How important is GRE score?

[psych84]

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So I'm interested in some Masters programs in the Western USA. The GPA requirement is quite low for the school in question (2.5minimum in last 2yrs), though I realize minimum can be quite different to the admitted gpa. Neverthless, you do also have to do the GRE and another test that is related to teaching. So it got me thinking about admission in general, and wondering, do some schools prefer great GRE scores compared to GPA? Could it be more important for some schools?

Unfortunatley my overall GPA is ****ty, just under 3.0. Unfortunatley I failed a course in my first 20 courses (first half of degree), then failed one in my last half. Sort of screwing myself out of an overall good gpa and a good last 2yrs. So I guess I'm hoping it is the case that GRE is more important in some circumstances, and that there are legitimatley good schools who will look past a slightly poor GPA.

The other reason that I thought GRE might be quite important is because when I loooked at the best educational psychology programs being ranked by USNews, it seemed to rank them based on that.

 

[WisNeuro]

GRE score is probably more important than GPA for many programs. Also, throw the USNews rankings out the window, they are fairly meaningless. If your GPA is pretty low though (sub 3.0) then the GRE better be pretty good, and you will have to explain the failed courses in a meaningful way. Master's programs will generally not be as competitive as PhD programs though.

 

[psych84]

GRE score is probably more important than GPA for many programs. Also, throw the USNews rankings out the window, they are fairly meaningless. If your GPA is pretty low though (sub 3.0) then the GRE better be pretty good, and you will have to explain the failed courses in a meaningful way. Master's programs will generally not be as competitive as PhD programs though.

I don't know if this is a good "excuse" for the failed courses, but I had been diagnosed with a mental disorder right before my degree started. (literally right before, like few months)

I have to do the GRE general for this application. What is the best way to study for it? What are the best resources?

 

[bcliff]

No offense intended, but if that's your excuse, then why would a graduate program want to admit you? If you suffer from a disorder that impacts your academic performance, then the only way I could see benefiting your application by mentioning it, is if you talk about how you have done well in school despite facing more difficulties and hurdles than the average student.

Also, I think that discussing your own psychopathology in an application is normally considered a pretty big red flag to admissions' committees - I think most programs are wary of admitting students who are interested in psychology to solve their own mental health problems (even if that's not your intention).

 

[Icculus8]

http://psychology.unl.edu/psichi/Graduate_School_Application_Kisses_of_Death.pdf

Check the 'excessive self-disclosure section for more info. It is going to be a fine line to try and draw if you do choose to disclose that information as a means to justify your poor grades. It sounds like it is not necessarily a bad thing, but you will want to be careful with how much you share. I also think you might face an uphill battle given that you have a failed course early in your career, but have also had one more recently (taking away the typical "i didnt do well early on but have really buckled down in my last few years" justification).

In your case, based on your GPA, GRE will be extra important to show academic potential, and you may find that master's programs are more likely to overlook the GPA to give you a chance.

If the courses you failed were psychology courses, you might consider taking the Psychology subject GRE, which could help to show schools that despite a lower Psych GPA, you have learned the material necessary for future graduate study.

 

[WisNeuro]

I'm with BC on this one. For that particular argument, places will want to know that you can overcome the adversity, not be dragged down by it. Grad school is a stressful time, and much more academically rigorous than anything you will have seen in undergrad. Also, BC is right, people are wary of "me-searchers." It can lead to a lack of objectivity and bias in clinical work and research. My advice is to do really well on the GRE (as for study tips, I'll defer to those who have taken it more recently) and practice ways to speak about your failed courses.

 

[psych84]

Hey,

Thanks for the comments guys.

I do realize that using mental health as an excuse for a couple failed courses is probably a bad idea. I do think it is unfortunate though that people are basically encouraged to lie. Assuming a school is willing to look past a sub 3.0 gpa (mine is 2.94), I would hope that one excuse wouldn't be looked at as so much more preferable than another because of our own biases.

No I did not fail any psychology courses. I failed a foreign language course and a health administration course.

 

[WisNeuro]

I don't look at it as a bias. It really does come down to, how well can you handle things when the going gets tough? I look at it as much about protecting the student as much as it is protecting the program. This is a high demand/high stress undertaking. People need to be able to handle that.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Hey,

Thanks for the comments guys.

I do realize that using mental health as an excuse for a couple failed courses is probably a bad idea. I do think it is unfortunate though that people are basically encouraged to lie. Assuming a school is willing to look past a sub 3.0 gpa (mine is 2.94), I would hope that one excuse wouldn't be looked at as so much more preferable than another because of our own biases.

