How much can a vet make?

[Tiktaalik]

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I really can't remember where I found it. Just random google searches and it popped up somewhere. Listed about 10 specialities, with nutrition being at the top making something like $200kish. I'm gonna try to find it.

EDIT: no luck with it so far :\ Seems to be kind of hard to find salary information for vets on google. I just remember it was some yellowish chart with about 10-15 different specialities. Nutrition being #1 at like $200kish and surgeon at $183k. Can't remember the others but I think the next one under surgeon was at like $140kish, couple around $100k then the rest <$100k. I just wish I could find it. That way people can determine if it's a good source or one that should be black listed lol

Oh, so it was a surgeon salary, that makes sense then.

 

[astrovet]

Yea, that's why I was confused on why people still pointed at the usual $70kish salary for every part. I knew that if you went through an internship, residency, and then become full certified you would make more than the average salary...but it's kind of hard to find that information without running into the constant "fresh out of school DVM salary".

So after taking it in that , that is a surgeons salary..is that realistic?

 

[alliecat44]

So after taking it in that , that is a surgeons salary..is that realistic?

That number ($183K) does sound realistic to me.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

It depends where though. Many of our surgeons (at a teaching hospital) get paid in the low 100s, some even in the high 90s. I am sure at a specialty clinic it would be higher. Or maybe it's just Virginia.

 

[sumstorm]

It depends where though. Many of our surgeons (at a teaching hospital) get paid in the low 100s, some even in the high 90s. I am sure at a specialty clinic it would be higher. Or maybe it's just Virginia.

That is true in every field, though. Where you work (NYC vs Lewiston, ID), what area (govt, private, NGO, non-profit, corp) you work in will affect what your income is whether you have the advanced credentials or not. You can be a top executive in a Fortune 100 company making deep into 6 figures, then move to the executive position of a massive non-profit and make far less (lucky if you reach 6 figures.) Often folks in academia will use the position to supplement income via writing, consulting, or public speaking. A lot of it depends on choices. Some of our clinicians are here for the latest/greatest toys, the oppurtunity to do cutting edge work, or a strong belief that the best way to impact the world is to spread thier beliefs through mentoring. As one IM DVM told me recently; he rarely deals with a lack of money on his cases, unlike in private practice where he would see a higher rate of euth in treatable but expensive cases.

 

[alliecat44]

It depends where though. Many of our surgeons (at a teaching hospital) get paid in the low 100s, some even in the high 90s. I am sure at a specialty clinic it would be higher. Or maybe it's just Virginia.

I worked with surgical specialists in northern Virginia, and I'm sure that they made considerably more than the $183K. 😉

I think the lower salary at school is just typical of academia in general--significantly less than private practice.

 

[JosephKnechtDVM]

Criticize me all you want but my points are backed up by research performed by others looking at the financials of the profession. James F Wilson DVM, JD brought alot of this to the front with his "Elephant in the Room" discussions recently, Karen Felsted DVM CPA who is the head of the National Commission on Veterinary Economic Issues (NCVEI.org) also said recently the only way to make enough money to make the DVM degree worthwhile is to own a practice, but isn't there already a plethora of practices operating inefficiently on almost every street in most towns and cities of the USA. The KPMG Megastudy of 1999 forecast an oversupply of vets to reach maximum by 2014. Earlier study called VETERINARY MEDICINE IN ECONOMIC TRANSITION by labor economist Malcolm Getz arrived at similar conclusion in 1997. Dr Getz is on the panel of new National Academies of Science Study about Veterinary Manpower Needs due this April along with alot of former deans which has been delayed since fall of last year. The new education consortium to reform schools and licensing is already coming to conclusions that were reached in the PEW REPORT in the late 1980s but never were implemented but would have rejuvenated veterinary education and training like specializing in small animal or food animal or pathology/research tracks while you were in school so you could graduate and immediately be very productive in your chosen area. So much needed to be done to keep veterinary medicine current and economically viable. I recommend you all read BUSINESS BASICS FOR VETERINARIANS by Lowell Ackerman DVM, MPA,MBA, DACVD which really explains in basic terms the economics the profession operates under.

As for me I have applied to human medical school Phd programs but was rejected as my DVM degree was not considered worthy due to no research background. Applied to vet path residencies 4 times and rejected as there are not enough positions or money to fund the training slots although there is going to be a shortage of pathologists due to retirement. I am a good emergency practitioner but also am being rejected from some positions because I am not ACVECC boarded. If there were enough opportunities, then you would have good choices.

