How long should the lock down last?

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GeneralVeers said:
I don't think it's cavalier. We know this virus disproportionally kills people > 80 and those who have medical problems. It would have been far simpler to divert resources to protect and isolate the proportion of the population at risk, than to attempt to quarantine 100% of the population while destroying the economy. Nursing homes (where this virus kills the most) should have been forced adopt stringent employee testing/tracing and quarantine measures. All other elderly, obese, and sick people should have been advised to self isolate indefinitely. We could have set up programs for meals/essential delivery as well as economic assistance for the elderly who needed it.

Would some elderly or sick people not listen to guidelines and go out and get infected? Yes of course, but it is their right to do that once given the data.

Americans have been so willing to give up basic rights and freedoms it's shocking.
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YES. You’re so freakin’ smart. Instead of spending bazillions of dollars on unemployment for young healthy people who could be working, we could have funneled funds to helping in need elderly people quarantine at home with meal delivery, caregivers checking in on them, etc. For far less cost. It’s unreal.
 
GeneralVeers said:
The Democratic governors have no incentive to re-open anything. Benefits for them to keep things closed as long as possible:

1. They can't be accused of "not doing everything to save lives"
2. They won't be blamed for a second spike in infections
3. The more ego-maniacal ones get to exercise broad control over people
4. It's an excuse to push through other pet projects, like environmental and welfare programs that are unrelated
5. A bad economy makes it less likely for Trump to win

They will only open things up when there is so much public pressure and discontent that the situation is untenable.
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You’re completely right. There are dark political motives behind some of these actions that I can’t ignore. One common theme is Leftists seem to get excited about all the bad news and ignore the good news - it’s like they want this lockdown to continue (if you don’t believe me, check out some of the politics forums and COVID forums on Reddit. You post good news and you get a bunch of comments how you’re wrong because pEOPLe aRe dYiNg). Extreme Leftists like to be able to have a bunch of little things to blame on Trump because they delight in his failings. They want to see the economy crash because they care more about proving Trump is a bad President than they do about the economic wellbeing of the country. They don’t want to see him “winning.” The Democratic Party also revels in the Trump blame party. But also, they also want to exert more control. This is the foot in the door. Getting people to stay home in fear waiting for more direction from the all mighty government. It set a really bad precedent for the US. And more people dependent on the government to “take care of them” equals more votes for Democrats and leads to more control.
 
ERCAT said:
You’re completely right. There are dark political motives behind some of these actions that I can’t ignore. One common theme is Leftists seem to get excited about all the bad news and ignore the good news - it’s like they want this lockdown to continue (if you don’t believe me, check out some of the politics forums and COVID forums on Reddit. You post good news and you get a bunch of comments how you’re wrong because pEOPLe aRe dYiNg). Extreme Leftists like to be able to have a bunch of little things to blame on Trump because they delight in his failings. They want to see the economy crash because they care more about proving Trump is a bad President than they do about the economic wellbeing of the country. They don’t want to see him “winning.” The Democratic Party also revels in the Trump blame party. But also, they also want to exert more control. This is the foot in the door. Getting people to stay home in fear waiting for more direction from the all mighty government. It set a really bad precedent for the US. And more people dependent on the government to “take care of them” equals more votes for Democrats and leads to more control.
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You are out of your mind. the things you concoct in your head

giphy.gif
 
nimbus said:
How exactly do these old and sick people self isolate? Where do they do this? Many of them were already very isolated in nursing homes and we know how that went. It’s not like they were going to Disneyland and bars and Costco.
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Nursing homes are not isolated in that way, just from their family

meals areoften in group settings and those low trained staff in and out of every room don’t isolate
 
