How much can you make starting out of residency?

[deleted1097413]

This is a great thread, however would be nice if PP docs can chime in… associates/partners/owners etc.

there’s always so much negativity on here. And then the MSG docs come in and go…

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[Feli]

This is a great thread, however would be nice if PP docs can chime in… associates/partners/owners etc.

It is a bit harder since not every PP compensates the same (whereas a VA or MSG or hospital basically will do same base, %, etc). It is also probably easier to talk compensation when you post anonymous or semi-anon or are just talking about past gigs and not present, lol.

My employment now is associate in a large group multi-state, so there is probably variance in base, %, etc from doc to doc and area to area based on overhead, training, etc. It is not wise to talk specific numbers when you have your info in your forum sig, for obvious reasons. Some ranges:
Greater of either base 150-200k/yr or 25-35% collections calculated monthly, many tools and services available to hit bonus, surgery 0.5-1 day/wk, health allowance monthly, 401 match after 1yr, great staffing levels, autonomy, no call, no weekends. This is obviously a systematic PP model with high staff/services and high volume/collections (not low staff/overhead and low volume/collections as most solo and smaller PP do).

That is not a first job as the thread asks (although they hire people out of residency for probably same/similar... yet new grads likely won't produce as much initially unless they can throttle patient flow and understand coding/billing). My very first job ~10yr ago after residency was base $80k with 35/40/45% bonus starting 200/350/500k collections for owner and myself. I think I got a health allowance monthly. It was low paying and a job I took on a whim up north near residency when I got divorced 3rd year and decided not to go to the south, were I'd been setting up hospital or good PP jobs based on where my ex and I had planned to live. I ended up learning a ton about PP at the first job, though... many ideas and tricks I still use to this day. It was still a good experience.

...I say it a lot, but with PP (or even MSG/ortho, even some hospital jobs), one major thing to look for is do they have the tools for you to be successful? Staffing. Training. Space. Nice office. Supplies. Marketing. Reputation and new pt demand and types of pts you want to see. Referral sources. EMR. Mentorship. Autonomy. Owner/admin support and mindset. Colleagues. Don't look at just the money and take those thing for granted. Often, they're not there (and they won't appear once you start). I would work a $100k base with bonus and DME offerings, imaging offerings, good staff levels, nice office, growth potential, banker hours, good insurance pts... over a $250k base with crap admins and little marketing and skeleton staffing and weekend call any day. The former job will be good quality and can get good in $$$ terms pretty fast, but the latter is one I'd hate fast, and they aren't enabling you to hit any bonus either.

 

[CutsWithFury]

First job out of residency was hospital based MSG. Didn’t get along with ortho as they tried to limit my ankle cases. Scratched, clawed, kicked and screamed everyday to do what I was trained to do.

Started off at 240k base. Next contract was 270k. Third contract was 290k.

I did 1000 RVUs a month during my last 2 years. Grossed about 450-465k during those years with bonuses. Worked 80-100 hours because I had no real help at the hospital.

I flamed/burned out in spectacular fashion and have been doing locums work since then making more money than I was making as a hospital employee (8-12k a week depending on whether I’m holding the ER call pager).

Currently looking for more locum work but jobs are limited for podiatry. I love being a locum to be honest. Free car, free lodging, way above average pay. It’s been a great experience.

Have one permanent job offer from a VA hospital in a prominent amazing west coast city but getting a contract has been amazingly slow. Was given the job in Feb but received nothing since then.

Have another permanent job offer from a very rural hospital in the Midwest that I’m currently getting credentialed for but it’s a 1099 position and not employed but the reimbursement could be incredible if it works out.

It’s a real battle out there for new grads. It’s hard to compete with podiatrists that have at least 5 years experience, board certified, and have significant hospital employed experience.

I’ve never worked for another podiatrist and will never be in private practice. My CV is all hospital employed jobs and I’m going to keep it that way.

 

[adductorschlongus]

Echo Mike above, similar set up.

