How long should the lock down last?

[Birdstrike]

---

Members don't see this ad.

NEJM, 7/29/20, "REOPEN IN-PERSON SCHOOL 5-DAYS PER WEEK"

-Open 5-days per week
-Remote-learning sucks, hybrid-learning does, too, worst for most vulnerable
-Multiple nations have open schools during pandemic
-All that took reasonable precautions did well
-Schools are essential services
- >82% of teachers are <55-years-old, low risk

Full article and how to do it, here in NEJM.

 

[Birdstrike]

Ok thanks for sharing. I stand corrected.
My understanding was that most schools were closed in the US. I stand corrected as I realize not every area did things the same. My apologies as I wasn’t just trying to make things up. I knew daycares were open, but didn’t think most areas had places open for older kids/teens, but thanks for correcting me. If most places weren’t closed in your area then that’s great to have a better understanding. Hopefully the data from this here becomes more clear with time.

Has there been any data in regards to mask wearing vs not mask wearing required for older students for these places that were open? I know some schools aren’t requiring masks for students and that has some of my friends nervous, especially the ones who teach larger high school classes. It’d be nice if could share any data with them to help them feel more comfortable.

The answers to these questions are spelled out in detail (who kept schools open, what worked, what didn’t) in the NEJM article I posted, one post above. Click on link in blue.

 

[AMEHigh]

The answers to these questions are spelled out in detail (who kept schools open, what worked, what didn’t) in the NEJM article I posted, one post above. Click on link in blue.

Great thanks!
I looked through the references, which study has masks vs no masks so I can share?

 

[MediMike]

NEJM, 7/29/20, "REOPEN IN-PERSON SCHOOL 5-DAYS PER WEEK"

-Open 5-days per week
-Remote-learning sucks, hybrid-learning does, too, worst for most vulnerable
-Multiple nations have open schools during pandemic
-All that took reasonable precautions did well
-Schools are essential services
- >82% of teachers are <55-years-old, low risk

Full article and how to do it, here in NEJM.

Great article and I agree with the vast majority it.
- Taiwan and Sweden kept schools open. The rest closed down and reopened when cases were extremely low and under control, what should the cutoff be for reopening vs closing down again for a region? Or is it full steam ahead regardless?

- Any thoughts on the higher transmission rates amongst teenagers? Could it be that they actually lick each other's faces more than kindergartners?

 

[Birdstrike]

Great thanks!
I looked through the references, which study has masks vs no masks so I can share?

I didn't read through all 33 reference articles, so I don't know specifically which countries required which levels of mask wearing. But I think the most pertinent portion of the article to get at what you're asking is to reopen schools with the precautions Denmark, Finland, Belgium, Austria, Taiwan, and Singapore took, and not like Israel with crowded classrooms and minimal precautions.

"Case numbers have continued to decrease in Denmark, which reopened elementary schools in April and middle and high schools in May, albeit under strict social distancing rules. Nor have school reopenings led to increased case counts in Finland, Belgium, Austria, Taiwan, or Singapore, although, again, schools in these countries have taken substantial extra precautions and are only slowly lifting restrictions on activities and group size. Israel offers a cautionary counterexample, since a recent case resurgence there may be linked to early high school reopenings in May, with crowded classrooms and minimal precautions in place; a clear causal role for schools in this resurgence, however, has not been demonstrated." - NEJM 7/29/20

 

[AMEHigh]

I didn't read through all 33 reference articles, so I don't know specifically which countries required which levels of mask wearing. But I think the most pertinent portion of the article to get at what you're asking is to reopen schools with the precautions Denmark, Finland, Belgium, Austria, Taiwan, and Singapore took, and not like Israel with crowded classrooms and minimal precautions.

"Case numbers have continued to decrease in Denmark, which reopened elementary schools in April and middle and high schools in May, albeit under strict social distancing rules. Nor have school reopenings led to increased case counts in Finland, Belgium, Austria, Taiwan, or Singapore, although, again, schools in these countries have taken substantial extra precautions and are only slowly lifting restrictions on activities and group size. Israel offers a cautionary counterexample, since a recent case resurgence there may be linked to early high school reopenings in May, with crowded classrooms and minimal precautions in place; a clear causal role for schools in this resurgence, however, has not been demonstrated." - NEJM 7/29/20

Great, will share.
I know most of my friends are worried in places like Texas where cases are high, but they're not mandating masks for older students in classrooms. I don't think this article will help ease their minds unfortunately, but at least it's something. I don't see anything about US data though, so hopefully we get that over the next few months.

