How important is quality of coursework?

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starstruck20

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Do adcoms look down if students wanted to take a few astronomy or plant courses or courses typically seen as "fluff" thrown in their coursework? It would result in an upward trend (my last three years have been so-so). But I have completed my pre-reqs and some upper levels for my major like Histology, Anatomy, Biochem and Immuno!

I am taking Physiology, Molec and Cell bio, and Microbio and some grad requirements in addition to an astronomy course in the fall. Or maybe some plant course. My schedule in the spring looks the same. It is my senior year before I apply so I was wondering if its okay?

I heard avoiding hard courses completely is an issue but taking some "fluffy" courses in addition to a rigorous course load is okay? To be honest I don't want to overwhelm myself and I really enjoy the subject matter as well. Is it a deal breaker? I'm willing to drop it if it will throw me into the reject pile.
 
Just take the damn course. If it's something you really want to take and you're not taking it just to inflate your GPA, there's literally no reason why you shouldn't take it. If a med school would discriminate against you for your interests, it's not a good fit for you anyway. If the class has an interesting name or is a really interesting subject, you might even get asked about it later on and your interest and enthusiasm would come across positively.
 
Doesnt matter, they hardly look at it. Its mostly the MCAT/GPA to get you into the door. Then things that separate you from the other applicants
 
gonnif said:
Lowest Importance Ratings (< 2.5) • Completion of challenging non-science courses (see bottom left)

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Astronomy and plant courses count as BCPM so do you think that will be an issue? Or it's not a deal breaker?

I hope they can see I'm taking courses I enjoy in addition to hard courses and not in replacement of.
 
While I personally look down on Ecology courses as fluff, and have a high opinion of Astronomy, just take what interests you, and do well. It's the latter that impresses us, not what you take.




starstruck20 said:
Do adcoms look down if students wanted to take a few astronomy or plant courses or courses typically seen as "fluff" thrown in their coursework? It would result in an upward trend (my last three years have been so-so). But I have completed my pre-reqs and some upper levels for my major like Histology, Anatomy, Biochem and Immuno!

I am taking Physiology, Molec and Cell bio, and Microbio and some grad requirements in addition to an astronomy course in the fall. Or maybe some plant course. My schedule in the spring looks the same. It is my senior year before I apply so I was wondering if its okay?

I heard avoiding hard courses completely is an issue but taking some "fluffy" courses in addition to a rigorous course load is okay? To be honest I don't want to overwhelm myself and I really enjoy the subject matter as well. Is it a deal breaker? I'm willing to drop it if it will throw me into the reject pile.
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Ecology and Astronomy can be extremely challenging (particularly mid and upper level courses). Take a course in something like space plasma physics and tell me it's fluff. If you think it's interesting, then you should take it.
 
What happens if these "easy courses" are part of you major and you need to take them in order to graduate? Is this where difficulty of major comes into play? Like sociology vs biochemistry?
 
Also, I would like to say that regardless of course or at what institution you take them, it's all about the professor that determines the difficulty of the course. I have friends who went to top tier schools taking upper level courses and the professor gave them extra credit, take home tests, or easy exams and I have know friends who took introductory level course at a community college where the professor throw the encyclopedia at them.
 
PreMade said:
Also, I would like to say that regardless of course or at what institution you take them, it's all about the professor that determines the difficulty of the course. I have friends who went to top tier schools taking upper level courses and the professor gave them extra credit, take home tests, or easy exams and I have know friends who took introductory level course at a community college where the professor throw the encyclopedia at them.
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This is why the MCAT exists
 
gonnif said:
They dont care,
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Goro said:
While I personally look down on Ecology courses as fluff, and have a high opinion of Astronomy, just take what interests you, and do well. It's the latter that impresses us, not what you take.
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Goro! On top of a rigorous course load I was considering taking an Independent Study in Chem and an Astronomy course. Or I might just two Independent Studies (one per semester) for the year before I apply. Will that be looked down upon? I am definitely trying to raise my GPA and show med schools I can handle med school coursework. The thing is an Ind Study also adds to my GPA by like .01. I still have 2-3 hard science (bio/chem) courses every semester as well. Is this ok?

Have both of you ever seen students get rejected by MD/DO schools for not rigorous enough coursework?
 
Goro said:
While I personally look down on Ecology courses as fluff, and have a high opinion of Astronomy, just take what interests you, and do well. It's the latter that impresses us, not what you take.
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I took a Botany course as a Junior. Is this bad?
 
Can't speak as to MD schools; perhaps the wise @LizzyM or @gyngyn can cover this.

At my school, offhand, only rarely in any of our Adcom meetings has someone been dinged for a "soft" course load. Keep in mind that we've accepted non-science majors who took the bare-bones minimum of pre-reqs.

It's possibly a issue of the applicant is borderline to begin with. If you're looking to kick someone off the fence, a real example was one when one Adcom member kept pointing out "look at his senior year, no high level classes! That's when you're supposed to take the stuff that you like and challenge yourself!"