ERCAT said:
You’re completely right. There are dark political motives behind some of these actions that I can’t ignore. One common theme is Leftists seem to get excited about all the bad news and ignore the good news - it’s like they want this lockdown to continue (if you don’t believe me, check out some of the politics forums and COVID forums on Reddit. You post good news and you get a bunch of comments how you’re wrong because pEOPLe aRe dYiNg). Extreme Leftists like to be able to have a bunch of little things to blame on Trump because they delight in his failings. They want to see the economy crash because they care more about proving Trump is a bad President than they do about the economic wellbeing of the country. They don’t want to see him “winning.” The Democratic Party also revels in the Trump blame party. But also, they also want to exert more control. This is the foot in the door. Getting people to stay home in fear waiting for more direction from the all mighty government. It set a really bad precedent for the US. And more people dependent on the government to “take care of them” equals more votes for Democrats and leads to more control.
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images.jpeg
 
sb247 said:
Nursing homes are not isolated in that way, just from their family

meals areoften in group settings and those low trained staff in and out of every room don’t isolate
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Right. So how and where do they self isolate?
 
Torsion said:
I'm thinking there was some serious sarcasm at work in the original post.
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I..... don't think so. I think GV and ERCat really do think in this way. Very easy to MMQB. Sad when physicians and those in the medical field continue to equate this to the flu and other obvious inaccuracies. I don't think the flu kills 70k people in our country in a 3 month period.

Yes maybe it's not the end of the world as we know it, and yes we need to figure out a way to re-open in a safe manner, but to say we should've just followed sweden's strategy (which has lead them to have 7x deaths per capita compared to their Norway and Finland neighbors as of today on world o meter) is incredibly stupid, IMO. Others may disagree and that is their right.
 
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nimbus said:
Right. So how and where do they self isolate?
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That’s a different question, you had said they were already isolated. I don’t think they were. Their only chance to isolate would be for all nursing homes to have gone to full covid precautions (not gonna happen) or go home with your family
 
sb247 said:
That’s a different question, you had said they were already isolated. I don’t think they were. Their only chance to isolate would be for all nursing homes to have gone to full covid precautions (not gonna happen) or go home with your family
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That is THE question. I was replying to a post that said we should open things up while the old and sick self isolate. I was pointing out that a lot of old and sick people are already isolated from society at large in nursing homes and that hasn’t turned out well for them. I was also asking how we can isolate old and sick people in real life if not in nursing homes. A lot of people are proposing that the old and sick self isolate while we go about life. I’m asking how.
 
evilbooyaa said:
I..... don't think so. I think GV and ERCat really do think in this way. Very easy to MMQB. Sad when physicians and those in the medical field continue to equate this to the flu and other obvious inaccuracies. I don't think the flu kills 70k people in our country in a 3 month period.

Yes maybe it's not the end of the world as we know it, and yes we need to figure out a way to re-open in a safe manner, but to say we should've just followed sweden's strategy (which has lead them to have 7x deaths per capita compared to their Norway and Finland neighbors as of today on world o meter) is incredibly stupid, IMO. Others may disagree and that is their right.
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I wonder what the flu mortality numbers would look like without the vaccine?

Wasn't the point of all of this to flatten the curve? If you do that, the area under the curve shouldn't change. It was preventing the peak that overwhelmed hospitals like Italy. If Sweden's hospitals aren't overwhelmed, then mortality numbers aren't really a useful comparison.
 
nimbus said:
That is THE question. I was replying to a post that said we should open things up while the old and sick self isolate. I was pointing out that a lot of old and sick people are already isolated from society at large in nursing homes and that hasn’t turned out well for them. I was also asking how we can isolate old and sick people in real life if not in nursing homes. A lot of people are proposing that the old and sick self isolate while we go about life. I’m asking how.
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I was disagreeing with the premise that they are actually isolated (in the covid prevention sense). They are largely forgotten by family but not isolated in terms of disease spread
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
I wonder what the flu mortality numbers would look like without the vaccine?