 

[JosephKnechtDVM]

AAHA.net in their student section have a very good presentation and papers on this issue. Also can check out the National Commission on Veterinary Economic Issues (founded in response to the KPMG MEGASTUDY of 1999) at www.NCVEI.org. You ignore the economics of this profession at your own peril.

Also a British Veterinary Association survey of recent graduates said finances were a significant source of stress to recent graduates. You must check out for yourself what others are telling you is the truth.

 

[sumstorm]

AAHA also assures students that there will be oppurtunities for new graduates, that debt can be paid off, and that the degree still has a high return for the cost. I have 3 weeks including finals, and then I will have time to find the details of the last AAHA presentation here.

Again, your lack of research experience is YOUR issue. plenty of us have adequate to significant research experience and continue to accumulate it during vet school. I will be well on completion of another thesis at the end of this summer, with an offer for another oppurtunity for research and publication before fourth year.

I am confident that if I can find top of the line work in a smaller field than vet med, I will be fine in vet med. I am also paying off half of my FY loans at the end of this month. I am not saying everyone will be so fortunate, but there is room for dedcated and talented people in every field, but not with the negative attitude you are conveying and attempting to inspire.

 

[astrovet]

I really think vets should be paid more than what they are. But when it comes down to it, I don't think it's as bad as a income-debt ratio as people make it seem like.

Yea, $75k-$150k is a lot of debt but if you plan everything right it's not THAT bad. Plus there is the option of going into a specialty to earn even more.

Even today I found a job opening for an emergency service vet that starts at $100k/year. Only 3 days a week, no call time (I don't see how that works for emergency services but yea..it's what the job listing said), and said new graduates are welcomed to apply.

Taking that into mind I don't think the market is that bad off. But for 4 years of hard schooling I think any/all vets deserve at least $100,000+/year or even just cheaper tuition in general would be okay with me. (I am aware everyone does it for their love of animals..but you also have to put food on the table or you won't be around much longer to help the animals lol.)

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Applied to vet path residencies 4 times and rejected as there are not enough positions or money to fund the training slots although there is going to be a shortage of pathologists due to retirement.

There are quite enough pathology positions despite it being a small field. I know for example that CSU actually had more slots open than normal (three). Texas is taking on three as well. Several outstanding colleagues of mine even received multiple offers.

Path DOES have few positions *compared to most other specialties* that is true - it is *competitive*. But you can't say the reason you got rejected was that there weren't enough positions, please. And resident salaries have remained not bad, so funding is not the issue you got rejected either. Must have been something else...🙄


And we are not ignoring the elephant in the room. We are very aware it is there and we are all making plans to deal with it. Not running for the hills to another job....

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Again, your lack of research experience is YOUR issue. plenty of us have adequate to significant research experience and continue to accumulate it during vet school.

👍

It is not that there are not opportunities, it is because you're angry that people are rejecting you because *you* don't have the specific qualifications they want. That's life.

We are not criticizing your points. We are criticizing your poor attitude and decision to come and tell us all to get out while we can - rather unprofessional

 

[sumstorm]

We are not criticizing your points. We are criticizing your poor attitude and decision to come and tell us all to get out while we can - rather unprofessional

I know, as an employer, that I need to feel confidence in my employees competence, ability to work with people, and desire to work in the field. If someone doesn't like thier field of work, for whatever reason, it starts to show through in their conversations and communications. If I tell a potential employee (or an intern candidate) that I believe in my company, I think it is next to my family in importance and that individual is negative, or even neutral, I put them at the bottom of the pile. I would take someone with less skills but greater enthusiasm, empathy, and sense of well being every day of the week because I can't teach an intern or an employee how to wake up happy with life, or how to be excited about the oppurtunities before them, or how to view the rough spots in life as challenges rather than obstacles.

I am not thrilled about being in vet school right now. There are quite a few things I am not happy about, but I still believe I attend an excellent school and that it is one of the best options available for most students entering vet med. When working with others, that will come across far more positively on myself and the school than the individual who feels that this is the 'only' school they got into, it is their 'only' option, and it was thier 'second' choice. The perspective of the person influences how they behave; and if the outlook seems dim, it might be time to look within.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

^^ Yep.

 

[david594]

I really think vets should be paid more than what they are. But when it comes down to it, I don't think it's as bad as a income-debt ratio as people make it seem like.

Yea, $75k-$150k is a lot of debt but if you plan everything right it's not THAT bad. Plus there is the option of going into a specialty to earn even more.