MSG. 320k + wRVU + quarterly metrics as well with up to 20% bonus of my salary if I exceed MGMA RVUs otherwise no minimum. $25k sign on bonus, very generous CME, 401k match+gift, medical, malpractice, accrue vacation instead of an allotment all at once. Shareholder after 2 years. Full autonomy of schedule, currently have 1.5 block day of OR per week - might increase it to 2 days if it can be filled more consistently. Surgery overall reimburses well on a wRVU system, especially quick forefoot/lapidus cases. 15 min pt slots for new and established and average around 28 a day.

What are your quarterly metrics?

 

[wakaflocka88]

What are your quarterly metrics?

Meetings, patient surveys, satisfaction, wRVUs, and some other stuff. Not hard to achieve. At my current load, I’m averaging around 650-700 wRVU a month so far.

 

[Scrantonicity]

PP doc here, working for another podiatrist. I hold down the fort a lot while he's out on vacation, so I do 75% of collections in the practice. Yearly pay ranges from $180-195K (including bonuses). Add a little bit for benefits (CME, malpractice, supplement for Health Insurance). Pretty much the standard semi-sad PP story, but at least I'm free nights and weekends. Wife works too, so that helps. I also make decent petty cash (for the kids) playing in a rock band. Also hoping to get inexplicably rich in a few years with my crypto collection lol. I have a couple prospects, so I'm currently looking to change jobs and move on...

 

[air bud]

First job out of residency was hospital based MSG. Didn’t get along with ortho as they tried to limit my ankle cases. Scratched, clawed, kicked and screamed everyday to do what I was trained to do.

Started off at 240k base. Next contract was 270k. Third contract was 290k.

I did 1000 RVUs a month during my last 2 years. Grossed about 450-465k during those years with bonuses. Worked 80-100 hours because I had no real help at the hospital.

I flamed/burned out in spectacular fashion and have been doing locums work since then making more money than I was making as a hospital employee (8-12k a week depending on whether I’m holding the ER call pager).

Currently looking for more locum work but jobs are limited for podiatry. I love being a locum to be honest. Free car, free lodging, way above average pay. It’s been a great experience.

Have one permanent job offer from a VA hospital in a prominent amazing west coast city but getting a contract has been amazingly slow. Was given the job in Feb but received nothing since then.

Have another permanent job offer from a very rural hospital in the Midwest that I’m currently getting credentialed for but it’s a 1099 position and not employed but the reimbursement could be incredible if it works out.

It’s a real battle out there for new grads. It’s hard to compete with podiatrists that have at least 5 years experience, board certified, and have significant hospital employed experience.

I’ve never worked for another podiatrist and will never be in private practice. My CV is all hospital employed jobs and I’m going to keep it that way.

This.

Fellowship trained and fresh out? BFD. If anyone besides an Ortho (but fellowship...)is making the hiring decision you have no chance against this. Trust me.

 

[hotpoddy]

Similar vacation structure to patch. basically PP model underneath the MSG umbrella, improved reimbursements, collections, etc. we do pay a "management" fee around 8-11% to the MSG but also participate in the profit sharing.

 

[Agent9]

This.

Fellowship trained and fresh out? BFD. If anyone besides an Ortho (but fellowship...)is making the hiring decision you have no chance against this. Trust me.

So you feel as if fellowship training provides no marketable benefits for new graduates searching for jobs? No employers looking for applicants with 2-3 years experience will consider someone with a year of fellowship doing 400-600 cases + billing and coding as a satisfactory alternative?

 

[CutsWithFury]

So you feel as if fellowship training provides no marketable benefits for new graduates searching for jobs? No employers looking for applicants with 2-3 years experience will consider someone with a year of fellowship doing 400-600 cases + billing and coding as a satisfactory alternative?

Podiatry fellowship training is a gimmick and a SCAM. Sure it gives you experience but nothing beats real practice experience. Nothing beats dealing with your own complications. Fellowship trained pods are not infallible. They make the same mistakes as freshly graduated podiatry residents do.

Most fellowship trained podiatrists I know are arrogant. Much like their ACFAS podium mentors.

