how important are med. school grades?

[Reborn24]

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in relation to ECs and board score in applying for residency. I know it's somewhat subject, but can someone perhaps give me a percentage breakdown. thanks.

 

[TommyGunn04]

I'm not sure anyone can give you a realistic breakdown without more information. Particularly, it depends a great deal on what type of residency we're talking about. For example, if you're thinking about ortho, radiology, dermatology, ophthalmology, plastic surgery, or other such uber-competitive fields, then board scores are often used as a cutoff in application screening, and are clearly very important. In such cases, grades, letters, and your school's reputation are rather important as well. On the other hand, if we're talking about psychiatry or family medicine, things are a lot more subjective. In these cases, interesting extracurriculars and the like could easily offset sub-par board scores at some programs. This may even be true of internal medicine programs, although probably not the top-tier ones. Does that make sense? What sort of residency are you asking about?

 

[Reborn24]

I'm not sure anyone can give you a realistic breakdown without more information. Particularly, it depends a great deal on what type of residency we're talking about. For example, if you're thinking about ortho, radiology, dermatology, ophthalmology, plastic surgery, or other such uber-competitive fields, then board scores are often used as a cutoff in application screening, and are clearly very important. In such cases, grades, letters, and your school's reputation are rather important as well. On the other hand, if we're talking about psychiatry or family medicine, things are a lot more subjective. In these cases, interesting extracurriculars and the like could easily offset sub-par board scores at some programs. This may even be true of internal medicine programs, although probably not the top-tier ones. Does that make sense? What sort of residency are you asking about?[

i was think of cardiothoracic surgery. is it difficult to get.

 

[USAF MD '05]

Cardiothoracic surgery isn't a residency at all. I guess you're still (very) early in the game. You do a 5 year gen surg residency, or more depending on research. Then you apply for a fellowship. Med school grades probably have 0% play in getting this or not. It is usually an 8-9 year path from my understanding. Good luck.

 

[TommyGunn04]

Cardiothoracic surgery isn't a residency at all. I guess you're still (very) early in the game. You do a 5 year gen surg residency, or more depending on research. Then you apply for a fellowship. Med school grades probably have 0% play in getting this or not. It is usually an 8-9 year path from my understanding. Good luck.

BUT, med school grades are important in helping you secure a good general surgery residency position, which positions you better to land a good cardiothoracic fellowship. Clinical grades are most important, as are board scores; your basic science grades don't matter all that much, and many schools are now just pass/fail or honors/pass/fail as a result.

 

[Reborn24]

really? clinical grades are more important than basic science grades? But your dean will write the letter to the residency spot stating whether you are in the top half or lower half of your class

 

[(nicedream)]

really? clinical grades are more important than basic science grades? But your dean will write the letter to the residency spot stating whether you are in the top half or lower half of your class

Dean's letter also not that important. Board scores are huge. Then clinical grades and letters of recommendation from clinical preceptors.

 

[DOtobe]

really? clinical grades are more important than basic science grades? But your dean will write the letter to the residency spot stating whether you are in the top half or lower half of your class

The dean's letter does state where you fall in the class, but it also contains the evaluations and comments you received from preceptors on your different rotations, which can give an idea of what you will be like as an intern/resident.

 

[Reborn24]

Dean's letter also not that important. Board scores are huge. Then clinical grades and letters of recommendation from clinical preceptors.

so how important is basic science grades the first 2 years

 

[Reborn24]

Cardiothoracic surgery isn't a residency at all. I guess you're still (very) early in the game. You do a 5 year gen surg residency, or more depending on research. Then you apply for a fellowship. Med school grades probably have 0% play in getting this or not. It is usually an 8-9 year path from my understanding. Good luck.

so, how competitive is it to secure a fellowship after you complete 5 years of general residency. is it pretty much there for me as long as i want it or do i have to compete more.

 

[TommyGunn04]

so how important is basic science grades the first 2 years

I'd venture to say that for most specialties, they're not very important at all, which is why many schools have gone over to pass/fail grading, or H/P/F, as I said. It's your clinical grades that matter most, along with board scores and letters. For more competitive fields, your pre-clinical grades might be important too, as would AOA status, but this isn't true for the majority of residency programs.