Even today I found a job opening for an emergency service vet that starts at $100k/year. Only 3 days a week, no call time (I don't see how that works for emergency services but yea..it's what the job listing said), and said new graduates are welcomed to apply.

Taking that into mind I don't think the market is that bad off. But for 4 years of hard schooling I think any/all vets deserve at least $100,000+/year or even just cheaper tuition in general would be okay with me. (I am aware everyone does it for their love of animals..but you also have to put food on the table or you won't be around much longer to help the animals lol.)

"The option of going into a specialty" downplays it a whole lot. Its an extra 4 years of training that is highly competitive to get into. If your not happy with your GP salary, you can't just sign up for a residency.

Have you ever worked in an emergency clinic before? No on-call time is the norm because any real emergency clinic has a doctor on site 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And those 3 shifts a week are probably minimally 12 hours each, and its not uncommon for the emergency vets to have to stay 2-4 hours late depending on their case load during the day.

 

[JosephKnechtDVM]

Thank you for all of your comments. I obviously do not understand how veterinary medicine is the most perfect place in the world and can only get better as we move toward the future under the wise leadership of the AVMA and the veterinary school deans. You are all truly lucky to be chosen to be in the profession with the smartest people in all of the world. I hope to revisit this topic with you all in the near future after I have reviewed the National Academies of Science study due this April and the employment statistics for the class of 2010. I shall retreat for the moment but shall return with abundant new data and economic statistics.

 

[Nexx]

Thank you for all of your comments. I obviously do not understand how veterinary medicine is the most perfect place in the world and can only get better as we move toward the future under the wise leadership of the AVMA and the veterinary school deans. You are all truly lucky to be chosen to be in the profession with the smartest people in all of the world. I hope to revisit this topic with you all in the near future after I have reviewed the National Academies of Science study due this April and the employment statistics for the class of 2010. I shall retreat for the moment but shall return with abundant new data and economic statistics.

We'll still be here!


You graduated from UGA right? In like 1990? -- Their tuition for OOS in 2001 was $19k/year. Three years prior to that (1998) the average salary for a veterinarian was $35k/year. How exactly are you still crying poor after 15-20 years and the massive increase in average salary?

I know its all circumstantial (debt and life occurrences), so it really doesn't matter to me the reasoning behind why. I just think it's funny that you have a whole let less to complain about than what I am planning on having to do. But hey, you are going to show me employment statistics from a nation that is just starting to, possibly, just maybe, coming out of a recession where employers and consumers were cutting back on expenses any way they could.

If you are unhappy with the profession now, what on earth makes you think you'll be happy to make $25k/year for a three year residency? I'm sure you'll be back complaining about that too when (and if you do) decide to secure one.

As it's been said before, our problem is with your attitude--and it's not just your attitude here, apparently you've been vomiting all over the internet too (thanks google!) You want to caution people about the industry and other options, that's fine. Telling people to flee from the job because the industry needs to reform? -- dumb.

Come back if you must, we'll be here. But you'll likely find most of us still won't listen no matter how hard you stomp your feet.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Telling people to flee from the job because the industry needs to reform? -- dumb.

Agreed. I am by no means a fan of the AVMA or of many vet school administrations, but that means pushing for change, not running away...

 

[alliecat44]

Okay, totally IMHO and not as part of any pseudo-official role on SDN...but...

I'm a bit disappointed that people are attacking Dr. Knecht personally for what he's saying. Unlike the students, he's not calling anyone "dumb" or criticizing people's individual shortcomings (as perceived over the internet with no knowledge of their actual qualifications or experiences--he could not even be a veterinarian for all you know). Dr. Knecht is the only one on here offering scientific studies backing up his reasoning--just because his view is pessimistic doesn't give anyone reason to attack him personally. Sheesh.

Maybe, just maybe, as someone who has been in the profession for a long time and seen its evolution/devolution firsthand--and is obviously up to speed on the economic and educational trends in veterinary medicine--he has valuable information/perspective.

I for one am grateful that a practitioner who's been out for so long is aware of what's going on. Way too often on VIN practice owners are showing that they have absolutely no clue of the changing financial pressures current students are under or how the curriculum has changed since they were in school (particularly removing the vast majority of our surgical experience). They come across as angry and critical of new graduates--I'm glad that some can appreciate what we (and the future of the profession) are dealng with.

Yes, affecting change is the goal--but it's not wrong to point out why you're frustrated with the profession you once fell in love with.

