how gunnerish is this

[nope80]

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So this is my first experience ever like this but I kinda feel like my classmates behavior is odd/different/overly competitive/gunnerish and wanted to see if others agree. Again, nobody I have ever worked with has acted like this and am wondering if others have had the opportunity to work w classmates like this.

My fellow med student is all over specifically my patients during rounds, practically breathing over the attendings shoulder just to have a chance to be the next one to listen to the patients lungs or heart (all totally normal findings btw), answering questions about my patients to the attending, pulling up my patients labs during rounds to the attending, contradicting elements of my assessment or plan during rounds in a subtle way by making comments like oh i think "xyz" which was totally opposite of what I thought...

I don't know, maybe this is me being my relatively passive self but is this obnoxious??? It's almost funny but then it gets annoying after a while

 

[kdburton]

Yeah I actually had a girl like this on my team during peds. Luckily she sounded like a total ri-**** 50% of the time so overall she wasn't impressing people. However there were a couple precious moments when a question was asked about one of my patients and before I could answer she would like jump in the middle and blurt out the answer and get praised for it. I actually ended up talking about it with her at one point because it was clearly taking away from my ability to shine and to be honest it was making her look bad because she was constantly throwing people under the bus (the residents even commented on this in front of me at one point...). So it may be worth it to pull your classmate aside one day and politely ask them to focus on their patients and let you focus on your patients - this is something that can probably only be worked out between the two if you.

 

[nope80]

yeah i don't care that much, actually it hasn't gotten bad enough for me to say anything. mostly i think it is half funny/half annoying depending on the time of day🙂 but this classmate does it really cleverly and gets away with it not like the example you mentioned above. its amazing to extent to which people will go to and how nervous med students can be on the wards. if i were an attending i would ding the crap out of people like this. i mean common...

 

[jdh71]

Wait until someone does it to you in residency . . . 😡

Yes, it's not normal. Yes, it's gunnerish. These people are asshats and you will continue to run into them. I wouldn't worry about it too much though. Attendings see through that kind of behavior for the most part.

 

[NAGNAM]

The solution here, clearly, is to study up and crush her at her own game. Memorize her patient's labs, know all the work-ups for their diseases, as well as your own patients. Blurt out answers whenever you can.

Then perfect the devious grin and soul-crush. Eff that stupid woman. Christ I really hate med students sometimes.

 

[nope80]

So you know how we usually check in on our patients in the middle of the day after rounds, go back to see them, or do any tests etc before checking back with the residents. Well my colleague followed me when I went to see my patient, and just walked right in with me and watched while I did my physical exam. On my patient. Are you serious. In all fairness, I was asked if it would be okay to come along and of course I said yes but seriously. common...people are so crazy.
I think I will try to get involved with her patients too even though I am totally not that type of person.
I think attendings see it sometimes but if they are good at their game, it can go overlooked.

 

[TopsyKrett]

So you know how we usually check in on our patients in the middle of the day after rounds, go back to see them, or do any tests etc before checking back with the residents. Well my colleague followed me when I went to see my patient, and just walked right in with me and watched while I did my physical exam. On my patient. Are you serious. In all fairness, I was asked if it would be okay to come along and of course I said yes but seriously. common...people are so crazy.
I think I will try to get involved with her patients too even though I am totally not that type of person.
I think attendings see it sometimes but if they are good at their game, it can go overlooked.

Is this person doing this to any of the other students or just you?

 

[nope80]

its just the two of us on the team, why?

 

[Winged Scapula]

1. yes, its classic gunner behavior
2. almost all of us had have experience with such a classmate
3. residents and attendings see through it
4. you could say something but expect it to fall on deaf ears

 

[NAGNAM]

its just the two of us on the team, why?

If there were more people on the team and it was just you, it would mean she's probably tryin to hit it.

 

[dnslay]

Why can't you privately just tell her to eff off?

 

[netminder]

. . . These people are asshats . . .

This is freaking hysterical.

 

[Rzarecta]

Agree with the others, this is gunner behavior. If I were in your position I would: a) know/learn everything about my patients, and b) talk to her. Even though residents and attendings can generally see through this kind of behavior, the really good gunners are harder to spot. At worst case she can make it look like you are uninterested/unread on your patients. I know more than a few people in my own class who received excellent grades by throwing the other students on their team under the bus. Sucks, but douchebaggery is rampant in med school.

 

[GuzzyRon]

1. yes, its classic gunner behavior
2. almost all of us had have experience with such a classmate
3. residents and attendings see through it
4. you could say something but expect it to fall on deaf ears

Agreed with first 3 but I think the OP should still pull the gunner aside and politely ask him/her to focus on his/her patients while the OP focuses on his/hers. That may be all that's needed to straighten out the situation but if it doesn't, then the OP can employ some more drastic measures.

 

[dnslay]

This person is all up in your patients, and there's no reason he or she should feel comfortable about doing that by any measure without having had a respectful disscussion with you first. This person bypassed that option.

Forget polite, I think your private discussion should leave your "colleague" wondering where they're gonna get shivved.

If this just exacerbates their performance, so be it! As WS mentioned, attending's and residents will notice (even more so) and possibly get more annoyed.

 

[goooooober]

I think instead of thinking of ways to address this person, conserve your energy for your patients. Often in medicine, people compare themselves to others, try to compete, and are very desparate to stand out and get attention.

However, consistently, the people that stand out are not the ones that are moving their lips. They are the ones that not only know everything about their patients, but know and think about what to do for their patients and how to get them better. In other words, they are focused on their patients and on themselves as physicians and how they are developing and caring for their patients.

While I acknowledge that gunners can be pure douchenators, if they want to blurt out some fact that is already on the computer (and everyone knows), so what, let them. If they are that big of a douche, you will not change them by talking to them or engaging in some silly game of who can memorize more facts and blurt it out about eachothers patients.

How you can defend against such individuals is having a well thought out plan for your patients every single day. Then when they challenge your plan, you can in a professional tone explain your thinking process and why you came up with your plan. That is what will earn you respect and a good grade.

 

[basupran]

We had a med student who did the same. He would come in early and round on all the patients on the service (ie check up on pts, jot down all labs, events, etc..). He would then correct med students during rounds - umm, actually the potassium was 3.2, not 3.1. He managed to piss off the attendings and got a pass in Internal Medicine despite an awesome shelf. He did manage to get into a top 5 program for IM though (impressed everyone during an away).

 

[juiceman311]

Attendings and residents see through this crap. I was told specifically by my resident on surgery at the end that he appreciated that despite my interest in surgery I was not obnoxious and didn't bring in a journal article every day for rounds and I didn't ask pointless questions just to hear my own voice.

 

[cartoondoc]

That is like total stereotypical gunner behavior. But unfortunately, I've never heard any really effective tips for dealing with gunners, aside from trashing them with your classmates.

 

[reedman]

i think you should kill her with kindness. next time she interrupts you, make sure to thank her for her help (in front of everyone). you should even pull her aside and thank her for jumping in because you probably would have made a fool of yourself. and then when you get asked about something, be sure to look over at her and pause a few seconds to give her a chance to answer.

try it, it works.