How important is research for residency?

[SurgDoc95]

How are you doing in your class so far? I would hold off on any of these plans until after the 1st semester.

I mean we're about to finish our second class and if I stay at my current class rank or above I'm going to pursue some research. I understand that philosophy but I'm not struggling by any means.

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[BorntobeDO?]

And I'm sure your premed patient contact is SOOO much better...

You can delete your post in a few years when a nurse saves your medical license

Dude you need to chill, you are throwing out way to much identifying information and confrontation. Please tell me you don't argue questions in class. Trust me nursing gets no respect in med school (unless you're an LPN doing standardized pts). You may notice EMT club, I mean ER club has a predilection with paramedics also.

 

[68PGunner]

I mean we're about to finish our second class and if I stay at my current class rank or above I'm going to pursue some research. I understand that philosophy but I'm not struggling by any means.

What classes have you finished? You haven't even started the real medical school yet with one month in. But, good job on doing well in school so far.

 

[SurgDoc95]

What classes have you finished? You haven't even started the real medical school yet with one month in. But, good job on doing well in school so far.

Done with biochem about to finish immuno. We start MSK Monday after our final. Going to gauge how much time I have to do research next week, but having taken gross anatomy less than 6 months ago makes me think I'll be able to hit the ground running. Also thanks!

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Can anyone speak to the need to do research in my desired specialty? I got presented with an opportunity to do anesthesiology research but I'm more interested in gen surg/ortho at this point. Is it better to hold off and try to find surgery related research?

For ortho you absolutely need research. Preferably ortho or surgery related research but anesthesia research is good too because a lot of the research stuff is basically showing that you know how to do it. Gen surg is a little more lenient as in it isn't quite the same pseudo-requirement as the subs but research (particularly pubs) will never hurt your application, and will really help you down the line if you decide you want to pursue a University level surgery spot.

So best to hold off on doing the anesthesiology research?

No just do it. Showing residency programs you know and understand HOW to do research helps and particularly for the former AOA programs as I've heard rumors that a lot of them are just struggling with the ACGME research requirements because hardly any of the current residents know how to do it. Research at DO schools isn't the easiest to come by so it wouldn't beneficial to jump onto any project that roles your way.

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

Dude you need to chill, you are throwing out way to much identifying information and confrontation. Please tell me you don't argue questions in class. Trust me nursing gets no respect in med school (unless you're an LPN doing standardized pts). You may notice EMT club, I mean ER club has a predilection with paramedics also.

No, I don't argue questions in class, if I miss a question it's my fault. Not the fault of the writer.

Nurses may get no respect, but I will teach those who want to learn that they deserve respect. They provide 99% of direct patient care - I want to have a good rapport with my nurses and them with me. If your an a**, they are less likely to call you with concerns, which could be harmful to the patient.

Not sure if i get the LPN reference... There aren't many LPN/LVN's in acute care medicine or sim medicine. Perhaps an RN? Our sim director is an RN/PhD i think. And I believe our EMIG club is made up of mostly just people who despise clinic work... ea, me and 50% of the classes. Not attempting to be confrontational, just protective of 3 million hard workers who call themselves nurses.


** How do i turn off notifications for a thread?? I have completely derailed this one... I am very sorry. **

 

[BorntobeDO?]

No, I don't argue questions in class, if I miss a question it's my fault. Not the fault of the writer.

Nurses may get no respect, but I will teach those who want to learn that they deserve respect. They provide 99% of direct patient care - I want to have a good rapport with my nurses and them with me. If your an a**, they are less likely to call you with concerns, which could be harmful to the patient.

Not sure if i get the LPN reference... There aren't many LPN/LVN's in acute care medicine or sim medicine. Perhaps an RN? Our sim director is an RN/PhD i think. And I believe our EMIG club is made up of mostly just people who despise clinic work... ea, me and 50% of the classes. Not attempting to be confrontational, just protective of 3 million hard workers who call themselves nurses.


** How do i turn off notifications for a thread?? I have completely derailed this one... I am very sorry. **

Basically no medical student is interested in 'learning to respecting nurses', after all militaristic nurses are trying to ruin our livelihood. Feedback coordinators at most schools I interviewed at were LPNs, including my home program, the director may be someone with a masters, but the point is the exposure is minimal. I don't disagree that floor nurses work hard, I think your line of defense is setting you up for trouble. Let someone else have that battle.

