How important is class rank?

[DimaDrill]

I am just curious on how much of a role will class rank play in me getting a residency spot? I am ranked in the middle of my class and I am worried that I won't get any residencies. I don't want to be a cardiologist or a competitive specialty like that. Are board scores a lot more important? Are Clinical evaluations more important? Should I not sleep at all and study bring my grades up? Any advice? I am a first year by the way.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Pansit]

I am just curious on how much of a role will class rank play in me getting a residency spot? I am ranked in the middle of my class and I am worried that I won't get any residencies. I don't want to be a cardiologist or a competitive specialty like that. Are board scores a lot more important? Are Clinical evaluations more important? Should I not sleep at all and study bring my grades up? Any advice? I am a first year by the way.

You can get a residency no matter where your rank is as long as you dont fail out....but it depends on what residency you want (more competition= greater rank the better)...a nice step one would be great and great evals as well, LORS, activities, connections...but that is my perception, take it for what it's worth.

 

[Quakkilla]

I am just curious on how much of a role will class rank play in me getting a residency spot? I am ranked in the middle of my class and I am worried that I won't get any residencies. I don't want to be a cardiologist or a competitive specialty like that. Are board scores a lot more important? Are Clinical evaluations more important? Should I not sleep at all and study bring my grades up? Any advice? I am a first year by the way.

How do you have your class rank as a first year? We didn't get ours till the end of the first year jusr before we started our second.

 

[Pansit]

How do you have your class rank as a first year? We didn't get ours till the end of the first year jusr before we started our second.

I think maybe he/she is just estimating based on how everyone else is doing?..i dunno

 

[Jamers]

How do you have your class rank as a first year? We didn't get ours till the end of the first year jusr before we started our second.

We got ours at DMU at the start of the second semester

 

[Pansit]

We got ours at DMU at the start of the second semester

I see

 

[FizbanZymogen]

We got ours at DMU at the start of the second semester

And surprise, surprise........JAMERS IS FIRST IN HIS CLASS!!!!

 

[Pansit]

And surprise, surprise........JAMERS IS FIRST IN HIS CLASS!!!!

Jamers definitely is number 1...you can tell from the time he spends here on SDN that he is one of those "geniuses" in med-school that barely study and ace's all his tests

 

[Jamers]

Jamers definitely is number 1...you can tell from the time he spends here on SDN that he is one of those "geniuses" in med-school that barely study and ace's all his tests

haha I wish, top half for me and that is where I want to stay . I had a brief stay in the top quarter but lost it when I had some personal problems. I give major props to anyone in the top quarter of our class, they are the freaking geniuses; either that or the spend way too much time studying and not enough time drinking.

 

[Pansit]

haha I wish, top half for me and that is where I want to stay . I had a brief stay in the top quarter but lost it when I had some personal problems. I give major props to anyone in the top quarter of our class, they are the freaking geniuses; either that or the spend way too much time studying and not enough time drinking.

I often wonder how one can be in the top quarter of a med-school class when everyone studies and works hard. Is it the efficiency of how they study and not the quatity?...no matter what, it tough competition.

 

[Jamers]

I often wonder how one can be in the top quarter of a med-school class when everyone studies and works hard. Is it the efficiency of how they study and not the quatity?...no matter what, it tough competition.

As many people have said: medical school is a marathon, not a sprint. So, you may be really intelligent, score really well on some tests but, do you have the determination to sit down day after day and put that same effort in? That is what a lot of it comes down to. I for one found myself stressing out a lot more when I was trying to crush tests: on a 50 point test you can only get a few wrong before you are no longer in the first std. deviation. That is too much effort for me.

 

[Pansit]

As many people have said: medical school is a marathon, not a sprint. So, you may be really intelligent, score really well on some tests but, do you have the determination to sit down day after day and put that same effort in? That is what a lot of it comes down to. I for one found myself stressing out a lot more when I was trying to crush tests: on a 50 point test you can only get a few wrong before you are no longer in the first std. deviation. That is too much effort for me.

Trying to crush every test in medical school would probably drive me crazy as well...

 

[luckystar]

Just from interviews, nobody even brought up anything that had to do with the first two years. They talked about board scores, LORs, clinical grades, and research. And then some recreational stuff. I got the impression that class rank, which at DMU is only based off the first two years, really did not come in to play as much as the other factors did. But who knows...maybe you'll run into some PD somewhere who is anal about that sort of stuff.

 

[Pansit]

Just from interviews, nobody even brought up anything that had to do with the first two years. They talked about board scores, LORs, clinical grades, and research. And then some recreational stuff. I got the impression that class rank, which at DMU is only based off the first two years, really did not come in to play as much as the other factors did. But who knows...maybe you'll run into some PD somewhere who is anal about that sort of stuff.

How do you go about doing research at DMU...i am very interested (already been accepted) but I have no actual research experience from undergrad. Should I contact professors or someone else on staff...i feel that the lack of research from undergrad somewhat hampered my app. and I really want to maximize my chances for residency?

 

[ortho060802]

Class rank probably matters for AOA but that is probably it.

