How many upper division classes to take to compensate for CC courses

[Mskincer]

Sorry for the long title but I was curious to know how many upper division biology classes to take at my home institution (USC). I just ask because I completed the two semesters of biology and general chemistry at a CC and I completed two semesters of both physics and organic chemistry at a another 4 year institution (Oregon State University) over the last two summers.

I don't want the give the impression to the medical school adcom that I am taking the easy way out (all pre-req classes have been A's) so I was hoping doing well in upper division classes would remove any doubts

Given that I am a psych major, I don't have much room but here are a list of classes I was thinking of taking:

Neurobiology
Molecular Biology
Cell biology
Developmental Biology
Marine Biology
Another Neurobiology class

I took biochemistry over the summer at a 4 year institution but do you think another 12 semester units of upper division units should do the job?

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[karayaa]

12 units is only 3-4 classes. I would aim for 5-6, focusing on classes that are recommended, eg genetics, or molecular. Are you at U of SoCalifornia or U of SoCarolina?

 

[eablackwell]

This is really going to be med school specific. There are a few schools out there that will straight up turn you away if your pre-reqs are not done at a 4 yr institution, and unfortunately, not all of them will tell you that if you call. Taking upper division courses will definitely make a difference/help at most schools though. 🙂 I wouldn't bother with Marine Bio though...doubt they would care about that too much. Good luck!

 

[Mskincer]

12 units is only 3-4 classes. I would aim for 5-6, focusing on classes that are recommended, eg genetics, or molecular. Are you at U of SoCalifornia or U of SoCarolina?

its University of So California. I got biochemistry down so I guess I'll enroll in mo bio, developmental, and cell biology. I can't fit other classes in my schedule so I might have to take two classes in the summer of next year but I was hoping to submit my med school apps then. Do you think I could forward my summer grades to them while waiting for secondaries?

Also with classes all over the place and unless I get a good MCAT score, do you think I am out of the running for the CA MD schools? rest of my application looks good imo.

 

[karayaa]

its University of So California. I got genetics down so I guess I'll enroll in mo bio, developmental, and cell biology. I can't fit other classes in my schedule so I might have to take two classes in the summer of next year but I was hoping to submit my med school apps then. Do you think I could forward my summer grades to them while waiting for secondaries?

Also with classes all over the place and unless I get a good MCAT score, do you think I am out of the running for the CA MD schools? rest of my application looks good according imo.

You could forward your grades, but I don't know if it'd make a difference.

Without a good MCAT score (30+), yes, you are probably out of the running.
But taking classes all over is probably not a problem. The schools that care about CC credits just want to see that you can perform at a 4-yr just as well, and you showed that with your Oregon classes

 

[karayaa]

This is really going to be med school specific. There are a few schools out there that will straight up turn you away if your pre-reqs are not done at a 4 yr institution, and unfortunately, not all of them will tell you that if you call. Taking upper division courses will definitely make a difference/help at most schools though. 🙂 I wouldn't bother with Marine Bio though...doubt they would care about that too much. Good luck!

Any idea which ones these are? I have CC prereqs also.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

IMO you'll be fine with 2-3 more bio courses. You've already taken orgo, Biochem, and physics at a 4 year school so that works in your favor. Have you taken any math courses?

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Any idea which ones these are? I have CC prereqs also.

I think the best way to compensate for this is by taking upper level courses in the same discipline (although this may not be necessary with physics). I took gen chem ages ago and I made up for it by taking 2 upper level chem courses (above orgo). I'm gonna have to do the same with bio. Although I've already taken gen bio and cell bio at a 4 year institution, it was too long ago so I have to take at least 2 more bios at my school.

 

[Mskincer]

So my science/BCP GPA is a 3.97 with all the pre-reqs and biochem factored in. Based on the spaces available I can take Neurobiology, Cell Biology and Developmental Biology, and possibly another bio class. Along with the biochemistry course, that would be 5 upper division classes; if I can muster an A- in each that should be sufficient right? Just trying knock this academic concern out of the ballpark

thanks for the recommendations everyone, additional comments are welcome

Curious to know which schools don't accept CC credits or don't accept even if they say they do. I think NYU mentioned CC credits are not allowed.

@Cyberdyne 101 I took a statistics course at a CC and got an A, might have to take Calculus outside of school, maybe in the fall of next year, hopefully that wont be a problem.

 

[karayaa]

If you get A- you should be set.

somtimes the MSAR says it. But sometimes they don't care as long as you take upp-div science after transferring.

I don't know of any schools that reject applicants bc of CC credits when they went on to take upp-div science.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

So my science/BCP GPA is a 3.97 with all the pre-reqs and biochem factored in. Based on the spaces available I can take Neurobiology, Cell Biology and Developmental Biology, and possibly another bio class. Along with the biochemistry course, that would be 5 upper division classes; if I can muster an A- in each that should be sufficient right? Just trying knock this academic concern out of the ballpark

thanks for the recommendations everyone, additional comments are welcome

Curious to know which schools don't accept CC credits or don't accept even if they say they do. I think NYU mentioned CC credits are not allowed.