By the way, not all schools specify your rank in the class in your Deans letter/MSPE. Mine doesn't, not at all, not even top vs. bottom half.

 

[Reborn24]

I'd venture to say that for most specialties, they're not very important at all, which is why many schools have gone over to pass/fail grading, or H/P/F, as I said. It's your clinical grades that matter most, along with board scores and letters. For more competitive fields, your pre-clinical grades might be important too, as would AOA status, but this isn't true for the majority of residency programs.

By the way, not all schools specify your rank in the class in your Deans letter/MSPE. Mine doesn't, not at all, not even top vs. bottom half.

how do u get AOA status

 

[Lemont]

so, how competitive is it to secure a fellowship after you complete 5 years of general residency. is it pretty much there for me as long as i want it or do i have to compete more.

Currently, getting a cardiothoracic surgery fellowship is not competetive. It's probably one of the least competetive fellowships after a general surgery residency. For the past few years many of the fellowship positions have gone unfilled. Do a search in the Surgery Forum and you'll see a number of discussions as to why this is. And it is most likely going to stay uncompetetive unless some big changes are made (like in fellowship programs being shut down to create less positions---which is unlikely).

As far as med school grades go, they become almost meaningless the instant you open your envelope to find out where you matched for residency. Fellowships rely on more relevant criteria---like your performance during residency, your PD letter, letters of recommendation from faculty that have worked with you during residency, and so forth. They don't care much about what grade you got in Biochemistry while you were a medical student.

 

[Reborn24]

Currently, getting a cardiothoracic surgery fellowship is not competetive. It's probably one of the least competetive fellowships after a general surgery residency. For the past few years many of the fellowship positions have gone unfilled. Do a search in the Surgery Forum and you'll see a number of discussions as to why this is. And it is most likely going to stay uncompetetive unless some big changes are made (like in fellowship programs being shut down to create less positions---which is unlikely).

As far as med school grades go, they become almost meaningless the instant you open your envelope to find out where you matched for residency. Fellowships rely on more relevant criteria---like your performance during residency, your PD letter, letters of recommendation from faculty that have worked with you during residency, and so forth. They don't care much about what grade you got in Biochemistry while you were a medical student.

so can u tell me why cardiothoracic is so uncompetitive.

 

[EasyRider]

so can u tell me why cardiothoracic is so uncompetitive.

LIFESTYLE BITES!!!!

 

[Lemont]

so can u tell me why cardiothoracic is so uncompetitive.

If you do a quick search in the Surgery Forum you'll find out. But to summarize: cardiologists have taken away many of the CABG operations that are the main "moneymaker" for CT surgeons and are even starting to encroach on valve surgery, finding a CT job after fellowship is very hard nowadays, compensation has been decreasing, and the lifestyle remains tough (most CT attendings work well above 60 hours/week). All these factors have made CT surgery not as an attractive option like it used to be. People didn't mind the tough lifestyle as long as they were making serious bank and knew they would easily have a job after fellowship. That is not the case anymore.

 

[Reborn24]

If you do a quick search in the Surgery Forum you'll find out. But to summarize: cardiologists have taken away many of the CABG operations that are the main "moneymaker" for CT surgeons and are even starting to encroach on valve surgery, finding a CT job after fellowship is very hard nowadays, compensation has been decreasing, and the lifestyle remains tough (most CT attendings work well above 60 hours/week). All these factors have made CT surgery not as an attractive option like it used to be. People didn't mind the tough lifestyle as long as they were making serious bank and knew they would easily have a job after fellowship. That is not the case anymore.

how about cardiovascular surgery?

 

[labangel]

Dean's letter also not that important. Board scores are huge. Then clinical grades and letters of recommendation from clinical preceptors.

This depends on the specialty. For less competitive specialties, strong LORs can make up for less than stellar board scores.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

*rubs temple* Use the search function.

 

[DrDre']

You get AOA by being intelligent, hard-working, self-motivated, and being able to perform research on subjects you don't understand (i.e. searches).