how many recs do we need from sugeons? 2? 3? 4?!

[aye]

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Hey all. I'm am setting up my application for ERAS and trying to gather some LOR's. Surgery residents from the hospital i did my clerkship told me that all i need is 2 and the others can be from different fields as long as the writer has a title. but i've been casually looking at some programs and they require 3, all from surgeons. is this true or am i just reading it wrong? right now, i'm good w/ having two surgeons write them for me but three might be a stretch to obtain by the time sept 1 rolls around.... 😱

 

[smq123]

Hey all. I'm am setting up my application for ERAS and trying to gather some LOR's. Surgery residents from the hospital i did my clerkship told me that all i need is 2 and the others can be from different fields as long as the writer has a title. but i've been casually looking at some programs and they require 3, all from surgeons. is this true or am i just reading it wrong? right now, i'm good w/ having two surgeons write them for me but three might be a stretch to obtain by the time sept 1 rolls around.... 😱

You'll probably need one from the chair of surgery at your school. That letter tends to be a form letter, since they usually don't work with students all that closely.

 

[JackADeli]

... trying to gather some LOR's. Surgery residents ...told me that all i need is 2 and the others ... i've been casually looking at some programs and they require 3, all from surgeons. is this true.... 😱

Not sure if you realize how ludicrous you have phrased your question. We can NOT tell you if what a specific program posts is "true". What a program requires is "true" for that program. Most programs do list what their application requirements are... that is their truth and thus if you are interested that is what you must do.🙁

 

[surgres88]

Not sure if you realize how ludicrous you have phrased your question. We can NOT tell you if what a specific program posts is "true". What a program requires is "true" for that program. Most programs do list what their application requirements are... that is their truth and thus if you are interested that is what you must do.🙁

I'm going to echo a little of JAD's tone. But let you in on a little secret some may not be adept at picking up. This is the first test for residency...follow instructions. If a program says send three letters, send 3. If a program says it wants 2 with one from the chair, send 2 with one from the chair. If a program says it wants all letters from surgeons, this isn't the time to be daring and send letters from the FP who tried to marry you to their daughter or son (even if the letter makes you flawless, that only happens with worthless and trashy airport novels-sorry random postcall divergence).

Upload the letters to your file and send what is appropriate to each program. I had four letters uploaded and used the letters as needed for each of the programs. Don't expect an interview if you can't follow a program's request, you're already bucking the system.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Yep...everyone above is right. Surgery residents at your hospital did not interview at every hospital and do not know what every program requires.

Follow directions. Nothing shoots down an application faster (well except maybe horrible USMLE scores) than not following directions. Surgeons are very exacting and pendantic.

If Hollywood Upstairs Surgery program wants 3 letters, all from surgeons, then that is what you need.

If the program only says "3 letters" the majority should be from surgeons but it would be ok to have a 3rd from:

MICU
Gastroenterology
Anesthesia

and perhaps EM. Leave out the Peds, Ob-Gyn and FM letters regardless of how stellar they are (and someone will now come along and point out how they got in with a great Peds letter. Ignore them.)

 

[aye]

Not sure if you realize how ludicrous you have phrased your question. We can NOT tell you if what a specific program posts is "true". What a program requires is "true" for that program. Most programs do list what their application requirements are... that is their truth and thus if you are interested that is what you must do.🙁

cmon dude, lets not nitpick the wordage (is that even a word? lol) of my question. i know you got the jist of it...

i'm asking in general, what's the rule of thumb on the number of surgical recs that students need when applying to general surgery residency? i'm only asking cuz i'm not sure if i can get a third surgical rec in time for sept 1.

 

[smq123]

cmon dude, lets not nitpick the wordage (is that even a word? lol) of my question. i know you got the jist of it...

i'm asking in general, what's the rule of thumb on the number of surgical recs that students need when applying to general surgery residency?

😕

He answered your question already, though.... It's going to vary from program to program, as JAD said. But the max you can usually send is 4.

You said that you can get 2 LORs, for sure. You'll almost certainly need one from your chairman, who will also be a surgeon. That gives you 3 LORs from surgeons. You'll probably be fine, then.

 

[aye]

😕

He answered your question already, though.... It's going to vary from program to program, as JAD said. But the max you can usually send is 4.

You said that you can get 2 LORs, for sure. You'll almost certainly need one from your chairman, who will also be a surgeon. That gives you 3 LORs from surgeons. You'll probably be fine, then.

actually, he responded to my question but he didn't answer it. i know that you have to follow directions, so i'll have to provide 3 if they say so but i'm asking in general, how many do we need... maybe i should've put that in the OP

actually, the chairman is also the PD and I was counting him as 1 of the 2. the other guy is the critical care surgeon, so i only have two... 🙁

 

[smq123]

yea he answered my question but he didn't have to be rude about it. i know that you have to follow directions, so i'll have to provide 3 if they say so but i'm asking in general, how many do we need... maybe i should've put that in the OP

I was dinged for being "a dick" in the other thread for doing, more or less, what JAD did. While I see your point, gen surg IS kind of notorious for not tolerating certain types of questions, or certain types of "dependent" behavior.