I'll look at the countries with the data. From my understanding about Taiwan and Singapore, their numbers were pretty low when schools reopened. I do think we might see differences here since numbers are higher where schools are reopening with no mask mandates.

 

[Birdstrike]

Great, will share.
I know most of my friends are worried in places like Texas where cases are high, but they're not mandating masks for older students in classrooms.... I do think we might see differences here since numbers are higher where schools are reopening with no mask mandates.

In my opinion, reopening schools 5-days per week in-person while case counts are high, then not mandating masks in school, is dumb. As someone that spends half of my working time wearing a mask anyways, I see it as tiny a price to pay to get life back to normal, as there ever was. Even the anxiety reducing effects of having everyone agree to have the kids and teachers wear masks, is worth it by itself, not to mention any potential reduction in spread of infection.

In my opinion, reopening with reasonable infection control measures, with the idea that once you've done that, teachers' risk is no higher than any other essential workers, makes sense and is persuasive. That's a much easier sell, than reopening while telling teachers you're going to put minimal or no precautions in place, which is a persuasion fail. Also, allowing a parental opt-out with a 100% remote learning option helps greatly with persuasion, by eliminating resistance from the most vehemently opposed to the in-school options.

If we want this to actually work, we have to persuade a majority of people that the way forward makes sense. Just being right, isn't enough, if you fail to persuade an adequate number of people that you are right.

 

[miacomet]

There is a lot of resistance in my community from, interestingly, both the extremely well off and the very poor. The first group seem more interested in 25k pandemic pods and homeschooling; the latter have concerns that their kids are being pushed back into unsafe schools since their schools are under-resourced to begin with.

Our district is planning on opening five days a week, including high school, with an online-only option, as well; I'm not sure how teachers are supposed to do both. 38% of parents are opting out of in-person school. It will be interesting, and I give it a month before things close again.

 

[Birdstrike]

38% of parents are opting out of in-person school.

38% might be just enough to thin out in-person school to a better level.

As an aside, our district is making the remote learning group commit for a whole semester. No in, out, coming, going between in-person and remote. I think that's good.

My wife just asked me: How many of the teachers that have been insisting kids should not go back to school, will end up sending their kid?

Good question.

Also, how many of them will get themselves signed up for remote teaching, then still send their own kids?

Lol. It's going to be interesting.

 

[AMEHigh]

In my opinion, reopening schools 5-days per week in-person while case counts are high, then not mandating masks in school, is dumb. As someone that spends half of my working time wearing a mask anyways, I see it as tiny a price to pay to get life back to normal, as there ever was. Even the anxiety reducing effects of having everyone agree to have the kids and teachers wear masks, is worth it by itself, not to mention any potential reduction in spread of infection.

In my opinion, reopening with reasonable infection control measures, with the idea that once you've done that, teachers' risk is no higher than any other essential workers, makes sense and is persuasive. That's a much easier sell, than reopening while telling teachers you're going to put minimal or no precautions in place, which is a persuasion fail. Also, allowing a parental opt-out with a 100% remote learning option helps greatly with persuasion, by eliminating resistance from the most vehemently opposed to the in-school options.

If we want this to actually work, we have to persuade a majority of people that the way forward makes sense. Just being right, isn't enough, if you fail to persuade an adequate number of people that you are right.

Yep. Unfortunately it seems there are a lot of dumb leaders out there. Hopefully things pan out well for the teachers, staff and students that are going back in to environments with high numbers and no mask mandates or other resources they need.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Yep. Unfortunately it seems there are a lot of dumb leaders out there. Hopefully things pan out well for the teachers, staff and students that are going back in to environments with high numbers and no mask mandates or other resources they need.

The evidence says they will be just fine, and students will be better off.

 

[AMEHigh]

The evidence says they will be just fine, and students will be better off.

Just curious, what evidence are you referring to?

I truly hope that’s the case, but it seems like hundreds to thousands of people gathering indoors for 8 hours a day without masks is what experts are recommending against around the world. Morbidity of covid seems to be different than we’ve seen from other respiratory viruses. But if there is other evidence that large gatherings indoors without masks is the recommendation please share so I can share with my friends who are teachers.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Just curious, what evidence are you referring to?