 

[Spectreman]

Yeah, I'd take random research project over turning patients for 6 years

Yeah, you're seriously going to eat those words when you're a practicing physician. The idea that some kid pipetting in a lab to get their name on a paper would be more valuable than someone who has been through hundreds of multiple gunshot wound traumas is just beyond the pale. I know a kid in my class that worked for a sports medicine company and has his name on over 70 publications. The nurses in our class are spinning circles around the guy. It's perfectly understandable that programs want people who can publish, but an RN's confidence in patient care will go a long way on their auditions.

The bigger problem is your attitude. You better hope your preceptors don't hear you belittle colleagues the way you do hiding behind your anonymity on SDN.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Yeah, you're seriously going to eat those words when you're a practicing physician. The idea that some kid pipetting in a lab to get their name on a paper would be more valuable than someone who has been through hundreds of multiple gunshot wound traumas is just beyond the pale. I know a kid in my class that worked for a sports medicine company and has his name on over 70 publications. The nurses in our class are spinning circles around the guy. It's perfectly understandable that programs want people who can publish, but an RN's confidence in patient care will go a long way on their auditions.

The bigger problem is your attitude. You better hope your preceptors don't hear you belittle colleagues the way you do hiding behind your anonymity on SDN.

Being a Doctor is not nurse + prescription pad. I know this little fact is too hard for you nurses to wrap your heads around, but that's reality. You're not doing a nurse's job when you rotate or you're in residency. Your "experience" in changing a colostomy bag doesn't give you any insight into diagnosing someone that needs one or doing the surgery.

 

[Spectreman]

Being a Doctor is not nurse + prescription pad. I know this little fact is too hard for you nurses to wrap your heads around, but that's reality. You're not doing a nurse's job when you rotate or you're in residency. Your "experience" in changing a colostomy bag doesn't give you any insight into diagnosing someone that needs one or doing the surgery.

The fact that you keep referencing CNA tasks to further belittle nurses shows your ignorance. Seriously, your attitude is astounding.

 

[blah12346497]

If i help out in a bench lab by doing PCR, mass spectrometry, etc and it gets published, is it worth doing? I won't get any authorship probably seeing as I'm only doing bench work. I'm obviously extremely curious in the project, however i'm trying to make the most of my time during 2nd year. I'm doing well in classes and already started studying for boards. What do you guys think? I currently have no research, maybe this would be a great place to start.

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

If i help out in a bench lab by doing PCR, mass spectrometry, etc and it gets published, is it worth doing? I won't get any authorship probably seeing as I'm only doing bench work. I'm obviously extremely curious in the project, however i'm trying to make the most of my time during 2nd year. I'm doing well in classes and already started studying for boards. What do you guys think? I currently have no research, maybe this would be a great place to start.

Can't hurt. You can put it on your CV.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

This thread is pretty special.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Yeah, you're seriously going to eat those words when you're a practicing physician. The idea that some kid pipetting in a lab to get their name on a paper would be more valuable than someone who has been through hundreds of multiple gunshot wound traumas is just beyond the pale. I know a kid in my class that worked for a sports medicine company and has his name on over 70 publications. The nurses in our class are spinning circles around the guy. It's perfectly understandable that programs want people who can publish, but an RN's confidence in patient care will go a long way on their auditions.

The bigger problem is your attitude. You better hope your preceptors don't hear you belittle colleagues the way you do hiding behind your anonymity on SDN.

I think the nurses undoubtedly will have a pretty sizable advantage in getting to work especially in getting used to 3rd year. However I'm doubtful that any background is going to lead to any spinning circles around anyone. That has more to do with them being smarter than the other, not that one was a nurse versus a researcher.

If I were an adcom and had to decide between someone with a clinical versus research skills, I'd choose the one with a higher mcat. I don't really think who you were before medical school really matters because you're going to get reshaped anyway. But knowing whether you can put in the time to do well on boards is actually valuable.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Being a Doctor is not nurse + prescription pad. I know this little fact is too hard for you nurses to wrap your heads around, but that's reality. You're not doing a nurse's job when you rotate or you're in residency. Your "experience" in changing a colostomy bag doesn't give you any insight into diagnosing someone that needs one or doing the surgery.

The fact that you keep referencing CNA tasks to further belittle nurses shows your ignorance. Seriously, your attitude is astounding.

I agree, if you're a NP then chances are you have a pretty solid knowledge base regarding a lot of clinical information and how to approach patients. You'll know how to read lab results, know guidelines for treatments, etc, practical skills. Hell you'll probably know how to join in on keeping a patient who has a gunshot alive than a 3rd year without the experience.