Wasn't the point of all of this to flatten the curve? If you do that, the area under the curve shouldn't change. It was preventing the peak that overwhelmed hospitals like Italy. If Sweden's hospitals aren't overwhelmed, then mortality numbers aren't really a useful comparison.
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and now as the denominator seems to appear soooooo much bigger than we thought, the actual death rate is much lower
 
nimbus said:
That is THE question. I was replying to a post that said we should open things up while the old and sick self isolate. I was pointing out that a lot of old and sick people are already isolated from society at large in nursing homes and that hasn’t turned out well for them. I was also asking how we can isolate old and sick people in real life if not in nursing homes. A lot of people are proposing that the old and sick self isolate while we go about life. I’m asking how.
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This is important I feel maybe we can't. Without some sort of immunity (herd or vaccine) or medical treatment there may be no way to decrease overall mortality significantly lets say over the course of 5 years. I am sure slowing the spread kept some places from being overwhelmed and saved lives; beyond that who knows. Is New Zealand just postponing the inevitable? The total mortality from Sweden vs. other Nordic Countries over 5 years would be interesting for future pandemics.
 
evilbooyaa said:
I..... don't think so. I think GV and ERCat really do think in this way. Very easy to MMQB. Sad when physicians and those in the medical field continue to equate this to the flu and other obvious inaccuracies. I don't think the flu kills 70k people in our country in a 3 month period.

Yes maybe it's not the end of the world as we know it, and yes we need to figure out a way to re-open in a safe manner, but to say we should've just followed sweden's strategy (which has lead them to have 7x deaths per capita compared to their Norway and Finland neighbors as of today on world o meter) is incredibly stupid, IMO. Others may disagree and that is their right.
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How is my thinking wrong? How can you explain the divide between Republican and Democrat governors on re-opening? There's often a vast difference in their policies in neighboring states with similar COVID demographics. If you have another explanation I'm all for it. If we had the flu without a vaccine, it likely would kill 100K people per year. It did in 1969, and the government did not lock down anything, force social distancing, and even let Woodstock proceed.

As far as Sweden, I still agree with their approach. Of course they will have more cases and deaths initially as you are going to have increased rate of spread. This isn't necessarily bad. Assuming that their hospitals don't get overwhelmed, they should peak more quickly and then have a rapid descent.

We won't know for sure if Sweden's approach is correct or not for several months. Theoretically if the death rate is really 0.1% and we are all going to reach herd immunity anyway, then their approach will be shown superior.
 
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VA Hopeful Dr said:
I wonder what the flu mortality numbers would look like without the vaccine?

Wasn't the point of all of this to flatten the curve? If you do that, the area under the curve shouldn't change. It was preventing the peak that overwhelmed hospitals like Italy. If Sweden's hospitals aren't overwhelmed, then mortality numbers aren't really a useful comparison.
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Yes, and once we have a coronavirus vaccine, then I won't worry about coronavirus to the same extent (similar to what we do for the flu in contemporary times). Again, this is 70k WITH social distancing, quarantine, stay-at-home, etc.. Over THREE months. I don't really buy how 100k over a full year with zero social distancing is 'basically the same'. Yes, if we did social distancing for flu the numbers would go down as well.

But, fair enough on the second point, I get what you're saying and it doesn't appear Swedish hospitals have been overwhelmed. We'll have to see about where Sweden lands up.

All this being said, there is an in-between between 'fully functional' and 'overhwlmed like Italy' in hotspots. Some hospitals in NY/NJ, due to shortage of PPE, concern for staff infection, and low likelihood of clinical success, are heavily using things like 2-physician DNR for futility of care in COVID-19 patients. Yes, mostly on older patients. However, at least one hospital (that I know somebody at, as I saw the actual rules because I didn't believe it) developed rules at the beginning due to PPE shortages that any COVID-19 + patient or PUA who was in asystole was not to be intubated or coded. VFib was to get electrical and medicinal help but no tube, no compressions.

@GeneralVeers see above for the whataboutisms about flu vaccines, and the point I'll concede about Sweden that we'll have to wait and see.