@Cyberdyne 101 I took a statistics course at a CC and got an A, might have to take Calculus outside of school, maybe in the fall of next year, hopefully that wont be a problem.

It's funny you mentioned NYU. I'm across the street right now-lol.

One calc course should be fine btw. Good luck!!

 

[Mskincer]

It's funny you mentioned NYU. I'm across the street right now-lol.
View attachment 182504
One calc course should be fine btw. Good luck!!

Have fun in Manhattan and rest of New York. you go to halal cart yet?

nice username, maybe by the time I go to a residency (assuming I am in one in the first place), skynet may take over my career.


not sure if anybody could answer this but do CA MD schools look at CC credits not too kindly or the fact that I took all of my pre-reqs outside of home institution (half were at a four year institution though). or they mostly look at the GPA/MCAT more?

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Have fun in Manhattan and rest of New York. you go to halal cart yet?

nice username, maybe by the time I go to a residency (assuming I am in one in the first place), skynet may took over my career.


not sure if anybody could answer this but do CA MD schools look at CC credits not too kindly or the fact that I took all of my pre-reqs outside of home institution (half were at a four year institution though). or they mostly look at the GPA/MCAT more?

Yeah well, hopefully Judgment Day is averted-lol. But if the Skynet computer is actually being built, it has to be somewhere in California. Obviously, I can't answer anything about the Cali schools, although according to this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...states-which-to-choose.1080222/#post-15370808
it's difficult for everyone to get in. But with your GPA, solid EC's, and a good MCAT you can apply broadly.

 

[karayaa]

UCSF has told me that CC credits are fine, and that's good enough for me.

 

[mrh125]

it's hard not to take CC courses in CA with how messed up the college system is here, i'd hope they take CC credits seriously due to that.

 

[gyngyn]

Sorry for the long title but I was curious to know how many upper division biology classes to take at my home institution (USC). I just ask because I completed the two semesters of biology and general chemistry at a CC and I completed two semesters of both physics and organic chemistry at a another 4 year institution (Oregon State University) over the last two summers.

I don't want the give the impression to the medical school adcom that I am taking the easy way out (all pre-req classes have been A's) so I was hoping doing well in upper division classes would remove any doubts

Given that I am a psych major, I don't have much room but here are a list of classes I was thinking of taking:

Neurobiology
Molecular Biology
Cell biology
Developmental Biology
Marine Biology
Another Neurobiology class

I took biochemistry over the summer at a 4 year institution but do you think another 12 semester units of upper division units should do the job?

We understand that CC transfers cannot be expected to repeat their science careers. Just don't bomb your university classes, get a strong MCAT and most good schools will be fine with it. Go to the pre health advisors! They have experience with this.

 

[allantois]

I know a doctor who went to UCSF med (8 years ago). She started at CC and then took all upper-division Biology classes at UCSF actually. You should be fine with 2-3 more Bio courses as you only need to supplement the coursework you took at CC with additional higher level courses at a 4-year institution.

 

[Mskincer]

it's hard not to take CC courses in CA with how messed up the college system is here, i'd hope they take CC credits seriously due to that.

haha not to get off topic but this state is messed up period. one of the OOS MD schools (University of Arizona) is not that much different given the cheap cost of living in Tucson.

 

[mrh125]

haha not to get off topic but this state is messed up period. one of the OOS MD schools (University of Arizona) is not that much different given the cheap cost of living in Tucson.

agreed it really is. UCs are giving a lot of college slots to OOS students who can pay at the expense of instate students, and forcing transfer students out in 2 years or less. It used to never be that way 🙁, one of my older friends took like every upper division science course at a UC 15 years ago. For me to even able to transfer to a UC I had to take courses at five different community colleges across my state to get all the courses I need and when I got into the UCs only one of them would let me even take premed courses. I had to defer UCLA and UC Berkeley because they literally wouldn't let me take premed courses and told me to drop out and come back in a few years.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

haha not to get off topic but this state is messed up period. one of the OOS MD schools (University of Arizona) is not that much different given the cheap cost of living in Tucson.

I was totally schooled yesterday on how difficult it is for California residents. I naively thought it was an advantage for them. That state needs like 5 more med schools.

 

[Mskincer]

I was totally schooled yesterday on how difficult it is for California residents. I naively thought it was an advantage for them. That state needs like 5 more med schools.

contrary to popular belief CA is not saturated with physicians, now coastal CA thats a whole another story, even some of the better specialties are having a difficult time finding a job in SF/LA/SD. They need the 5 or more med schools in the Central Valley with all the graduates/residents staying in that area.