However that doesn't mean you're versed in the pathology either. You're not trained how to think like a doctor yet.

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

However that doesn't mean you're versed in the pathology either. You're not trained how to think like a doctor yet.

I agree with that. I don't think like a doc just yet and I don't have a leg up in the fundamental classes this first year. Hopefully 3rd year i can lean on my exp more so than i do now.

 

[FistLength]

If i help out in a bench lab by doing PCR, mass spectrometry, etc and it gets published, is it worth doing? I won't get any authorship probably seeing as I'm only doing bench work. I'm obviously extremely curious in the project, however i'm trying to make the most of my time during 2nd year. I'm doing well in classes and already started studying for boards. What do you guys think? I currently have no research, maybe this would be a great place to start.

Nope. If no authorship, don't do research. Go to another lab that will value your time and repay you kindly with authorship of some kind. Understand that people don't care if you did research, people care if you got published.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Being a Doctor is not nurse + prescription pad. I know this little fact is too hard for you nurses to wrap your heads around, but that's reality. You're not doing a nurse's job when you rotate or you're in residency. Your "experience" in changing a colostomy bag doesn't give you any insight into diagnosing someone that needs one or doing the surgery.

But the vast majority of medical students don't have that insight either.

 

[AlteredScale]

Nope. If no authorship, don't do research. Go to another lab that will value your time and repay you kindly with authorship of some kind. Understand that people don't care if you did research, people care if you got published.

This this this. It's great you got the experience but the results matter. Doing research with nothing to show leaves so many questions to answer regarding ones ability to balance research and medicine.


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[AlbinoHawk DO]

I agree, if you're a NP then chances are you have a pretty solid knowledge base regarding a lot of clinical information and how to approach patients. You'll know how to read lab results, know guidelines for treatments, etc, practical skills. Hell you'll probably know how to join in on keeping a patient who has a gunshot alive than a 3rd year without the experience.

However that doesn't mean you're versed in the pathology either. You're not trained how to think like a doctor yet.

Have you ever seen an NP to Med Student? The majority of them are sad and can't think beyond obvious first diagnosis and first line treatment. Sure, that may get you to pass 3rd year looking better, but even a 4th year can run laps around them.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Have you ever seen an NP to Med Student? The majority of them are sad and can't think beyond obvious first diagnosis and first line treatment. Sure, that may get you to pass 3rd year looking better, but even a 4th year can run laps around them.

I think this is excessive and clearly is stemming from some personal hang up. One of my good friends in med school is a NP to DO. They passed COMLEX and USMLE. They are a pretty effective student and they always have a cheery personality. One of my professors is a NP to DO, she's a very capable internist with decades of experience.

I know more than plenty of people in medical school who are pretty bad at doctoring who weren't nurses at the beginning of their career. This not pretend that there aren't also plenty of people who are horribly brilliant academics who shouldn't even be getting within 5 feet of a patient.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

The fact that you keep referencing CNA tasks to further belittle nurses shows your ignorance. Seriously, your attitude is astounding.

Lol I changed a lot of colostomy bags as a nurse, half my techs weren't allowed to, and in critical care we usually didn't have a tech anyway. I have to question your nursing experience if you think that changing a Colostomy bag is even primarily done by CNAs.

I agree with that. I don't think like a doc just yet and I don't have a leg up in the fundamental classes this first year. Hopefully 3rd year i can lean on my exp more so than i do now.

I wouldn't count on it.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I think this is excessive and clearly is stemming from some personal hang up. One of my good friends in med school is a NP to DO. They passed COMLEX and USMLE. They are a pretty effective student and they always have a cheery personality. One of my professors is a NP to DO, she's a very capable internist with decades of experience.

I know more than plenty of people in medical school who are pretty bad at doctoring who weren't nurses at the beginning of their career. This not pretend that there aren't also plenty of people who are horribly brilliant academics who shouldn't even be getting within 5 feet of a patient.

I don't have any personal hang ups. I think you misunderstood my comment. If you are an NP and become a doctor, obviously you can be an effective doctor because you go through the entire training. That's not the point I'm making. I'm saying that it is baseless to say that NP experience necessarily means you will be a better doctor. The foundation from being an NP may mean you start with some clinical advantage when 3rd year rolls around, but at the end, NP or no NP experience, everyone graduates with the same/similar competence. In my experience, many times a 4th year student is already running laps around an NP only; that's not saying running laps around an NP that's now a Med Student.