In regards to the political sides - yes, Republicans are going to be more likely to do what Trump suggests while Democrats are less likely to do what Trump suggests. I will not argue that.
But, to suggest that Democrats are locking their states NOT because of their concerns for the safety of their constituents (and have a different cut point of acceptable deaths vs economic damage) but because they specifically want to target trump so he doesn't get elected is the conspiracy theory I'm talking about.
There is no way to convince you as it's a locked mindset that will not respond to the lack of evidence. Democrats are not dumb enough to say that they are being obstructionist (in the regard of re-opening their states) SIMPLY as a political maneuver.
 
evilbooyaa said:
I..... don't think so. I think GV and ERCat really do think in this way. Very easy to MMQB. Sad when physicians and those in the medical field continue to equate this to the flu and other obvious inaccuracies. I don't think the flu kills 70k people in our country in a 3 month period.

Yes maybe it's not the end of the world as we know it, and yes we need to figure out a way to re-open in a safe manner, but to say we should've just followed sweden's strategy (which has lead them to have 7x deaths per capita compared to their Norway and Finland neighbors as of today on world o meter) is incredibly stupid, IMO. Others may disagree and that is their right.
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I think Veers and Cat think completely differently. Veers seems to understand that this is likely to be fatal to hundreds of thousands, but simply thinks that's its an acceptable outcome. Cat seems divorced from reality--I think she was on here a few weeks ago hyperventilating about not getting a new N95 for every patient encounter or something. She needs to get back to facebook.

The problem with the whole "this isn't the flu" notion, is that, while it has important clinical differences from influenza, epidemiological it likely is equivalent in impact to a bad pandemic flu strain. We were all lulled into a sense of complacency by the 2009 flu pandemic, which ended up being extraordinarily mild (0.01% IFR). It turns out that a bad flu pandemic, is really f'ing bad.
 
turkeyjerky said:
I think Veers and Cat think completely differently. Veers seems to understand that this is likely to be fatal to hundreds of thousands, but simply thinks that's its an acceptable outcome. Cat seems divorced from reality--I think she was on here a few weeks ago hyperventilating about not getting a new N95 for every patient encounter or something. She needs to get back to facebook.

The problem with the whole "this isn't the flu" notion, is that, while it has important clinical differences from influenza, epidemiological it likely is equivalent in impact to a bad pandemic flu strain. We were all lulled into a sense of complacency by the 2009 flu pandemic, which ended up being extraordinarily mild (0.01% IFR). It turns out that a bad flu pandemic, is really f'ing bad.
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I'd generally agree with your above assesment.

What the two sides are disagreeing on seems to be what the end point of this virus is:

Viewpoint 1: We can limit the number of total people infected, and therefore number of deaths until the virus somehow disappears or we have a vaccine

Viewpoint 2: Everyone who can be infected, will be infected (over the next 2 years) and it's generally futile to try and prevent deaths as long as the hospitals aren't overwhelmed
 
GeneralVeers said:
I'd generally agree with your above assesment.

What the two sides are disagreeing on seems to be what the end point of this virus is:

Viewpoint 1: We can limit the number of total people infected, and therefore number of deaths until the virus somehow disappears or we have a vaccine

Viewpoint 2: Everyone who can be infected, will be infected (over the next 2 years) and it's generally futile to try and prevent deaths as long as the hospitals aren't overwhelmed
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I don't see how anyone, who even has one ounce of intellectual capacity, can possibly agree with viewpoint #1. It's like the entire world forgot that the point was not to overwhelm hospitals and that's where a large majority of the country is at. Sitting around with empty hospitals, scaring people to death (quite literally at times).

#2 is the only outcome. I'm going to get it (or already had it). You're going to get it. The majority of us are going to get it or have already had it. They're already talking about reclosing because of the new projections. For what?
 
Rekt said:
#2 is the only outcome. I'm going to get it (or already had it). You're going to get it. The majority of us are going to get it or have already had it. They're already talking about reclosing because of the new projections. For what?
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For no rational reason. Simply because politicians are afraid of getting blamed, and therefore not re-elected.
 