I truly hope that’s the case, but it seems like hundreds to thousands of people gathering indoors for 8 hours a day without masks is what experts are recommending against around the world. Morbidity of covid seems to be different than we’ve seen from other respiratory viruses. But if there is other evidence that large gatherings indoors without masks is the recommendation please share so I can share with my friends who are teachers.

I won't quote all the studies, but Iceland, Sweden, UK, Australia, and Austria all did studies showing that children do not pass this on to adults. In fact in most of the studies, they couldn't find one case where a young child passed it on to a teacher.

 

[AMEHigh]

I won't quote all the studies, but Iceland, Sweden, UK, Australia, and Austria all did studies showing that children do not pass this on to adults. In fact in most of the studies, they couldn't find one case where a young child passed it on to a teacher.

Yeah I read the article that Birdstrike posted. It talked about recommendations in regards to having low community transmission and social distancing in place. It seems like most of those countries had those things. I specifically asked about evidence in regards to hundreds to thousands of people gathering indoors for 8 hours at a time without masks. Everything I’ve read seems to point to the fact that teenagers physiologically have same viral burden as adults so pass it on at same rates. Teachers are adults and are going to be around each other as well. That’s why I was asking about evidence that shows large gatherings indoors without masks are recommended in areas with high community spread since that is what is planned for schools in some areas.

 

[Rekt]

Yeah I read the article that Birdstrike posted. It talked about recommendations in regards to having low community transmission and social distancing in place. It seems like most of those countries had those things. I specifically asked about evidence in regards to hundreds to thousands of people gathering indoors for 8 hours at a time without masks. Everything I’ve read seems to point to the fact that teenagers physiologically have same viral burden as adults so pass it on at same rates. Teachers are adults and are going to be around each other as well. That’s why I was asking about evidence that shows large gatherings indoors without masks are recommended in areas with high community spread since that is what is planned for schools in some areas.

If a teacher visits her grandma, is that our fault? I'm curious for what you're going for. You're obviously trying to shut schools down forever.

I'll go ahead and be the ass hole. My kids are important. Maybe you have kids, I don't know, but I certainly know that learning from home is so far from a realistic option that it's not even a consideration to me, or anyone I know. 80-90% voted for normal in class learning. It's infinitely worth the risk for me to send my kids to school. The risk of them being harmed is incredibly small. Sure, maybe I could be dead a month after school starts, but I'm as healthy as possible and I view getting infected less likely than from work. I don't do anything beyond gym and work and I don't visit family so I don't put anyone at risk beyond their own risk theyre taking on their own.

Teachers staying in their positions that have normal in class learning are accepting a risk of possible infection. Just as I am seeing 20+ patients a shift, just as the old lady scanning your groceries, just as the dude keeping your power and pipes running etc etc etc

 

[AMEHigh]

If a teacher visits her grandma, is that our fault? I'm curious for what you're going for. You're obviously trying to shut schools down forever.

I'll go ahead and be the ass hole. My kids are important. Maybe you have kids, I don't know, but I certainly know that learning from home is so far from a realistic option that it's not even a consideration to me, or anyone I know. 80-90% voted for normal in class learning. It's infinitely worth the risk for me to send my kids to school. The risk of them being harmed is incredibly small. Sure, maybe I could be dead a month after school starts, but I'm as healthy as possible and I view getting infected less likely than from work. I don't do anything beyond gym and work and I don't visit family so I don't put anyone at risk beyond their own risk theyre taking on their own.

Teachers staying in their positions that have normal in class learning are accepting a risk of possible infection. Just as I am seeing 20+ patients a shift, just as the old lady scanning your groceries, just as the dude keeping your power and pipes running etc etc etc

Nope, don’t think schools should be shut down forever.

I think schools should open if they have low community transmission (definitely not in places that have 20%+ positives, experts are saying below 5% is ideal) try to social distance and mandate masks, especially for all staff and kids over age 10. I think masks are especially important in schools with over 1000 students. But that’s not what is happening in some places in areas where there is high community transmission, hospitals are very busy, etc. So I was asking for data in regards to those scenarios so I could share it.