Fellowship training is completely overblown in podiatry. I don’t have sour grapes. I trained at a historically strong residency program and have a ton of experience working in hospital based practices.

This narrative really needs to stop.

There are like 2-3 legitimate fellowship training programs that actually can change your career. The rest are just extensions of a GOOD residency program in terms of the complexity and volume of cases.

 

[wakaflocka88]

So you feel as if fellowship training provides no marketable benefits for new graduates searching for jobs? No employers looking for applicants with 2-3 years experience will consider someone with a year of fellowship doing 400-600 cases + billing and coding as a satisfactory alternative?

I got both my prior and current jobs over well known fellowship fresh grads and I also have friends that beat out fellowship trained pods for competitive jobs in highly
desirable cities. Also know current fellows that are still jobless despite strong training + their fellowship because they think they’re entitled to a job that will pay them ridiculous money and only do RRA. Experience with real world practice, billing, coding and dealing with your own personal complications will make a far stronger candidate. Because when it comes to the interview, that experience will make a huge difference in your knowledge base and they can tell. A fresh fellow does not have this. And this is first hand knowledge because I talk with my ortho colleagues. I told them fellowship in podiatry is a joke and a scam. Again - just because you trained with Cottom/Hyer/Fleming (all great pods IMO) does not automatically qualify you to be levels above the fresh grad next to you from a reputable program. Nor does finishing at Harvard and Yale make you invincible. A podiatrist is a podiatrist. Stop letting schools and ACFAS brainwash you. PM if you have questions. I got to where I’m at with advice from OGs on this forum and hard work, without a fellowship.

 

[dtrack22]

There are like 2-3 legitimate fellowship training programs that actually can change your career.

Yeah the problem isn’t really that ALL fellowships are scams or are worthless, but with the rapid expansion of fellowship “programs” it has gotten very watered down. I’m pretty damn confident in saying I can count on one hand the number of fellowships that will (because of networking, not necessarily training/skill) land you a better job or get you consulting work early in your career. And these are the fellowship grads that aren’t applying to some posted job, they are getting gigs that are never opened up or posted. The other 80-90% of fellowship grads? Well, you aren’t getting a job over me, or others with good training and work experience.

 

[Pronation]

Fellowship = scam

Better off pissing away a year at a crappy PP job where you’ll gain a year of experience, make more money than a fellow, and generate some cases for boards.

 

[PTPuser]

I wanna be like y'all when I grow up.

 

[NatCh]

This is a great thread, however would be nice if PP docs can chime in… associates/partners/owners etc.

PP Partner/Owner here.

WTF is a wRVU???

 

[CutsWithFury]

WTF is a wRVU???

A metric of productivity that has made me a lot of money in my young career so far.

 

[NatCh]

A metric of productivity that has made me a lot of money in my young career so far.

Flexin'!

 

[Agent9]

Thanks for the fellowship input, and all of the sound advice y'all provide. All that was said seems quite accurate when looking at a majority of programs. There are certainly some programs that are the exception but these fair few seem to be overshadowed by the recent influx of bogus nerve fellowships or fellowship directors merely looking for a poor sap to film their cases for an instagram account.

 

[deleted664048]

I am trying to consider pros and cons of podiatry and dentistry

Our of residency if you go to private practice 120K plus bonus is a standard
Hospital could be 180K +
Depends if you re flexible with locations and how much you want to operate
Some positions pay a lot but non operative, others pays a lot but too much call and surgery

 

[wakaflocka88]

Thanks for the fellowship input, and all of the sound advice y'all provide. All that was said seems quite accurate when looking at a majority of programs. There are certainly some programs that are the exception but these fair few seem to be overshadowed by the recent influx of bogus nerve fellowships or fellowship directors merely looking for a poor sap to film their cases for an instagram account.

Met a few nerve fellows at some conferences recently. I was very confused as to what the hell that entails. These nerve and orthoplastic fellows will not be doing what they were trained to unless you are the sole person in a large academic teaching hospital that has a large referral basis. They can post all the glamorous stuff they want on instagram. These fellowships are cheap labor.