If you can't tolerate it on an internet forum, it's even going to be even harder to tolerate at 3 AM, and the person "being rude" to you is only 3 feet away....

actually, the chairman is also the PD and I was counting him as 1 of the 2. the other guy is the critical care surgeon, so i only have two... 🙁

Ah, I see.

Well, you'll certainly have to do a few more rotations before applications need to be fully submitted. Perhaps getting 2 on your sub-I, instead of just 1?

Plus, programs will keep uploading info from your application until Nov. 1, because that is when your MSPE is due. So there's no real need to have all your letters uploaded by Sept. 1.

 

[aye]

Plus, programs will keep uploading info from your application until Nov. 1, because that is when your MSPE is due. So there's no real need to have all your letters uploaded by Sept. 1.

cool, but by not having the recs... will that prevent my app from being seen? i mean, i'm trying to apply on sept 1 so its kinda pointless if they won't look at it until they receive that 3rd letter. you know what i'm saying? should i even apply for sept 1 if i don't have the 3rd letter?

 

[JackADeli]

...This is the first test for residency...follow instructions. If a program says send three letters, send 3. If a program says it wants 2 with one from the chair, send 2 with one from the chair. If a program says it wants all letters from surgeons, this isn't the time to be daring ....Don't expect an interview if you can't follow a program's request ...

...Surgery residents at your hospital did not interview at every hospital and do not know what every program requires.

Follow directions. Nothing shoots down an application faster ...than not following directions. Surgeons are very exacting and pendantic...

...i'm asking in general, what's the rule of thumb on the number of surgical recs that students need when applying to general surgery residency?...

As stated by others, the rule of thumb is to follow the instructions from the programs you are applying. SDN is not the authority of every program.
1. You have been given a generalization from residents at your program... in theory you know who these people are.
2. You have been provided a specific answer from some programs that you checked on....
3. Now you ask for a generalization on the web from individuals you don't know and can't put a face to😱 Be prepared for far more harsh replies to that kind of systematic backwards approach.

...the chairman is also the PD and I was counting him as 1 of the 2. the other guy is the critical care surgeon, so i only have two... 🙁

I will put it in somewhat algebraic form....If the program you are interested in requires "x" number of letters and you have x-y = <x; then I guess you are out of luck and should
a. apply to a program to which you qualify
or
b. work to obtain some number of adequate letters >x.

...by not having the recs... will that prevent my app from being seen? ...

Some programs do not review applications until complete. This is program specific. See previous replies as to omniscience of SDN

 

[smq123]

cool, but by not having the recs... will that prevent my app from being seen? i mean, i'm trying to apply on sept 1 so its kinda pointless if they won't look at it until they receive that 3rd letter. you know what i'm saying? should i even apply for sept 1 if i don't have the 3rd letter?

Yeah, they'll look at it.

Some places will send you an interview based on your ERAS alone, even with no letters uploaded at all.

Others will refuse to look at ANYTHING in your application until your MSPE comes in, so rushing around to get all your letters uploaded by Sept. 1st is kind of pointless and a waste of energy.

 

[aye]

As stated by others, the rule of thumb is to follow the instructions from the programs you are applying. SDN is not the authority of every program.
1. You have been given a generalization from residents at your program... in theory you know who these people are.
2. You have been provided a specific answer from some programs that you checked on....
3. Now you ask for a generalization on the web from individuals you don't know and can't put a face to😱 Be prepared for far more harsh replies to that kind of systematic backwards approach.I will put it in somewhat algebraic form....If the program you are interested in requires "x" number of letters and you have x-y = <x; then I guess you are out of luck and should
a. apply to a program to which you qualify
or
b. work to obtain some number of adequate letters >x.
Some programs do not review applications until complete. This is program specific. See previous replies as to omniscience of SDN

ahh, thanks for bringing back the memories of middle school math. btw, you didn't specify the value of y so how can you know that subtracting y from x will give you <x? what if y was a negative number and will actually make the equation >x? what if y was an imaginary number?? oooohhh totally forgot what that means tho!

anyway, i thought i was approaching this systematically by obtaining different opinions from different sources. i got the resident's opinion and now i'm here asking for other's. but you're right, i need to be aware of the type of responses i can receive from said sources.

 

[SocialistMD]

ahh, thanks for bringing back the memories of middle school math. btw, you didn't specify the value of y so how can you know that subtracting y from x will give you <x? what if y was a negative number and will actually make the equation >x? what if y was an imaginary number?? oooohhh totally forgot what that means tho!

Actually, his formula was correct, he just needed to put the entire thing in parentheses, as his formula was the number of letters you have.

If the program you are interested in requires "x" number of letters and you have x-y = <x;

By stating (x-y = <x), y has to be a positive number.

 

[PostCall]

if you got 3 letters from your surgery rotations but the residency says they will accept 4 letters, does it help much to get the 4th letter from a research PI who's also a surgeon who u did research with during med school?

 

[JackADeli]

Actually, his formula was correct...

and that is why I do not wear the panties....