Even though I haven't yet graduated, I can't say that I would actively encourage anyone with the slightest inkling to pursue a different career to go for veterinary school. And I DO count myself as lucky to be able to have the best job in the world--every day--and sumstorm, you can bet that my enthusiasm and joy shines through every single day I'm in the hospital.

However, personally, if there's ANYthing else you can see yourself doing, that other career is likely to be far less of a headache and relatively more lucrative--for the vast majority of new veterinarians out there. (Specialty/industry veterinarians are a rather small percentage.)

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Maybe, just maybe, as someone who has been in the profession for a long time and seen its evolution/devolution firsthand--and is obviously up to speed on the economic and educational trends in veterinary medicine--he has valuable information/perspective.

Very true. And people are not disagreeing with what he is saying, the issue was going around telling everyone to give up now. Not simply saying "this is what is wrong, be prepared' but 'get out, jump ship, the profession is tanking'

Even though I haven't yet graduated, I can't say that I would actively encourage anyone with the slightest inkling to pursue a different career to go for veterinary school.

I wouldn't actively encourage anyone unsure about the profession either before providing them with proper info. You have to be passionate about this field to be in it.

But again, it seems like he is purposefully trying to drive people (both pre and vet) students away.

There is a BIG difference between pointing out problems and warning about issues (as he has done, and yes with some very good info, and I am appreciative of that) and telling people to get out while they can and leave the profession.

 

[Nexx]

Okay, totally IMHO and not as part of any pseudo-official role on SDN...but...

I'm a bit disappointed that people are attacking Dr. Knecht personally for what he's saying. Unlike the students, he's not calling anyone "dumb" or criticizing people's individual shortcomings (as perceived over the internet with no knowledge of their actual qualifications or experiences--he could not even be a veterinarian for all you know). Dr. Knecht is the only one on here offering scientific studies backing up his reasoning--just because his view is pessimistic doesn't give anyone reason to attack him personally. Sheesh.

Maybe, just maybe, as someone who has been in the profession for a long time and seen its evolution/devolution firsthand--and is obviously up to speed on the economic and educational trends in veterinary medicine--he has valuable information/perspective.

...

No one called him dumb. I said his idea to avoid vet med because it needs change is dumb, there's a difference. 😉

As to comments about why he may not have gotten positions he applied for, may be true, might not be true. But given that he thoroughly seems disenfranchised with the profession (as evidenced even beyond this forums) I think opinions might hold true but it doesn't really matter in the end.

Sorry, but there is negativity and there is constructive criticism. I personally don't respond well to negativity, neither do employers, employees, or most people for that matter.

As to the studies, I'll get to reading them eventually. However they are over 10 years old now and the one he states above with predicted results for vets to be oversupplied in 2014, just 3.75 years away, probably a bit outdated at this point. So as the US population continues to increase exponentially and veterinary student numbers continue on on a linear scale (as do retiring vets), somehow there's a magic oversupply? Perhaps an oversupply of vet clinics (1-4 Dr. pracs, more likely). Sorry, I might give a rebuttal further down the line when I have off starting tomorrow.

Also his arguments fail to take into account any assistance in paying off debt. New programs have arisen, people have partners willing to pay down debt, the student lending program is just starting to get overhauled as of this week. ^shrug^

I know my path in this career, none of us on here are saying it's cheap and easy. However someone is saying it's too hard and not worth it. Which is more realistic?

 

[alliecat44]

Sorry, but there is negativity and there is constructive criticism. I personally don't respond well to negativity, neither do employers, employees, or most people for that matter.

Also his arguments fail to take into account any assistance in paying off debt. New programs have arisen, people have partners willing to pay down debt, the student lending program is just starting to get overhauled as of this week. ^shrug^

I know my path in this career, none of us on here are saying it's cheap and easy. However someone is saying it's too hard and not worth it. Which is more realistic?

...Aaand this is an internet forum and he is not your boss or employer trying to tell you what to do. 🙂 He has every right to post his opinion on here that you do--as long as it's not personally degrading, insulting, done in a profane manner, etc.

....We have yet to see the real impact of these programs. Will they be a lifeline? Save a ton of people? Will it be too little, too late? Will the government be able to fulfill their part of the deal? What will it really be like? We don't know--what we do know is the debt and income statistics and trends.

...As far as which is more realistic--I don't think that's a very good question. I could easily ask you, "Lots of us on here are about to go out and do it. One person on here already has. Whose opinion is more realistic?"