I know there are places that aren’t mandating masks and I certainly wouldn’t feel comfortable being a doctor or a grocery store clerk or a factory worker with many people not wearing masks either. I’m comfortable going to work because all staff and everyone that comes in to our building is wearing a mask with no questions asked, same at stores. So I certainly don’t blame anyone, especially a teacher who doesn’t want to spend all day inside with 100s to 1000s of people without masks on.

I hope that as schools open cases begin to go down and community spread doesn’t get worse. I certainly don’t want to relive April and May over again.

 

[AMEHigh]

Oh and what I was going for...literally what I asked for....
Evidence in regards to indoor gatherings at schools of hundreds to thousands of people without masks or social distancing and how covid does or does not spread. Like I said I wanted to give my friends who live in areas where schools are opening in those conditions information that they've been looking for. Nowhere in there did I say I wanted all schools shut down forever. I was looking for that information.

I think in my area since our transmission rate is low we're not going to get any better, so might as well open, but since there are over a million kids and social distancing isn't really possible, I do think we'd see increased spread. Thankfully masks are mandated, but I still think we'd see uptick in cases and deaths once schools opened, but I don't think that means they should be continually shut down. That is my opinion.

Since schools have opened up this past week and will continue to open up here in the US I guess we will get our information over the next few months and I hope cases and deaths continue to go down.

 

[Birdstrike]

CDC Director Dr. Robert Redfield, on coronavirus mortality rate for those age <18: "The risk per 100,000, so far, you know, into the outbreak, six months into it, is, in fact, we’re looking at about .1 per 100,000. So another way to say that, it’s one in a million."

 

[Birdstrike]

Quebec reports its spring school reopening was a success, looks forward to fall:

"53 students and teachers have been diagnosed with COVID-19, but... the vast majority of those cases occurred outside the classroom, and there were no serious illnesses."

Quebec's experiment to open schools amid COVID-19 was successful, education experts say

The federation's president, Nicolas Prevost, said things went relatively smoothly in the schools, though maintaining physical distancing on school buses was a chall…

nationalpost.com

 

[CheGuevaraMD]

SARS-CoV-2 Transmission and Infection Among Attendees of an...

Limited data are available about transmission of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), among youths. During June 17–20, an overnight camp in Georgia (camp A)...

www.cdc.gov

76% of kids at a GA summer camp were infected, even with precautions.

In-person school isn’t happening this fall, or if it does happen, it will be soon be shut down.

People need to come to terms with this reality and move on.

 

[Rekt]

SARS-CoV-2 Transmission and Infection Among Attendees of an...

Limited data are available about transmission of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), among youths. During June 17–20, an overnight camp in Georgia (camp A)...

www.cdc.gov

76% of kids at a GA summer camp were infected, even with precautions.

In-person school isn’t happening this fall, or if it does happen, it will be soon be shut down.

People need to come to terms with this reality and move on.

Oh look this same article posted 100x that fails to mention how any of them are doing aka they're all likely completely fine. Also they did not wear masks and cohabitated while singing songs.

I'll go ahead and save you time for replying since it's always the same answer to the question about their prognosis.

"**** you!" Or "whatever you're dumb" or "so what they'll go on to kill the rest of the state!"

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

SARS-CoV-2 Transmission and Infection Among Attendees of an...

Limited data are available about transmission of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), among youths. During June 17–20, an overnight camp in Georgia (camp A)...

www.cdc.gov

76% of kids at a GA summer camp were infected, even with precautions.

In-person school isn’t happening this fall, or if it does happen, it will be soon be shut down.

People need to come to terms with this reality and move on.

It's absolutely happening in my entire state.

Being wrong suits you.

 

[MHYDE]

SARS-CoV-2 Transmission and Infection Among Attendees of an...

Limited data are available about transmission of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), among youths. During June 17–20, an overnight camp in Georgia (camp A)...

www.cdc.gov

76% of kids at a GA summer camp were infected, even with precautions.

In-person school isn’t happening this fall, or if it does happen, it will be soon be shut down.

People need to come to terms with this reality and move on.

Nope. I won’t accept that. Accepting that we will not have school this year because of a contagious respiratory virus means accepting that we won’t have school in 2021 or 2022 or beyond, or any time there is a contagious respiratory virus. Accepting that means ceasing to advocate for my kids. I found a school for my kids. They will try their best to operate and only close if ordered to do so. You can come to terms with whatever you want.