Rekt said:
I don't see how anyone, who even has one ounce of intellectual capacity, can possibly agree with viewpoint #1. It's like the entire world forgot that the point was not to overwhelm hospitals and that's where a large majority of the country is at. Sitting around with empty hospitals, scaring people to death (quite literally at times).

#2 is the only outcome. I'm going to get it (or already had it). You're going to get it. The majority of us are going to get it or have already had it. They're already talking about reclosing because of the new projections. For what?
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The stupid promise that the govt can stop all the bad things from ever happening if they just have enough power
 
Agree with above. It looks like in even in some of the best case scenario's we develop a decent drug that will be in short supply or develop a vaccine that will be in short supply and will need at least 6 months to cook. Either of these puts supply into chaotic demand.
 
sb247 said:
The stupid promise that the govt can stop all the bad things from ever happening if they just have enough power
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Exactly...at one time neighbors considered each other as allies and the government getting lots of power was scary. It's ironic that this virus has caused a nation to be more afraid of their own neighbor than the government.
 
yeasports said:
Agree with above. It looks like in even in some of the best case scenario's we develop a decent drug that will be in short supply or develop a vaccine that will be in short supply and will need at least 6 months to cook. Either of these puts supply into chaotic demand.
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And then if any side effects pop up 10yrs from now people will scream that it wasn’t tested enough
 
GeneralVeers said:
I'd generally agree with your above assesment.

What the two sides are disagreeing on seems to be what the end point of this virus is:

Viewpoint 1: We can limit the number of total people infected, and therefore number of deaths until the virus somehow disappears or we have a vaccine

Viewpoint 2: Everyone who can be infected, will be infected (over the next 2 years) and it's generally futile to try and prevent deaths as long as the hospitals aren't overwhelmed
Click to expand...

I am in the camp of viewpoint 2, so seems like we agree on something. I just think gentle re-opening will ensure that hospitals won't get overwhelmed. Once we have a few states do it succesfully without having to re-institute lock down we'll be OK.
 
evilbooyaa said:
I am in the camp of viewpoint 2, so seems like we agree on something. I just think gentle re-opening will ensure that hospitals won't get overwhelmed. Once we have a few states do it succesfully without having to re-institute lock down we'll be OK.
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It all depends on how "gentle". Realistically restaurants need about 2 weeks lead time to get supplies and hire staff. You could start by opening up all retail immediately, with restaurants/bars two weeks later.

The governors are looking at the wrong metrics. They are worried about "spikes" in infections. These are largely irrelevant to policy. They should be meeting with hospital system CEOs daily to assess the bed capacity. Only when that becomes a concern should they consider re-imposing restrictions.

I think a great measure to force hospitals to keep capacity would be threat to take away "elective procedures" again if the numbers get too high. This would encourage hospital admin to staff up on nurses and keep beds open or make extra beds available so they don't lose out on the revenue.
 
On this point I mostly agree with you. Focus should be on making sure we're no-where close to being overwhelmed, although given the lag time, we somewhat need to react to a large spike in cases (if percentage wise they are sufficiently high to become hospitalizations later on) because the hospitalizations come later. If we wait until the (rare situation) that hospitals are overwhelmed (or close to) to re-initiate action it will lead to another painful spell similar to what NYC had.

I do think that waiting for a consecutive 14-day period of 'decreasing cases per day' as is being required in many cities is missing the forest for the trees.
 
evilbooyaa said:
On this point I mostly agree with you. Focus should be on making sure we're no-where close to being overwhelmed, although given the lag time, we somewhat need to react to a large spike in cases (if percentage wise they are sufficiently high to become hospitalizations later on) because the hospitalizations come later. If we wait until the (rare situation) that hospitals are overwhelmed (or close to) to re-initiate action it will lead to another painful spell similar to what NYC had.

