how i felt

[surgeryrulez]

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so i just matched into anesthesiology... yay! was seeing a patient in clinic today during one of my last rotations of medical school... the patient asked me about what im going into and i said answer said anesthesiology. the patient responded by saying, "u need to go for 4 years of medical school for that?? my daughter is finishing nursing degree in community college and planning to become an anesthesiologist in 2 more years. " how would you respond? made me pretty mad.

 

[fakin' the funk]

so i just matched into anesthesiology... yay! was seeing a patient in clinic today during one of my last rotations of medical school... the patient asked me about what im going into and i said answer said anesthesiology. the patient responded by saying, "u need to go for 4 years of medical school for that?? my daughter is finishing nursing degree in community college and planning to become an anesthesiologist in 2 more years. " how would you respond? made me pretty mad.

Well, you could calmly educate your patient...

or you could tell him/her, "Best of luck to your daughter when she's looking for work in MD-only practices."

 

[Consigliere]

Well, you could calmly educate your patient...

or you could tell him/her, "Best of luck to your daughter when she's looking for work in MD-only practices."[/QUOTE]

By 2020 (I think even sooner) those won't exist.

 

[x10694]

a simple "oh we take care of sicker patients..." would suffice

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

sniffs like a troll to me.

 

[cchoukal]

You could have told your patient that their daughter was not, in fact, going to become an anesthesiologist in 2 years after a community college degree (are there CC's that offer 4-year degrees?), but rather that after a BS-level nursing degree, some on-the-job experience, and the equivalent of a master's degree in anesthesia nursing, she could be come a nurse anesthetist who predominantly works under the medical direction of a physician. You then could add that to become an physician anesthesiologist requires four years of college, four years of medical school, and four years of intense clinical residency training, now often followed by an additional year of focused subspecialty training.

This wouldn't have to be an antagonistic discussion with your patient, because what I have suggested you tell her reflects the actual, factual difference in the quantity of training required to achieve the various degrees of achievement in the field of anesthesia.

 

[foxtrot]

so i just matched into anesthesiology... yay! was seeing a patient in clinic today during one of my last rotations of medical school... the patient asked me about what im going into and i said answer said anesthesiology. the patient responded by saying, "u need to go for 4 years of medical school for that?? my daughter is finishing nursing degree in community college and planning to become an anesthesiologist in 2 more years. " how would you respond? made me pretty mad.

Or you could just say, "no you don't need four years of med school, I did it in 3 taking online courses."

 

[Bertelman]

Don't say anything at all. It really doesn't matter what she thinks about you and your choice. When it comes to your decision vs. her daughter's, guess who will win every time.

You have nothing to gain from this conversation.

 

[Idiopathic]

if you cant handle regular people not knowing the difference between you and a nurse anesthetist, probably shouldnt even start internship. not that you wont try to educate patients along the way, but dont expect to be successful on a global scale.

 

[stationroad]

I would have hauled off and punched him square in the mouth hard

 

[BLADEMDA]

I would have hauled off and punched him square in the mouth hard

I just ignore the whole conversation. Why bother responding at all?

 

[pgg]

Some specialties make posters.

The radiology department in one hospital where I work has posters advising patients to ask to make sure a radiologist is reading their films, not just an ordinary doctor.

Imagine the stir if the ASA started distributing posters advising patients to ask to make sure an anesthesiologist was directing or supervising their anesthesia, not just a nurse.

 

[surgeryrulez]

thats a really cool idea pgg... ive seen that poster too. it just makes u feel kind of lame for your hard efforts to think someone got an online degree or did half the time commitment is getting the same recognition as u

 

[bigdan]

Some specialties make posters.

The radiology department in one hospital where I work has posters advising patients to ask to make sure a radiologist is reading their films, not just an ordinary doctor.

Imagine the stir if the ASA started distributing posters advising patients to ask to make sure an anesthesiologist was directing or supervising their anesthesia, not just a nurse.

I've been saying this to folks for YEARS. I'm sure it's in some of my old posts, from a long time ago. We need a widespread, classy ad campaign to at least put the thought into the heads of the general population. USA Today, NY Times. Not some CRNA v Anesthesiologist fire fight, but rather a promotion of our background/education.

I got flamed for the suggestion, if I recall.

 

[pgg]

thats a really cool idea pgg... ive seen that poster too. it just makes u feel kind of lame for your hard efforts to think someone got an online degree or did half the time commitment is getting the same recognition as u

Don't let it hurt your feelings. Laypeople don't know what good medical care is, even when it's explained in excruciating detail. Good care to the public is getting an appointment in less than a week, or new magazines in the waiting room. They have no idea if their kid's asthma is being treated appropriately, if they got the right antibiotic, or if the person doing the anesthesia for their sitting shoulder can remember the ACLS protocols without the cue cards, or is going to let their MAPs ride at 50 ...

Donate to ASAPAC and the PAC of your state society. The best any of us can do is support that fight in the political and PR arena.

 

[vector2]

Good care to the public is getting an appointment in less than a week, or new magazines in the waiting room.

So true....

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/08/h...affect-hospitals-medicare-reimbursements.html

“People in New York have very high expectations about what it means to be taken care of,” said Dr. Katherine Hochman, an NYU physician. “When they don’t get their food on time and have to spend eight hours in the emergency department, well, that’s just not their image of what a world-class institution is.”

 

[medstudent87]

I've been saying this to folks for YEARS. I'm sure it's in some of my old posts, from a long time ago. We need a widespread, classy ad campaign to at least put the thought into the heads of the general population. USA Today, NY Times. Not some CRNA v Anesthesiologist fire fight, but rather a promotion of our background/education.