So my answer in mulling this over is that 1-2 classes aren't going to keep you out of medical school; it's the context of an entire year or even two that might. Keep in mind that having a single F on your transcript in Physics isn't going to keep you out of Harvard, so why should a course in Independent Study in Chem and an Astronomy course do so???.

amapples said:
Goro! On top of a rigorous course load I was considering taking an Independent Study in Chem and an Astronomy course. Or I might just two Independent Studies (one per semester) for the year before I apply. Will that be looked down upon? I am definitely trying to raise my GPA and show med schools I can handle med school coursework. The thing is an Ind Study also adds to my GPA by like .01. I still have 2-3 hard science (bio/chem) courses every semester as well. Is this ok?

Have both of you ever seen students get rejected by MD/DO schools for not rigorous enough coursework?
Click to expand...
 
Goro said:
Can't speak as to MD schools; perhaps the wise @LizzyM or @gyngyn can cover this.

At my school, offhand, only rarely in any of our Adcom meetings has someone been dinged for a "soft" course load. Keep in mind that we've accepted non-science majors who took the bare-bones minimum of pre-reqs.

It's possibly a issue of the applicant is borderline to begin with. If you're looking to kick someone off the fence, a real example was one when one Adcom member kept pointing out "look at his senior year, no high level classes! That's when you're supposed to take the stuff that you like and challenge yourself!"

So my answer in mulling this over is that 1-2 classes aren't going to keep you out of medical school; it's the context of an entire year or even two that might. Keep in mind that having a single F on your transcript in Physics isn't going to keep you out of Harvard, so why should a course in Independent Study in Chem and an Astronomy course do so???.
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gyngyn said:
We care that you have distinguished yourself in your chosen field of study and have shown competence in the physical and social sciences.
Do it any way you want to do it.
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So I apologize for being redundant but I am going to assume both you and gyngyn mean that as long as you have taken challenging courses within your major, extra courses in addition to those are perfectly okay.
 
gyngyn said:
We care that you have distinguished yourself in your chosen field of study and have shown competence in the physical and social sciences.
Do it any way you want to do it.
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I'm curious about whether @LizzyM's views have changed since this post, especially with the emphasis on competencies and whatnot. My assumption is that adcoms will ultimately consider your grades in classes like Physics and OChem more important than your grade in Genetics.
 
jb94mg said:
I'm curious about whether @LizzyM's views have changed since this post, especially with the emphasis on competencies and whatnot. My assumption is that adcoms will ultimately consider your grades in classes like Physics and OChem more important than your grade in Genetics.
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Whoa! that's a blast from the past... I had been a member < 2 months and most peeps at that point didn't know I was an adcom...

It is easiest to judge and compare students according to their performance on the pre-reqs. Doing well in upper level courses related to medicine (such as genetics) can help. Taking fluffy courses ("rocks for jocks") that appear to have been taken to beef up a weak GPA may not help. Choosing classes specifically because they will help bulk up a GPA might not be the best strategy to getting a good education.
 
LizzyM said:
Choosing classes specifically because they will help bulk up a GPA might not be the best strategy to getting a good education.
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How about the inverse: Having good grades in pre-reqs, but having GPA damaged by taking tough non-medical classes because of personal interest (GPA still 3.8+)?
 
ElCapone said:
How about the inverse: Choosing tough non-medical classes because of personal interest, but having GPA damaged by them (which is still a 3.8+)?
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A 3.8 gpa is good for any school in the country.
 
LizzyM said:
No, I'm not sarcastic. I've seen adcoms in action and an Organic Chem grade will be used to forgive a subpar BCPM (he's got a 3.3 but Organic A/A-) and to punish someone with an otherwise ok average (BPCM is 3.5 but Organic B/B-). No other grade is held up to such scrutiny. This applies to being invited for interview. It is not an issue with respect to offers.
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Jesus I sure hope that's not true anymore!
 
LizzyM said:
Whoa! that's a blast from the past... I had been a member < 2 months and most peeps at that point didn't know I was an adcom...

It is easiest to judge and compare students according to their performance on the pre-reqs. Doing well in upper level courses related to medicine (such as genetics) can help. Taking fluffy courses ("rocks for jocks") that appear to have been taken to beef up a weak GPA may not help. Choosing classes specifically because they will help bulk up a GPA might not be the best strategy to getting a good education.
Click to expand...

Sorry to put you on the spot! 😛 That helps!
 
northernlights15 said:
Jesus I sure hope that's not true anymore!
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You would think it wouldn't be since most of the top-tier schools have shifted to suggesting a semester of OChem and a semester of Biochemistry, acknowledging indirectly the irrelevance and unimportance (relatively/mostly) of OChem knowledge for future physicians. OChem should be viewed as nothing more than what it is: a precursor to studying biochemistry. In any case your grade in OChem shouldn't be a big factor (barring a C+ or lower) as long as you have a good GPA and a good MCAT score.
 
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