 

[luckystar]

Get in touch with Dr. Larson...or whoever's in charge of research there now. He was very helpful in getting me started. Any research will help, but try to do something clinical that's relevant to a field you're interested in now.

 

[Jamers]

How do you go about doing research at DMU...i am very interested (already been accepted) but I have no actual research experience from undergrad. Should I contact professors or someone else on staff...i feel that the lack of research from undergrad somewhat hampered my app. and I really want to maximize my chances for residency?

Here is a name for you: [email protected]

He rocks and may be able to help you with the research questions.

Also remember that research is not necessary for every field (if you are going into some compeitive I would do research but, if not, I wouldn't).

 

[Pansit]

Class rank probably matters for AOA but that is probably it.

I think class rank does matter but probably not as much as other factors...boards, evals, LOR's...I am sure it probably matters more also in the uber-competitive residencies although it's hard to rank them because applicants come from different schools...

 

[djnels01]

How do you go about doing research at DMU...i am very interested (already been accepted) but I have no actual research experience from undergrad. Should I contact professors or someone else on staff...i feel that the lack of research from undergrad somewhat hampered my app. and I really want to maximize my chances for residency?

You apply for summer research after your first semester at DMU. Applications are due in March and my impression is that you are contacted by the professor personally if you were accepted for a research position with them. Not sure how competitive the process is. Depends on the class I suppose...

Lack of research experience probably won't come into play when you are applying for residency unless you are going for one of the more competitive fields (Rads, Derm, Ortho Surg, ENT, etc.). It does nothing but help you if you have it, but it may be overkill if you are going for something in primary care (FP, IM, Psych, Peds, and OB/Gyn). This is what I have been told, though I have no first hand experience as I am only a first year...

 

[djnels01]

Here is a name for you: [email protected]

He rocks and may be able to help you with the research questions.

Also remember that research is not necessary for every field (if you are going into some compeitive I would do research but, if not, I wouldn't).

Pretty much what I was trying to say, but not is so many words...

 

[Pansit]

You apply for summer research after your first semester at DMU. Applications are due in March and my impression is that you are contacted by the professor personally if you were accepted for a research position with them. Not sure how competitive the process is. Depends on the class I suppose...

Lack of research experience probably won't come into play when you are applying for residency unless you are going for one of the more competitive fields (Rads, Derm, Ortho Surg, ENT, etc.). It does nothing but help you if you have it, but it may be overkill if you are going for something in primary care (FP, IM, Psych, Peds, and OB/Gyn). This is what I have been told, though I have no first hand experience as I am only a first year.

I see thanks...I am still not sure what I may want to do so I dont want to close doors before they are open and as you stated it can only help me. I guess we will see what happens.

 

[djnels01]

I see thanks...I am still not sure what I may want to do so I dont want to close doors before they are open and as you stated it can only help me. I guess we will see what happens.

No offense Pansit, but do you have a lot of free time? I just noticed that you've replied to 10 straight, separate posts within the past 10 minutes. My god, you are active on the boards today!

 

[Pansit]

No offense Pansit, but do you have a lot of free time? I just noticed that you've replied to 10 straight, separate posts within the past 10 minutes. My god, you are active on the boards today!

trying to keep my spot on the top

 

[djnels01]

make that 20+ in about 45 minutes...

 

[Pansit]

make that 20+ in about 45 minutes...

look at the times on those posts...it starts at 1:00 o clock...lol

 

[djnels01]

look at the times on those posts...it starts at 1:00 o clock...lol

HOLY SCHNIKES, you joined yesterday? 40 posts/day, at that rate you'll be a senior moderator in no time-

 

[Pansit]

HOLY SCHNIKES, you joined yesterday? 40 posts/day, at that rate you'll be a senior moderator in no time-

oh man...you found out my true intentions...

 

[djnels01]

look at the times on those posts...it starts at 1:00 o clock...lol

You've been on since 1? yowzah!

 

[Pansit]

You've been on since 1? yowzah!

yeah the hardest posts to respond to was the one about DMU supergenious since I dont know any of those guys...but I somehow managed

 

[Jamers]

oh man...you found out my true intentions...

DJ are you doing research or not this summer? I just got informed that the paper I submited is finally ready to be sent off (my professor was lazy). It's not medical school research but no one can beat rat sex!!

By the way, I got my MPH acceptance, are you still doing MHA?

 

[Pansit]

DJ are you doing research or not this summer? I just got informed that the paper I submited is finally ready to be sent off (my professor was lazy). It's not medical school research but no one can beat rat sex!!

By the way, I got my MPH acceptance, are you still doing MHA?

congrats on that acceptance jamers!!

 

[jrf331]

You want some evidence, instead of all us undergrad me student spouting off about how LORs and more important than Boards or class rank. Read what the latest ERAS info is.