 

[Apollyon]

Nope. I won’t accept that. Accepting that we will not have school this year because of a contagious respiratory virus means accepting that we won’t have school in 2021 or 2022 or beyond, or any time there is a contagious respiratory virus. Accepting that means ceasing to advocate for my kids. I found a school for my kids. They will try their best to operate and only close if ordered to do so. You can come to terms with whatever you want.

Do you remember that scene from the execrable "Star Trek III", where Commander Kruge (played by Christopher Lloyd) is menacing Captain Kirk?

Kirk: You should take the Vulcan too.

Kruge: No.

Kirk: But why?

Kruge: Because you wish it.

That dude will disagree just to disagree. It's good to have an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out. He's like the guy at the Superdome after Katrina, complaining that the free water wasn't cold. His glee at people getting sick shows you something of his character.

 

[Birdstrike]

SARS-CoV-2 Transmission and Infection Among Attendees of an...

Limited data are available about transmission of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), among youths. During June 17–20, an overnight camp in Georgia (camp A)...

www.cdc.gov

76% of kids at a GA summer camp were infected, even with precautions.

In-person school isn’t happening this fall, or if it does happen, it will be soon be shut down.

People need to come to terms with this reality and move on.

Yep, you COVID-School Truthers are really going ga-ga over this one. And you all conveniently leave out how many of those 260 died or were hospitalized. Zero.

Oh, yeah. And because bunking together overnight and sharing communal showers and cabins with no precautions whatsoever is totally the same as school.

 

[doctalaughs]

Schools should shut down when the teachers are okay with having no access to take-out, grocery stores, mail and non emergency medical services. Ie - an apocalyptic scenario where everyone is shut in their houses with the military delivering water and sacks of grain.

In that scenario - all the other workers that teachers are demanding continue to expose themselves to provide daily services, are also “protected.”

 

[Birdstrike]

NY, NJ and MI have also been touted by some, as examples of how to handle COVID-19. They currently have higher rates of viral spread (Rt) and still have much higher deaths per capita (deaths per 1M pop) than the sunbelt states (TX, AZ, SC, LA, GA). The sunbelts states took less extreme measures, viral spread is now slowing, and they have far less deaths per capita, still.

So far,

Sunbelt states: Less extreme lockdowns, less deaths, viral spread slowing.
NY/NJ/MI: Most extreme lockdowns, much higher deaths per capita.

I don't know about you, but if given the choice between more lockdown + more deaths, and less lockdown and lower deaths, I'll choose less
lockdown and less death, every time.

(P.S. Take a peek at Hawaii, also touted by some as "how to do COVID well," now has the highest spread rate in the country).

Sources:

RT.Live
Worldometer.com

 

[MixedAnimals77]

Who to trust 🤔...It's not the only county with discrepancies. Pierce County says 116...

 

[xaelia]

Ah, I remember this thread.

Kids will be mostly fine. 17x more likely to die than their age-adjusted baseline, but 17x a tiny chance is still a tiny chance. Really, really terrible if it's your kid, tho.

School is super important. No argument there – both for kids and functioning family units. The oft-cited locations that re-opened school without apparent problems are generally in places with low prevalence and healthy respect for ease of transmission. There are plenty of localities in the U.S. that can certainly open schools without dramatically affecting their rate of death from COVID. Unfortunately, a lot of places aren't doing the work now to be ready by the end of this month.

There's zero face validity to claiming children won't pass it to adults. Failing to observe or document something where rigorous prospective observation hasn't been defined is hardly proof it doesn't happen. However, the incremental elevated risk to in-person teaching over community spread is probably not high. Trying to prevent every kid in a school from getting infected is probably still a good idea, though it turns school into "school" in a way that is almost certainly terribly stressful for everyone. Even if kids are less effective vectors than adults, they are still vectors – and the adults who catch it from them will go on to be further vectors for a community.

Data quality being reported by states and counties is low. It's probably not useful to quote and cherry pick too granular level data regarding deaths/hospitalizations. Rural areas in particular have serious problems with testing and reporting, and our current snapshot of the scope of the pandemic is delayed by days to weeks to months depending on the statistic and the region.