Go ahead and read the studies he's citing. Read the article I posted a link to that, among other things, talks about how the stats we're seeing now are even worse than those predicted in those studies.

This is an informal internet forum--just because his view is pessimistic and he's frustrated doesn't mean he has to tiptoe around all of us. 😉

 

[Nexx]

...Aaand this is an internet forum and he is not your boss or employer trying to tell you what to do. 🙂 He has every right to post his opinion on here that you do--as long as it's not personally degrading, insulting, done in a profane manner, etc.

....We have yet to see the real impact of these programs. Will they be a lifeline? Save a ton of people? Will it be too little, too late? Will the government be able to fulfill their part of the deal? What will it really be like? We don't know--what we do know is the debt and income statistics and trends.

...As far as which is more realistic--I don't think that's a very good question. I could easily ask you, "Lots of us on here are about to go out and do it. One person on here already has. Whose opinion is more realistic?"


Go ahead and read the studies he's citing. Read the article I posted a link to that, among other things, talks about how the stats we're seeing now are even worse than those predicted in those studies.

This is an informal internet forum--just because his view is pessimistic and he's frustrated doesn't mean he has to tiptoe around all of us. 😉

Oh, he's entitled to an opinion. Just doesn't necessarily mean its correct or valued. Sorry, but this is mainly a pre-professional board for people interested in going into the field. Obviously professionals in the field are welcome and encouraged but most people here would agree that if you are burned out and no longer want to be in the field, you probably shouldn't have found your way here and giving advice to interested parties that simply includes "the sky is falling, run while you can!" -- it isn't constructive, it isn't helping the profession, and frankly is short-sighted.

but back to the topic at hand... which for me right now is diagnostic imaging. 🙂


/hooray for run-on sentences! It's late and punctuation is overrated.

 

[alliecat44]

this is mainly a pre-professional board for people interested in going into the field. Obviously professionals in the field are welcome and encouraged

Actually, this particular forum is for "veterinarians and veterinary students." 🙂

And IMHO, neither forum is subtitled, "the sunshine and roses forum to justify your career choice." But maybe that's just me. 🙂

Good luck with DI!!! Much more fun than equine sx or bovine therio (our exams in the next two days...ugh!). 🙂

 

[lailanni]

I think he brings up valid points. Looking at this financially, vet med is headed towards a rocky path. We're turning out a huge generation of vets/future vets that will be facing financial difficulty from the get go. The high cost of education vs income potential is only getting worse. People will only pay so much for "just animals" and in a way our income is capped - tution is not.

If the trend continues, it may be possible to say that becoming a vet (if you have no financial help) may ensure that you live a very modest life. Is this worth it? That is a personal decision. We may feel one way now, but after years of modest living, working long and hard hours, paying off a huge educational debt, we may change our minds.

It is interesting to see someone raise the red flags that we ourselves might have in a few years down the road.

 

[sumstorm]

Alliecat, I know from previous encounters that you agree with a lot of what Knecht says and that is fine, you are entitled to your opinion, however, I am also entitled to mine. Just because this person sees doom and gloom doesn't mean I am not spending plenty of time around practioners that love their careers. I offered to bring out the info from AAHA which contradicts what he says WHEN I HAVE TIME to go through my files. I am sorry I am unwilling to drop everything to sort through all the stuff from this semester and last to find a detail that isn't a top priority to me when we start finals in 2.5 weeks. Occasionally, I have better stuff to do than track down citations.

I never attacked him personally, but I also know that employers and review committees are just as competent at playing with google as I am. Can you honestly say that you would want to spend your time, day in and day out, with someone who is unhappy with their profession? OK, maybe you would...there are individuals who love that stuff. I don't, and I didn't when i was the person hiring and reviewing applications. I know that if I came up with the negativity I found in 2 minutes of googling, it would be bottom of the pile. He is suggesting that we pursue other options...well, I am suggesting that he may find more happiness in his career if he reframes his perception of it and/or moves into a career that he would prefer.

Maybe he is right; I should turn around and go back to a career where I have already hit the top of the field, and there isn't much space to move in, where there are entire institutions closing down (strange, I haven't seen any vet school close), and where I can't be the actual owner. Or maybe finding a different field would be the right option for that individual, not necessarily for everyone else.