I envy the TX MD schools. The cost of 4 years there is almost the same as four years as undergraduate UC. oh well

I emailed some schools on what they feel about how many upper division classes I should take, I'll share what they say (except for UCSF since its already been mentioned as CC friendly)

 

[allantois]

I have a friend (pre-med) who got into UCLA (wasn't accepted to UF 😵, go figure). I think she's yet to realize what trouble she got herself into with that decision. I remember talking with her our senior year and I remember agreeing that she'll have more opportunities on the West coast. CA does seem messed up but I also don't want states like FL and TX to open their arms to UCs graduates 😛.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

contrary to popular belief CA is not saturated with physicians, now coastal CA thats a whole another story, even some of the better specialties are having a difficult time finding a job in SF/LA/SD. They need the 5 or more med schools in the Central Valley with all the graduates/residents staying in that area.

I envy the TX MD schools. The cost of 4 years there is almost the same as four years as undergraduate UC. oh well

I emailed some schools on what they feel about how many upper division classes I should take, I'll share what they say (except for UCSF since its already been mentioned as CC friendly)

Texas does seem to put its residents in better position for med school. Maybe I should move there-lol. I've always viewed the UC's as similar (in terms of selectivity) to my neighborhood schools (Cornell, Columbia, Sinai, and NYU). But that's only because I'm a NY resident. Now I see that it's about the same for CA residents... that sucks.
There's gonna be a mass exodus of disgruntled pre-meds to Texas, North Carolina, Washington, etc...

 

[Mskincer]

So I emailed a couple of schools and here is what they said about CC credits and upper division classes

UT Southwestern

About 1/3 of the incoming class did not major in the sciences and may, or may not, have additional upper division coursework beyond the pre-requisites. The admissions committee would not “look down” (nor up) regarding your prerequisites. They will review and weigh your academic readiness, as well as many other facets of your application, against the non-resident applicant pool. It is not a requirement that the pre-requisite courses be completed at your primary university. Many applicants attend more than one institution, including community colleges.

Columbia

All that the admissions committee requires is that you take all of the prerequisite courses. It does not matter where in the U.S. you take them from.

Rosalind Franklin

We accept coursework from any accredited higher education institution. You do not have to complete all coursework at the same institution. Coursework can be completed at any time. Summer coursework is acceptable. We do not have any recommended upper level biology courses. Typically, we encourage applicants to take additional upper level hard science courses if their GPA or science GPA is below our average.

Rush

We do not have specific prerequisites any longer. Nonetheless, the Committee might indeed have questions as to why you did not take typical medical college prerequisites at your home institution, especially if the college where you took them does not have the same academic rigor as USC. We specifically recommend that applicants take 2 semesters of biochemistry, one semester of cell biology, and one semester of molecular biology.

 

[Mskincer]

another question about upper division biology classes?

can some psychology classes with a biology emphasis to it and Gerontology classes count as upper division biology classes?

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

another question about upper division biology classes?

can some psychology classes with a biology emphasis to it and Gerontology classes count as upper division biology classes?

To be safe I would stick to the cookie cutter upper division courses such as genetics, cell, molecular, developmental etc. Some of those cross-discipline courses can be very challenging and have a strong bio emphasis, but will the med schools you apply to know this for sure?
I could be wrong though. I guess it's always best to ask the schools. But I'm guessing they're gonna wonder why not courses in the bio department instead?

 

[BlueCircle]

it's hard not to take CC courses in CA with how messed up the college system is here, i'd hope they take CC credits seriously due to that.

Messed up how? Financially?

 

[mrh125]

Messed up how? Financially?

Financially, they're over-saturated with students, and the administration is often times cutting corners just to save money at the expense of students. If you're accepted as a transfer you have to get out in 2 years from most UCs and have no/very little room to explore different subjects and take your time at college (the CSU system is even worse too). UCLA, UCSB, and UC Berkeley wouldn't even let me take premed courses when I transferred because they want students out in 2 years. Meaning I was told that I could pursue premed before I transferred, but at the orientations I was told to drop out and come back in a few years. It's very hard to win and achieve your goals in the california school system. if you are in the community college system courses are extremely oversaturated with students and impacted, and if you do take premed courses at ccs you run the risk of being taken less seriously by medical schools. If you wait until you transfer, you may never be able to take premed courses and you have very little flexibility. I lucked out however, and go into one of the only UCs that really puts students needs above politics and administration and was encouraged to pursue whatever i wanted and take the time i needed to get the courses I wanted.

Oh and don't even get me started on how the UCs cut courses thus further complicating your ability to get in courses, how they're giving instate students the shaft for OOS residents that can pay, and how students are now getting stuck with saturday and sunday finals. Not to mention rising tuition costs.