No I did not fail any psychology courses. I failed a foreign language course and a health administration course.

I am not sure how a mental illness would account for failing those two courses and I don't believe that you should lie. It is all about the rationale behind it. In other words, I have found that a coherent explanation can go a long way towards making up the difference in applications. I have my own personal history that I have had to explain throughout my training and education and my advice to you is that it is essential to learn how to self-disclose appropriately.

Also, I second what other posters said about the GRE, I wish I had known the importance of the GRE math section and taken some prep courses for that. My math score was pretty low (it was actually 70th percentile lol) since it had been years since I had really studied much mathematics by the time I took the test.

 

[psych84]

I am not sure how a mental illness would account for failing those two courses and I don't believe that you should lie. It is all about the rationale behind it. In other words, I have found that a coherent explanation can go a long way towards making up the difference in applications. I have my own personal history that I have had to explain throughout my training and education and my advice to you is that it is essential to learn how to self-disclose appropriately.

Also, I second what other posters said about the GRE, I wish I had known the importance of the GRE math section and taken some prep courses for that. My math score was pretty low (it was actually 70th percentile lol) since it had been years since I had really studied much mathematics by the time I took the test.

The link lcculus8 posted seems like a very accurate reflection of the mistakes that applicants make. Certaintly mental problems can cause a wide range of issues, from concentration problems, to sleep issues, etc, that can impact marks. But I think I may not actually address the mental issues, but more discuss mistakes in study habits, and how I had to adjust and organize myself because I'm an independent learner.

 

[WisNeuro]

The link lcculus8 posted seems like a very accurate reflection of the mistakes that applicants make. Certaintly mental problems can cause a wide range of issues, from concentration problems, to sleep issues, etc, that can impact marks. But I think I may not actually address the mental issues, but more discuss mistakes in study habits, and how I had to adjust and organize myself because I'm an independent learner.

That may be good tactic to take, but you better have a much better GPA your final two years or it will seem disingenuine.

 

[psych84]

That may be good tactic to take, but you better have a much better GPA your final two years or it will seem disingenuine.

I will need to take 7 additional courses (outside of my degree) or if i took a whole new 2nd degree to get rid of the failed mark.

 

[WisNeuro]

I didn't mean retake the class, I was more commenting on when the class failures came in your student career. If they came in the last 2 years, that is much worse than if they happened earlier on.

 

[psych84]

I didn't mean retake the class, I was more commenting on when the class failures came in your student career. If they came in the last 2 years, that is much worse than if they happened earlier on.

One happened early and one was near the middle of third year.

What I meant to say with my previous post is that I'd have to do 7 additional courses, to get the failed course out of my last two years.

 

[WisNeuro]

Ah, you'll have to think of some way to talk about it then. If you talk about how you had to change study habits to overcome it and such, they are going to wonder why it happened a second time. Not trying to be a stick in the mud, just letting you know that some programs look at these things and will want an explanation.

 

[smalltownpsych]

The link lcculus8 posted seems like a very accurate reflection of the mistakes that applicants make. Certaintly mental problems can cause a wide range of issues, from concentration problems, to sleep issues, etc, that can impact marks. But I think I may not actually address the mental issues, but more discuss mistakes in study habits, and how I had to adjust and organize myself because I'm an independent learner.

Obviously mental illnesses can impact performance. Most definitions of mental illness involve impaired functioning. What I was trying to get at and Wis stated as well, is that the rationale or narrative is what really matters and it needs to be consistent and coherent. Anything that raises any eyebrows can be a problem. Also, focusing on those two F's might be part of the problem. In other words, what was the pattern of performance in other classes. Heck, you could probably write both of those classes off as aberrations if there is another more relevant pattern.

For example, in my first couple of years of college I had almost all C's because I was not committed and was more involved in the parties than I was in school. I didn't have any F's because I would drop before that happened. When I returned to school later in life, my performance was much improved and I had about a 3.85 the last two years. I did get one C in a music appreciation course and even if that had been an F, I don't think that would have mattered too much because I had mostly A's in my psychology courses (one B I think). My overall GPA for undergrad finally ended up being a 3.01 if I recall correctly.

So my narrative is one of improvement as I matured and became more committed. I don't know what your narrative should be, it could even be one of ongoing struggles that you are managing but that still might cause difficulties in grad school. The speaker at our doctoral commencement was a woman who had schizophrenia and was able to obtain a PhD in psychology at another major university nonetheless. She spoke eloquently about her struggles with explaining her own issues throughout her educational career.

Good luck with your pursuit of an advanced degree.