Also, why is your experience or this Dr's more relevant than anyone else's? Why keep comparing your personal experience with things like surgery if you don't know everyone else's? At this point, I have already performed 9 recovered surgeries and another half dozen that were terminated for research. After this semester ends, that number will increase by at least another half dozen. This summer will be more. That is more than any vet I have worked with had in the first year. I suppose it could all be tragic after this year, but I doubt that. Part of this is pursueing oppurtunities, much like pursueing research for Dr. Knecht. Why was that anyone's responsibility other than his? If that is his current road block, doesn't that reflect on what he did in school, not on whether the profession is failing? I guess I see that linked about as closely as ice cream and drowning.

You are correct, it isn't wrong to point out frustrations, it also isn't wrong to point out what may be the issue for an individual. You may come across as absolutly thrilled everywhere but on SDN, but that isn't true for Dr. Knecht; online he has gone to the extent of encouraging parents to discourage 12 year olds interested in this field. Actually, that sounds kind of like what you said in your post...and how on earth do you KNOW that every other career is likely far more lucrative and less headache? How many of these careers have you pursued?

And why even bring up your role on SDN?

Okay, totally IMHO and not as part of any pseudo-official role on SDN...but...

Yes, affecting change is the goal--but it's not wrong to point out why you're frustrated with the profession you once fell in love with.

Even though I haven't yet graduated, I can't say that I would actively encourage anyone with the slightest inkling to pursue a different career to go for veterinary school.

However, personally, if there's ANYthing else you can see yourself doing, that other career is likely to be far less of a headache and relatively more lucrative--for the vast majority of new veterinarians out there. (Specialty/industry veterinarians are a rather small percentage.)

 

[alliecat44]

sumstorm:

I brought up my "role" because I didn't want people to think I was saying that anything personal about Dr. Knecht was against the TOS or whatever--kind of like the disclaimer that "the opinion expressed is that of the individual." Nothing more, nothing less. 🙂

Regarding surgical experience--you have a lot, and from what I have heard, NCSU has an exceptionally progressive curriculum. I'm sure that much of your experience is also self-driven, and I commend you.

As to why I "feel the need" to "compare my personal experience with everyone else's"--I know you're on VIN--many students from many other schools have shared their experiences on here and on there and MOST schools are not as progressive/inclusive as NCSU regarding surgical experience. (I actually am a HUGE fan of your school and wish mine was more like it!) The lack of exposure to surgery while in school is a common complaint. In fact, if you take a look around VIN you'll see the most common complaints from practitioners about new graduates. Lack of surgical experience is a common theme, and they are often surprised with how much (or how little) surgical experience schools provide thanks to animal rights activists, the increase in surgery residents, etc etc etc. There are people on both sides of the issue there, too--those who felt that they needed more surgery in school and those who felt that it wouldn't have really made a difference. Regardless, I'm sure you're aware that your level of surgical experience is not the norm experienced by students across the country.

Anyways, this thread isn't really about surgery or whatnot--just like it's not about Dr. Knecht's personal decisions or career history.

Just to answer your other questions: I find it absolutely miserable to be around people who are constantly negative; I do think people unhappy with their own job/situation should find another one; and the type of people who are interested in veterinary medicine are usually interested in other professional degrees, which ARE more lucrative. So of course there are individual exceptions--aren't there always?--but as a general statement, when compared to other fields, vet med is heading in a direction that makes it a poorer return on investment--again, ON AVERAGE--than other similar professions.

There are always ways to succeed and I firmly believe that everyone involved in this conversation absolutely will. We're obviously all very passionate and have high career goals--my concern is for the "average" DVM and the future of our profession as a whole.

If you feel that things are just fine the way they are and don't see a need to affect change at a large level, then fine. There's no need to be involved in organized veterinary medicine if you think the leadership is doing everything they can and you agree with all of their decisions. If you don't perceive a problem, then you don't perceive a problem--nothing I say will change your mind. 🙂

I personally disagree and think that having conversations is the first step to brainstorming/elucidating some sort of solution/action plan. And I'd prefer not to have an "every man for himself" sort of mentality--I personally believe that it takes an awareness of these issues and an appreciation for their potentially significant detrimental effects on this profession in order to steer our ship in the way we want it to go. I think there are many, many issues that are going to affect the vast majority of our colleagues and I'd like to be able to help them. (When I get on my soapbox about this at home and my boyfriend tells me that I'll be fine, I always tell him, "I'm not worried about ME! I'm worried about all these other people!" 🙂 )

Regarding the future of the profession: Ideally, I'd like to work with a whole bunch of people (much smarter than I!) to preserve the viability and integrity of the profession that I love so much as we head into the future.

And I believe that the first step in doing THAT is recognizing where there are issues.