphasizes.

I do think that research interests and a research match are essential not only for pursuing a PhD in Clinical Psych, but also for getting into a program. Research is really what separates this degree from so many other degrees that allow you to practice therapy (e.g., MSW, Masters in Counseling, PsyDs, etc.), so individuals who are not passionate about this aspect are often a better fit for a different path. I'm sure there are some exceptions to this rule, but this is how I generally see it.

 

[WisNeuro]

I disagree that one should avoid a PhD unless they are "passionate" about research. Knowing how to conduct and evaluate research is crucial in being able to apply that research to clinical practice. Also, many PhD programs allow students to put most of their focus on clinical work, while doing the minimum to complete a thesis and dissertation. De-emphasizing research is one of the reasons we see such poor assessment skills in graduating students and the ever increasing adoption of pseudoscience "treatments."

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

I disagree that one should avoid a PhD unless they are "passionate" about research. Knowing how to conduct and evaluate research is crucial in being able to apply that research to clinical practice. Also, many PhD programs allow students to put most of their focus on clinical work, while doing the minimum to complete a thesis and dissertation. De-emphasizing research is one of the reasons we see such poor assessment skills in graduating students and the ever increasing adoption of pseudoscience "treatments."

Agreed. A focus on research, critical thinking, case formulation, hypothesis testing/revision and logical empiricism (applied philosophy of science) is what is most distinctive--in my opinion--about being a practicing clinical psychologist vs. being any other type of mental health professional in practice.The Ph.D. in clinical psychology is very much an applied Ph.D. and is--in no way--inferior to the Psy.D. in preparing you for clinical practice.

 

[hhhzzzaaa]

Never. I didn't find this career until 4ish years post undergrad. Started my PhD at 28 with some research experience from my job at an academic medical center under my belt.

 

[Sanman]

Started out as a pre-med bio major. Hated most of the courses offered by the major and was not having a good time (love human bio, less interested in the plant heavy course offerings at my university). Took intro psych as a gen ed requirement my sophomore year and really enjoyed it. Ended up hitting it off with the intro professor and was in his lab by the end off Sophomore year. Shifted my focus and the rest is history. Probably would not be here if I was in college today.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

Started out as a pre-med bio major. Hated most of the courses offered by the major and was not having a good time (love human bio, less interested in the plant heavy course offerings at my university). Took intro psych as a gen ed requirement my sophomore year and really enjoyed it. Ended up hitting it off with the intro professor and was in his lab by the end off Sophomore year. Shifted my focus and the rest is history. Probably would not be here if I was in college today.

One of the worst things about being initially a Bio major (which later turned into a minor) was that in order to graduate at the end I HAD to complete a 400-level course and at that time the only 400-level course being offered that semester was...parasitology! Never been so grossed out in my life.

 

[PsyDr]

Focus on what you want to do, on a day to day basis.

The day to day life of a research psychologist is mostly sitting in front of a computer screen. It's not the actual experiments.

 

[Sanman]

Focus on what you want to do, on a day to day basis.

The day to day life of a research psychologist is mostly sitting in front of a computer screen. It's not the actual experiments.

Unless your name is Zimbardo

 

[Sanman]

One of the worst things about being initially a Bio major (which later turned into a minor) was that in order to graduate at the end I HAD to complete a 400-level course and at that time the only 400-level course being offered that semester was...parasitology! Never been so grossed out in my life.

The neuroscience and psychology majors at my school allowed for a number of elective science courses from biology, so luckily it was a smooth transition for me. I was more inclined to the neuroscience end of things than the soft psychology stuff. Though, I had a crash course in parasitology and bacterial infections long before college, hazards of being raised by a microbiologist.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I think I made the decision during my Junior year, although I'd been broadly interested in mental health prior to then.

 

[Ollie123]

Truthfully, I stumbled into this career. Arrived at college deadset on corporate law. Triple-majored in accounting, finance and computer science. Foolishly decided computer science wasn't for me after two semesters (in hindsight, I was awesome at it and the field has morphed into something I'd find more palatable than it appeared then) so switched the third major to Management Information Systems. Developed an interest in labor relation law and swapped out accounting for HR. Dropped finance somewhere in there. Got bored with MIS too and picked up psychology essentially for the hell of it. Took abnormal psych the same time I was taking corporate finance. Loved the former and hated the latter. Realized I wasn't motivated by money and could either make a decent living as a psychologist doing good for the world or a better living as a corporate lawyer essentially doing evil for the world. Merrill Lynch was trying hard to sell me on a summer internship on wall street after my junior year. Turned it down to volunteer in a psych lab. Was still too indecisive, disorganized and generally a hot mess of an early 20's to really take advantage of it and probably shouldn't have gotten into grad school, but somehow got into a great lab in a clinical science program.