Quoting studies or anecdotes of small samples – 50, 100, 200 – of infected individuals who did well is insipid. IFR estimates in the 0.3-0.6% range tell us that already, and those incorporate middle-aged and elderly – so of course a sample of 200 kids and young adult teachers are likely to all do fine. There shouldn't be any question more cases will mean more deaths, though – an observed sample fo 200 that did well will go on to infect another invariably higher-risk 200 in the community at R0 = 1.

I mean, I get the stress about school for sure. Our previous school is online-only until November just to start. The home-school experience this spring was miserable for all. So, we moved:

 

[bravotwozero]

woah, you moved to Kiwiland? congrats! How do you like it there?

 

[GeneralVeers]

woah, you moved to aussieland? congrats! How do you like it there?

I'd like to know too. My back up plan if socialism/domestic terrorism is allowed to take hold in our country this November.

 

[wamcp]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/05/coronavirus-on-track-to-overwhelm-houston-hospitals-in-two-weeks-mayor-says.html

July 5: Coronavirus on track to overwhelm Houston hospitals in two weeks, mayor says

So, it is now August 2. Here's how the ICU hospitalizations turned out.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EedMAdXUwAA99Rk?format=png&name=900x900

 

[xaelia]

So, it is now August 2. Here's how the ICU hospitalizations turned out.

Here's another helpful visualization potentially better describing the COVID performance in Harris County, using TMC's beautiful dashboards.

Should also be noted Texas and Houston dramatically ramped up mask wearing and restrictions late June to demonstrate positive effects mid- /late- July.

 

[xaelia]

I'd like to know too. My back up plan if socialism/domestic terrorism is allowed to take hold in our country this November.

Kiwiland.

AUS is fairly saturated excepting far rural, and they have enough FACEM supply now. Kiwis are paid less and have higher taxes (but, the dollar is worth a ton, so if you've saved up a ton of dollars ...). Also, I'm *here*, but work doesn't start until the end of the month. I'm still in world-famous "managed isolation".

 

[GeneralVeers]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/05/coronavirus-on-track-to-overwhelm-houston-hospitals-in-two-weeks-mayor-says.html

July 5: Coronavirus on track to overwhelm Houston hospitals in two weeks, mayor says

So, it is now August 2. Here's how the ICU hospitalizations turned out.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EedMAdXUwAA99Rk?format=png&name=900x900

Kiwiland.

AUS is fairly saturated excepting far rural, and they have enough FACEM supply now. Kiwis are paid less and have higher taxes (but, the dollar is worth a ton, so if you've saved up a ton of dollars ...). Also, I'm *here*, but work doesn't start until the end of the month. I'm still in world-famous "managed isolation".

Not even worth working in New Zealand. I don't love medicine enough to work for what they are paying, and to pay the taxes. Retirement or doing another profession would be better options.

 

[Birdstrike]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/05/coronavirus-on-track-to-overwhelm-houston-hospitals-in-two-weeks-mayor-says.html

July 5: Coronavirus on track to overwhelm Houston hospitals in two weeks, mayor says

So, it is now August 2. Here's how the ICU hospitalizations turned out.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EedMAdXUwAA99Rk?format=png&name=900x900

The one thing I'll remember from the COVID-19 pandemic of 2020 is the purveyors of doom and their, "In two weeks..."

You'll be China, "In two weeks!"
You'll be Italy, "In two weeks!"
You'll be New York, "In two weeks!"
Yeah, yeah, but, but, but, but you just wait because, "In two WEEKS...!"

Notice that they never say, "Did you notice ___(place)____ is doing great right now, be reassured, you'll be doing great like them in two weeks." The formula is: Look around, find most dire place situation in world, insert "That'll be you 'in two weeks.'" Then, when that place is doing fine, keep moving to the latest, worst situation and inserting, "You....in two weeks," repeat. This ensures they can sucker the greatest number of vulnerable people into a non-stop state of, months long, hair-raising panic for maximum views, clicks, retweets, faves, thumbs up, shares, YouTube and TV views.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

The one thing I'll remember from the COVID-19 pandemic of 2020 is, "In Two WEEKS...!"

You'll be China, "In two weeks!"
You'll be Italy, "In two weeks!"
You'll be New York, "In two weeks!"
Yeah, yeah, but, but, but, but you just wait because, "IN TWO WEEKS!"

You're an EP, you should already know how this works. After all, every patient you see in the ED only had 2 beers or was jumped by 2 dudes.