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

Lol I changed a lot of colostomy bags as a nurse, half my techs weren't allowed to, and in critical care we usually didn't have a tech anyway. I have to question your nursing experience if you think that changing a Colostomy bag is even primarily done by CNAs.

I wouldn't count on it.

You're hospital had a strange policy if NAs couldn't change a colostomy bag. It's be awhile since I've been in the pacu or icu but i believe our NAs drained and kept I/Os on most things, except CTs and wound vacs. That also sucks that you didn't have any NAs in an ICU. Low acuity i hope???

As far as 3rd year goes, I hope i'm able to mesh what I know from my previous life with my new knowledge and be an efficient student. But when I am in clinic i'm going to be completely lost. All my exp is in an inpatient settings.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I don't have any personal hang ups. I think you misunderstood my comment. If you are an NP and become a doctor, obviously you can be an effective doctor because you go through the entire training. That's not the point I'm making. I'm saying that it is baseless to say that NP experience necessarily means you will be a better doctor. The foundation from being an NP may mean you start with some clinical advantage when 3rd year rolls around, but at the end, NP or no NP experience, everyone graduates with the same/similar competence. In my experience, many times a 4th year student is already running laps around an NP only; that's not saying running laps around an NP that's now a Med Student.

I agree. I don't think any background necessarily makes you a better doctor. Anything you knew as an NP will no longer matter by 4th year for sure.

 

[Spectreman]

Again Re: nursing vs research experience being beneficial. There's no doubt that research is what residencies want to see, they're under pressure to publish and they need residents who will make it happen. To NickMT-RN, if you're wanting anything other than primary care, push to get some research - certainly don't assume your nursing experience and solid boards will get you competitive interviews.
Clinical experience DOES go a long ways with getting accepted to med school, Geffen Med stated that their. #1 reason for rejection was lack of clinical experience.
The overall benefit to working as a nurse prior to med school is obvious though, and it's weird that other nurses are chiming in here to argue otherwise. Depending on what field you worked in, you're likely familiar with hundreds of medications, their purposes and side-effects. You can likely read an EKG, you know many standard lab levels and common reasons for abnormalities, if you're a proactive nurse you probably have helped with countless procedures. Not to mention a huge chunk of med school involves learning to write SOAP notes and take a proper H&P, all of which you do practically every shift change as a nurse. Other than Anatomy and Histo, the nurses in my class have had a huge leg up, especially in classes like pharm and physio.
I'll just reiterate again, don't belittle nurses by acting like they just turn patients and change colostomy bags. Personally I worked med/surge for 5 years and always had care techs to help with what AlbinoHawk is citing as tasks irrelevant to practicing medicine. Not specifically changing colostomy bags, emptying and cleaning them.

 

[68PGunner]

Again Re: nursing vs research experience being beneficial. There's no doubt that research is what residencies want to see, they're under pressure to publish and they need residents who will make it happen. To NickMT-RN, if you're wanting anything other than primary care, push to get some research - certainly don't assume your nursing experience and solid boards will get you competitive interviews.
Clinical experience DOES go a long ways with getting accepted to med school, Geffen Med stated that their. #1 reason for rejection was lack of clinical experience.
The overall benefit to working as a nurse prior to med school is obvious though, and it's weird that other nurses are chiming in here to argue otherwise. Depending on what field you worked in, you're likely familiar with hundreds of medications, their purposes and side-effects. You can likely read an EKG, you know many standard lab levels and common reasons for abnormalities, if you're a proactive nurse you probably have helped with countless procedures. Not to mention a huge chunk of med school involves learning to write SOAP notes and take a proper H&P, all of which you do practically every shift change as a nurse. Other than Anatomy and Histo, the nurses in my class have had a huge leg up, especially in classes like pharm and physio.
I'll just reiterate again, don't belittle nurses by acting like they just turn patients and change colostomy bags. Personally I worked med/surge for 5 years and always had care techs to help with what AlbinoHawk is citing as tasks irrelevant to practicing medicine. Not specifically changing colostomy bags, emptying and cleaning them.