I got flamed for the suggestion, if I recall.

SERIOUSLY! WHY DON'T WE DO THIS! HOW CAN I HELP MAKE THIS HAPPEN??

I remember last year, while I was rotating at some random community hospital, there were posters put up EVERYWHERE saying "Celebrate CRNA week! CRNAs take care of you during all sorts of surgeries, keep you safe, etc. etc."

MADE ME SO ANGRY.

I think educating the public about the differences between our education would help out our cause IMMENSELY.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Some specialties make posters.

The radiology department in one hospital where I work has posters advising patients to ask to make sure a radiologist is reading their films, not just an ordinary doctor.

Imagine the stir if the ASA started distributing posters advising patients to ask to make sure an anesthesiologist was directing or supervising their anesthesia, not just a nurse.

As husband to a radiologist, I can tell you that they need it. My wife gets asked all the time if she's the one "taking the X-rays" and told that their nephew/niece/cousin is going to be a radiologist too after they finish their 12-month rad tech program at the CC.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

As husband to a radiologist, I can tell you that they need it. My wife gets asked all the time if she's the one "taking the X-rays" and told that their nephew/niece/cousin is going to be a radiologist too after they finish their 12-month rad tech program at the CC.

fail to see how this differs significantly from the op's encounter.

 

[yappy]

You guys need to do this.

I've noticied that there are key people in each family/domestic unit that are health care savvy. If you can reach these people it will change the opinion of most other people in their domestic unit and extended family.

I'm prehealth so sometimes family tells me about their doctor or care/work they're going to have done. I was asked if I knew anything about a medical procedure by an extended family member. I didn't - but offered that I had heard to make sure that an MDA was going to be providing their care instead of a CRNA and told them about their differences in training. It turns out that she made sure that she had one and thanked me because she thought everything went well. My uncle is going in for surgery soon and guess who is now telling their dad which provider to use?

 

[loveoforganic]

Some specialties make posters.

The radiology department in one hospital where I work has posters advising patients to ask to make sure a radiologist is reading their films, not just an ordinary doctor.

Imagine the stir if the ASA started distributing posters advising patients to ask to make sure an anesthesiologist was directing or supervising their anesthesia, not just a nurse.

This is actually a great idea... Forget the stir - the publicity is currently very one-sided, on what (logical) grounds could such a thing be argued against? It doesn't even have to mention CRNAs

 

[D P356]

.

 

[surgeryrulez]

OP, this is lame.
SurgeryRulez? but you're doing anesthesiology? Interesting that you would name yourself that while knowing you were planning to do gas.
Secondly, you're running out of names. Anynoise, Hamptonswave, Maceo, Marnie, Owie.

Clearly you wanted to instigate something, I applaud you for posting in other threads to give yourself some cred. But, no. I'm not buying it and am calling you out.

If I'm wrong, well, I don't really care. I'm calling what looks like a spade, a spade.

Regardless, I hope you find something in your life that gives you satisfaction and makes you happy.

damn, u caught me... didnt think there was anyone on this forum who would be able to, but clearly ive underestimated your abilities...

no seriously, this is a real issue and its posters like u that change this from something important to something irrelevant to our future careers.

 

[D P356]

.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

fail to see how this differs significantly from the op's encounter.

That's what I'm saying; it happens to other specialties, also. And they are coming up with a visible advertising campaign to fight it. I know the ASA has that doctor by your side website, but you have to go out of your way to find that.

 

[scudrunner]

The last edition of the ASA Newsletter had a piece on this topic, called "Michigan," written by Dr. Elmassian. Obviously, it was focused on MI's efforts, but it shows there is a movement beginning. I really liked the poster in the article too. I hope the campaign continues, and spreads like wildfire.

 

[dbiddy808]

I'd say get used to it. If you want to be happy as an anesthesiologist, you need to be able to handle this aspect of the profession. You will get a lot of people not really knowing what value you add. Patients, nurses, surgeons, administration. If it bothers you, don't do it. It really bothered me and I am back in training doing a critical care fellowship.

Or...you can go into academics. Otherwise...surgeons/nurses/patients who "get it" will appreciate what you do. And if that is not enough...never having to spend you day off in medical records, making good money and having a good life hopefully will be enough to get over it.

 

[pd4emergence]

To the op, just let it roll off your back. Most people don't know what we do. Even most physicians don't know what we do. I wish a med schools required an anesthesia rotation, so do but most do not. Personally, I wish the Asa would undertake a national campaign to inform patients on why we are an important part of their surgery experience.

 

[docsleeper]

so i just matched into anesthesiology... yay! was seeing a patient in clinic today during one of my last rotations of medical school... the patient asked me about what im going into and i said answer said anesthesiology. the patient responded by saying, "u need to go for 4 years of medical school for that?? my daughter is finishing nursing degree in community college and planning to become an anesthesiologist in 2 more years. " how would you respond? made me pretty mad.

Haven't any of you learned anything. You all are easily sarcastic and complain about whats happening but when an opportunity presents itself to educate the public on what we do, your response is to do nothing. Unbelievable. I tell every one of my patients before they go to the OR that I will be the MD in the operating room along with the surgeon and as he works on whatever area he is working on, I will be controlling all of your vital functions. Less then 5 minutes of education goes a long way when they go home and actually say, "did you know my anesthesiologist actually does this, that, the other thing and not just put me to sleep and leaves the room. We must educate the public and continue to let them know that it is still dangerous and an MD should be responsible for your life. SO when something like this happens to you again, Tell your patient that you are the MD, explain the years of education and training and say that you would always want an MD to take care of you in surgery and not a nurse.