Now a hot mess of a late 30's with a clinical license, a faculty appt, around 3.5 million dollars in grant funding and still way too indecisive about what I want to do with my career for where I am (albeit in a slightly narrower way).

 

[PsychPhDone]

I realized sometime junior year I think? Maybe maybe late sophomore? I wasn't considering anything in research but my advisor told me to try it out and that was that.

 

[Sanman]

Truthfully, I stumbled into this career. Arrived at college deadset on corporate law. Triple-majored in accounting, finance and computer science. Foolishly decided computer science wasn't for me after two semesters (in hindsight, I was awesome at it and the field has morphed into something I'd find more palatable than it appeared then) so switched the third major to Management Information Systems. Developed an interest in labor relation law and swapped out accounting for HR. Dropped finance somewhere in there. Got bored with MIS too and picked up psychology essentially for the hell of it. Took abnormal psych the same time I was taking corporate finance. Loved the former and hated the latter. Realized I wasn't motivated by money and could either make a decent living as a psychologist doing good for the world or a better living as a corporate lawyer essentially doing evil for the world. Merrill Lynch was trying hard to sell me on a summer internship on wall street after my junior year. Turned it down to volunteer in a psych lab. Was still too indecisive, disorganized and generally a hot mess of an early 20's to really take advantage of it and probably shouldn't have gotten into grad school, but somehow got into a great lab in a clinical science program.

Now a hot mess of a late 30's with a clinical license, a faculty appt, around 3.5 million dollars in grant funding and still way too indecisive about what I want to do with my career for where I am (albeit in a slightly narrower way).

You could scrap your current career and get a job running HR at the Dept of Veterans Affairs. If you clean that up I can assure you all the good karma points ever. Please?!?

 

[Ollie123]

"New VA Director of Human Resources begins by firing literally every VA HR employee across the nation, including over 5,000 military veterans, and says they are starting over" is probably not the headline they want.

As fun as that sounds, my debates these days are more the balance of neuoimaging to clinical trials research in my portfolio and figuring out how to carve out time to better keep up on the literature and statistics. Working on a conference presentation and had to start googling to remind myself enough about random slope models to diagnose why including a random slope is obliterating my effect and figure out if it actually does need to be there when most people just run random intercept models. Graduate school me would be ashamed.

 

[Dazen]

I’m another who didn’t realize they wanted to get a PhD in psychology until after college. I fortunately realized early on that I was passionate about research, so I had four years of working in academic labs in undergrad. I was also an engineering major (ended up being mostly applied math/light computer science) and worked in finance after graduation, so I made more of a switch than most to get here. I don’t think there’s any time you absolutely have to know by, but it can be more difficult to get experience after undergrad if you’re trying to transition later in life.

I agree with others that, while you do need a well-articulated research interest to get into grad school, research doesn’t have to be the end all be all of your career goals. It’s also fine to change your research interests as you go through grad school (although obviously much easier if you can stay in your original lab or the program has resources to support your new interest). I’d argue that your interests should change as you get broader exposure and develop a more nuanced understanding of the field. For example, I’m interested in predictors of and protective factors for adolescent externalizing factors, but through that have also become more interested in risk perception and risk tolerance. I’m also very passionate about quantitative methods, agnostic of the content they’re applied to, and am even leading a push to get my lab to acquire VR! Direction is good, and necessary at some point if you want an academic job long term, but passion for the practice of research itself can also carry you far.

 

[msc545]

In my second year of college. Bad mistake.

 

[Mojito_15]

In my second year of college. Bad mistake.

I knew I wanted a Ph.D. in high school- had a lot fewer concerns about what it was in and did not really envision after getting the Ph.D. About 6 years into the Ph.D. program I figured out that probably wasn't the best way to approach grad school- but it was too late- so here I am with one, and I'm a licensed psych, and having a midlife crisis about what to do next....

 

[princesspeach2]

Focus on what you want to do, on a day to day basis.

The day to day life of a research psychologist is mostly sitting in front of a computer screen. It's not the actual experiments.

I've been thinking about this a lot since I read your post. I really don't like sitting in front of a computer screen for long periods of time (I have discovered this fact by working as a receptionist). I am much happier being able to move around, even crawl, kneel on the ground, etc. I've been reading and watching videos on day to day life for psychologists (mostly clinical) and comparing that to day to day life of veterinarians. After a great deal of thought for several days now, I would much rather do the daily activities of a vet compared to someone that focuses on people directly. I think a lot of my trepidation comes from the fact that studying psychology is easier for me than math, biology, chemistry, but I have managed to get A's throughout my undergraduate career so far.

