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How many were told to be shoo-ins but ended not matching? Just wondering if being hypocritical to their own students is something common in the match process.
How many were told to be shoo-ins but ended not matching? Just wondering if being hypocritical to their own students is something common in the match process.
Well, I discussed that with a member of a selection committee who phrased it very nicely: "Match is tailored to fit the programs and not applicants. All that programs try to do is make the applicants rank them first as then they get to pick."
Not necessarily.
For some of the more competitive medical schools, there are a ton of 4th years going into fields like ortho and derm. The school cannot possibly take them all, even if the school feels they are all qualified for the field. For example, if 10 people are going into ortho and derm, but the place only has 5 spots for ortho and derm, they aren't going to be able to take everybody, or even come close to doing so.
...the program wants what it thinks are the best applicants for THEM...they aren't necessarily trying to find the most qualified people...rather they are picking among a group of qualified folks who made the cut for the interview, and at that point it can become very subjective.
I think that whom is "most qualified" is sort of a subjective term itself, both in the eyes of the applicants and the residency programs. Let's say I have high board scores, and good to excellent clinical evaluations and say I want to go to a relatively unknown place in a community setting. And then let's say I was turned down for an interview. (This actually happened to me, so it isn't that hypothetical I guess ) . . .
Now suppose that dragonfly's remark is correct, maybe the program "didn't think I would seriously want to go there", and so they don't want to interview someone who potentially is using them as a "back up." In theory I could call/email the program director and say I was really interested in going to their program and they might be swayed by this argument. I didn't actually do this, but wanted to . . .
Some program directors at places that are community based, but have an academic bent, will say that they aren't just looking for high board scores and might even say that board scores don't matter . . . I think that these places overall place a lower emphasis on grades and academic achievement because the students with top scores traditionally have snubbed their program. One place the PD seemed very pointed telling a group of applicants how they don't want someone with a 99 . . . but seem to want a certain personality instead. Again, it was at a place that I don't think is getting all the top applicants in the world and the residents there obviously didn't read up on their patients . . . not that their residents weren't "smart", just that it wasn't an academic powerhouse, they even said that their residents weren't "rhodes scholars", and it looked bad saying this in front of the applicants. The PD was from Texas, as were a lot of the attendings, and they took a lot of residents from schools in Texas (and the program isn't in Texas!), so yeah, I think there is a lot of unfair bias after getting the interview. If you don't go to a "feeder school" for this residency, then I think you are at a disadvantage, no matter how high your board scores and clinical evals were . . .
I wanted to ask them, "so why are there so many people from Texas here?"
How many were told to be shoo-ins but ended not matching? Just wondering if being hypocritical to their own students is something common in the match process.
After talking to people in my school I was under the impression that I would have a much more difficult time matching than I did. I waaaaaay over applied and over interviewed (even though I turned down 10 interviews). This is for internal med, not a more competative field--but still, my home program made me feel like I was a lousy candidate even though I wound up matching in my #1 choice at much higher ranked program. You can never trust what people say in good or bad ways. My only regret is that I spent several thousand more dollars than I should have interviewing--but I had some pretty awesome vacations because of the crappy, soul crushing, and very wrong advice from apparently well meaning people at my school.
After talking to people in my school I was under the impression that I would have a much more difficult time matching than I did. I waaaaaay over applied and over interviewed (even though I turned down 10 interviews). This is for internal med, not a more competative field--but still, my home program made me feel like I was a lousy candidate even though I wound up matching in my #1 choice at much higher ranked program. You can never trust what people say in good or bad ways. My only regret is that I spent several thousand more dollars than I should have interviewing--but I had some pretty awesome vacations because of the crappy, soul crushing, and very wrong advice from apparently well meaning people at my school.
I disagree with the advice above that people should apply to any specialty they want. There are certain specialties that without a good class rank (or at least high USMLE scores and powerful letters of recommendation) you are realistically not going to get. derm, plastic surg and urology come to mind.
I see your point. However, an applicant will know that they are not the most competitive applicant for a particular field... thus, they should apply to whatever this field of choice is AND another "backup" field. There is absolutely NO harm in applying to more than one specialty in an attempt to get into the field of medicine that you truly enjoy (except short-term monetary losses of course). It is for this reason why I don't understand a school's perspective... they should tell the students what they truly believe their chances in a particular field are, so the student knows that when they apply they also need to have an alternative option. I don't think it's right to tell people they shouldn't even apply... you never know what will happen. If you get 1 interview in your field of choice... you still have a shot, just be sure to interview at another option as well.
Disclaimer: I know that not "everyone" has the statistics to realistically get into competitive fields, but schools should just make sure the student understands this fact so they can develop their application plan appropriately. That being said... I know where you are coming from Dragonfly...
What I found extremely hypocritical was that people were approached deep into the interview season with unsolicited "outbursts" of love from their programs' PDs and ended not matching.
Are you my Applicant Twin???? I had basically the same thing happen to me. I was a kick-a++ student at my home institution in Gen Surg. The surgery dept sent me as their representative on an all-expenses-paid trip across the country to the ACS National Conference. I was told before-during-and after my interview that they couldn't wait to see me the next year as a resident. They have been doing this trip for 4 years and every year except this one (me) they have matched that applicant from my school. I rocked my sub-I, got Honors from a notoriously hard grader and med-student hater...I mean this guy usually won't talk to 2nd year residents because they are only "7th year med students." My LOR's were great and from some of the biggest people in the program.
Everyone knew that I wanted a spot there. I know that my numbers were average, but not totally sucky. And then came Black Monday. "Not Matched" Had to scramble. Am now a fricken Prelim in Gen Surg at my program. When I called their office, the Program Director told me to walk over to their office...I walked in and he offered me a contract...so that was nice...didn't have some of the horrors of scrambling. However, now I have to start all over with the application process and all that crap. Because even though he has told me that I will be a shoe-in if a 2 spot opens up...or they will take me as a cat next year....how can I believe him?
It sounds like they wanted her somewhat, since they pretty much gave her a prelim spot. It does suck, though. Perhaps if she is female, that may have been a factor for some attendings? I'm just speculating. Perhaps there were some faculty who strongly wanted her, and others who were not as enthused?
If I were in this situation, I would be looking around on Findaresident and everywhere else, because there are PGY2 surgical spots that come up occasionally. Maintaining good relationships w/faculty @her home program could help with networking, even if no spot opens up at her particular program.