A bit of new information from an ERAS study about success in the ACGME-NRMP match (MD)
-----
[Assume parallels in the AOA-NMP match (DO)]

What are programs looking for
things they look for are: AAMC match outcomes for ACGME Programs (best predictors of match)

1. Performance on Step 1 of USMLE
2. Membership in Alpha Omega Alpha (MD school honor society)
3. Existence of applicant authored publications
4. Research experience
5. Number of programs ranked by applicant (the more the better chance)

Also noted (but not ranked in study):
6. Medical school transcripts (clerkship grades)
7. Medical Student Performance Evaluation (MSPE) = Dean’s letter
8. Letters of recommendation
9. Personal statements from ERAS
10. Interview experience


So Boards and Honor society seem to be the two most important things. And who get into the Honor Society usually top 25% of class but this differs with school.

 

[Pansit]

You want some evidence, instead of all us undergrad me student spouting off about how LORs and more important than Boards or class rank. Read what the latest ERAS info is.

A bit of new information from an ERAS study about success in the ACGME-NRMP match (MD)
-----
[Assume parallels in the AOA-NMP match (DO)]

What are programs looking for
things they look for are: AAMC match outcomes for ACGME Programs (best predictors of match)

1. Performance on Step 1 of USMLE
2. Membership in Alpha Omega Alpha (MD school honor society)
3. Existence of applicant authored publications
4. Research experience
5. Number of programs ranked by applicant (the more the better chance)

Also noted (but not ranked in study):
6. Medical school transcripts (clerkship grades)
7. Medical Student Performance Evaluation (MSPE) = Dean’s letter
8. Letters of recommendation
9. Personal statements from ERAS
10. Interview experience


So Boards and Honor society seem to be the two most important things. And who get into the Honor Society usually top 25% of class but this differs with school.

Since AoA is an MD honor society I guessing DO's cannot be a part of that, so well that give us a disadvantage or will they just look directly at our class rank and determine that if we had one, then they would be in it....it's ranked 2nd so it seems pretty important in their eyes.

 

[jrf331]

Since AoA is an MD honor society I guessing DO's cannot be a part of that, so well that give us a disadvantage or will they just look directly at our class rank and determine that if we had one, then they would be in it....it's ranked 2nd so it seems pretty important in their eyes.

SSP is the Osteopathic equivlant to AoA.

 

[Pansit]

SSP is the Osteopathic equivlant to AoA.

Is SSP looked on the same way as the AOA in allopathic circles? If its an honor society it must have some prestige associated with it.

 

[djnels01]

You want some evidence, instead of all us undergrad me student spouting off about how LORs and more important than Boards or class rank. Read what the latest ERAS info is.

A bit of new information from an ERAS study about success in the ACGME-NRMP match (MD)
-----
[Assume parallels in the AOA-NMP match (DO)]

What are programs looking for
things they look for are: AAMC match outcomes for ACGME Programs (best predictors of match)

1. Performance on Step 1 of USMLE
2. Membership in Alpha Omega Alpha (MD school honor society)
3. Existence of applicant authored publications
4. Research experience
5. Number of programs ranked by applicant (the more the better chance)

Also noted (but not ranked in study):
6. Medical school transcripts (clerkship grades)
7. Medical Student Performance Evaluation (MSPE) = Dean’s letter
8. Letters of recommendation
9. Personal statements from ERAS
10. Interview experience


So Boards and Honor society seem to be the two most important things. And who get into the Honor Society usually top 25% of class but this differs with school.

Nice find...

Jamers, I'm planning on doing the MHA program, maybe taking some classes this summer. No research for me, I want to enjoy my last free summer on earth...

 

[San_Juan_Sun]

I am just curious on how much of a role will class rank play in me getting a residency spot? I am ranked in the middle of my class and I am worried that I won't get any residencies. I don't want to be a cardiologist or a competitive specialty like that. Are board scores a lot more important? Are Clinical evaluations more important? Should I not sleep at all and study bring my grades up? Any advice? I am a first year by the way.

Board scores > Class rank

How to interperet your class rank:
Top 20% - Stands out, not the whole banana split but a nice cherry on the top.
Middle 60% - Good. They know you have a solid base.
Bottom 20% - A potential red flag. If you have good boards/letters it may not be a big deal. If you barely passed boards, a trend is starting...

Of course it differs tremendously between programs and specialties, but the holy grail is great letters, good board scores, and rotating at programs in your 4th year. Class rank is important, but generally behind this top tier. Of all those, your audition rotation may be the most important.

Disclaimer: I'm only discussing AOA programs (Gen. Surg.)

 

[San_Juan_Sun]

Just from interviews, nobody even brought up anything that had to do with the first two years. They talked about board scores, LORs, clinical grades, and research. And then some recreational stuff. I got the impression that class rank, which at DMU is only based off the first two years, really did not come in to play as much as the other factors did. But who knows...maybe you'll run into some PD somewhere who is anal about that sort of stuff.

This is good advice. On interviews, I was mostly asked stuff like "So, what do you do for fun?" The only academic questions were the cases I had to run. For example: A patient comes to the ER with belly pain for 4 hours... and then you walk the interviewers thru the case/ read x-rays/ discuss Tx, etc. And that was only on about half of my interviews.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

It matters if you are first or last. Otherwise it doesn't mean much.

Id shoot for top 20% if you are looking for a goal.