I do think that waiting for a consecutive 14-day period of 'decreasing cases per day' as is being required in many cities is missing the forest for the trees.
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The lag time is exactly the problem. Should a spike in cases promp re-closure for an increase in hospitalizations that might not come? Right now we have such excess capacity in the hospitals that I think we could afford to wait until admissions increase significantly before taking drastic action again.

Remember, the longer we stay in lockdown, the more the equation shifts in favor of opening up the economy completely.
 
I got my hair cut today.

Was told to stay in my car until my gal (stylist? I don't know the correct term; apologies) texted me to approach the door.
I got the text, and the door was locked.
I was let in, and was told to go wash my hands in the men's room (I would have done so anyways, because I had to pee.... finished my coffee waiting in the car and browsing reddit).
Was wearing my own mask when I walked in, as per the salon's recommendations.
My mask promptly broke :18 seconds into my visit (the ear-strap broke from the face-square).
I was asked to 'hold it in front of my face as best I could' by the salon-director.

I spoke up at this point.
"STOP! people."

Six people in the salon. Two customers, two stylists. Two 'Managers'.

Listen; this silly mask isn't a "Magic Disney Spell!" that turns pumpkins into carriages and protects you from evil viruses!

You've all been exposed. Dozens of times a day.
I work in the ER down the road. I swim in it. I likely have had it for months, and likely have had immunity. Long before we ever knew it was a "threat."

"Cope."


My stylist took off her mask, cut my hair, and said: "Thanks. Nobody else here will listen to common sense, but they'll listen to the ER doc that takes care of their kids for their boo-boos."
 
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RF, the masks and "social distancing" are just activities for the regular public to do in order to make them think they have some control. In reality, just good hand hygiene would probably get 90% of the job done.
 
GeneralVeers said:
RF, the masks and "social distancing" are just activities for the regular public to do in order to make them think they have some control. In reality, just good hand hygiene would probably get 90% of the job done.
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Full agreement, hence why I called it a "Disney Magic Spell".
But Dear GOD! If you disobey the mask-and-glove-gods...
Then WOE be UPON to you.

Its bad, amigo.

The KARENS are everywhere.

I can only slay so many Karens.
 
RustedFox said:
Full agreement, hence why I called it a "Disney Magic Spell".
But Dear GOD! If you disobey the mask-and-glove-gods...
Then WOE be UPON to you.

Its bad, amigo.

The KARENS are everywhere.

I can only slay so many Karens.
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But you know what?

Here's the sad truth.

Karen is eveywhere.

They KNOW what is RIGHT! and THEY WILL dictate how things happen.

Galt's Gulch, dude.


See you there.
 
Hopefully Karen calls the Bill Diblasio snitch line, cuz I'm not wearing mask and gloves in public.

I laughed at the TX mandate to wear full gloves in the gym. Don't they realize gloves are worse for hygiene because it makes hand gel/washing much less frequent?
 
evilbooyaa said:
On this point I mostly agree with you. Focus should be on making sure we're no-where close to being overwhelmed, although given the lag time, we somewhat need to react to a large spike in cases (if percentage wise they are sufficiently high to become hospitalizations later on) because the hospitalizations come later. If we wait until the (rare situation) that hospitals are overwhelmed (or close to) to re-initiate action it will lead to another painful spell similar to what NYC had.

I do think that waiting for a consecutive 14-day period of 'decreasing cases per day' as is being required in many cities is missing the forest for the trees.
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Agreed. I am in a semi-hot area and we have not had the testing capacity. As we are increasing capacity of course the numbers are going to go up. If we quit testing or went down in capacity the numbers would go down.
The only argument for more testing that I have heard that makes sense (radio lab decent listen) is if we had enough capacity to test everyone everyday with a 5 minute test. But...this is a pipe dream.
 
yeasports said:
Agreed. I am in a semi-hot area and we have not had the testing capacity. As we are increasing capacity of course the numbers are going to go up. If we quit testing or went down in capacity the numbers would go down.
The only argument for more testing that I have heard that makes sense (radio lab decent listen) is if we had enough capacity to test everyone everyday with a 5 minute test. But...this is a pipe dream.
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Beyond epidemiology there isn’t much reason to test anyone who doesn’t need hospitalization. Orher than that, pretty much don’t get in close quarters and use hand hygiene
 
yeasports said:
@RustedFox
I love your honesty. It seems you keep looking and expecting reason or intelligence in common society and (hilariously) explode when you find it is lacking. Yet you keep looking.
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Thanks.
A lot of my present frustration is magnified by living in Florida for the time being. It used to be great. Now, I can't stand it anymore.