 

[princesspeach2]

Things have changed quite a bit since I decided in undergrad (in the 1990s) to go into clinical psychology. That being said, I knew I had a passion for the subject matter and the field in undergrad and loved it even more when I got into the more advanced stuff in grad school. One piece of advice: don't even think about going into clinical psychology if you don't absolutely love the subject matter and intrinsically enjoy learning about it. Otherwise, you're going to be haunted by the fact that you devoted your intellect, your skills, your work ethic and your life to a profession that pays probably 1/2 (or less) of what you could have achieved in terms of status/money/power in pursuit of an alternative profession. Also note that these things are hard to predict at the time point that you're likely making the decision (in your early 20's?). By the time that you've made it through grad school and early career and are deep into the point of no return (your 50's?), three decades have passed. I was initially a biology/ pre-med major but realized about 1/2 way through undergrad I just loved psychology much more (even though I was acing the pre-med coursework). Seeing what has become of medicine these days, I don't regret it at all. On the other hand, if medicine were still the landscape it was for physicians in the 80s/90s, I might regret not going into medicine. You can never tell. You can't predict the future of a profession 30 years down the road. One thing you can know is whether or not you intrinsically love the subject matter of a profession to at least be 'okay' even if you're making a 'so-so' living from it (in terms of money).

Thank you for this comment! I am early 30's now. I am like you in that I really love my psychology courses, but I am still acing all my pre-vet (same as pre-med for the most part) courses despite not liking them as much. I've been thinking about this comment a lot too. While the debt for vet school is truly awful, if I were to be able to get into my in-state or a lower cost school, then move to a high cost of living state after (which we have been wanting to move back to), I have seen starting salary for new grad job posts 100k+. Human body fluids disgust me, so couldn't ever work with sick people. After a lot of thought, while I definitely don't intrinsically enjoy learning chemistry, I do really enjoy learning about medicine and the care of animals.

 

[princesspeach2]

I took my single required intro to psych class as an undergrad which I didn't enjoy and ended up in a MS program for counseling 5 years after graduating based on life and work experiences. And then I entered my PhD straight from the MS.

For people who know early on, you get the benefits of taking advantage of undergrad resources like volunteering in labs, which can be helpful in introducing you to this field, the work that goes into this path and access to potential mentoring.

Yes if the goal is to become a professor or academic researcher. For me, research was always a means to the end of practicing as a clinical psychologist. Since graduating, I haven't been involved in any substantial research and I'm happy to keep it that way.

However, I still had a focused area of research during grad school and worked on multiple projects, went to conferences, tried to publish, etc so having a focus and finding a fit is very key since most programs operate on a 1:1 mentorship/lab model.

There are obviously differences in content between veterinary med and psychology but giving some solid consideration to how you'd want a future workday to be like might be helpful.

I have a telehealth psychology job. I can literally sit in the same chair all day and just wait for people to show up for their video apts so it's gonna be a pretty different set of daily experiences, stimuli, interaction, pace and stressors compared to working in a vet office. Good luck!

Thank you for your comment! I don't think I would want be an academic researcher either. That is really interesting to me that you didn't enjoy your intro to psych class, but ended up in an MS counseling program. I appreciate you explaining your day to day life as a telehealth psychologist. I have been thinking about it more, and I really despise sitting all day (probably because my ADHD) and I think face to face with people all day would be draining for me after more thought (face to face with clients discussing their pets, then with other staff members is fine though. I did that all the time as a vet assistant with no issues).

My career therapist I was working with has more or less said that he thinks being a marriage counselor, career therapist, or some other form of therapist/counselor would be a good fit for me. For awhile, I agreed, but as I have been doing more introspection, I am realizing it would be a poor fit. I like the idea of working with kids doing psychological assessments (spoke with a psychologist that did just that), but that is probably because I love problem solving and diagnosing, which is far more prevalent in veterinary medicine I feel since all sick patient visits require those.

Thank you again for your feedback!

 

[princesspeach2]

One of the worst things about being initially a Bio major (which later turned into a minor) was that in order to graduate at the end I HAD to complete a 400-level course and at that time the only 400-level course being offered that semester was...parasitology! Never been so grossed out in my life

Oh gosh, that's awful! Of course there wasn't endocrinology or something else. I wonder how many people were forced into that class like you were?

Unless your name is Zimbardo

I did my project on him last semester! Learned a lot of really interesting stuff!