 

[GSfootdoc]

I am trying to figure out if i am the only one feeling frustrated with job prospects in the new jersey area. I am a PGY-3 and will be graduating at the end of June. I been on several interviews where I thought things went great then I get ghosted by the employer, mind you this is after 2 rounds of interviews.
I have found some part time work with companies like Medserv but no private practice job. I am starting to think that the only way to get a job at this point will be starting my own practice which is something I have 0 knowledge of how to go about it. Do you guys have any advice ?

 

[msuDPM]

$0-500k. Maybe more. Not sure how much those TV pods that struggle to put in a smart toe or perform a TMA get paid...

 

[GreenHousePub]

Met a few nerve fellows at some conferences recently.

I've heard of these too. Do they really graduate thinking they will be doing anything remotely related to their fellowship?

 

[Agent9]

I am trying to figure out if i am the only one feeling frustrated with job prospects in the new jersey area. I am a PGY-3 and will be graduating at the end of June. I been on several interviews where I thought things went great then I get ghosted by the employer, mind you this is after 2 rounds of interviews.
I have found some part time work with companies like Medserv but no private practice job. I am starting to think that the only way to get a job at this point will be starting my own practice which is something I have 0 knowledge of how to go about it. Do you guys have any advice ?

I would consider honestly and objectively reflecting on yourself as an applicant and trying to determine if there is something that you may be lacking or doing that is deterring these employers from pursuing you. Certainly the job hunt can be frustrating/challenging especially if you limit yourself to a specific region but the scenario you describe of "ghosting" seems abnormal and as if there may be some sort of red flag associated with you or your application. As you move through the application process and initial interviews, employers do more research and begin contacting references... is there a reference in your application that could be thwarting your efforts or revealing less than flattering information about you?

 

[CutsWithFury]

I would consider honestly and objectively reflecting on yourself as an applicant and trying to determine if there is something that you may be lacking or doing that is deterring these employers from pursuing you. Certainly the job hunt can be frustrating/challenging especially if you limit yourself to a specific region but the scenario you describe of "ghosting" seems abnormal and as if there may be some sort of red flag associated with you or your application. As you move through the application process and initial interviews, employers do more research and begin contacting references... is there a reference in your application that could be thwarting your efforts or revealing less than flattering information about you?

Good post. @GSfootdoc Most likely you are interviewing poorly or there is a reference you are using that’s totally screwing you over.

Definitely reflect and figure out where the hole in your application portfolio is.

Also, trying to find a job in a saturated area like NJ is going to be challenging. I would seriously consider expanding your geographic locations for work.

 

[icebreaker32]

It is very inconsiderate to be ghosted after a second interview.

There is nothing you can do other than to try and improve your interviewing skills (experience helps to an extent) and expand your search. Also if you are following up after the interview, make sure that you allow enough time and are not coming off as too desperate or aggressive. You might be anxiously waiting around to hear, but odds are they are following up very quickly with the candidate they want. Sometimes their top choice does not work out and you might hear back in a couple weeks that you got the job or if they are consideredate that the position has been filled.

Half of the topics on this forum basically repeat the same true message that to get a good first job it really helps to be proactive and geographically open. Many do not get a great first job,

The last thing I would ever recommend is that someone opens up a practice completely out of desperation.

 

[SouthPod7]

My first job I think was $87k (negotiated up from $80k). My counter was 100k and we settled on 87k. Crappy PP with a few other doctors. Health insurance was absolutely garbage but they did pay the monthly premium. No retirement. Aggressive non-compete (I think they wanted 3 years and I negotiated down to 2 years). Partnership/ownership written at their “absolute discretion”. They dumped a lot of their surgery on my which as a new grad I was like oh wow great but then I quickly realized they were just offloading their Medicaid, poor surgical candidates, etc. They would even schedule surgeries on terrible candidates for me without me knowing and without telling me.