 

[Birdstrike]

You're an EP, you should already know how this works. After all, every patient you see in the ED only had 2 beers or was jumped by 2 dudes.

"Doc, I swear, I won't drink or smoke...in two weeks."

Always. In two weeks! 🤣

 

[d2305]

New Zealand is too close to China to be safe.

 

[Birdstrike]

The home-school experience this spring was miserable for all. So, we moved:
View attachment 314773

The home-school experience this spring was miserable, so you up and moved to New Zealand as a result? Seriously?

 

[MechEDoc]

The home-school experience this spring was miserable, so you up and moved to New Zealand as a result. Seriously?

For NZ wages*, why not just work a few locums shifts here and there in the USA and then just kind of live off the grid somewhere?

 

[DoctwoB]

The one thing I'll remember from the COVID-19 pandemic of 2020 is the purveyors of doom and their, "In two weeks..."

You'll be China, "In two weeks!"
You'll be Italy, "In two weeks!"
You'll be New York, "In two weeks!"
Yeah, yeah, but, but, but, but you just wait because, "In two WEEKS...!"

Notice that they never say, "Did you notice ___(place)____ is doing great right now, be reassured, you'll be doing great like them in two weeks." The formula is: Look around, find most dire place situation in world, insert "That'll be you 'in two weeks.'" Then, when that place is doing fine, keep moving to the latest, worst situation and inserting, "You....in two weeks," repeat. This ensures they can sucker the greatest number of vulnerable people into a non-stop state of, months long, hair-raising panic for maximum views, clicks, retweets, faves, thumbs up, shares, YouTube and TV views.

FWIW we very well may have had more New Yorks without masking and distancing. The doom/gloom may have been overstated but may also have been what could have been without measures taken.

 

[thegenius]

FWIW we very well may have had more New Yorks without masking and distancing. The doom/gloom may have been overstated but may also have been what could have been without measures taken.

Oh he knows that. He’s just writing that to be antagonizing.

BTW you are right, if we did no masks and no distancing and no hand washing we would have many many times more morbidity and mortality, and in the worst case scenario when it was all over it would have been 2.2M deaths EXACTLY. Not a person more. Maybe less though depending on model parameters. We Americans have economically suffered but we are alive. We have done good and we should all congratulate each other and have a big party with Birdstrikes smoked shoulder butt and brisket.

 

[Birdstrike]

...Australia...they're locking down...That's how it ought to have been done.

Australia, right now...

 

[GeneralVeers]

Australia, right now...

Australia COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Australia Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Isn't it amazing how wrong the lockdown people got this? At least they are consistent.

 

[Birdstrike]

Oh he knows that. He’s just writing that to be antagonizing.

Oh, that couldn't be. You must have the wrong Birdstrike with a blue avatar with a white airplane comin' attcha. 😆

We have done good and we should all congratulate each other...

I'll never let you live this one down. 🙂

...we should all congratulate each other and have a big party with Birdstrikes smoked shoulder butt and brisket.

Still have 5 lbs of it left. Come on over! This batch came out so damn good, it's unreal. Cherry/maple/pecan/hickory/oak-wood smoked deliciousness.

 

[Apollyon]

Cherry/maple/pecan/hickory/oak-wood smoked deliciousness.

Dude, that's kind of complex. Personally, I use, at most, two different types of chips/chunks (with one exception - this bag of "3 favorites" from Kingsford). Mine comes out fine.

 

[Birdstrike]

Dude, that's kind of complex. Personally, I use, at most, two different types of chips/chunks (with one exception - this bag of "3 favorites" from Kingsford). Mine comes out fine.

I usually do one wood only, too. Cherry alone, or hickory alone, are my faves. But I started this smoke with cherry wood (pellets) and ran out, then realized the only thing I had left was a blend of the others. So, it was a little bit by accident, but came out really good.

 

[Apollyon]

I usually do one wood only, too. Cherry alone, or hickory alone, are my faves. But I started this smoke with cherry wood (pellets) and ran out, then realized the only thing I had left was a blend of the others. So, it was a little bit by accident, but came out really good.

The spirit of Bob Ross is with you. Happy accidents, man!

 

[Birdstrike]

The spirit of Bob Ross is with you. Happy accidents, man!

Yes! Haha. Bob Ross live on. I remember him well. As an aside, my 14-year-old has a Bob Ross bobblehead doll, for some reason 🤣 .