Fake news alert here, unless every medical specialties outside of Derm/Ortho/Surgery are primary care.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Again Re: nursing vs research experience being beneficial. There's no doubt that research is what residencies want to see, they're under pressure to publish and they need residents who will make it happen. To NickMT-RN, if you're wanting anything other than primary care, push to get some research - certainly don't assume your nursing experience and solid boards will get you competitive interviews.
Clinical experience DOES go a long ways with getting accepted to med school, Geffen Med stated that their. #1 reason for rejection was lack of clinical experience.
The overall benefit to working as a nurse prior to med school is obvious though, and it's weird that other nurses are chiming in here to argue otherwise. Depending on what field you worked in, you're likely familiar with hundreds of medications, their purposes and side-effects. You can likely read an EKG, you know many standard lab levels and common reasons for abnormalities, if you're a proactive nurse you probably have helped with countless procedures. Not to mention a huge chunk of med school involves learning to write SOAP notes and take a proper H&P, all of which you do practically every shift change as a nurse. Other than Anatomy and Histo, the nurses in my class have had a huge leg up, especially in classes like pharm and physio.
I'll just reiterate again, don't belittle nurses by acting like they just turn patients and change colostomy bags. Personally I worked med/surge for 5 years and always had care techs to help with what AlbinoHawk is citing as tasks irrelevant to practicing medicine. Not specifically changing colostomy bags, emptying and cleaning them.

Nurses are very important to the healthcare system and I absolutely am not downplaying their/our role. However, interpreting lead II is not the same as reading an EKG. There are other leads, and most nurses are not good at them (the half that can actually read strips well, cause half cannot do it at all and just copy the previous nurse in non critical care units). The history you fill out in a EHR is a checklist. The one you will be doing as physician is based on your hypothesis, i.e. you have to figure out what is going on (and its not just the H's and T's). The SOAP notes nurses write are a joke, primarily because nursing diagnosis are a joke, NANDA's anyone? http://faculty.mu.edu.sa/public/uploads/1380604673.6151NANDA 2012.pdf Just some Gems in case you forgot:

'Risk for Ineffective Relationship'
'Risk for Chronic Low Self Esteem'
'Readiness for enhanced fluid balance'
'Toileting self-care deficit'
'Ineffective airway clearance'
'Risk for Ineffective Peripheral Tissue Perfusion'
'Impaired religiosity'

These things are symptoms at best, and I included some of the better ones! They are nowhere near a real medical diagnosis.

I am not downplaying the role of the nurse, they/we are vital to healthcare. And I personally feel that nursing is disrespected by and large in medical school, but look at how nurses act when they are accepted. No wonder everyone wants to tear us down and then build up. Stop downplaying the role of the physician, you are gonna be one! Easier to do it now from SDN, then it is from faculty when they think your uppity.

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

Again Re: nursing vs research experience being beneficial. There's no doubt that research is what residencies want to see, they're under pressure to publish and they need residents who will make it happen. To NickMT-RN, if you're wanting anything other than primary care, push to get some research - certainly don't assume your nursing experience and solid boards will get you competitive interviews..

I have a proposal that I'm about to submit to the IRB... hopefully all goes well.

Nurses are very important to the healthcare system and I absolutely am not downplaying their/our role. However, interpreting lead II is not the same as reading an EKG. There are other leads, and most nurses are not good at them (the half that can actually read strips well, cause half cannot do it at all and just copy the previous nurse in non critical care units). The history you fill out in a EHR is a checklist. The one you will be doing as physician is based on your hypothesis, i.e. you have to figure out what is going on (and its not just the H's and T's). The SOAP notes nurses write are a joke, primarily because nursing diagnosis are a joke, NANDA's anyone? http://faculty.mu.edu.sa/public/uploads/1380604673.6151NANDA 2012.pdf Just some Gems in case you forgot:

'Risk for Ineffective Relationship'
'Risk for Chronic Low Self Esteem'
'Readiness for enhanced fluid balance
'Toileting self-care deficit'
'Ineffective airway clearance'
'Risk for Ineffective Peripheral Tissue Perfusion'
'Impaired religiosity'

These things are symptoms at best, and I included some of the better ones! They are nowhere near a real medical diagnosis.

I am not downplaying the role of the nurse, they/we are vital to healthcare. And I personally feel that nursing is disrespected by and large in medical school, but look at how nurses act when they are accepted. No wonder everyone wants to tear us down and then build up. Stop downplaying the role of the physician, you are gonna be one! Easier to do it now from SDN, then it is from faculty when they think your uppity.

NANDA is a joke - didn't get it in nursing school, still don't to this day... Pretty sure they only do it because the hospitals can bill for it or Joint Commission makes them.

I would never downplay the role of a doc, they lead the healthcare world (along with PhDs too). And I will never be uppity.