They were trying to get me do nail consults on the surrounding SNFs and SARs but I bailed before that happened. Unfortunately my experience was the very stereotypical awful PP Associate 1st job experience. 2nd job is much better though (but with some problems that don’t seem to be getting better). Hopefully 3rd will be even better.

 

[air bud]

I appreciate the honesty in this thread over the last few days. I think it is good for people to hear and read.

 

[deleted1097413]

Just reminding everyone that travel nurses are making $200,000+

 

[icebreaker32]

Just reminding everyone that travel nurses are making $200,000+

.....and to get that job you only need a pulse and a license. To be fair, no one could have predicted this. In actuality probably only extremely remote ICU RNs get that much. They are making a lot right now no doubt.

What has been true for decades though is that the supply and demand of podiatry has never been close to that of MDS, RNs, PAs, NPs etc

Since most on this forum are realistically past the point of no return, the only thing that helps is to focus on their training, then be proactive and remain geographically open,. Even if doing this it will still be harder than an MD trying to get a job who only applies near where they want to live. By doing this though you will likely at least land a mediocre job and possibly a great one.

 

[footpainhealer]

.....and to get that job you only need a pulse and a license. To be fair, no one could have predicted this. In actuality probably only extremely remote ICU RNs get that much. They are making a lot right now no doubt.

What has been true for decades though is that the supply and demand of podiatry has never been close to that of MDS, RNs, PAs, NPs etc

Since most on this forum are realistically past the point of no return, the only thing that helps is to focus on their training, then be proactive and remain geographically open,. Even if doing this it will still be harder than an MD trying to get a job who only applies near where they want to live. By doing this though you will likely at least land a mediocre job and possibly a great one.

Is podiatry really that "high" on the supply side, and "low" on the demand side?

There's only 9 schools for us, and not many people want to work with feet, so the # of applicants and grads really isn't that high.

And there's thousands of MD/DO/nursing/PA grads per year. We barely graduate what, 6-700 per year. Sure, some popular cities are saturated with pods, but they tend to be in metro's with millions of people in the population. And foot issues are hard to ignore or "power through" for most people. So you'd think they would seek out care.

Idk. I'm just having shower thoughts here. But obviously I could be completely off base here lol.

 

[NatCh]

Is podiatry really that "high" on the supply side, and "low" on the demand side?

There's only 9 schools for us, and not many people want to work with feet, so the # of applicants and grads really isn't that high.

And there's thousands of MD/DO/nursing/PA grads per year. We barely graduate what, 6-700 per year. Sure, some popular cities are saturated with pods, but they tend to be in metro's with millions of people in the population. And foot issues are hard to ignore or "power through" for most people. So you'd think they would seek out care.

Idk. I'm just having shower thoughts here. But obviously I could be completely off base here lol.

Can you think of any service we do that someone else (another profession) doesn't do? We arguably do it better but without a DPM in town there will be someone else who can take the case. Even then, it can take a lot of convincing to get the general public to trust our work. I see all the time on social media, "Don't go to a podiatrist -- go to an orthopedic surgeon (or physical therapist, or whatever)."

 

[CutsWithFury]

Can you think of any service we do that someone else (another profession) doesn't do? We arguably do it better but without a DPM in town there will be someone else who can take the case. Even then, it can take a lot of convincing to get the general public to trust our work. I see all the time on social media, "Don't go to a podiatrist -- go to an orthopedic surgeon (or physical therapist, or whatever)."

This post is the entire reason the APMA and the ACFAS have failed the profession.

Both organizations are useless in terms of promoting the profession. Both organizations are filled with the same podiatrists who hold leadership positions who really don’t do much other than “lecture” for a fee.

There has never been an aggressive marketing strategy from either that rivals the AOFAS. The AOFAS literally tells the public to not get their care from podiatrists with their marketing. Podiatrists do not have the education and training as ortho MDs. “Look for the O” mantra, etc. They do it daily.

The meetings between the APMA and AOFAS are completely useless. There will never be an academic compromise that will make the AOFAS respect our profession outside of podiatry following the same academic and residency training standards of MD/DO and letting the AOFAS have full control. Then the AOFAS can do what they have always set out to do. Make podiatrists non surgical practitioners of the foot and ankle.