I walked my dog yesterday at 10 AM. Just a little walk; maybe three-quarters of a mile.
I was soaked and had to change all my clothes when I got back to the house.
Yep. Its that humid. I'm not a lardass that can't walk. Its disgustingly humid.
A day above 85 degrees is gross.
 
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VA Hopeful Dr said:
I wonder what the flu mortality numbers would look like without the vaccine?
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My state, Texas, reports a little over 7,000 deaths from the flu between the end of September 2019 to the end of April 2020. Total covid deaths are just less than 1,000 since March. If we do a monthly average, the flu is worse than covid (1,000 deaths/month over 7 months for the flu and 500 deaths/month over 2 months for covid).

Covid is scary, but if we look a the numbers, we didn't shut down for the flu. Shutting down for covid made sense to me at the time because there were so many unknowns, there was no immunity and there was no treatment/vaccine. But now, I have to seriously question why, if this is our response to covid, we don't shut down for the flu, an infectious disease that we have some immunity to and a vaccine for and yet still kills more people.
 
TJRock said:
My state, Texas, reports a little over 7,000 deaths from the flu between the end of September 2019 to the end of April 2020. Total covid deaths are just less than 1,000 since March. If we do a monthly average, the flu is worse than covid (1,000 deaths/month over 7 months for the flu and 500 deaths/month over 2 months for covid).

Covid is scary, but if we look a the numbers, we didn't shut down for the flu. Shutting down for covid made sense to me at the time because there were so many unknowns, there was no immunity and there was no treatment/vaccine. But now, I have to seriously question why, if this is our response to covid, we don't shut down for the flu, an infectious disease that we have some immunity to and a vaccine for and yet still kills more people.
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Because the flu doesn't overwhelm hospitals. This thing has been shown to do exactly that.
 
turkeyjerky said:
But but but Heart disease and Cancer kill more than flu and 'rona combined. We don't shut down society for those
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I mean, that kind of comparison is the natural response to those who have forgotten why we started all these measures to begin with.
 
Mr. Hat said:
Correct me if I'm remembering wrong, we started these measures to begin with to "flatten the curve" and avoid overwhelming hospitals/ give them time to prepare. Sooo......
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That's exactly the point I'm making
 
I overheard someone who is obviously an anti-science, right-wing conspiracy-theorist nut, implying the shutdown was for naught. He claimed we told people to go home and isolate and destroyed the economy to keep people safe. Then he said, what actually happened is they they went home, isolated and still got COVID and died. His name is Andrew Cuomo:

"'Overwhelmingly, the people were at home,' he added. 'We thought maybe they were taking public transportation, and we’ve taken special precautions on public transportation, but actually no, because these people were literally at home.'
Cuomo said nearly 84% of the hospitalized cases were people who were not commuting to work through car services, personal cars, public transit or walking."
 
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Birdstrike said:
I overheard someone who is obviously an anti-science, right wing nut, implying the shutdown was for naught. He claimed we told people to go home and isolate and destroyed the economy to keep people safe, but what actually happened, is they they went home, isolated and still got COVID. His name is Andrew Cuomo:

"'Overwhelmingly, the people were at home,' he added. 'We thought maybe they were taking public transportation, and we’ve taken special precautions on public transportation, but actually no, because these people were literally at home.'
Cuomo said nearly 84% of the hospitalized cases were people who were not commuting to work through car services, personal cars, public transit or walking."
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Such is NYC.
 
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