Our leaders can’t do anything to truly promote the profession aggressively because that would mean they might enrage their orthopedic bosses at the ortho group or the orthopedic chief of surgery at their hospitals. Anything that can legitimately threaten their livelihoods is priority and the profession takes a back seat. THAT IS THE TRUE PROBLEM WITH PODIATRY.

Our leaders answer to someone else in the MD/DO world. Therefore the profession can never really stand on its own and actually make progress. Fundamentally it can not happen.

A simple result/ example of this is the many variations of the podiatry scope of practice throughout the United States. How can profession be defined so differently from state to state? It’s simple, the podiatrists in those respective states with better scopes fought harder or met little resistance compared to the states that have poor scopes. Where has been the APMA in ANY of this? Obviously nowhere to be seen otherwise podiatry would be universally defined throughout the USA.

Nurses have surpassed the podiatry scope of practice in terms of medical management of patients. It’s incredibly sad. Especially since some nurses are becoming APRNs through online programs which are a complete joke in terms of difficulty and the amount of clinical hours to graduate is less than one year of real podiatry residency. APRNs are being minted on a daily basis who have less patient treatment experience than most podiatrists coming out of residency but their scope will allow them to dictate medical management of patients while most hospitals refuse to let podiatrists to do the same.

 

[icebreaker32]

Is podiatry really that "high" on the supply side, and "low" on the demand side?

There's only 9 schools for us, and not many people want to work with feet, so the # of applicants and grads really isn't that high.

And there's thousands of MD/DO/nursing/PA grads per year. We barely graduate what, 6-700 per year. Sure, some popular cities are saturated with pods, but they tend to be in metro's with millions of people in the population. And foot issues are hard to ignore or "power through" for most people. So you'd think they would seek out care.

Idk. I'm just having shower thoughts here. But obviously I could be completely off base here lol.

Can you think of any service we do that someone else (another profession) doesn't do? We arguably do it better but without a DPM in town there will be someone else who can take the case. Even then, it can take a lot of convincing to get the general public to trust our work. I see all the time on social media, "Don't go to a podiatrist -- go to an orthopedic surgeon (or physical therapist, or whatever)."

Is podiatry really that "high" on the supply side, and "low" on the demand side?

There's only 9 schools for us, and not many people want to work with feet, so the # of applicants and grads really isn't that high.

And there's thousands of MD/DO/nursing/PA grads per year. We barely graduate what, 6-700 per year. Sure, some popular cities are saturated with pods, but they tend to be in metro's with millions of people in the population. And foot issues are hard to ignore or "power through" for most people. So you'd think they would seek out care.

Idk. I'm just having shower thoughts here. But obviously I could be completely off base here lol.

Sadly the supply really is that high and the demand is really that low in many ways.

Until there are jobs starting at 160K or more with good benefits for all residents, I am not sure how you can say otherwise. That is what is required after 4 years of podiatry school and 3 years or more of residency to make this profession worth the risk. Most MD specialties have good jobs going unfilled even with foreign doctors and Caribbean medical school graduates finishing residencies.

I know there are sad stories with Caribbean medical school graduates not passing boards or getting residencies, but everyone I have known that went this route has done just fine and they really only had to live abroad for a couple years

I would not have been happy being a PA personally, but at least it is a good career for the amount of time involved.

Don’t get me started on RNs. Some are very smart and get a 4 year degree from a good college, others are still more like a 2 year associates degree in some states, although this is becoming less common. Again a very good career for the time involved, with ability to pay off the schooling fast (even before covid) and become a NP later.

Podiatry has a high ceiling. Some work in ortho groups as a partner making just as much as many of the orthopedic surgeons. The floor is low for the profession also. It is sad the nursing home job market even exists as a career option for the amount of training we have.

The argument that there are only 9 schools and the aging population etc means nothing as far as great jobs waiting for everyone.

A hospital might want a podiatrist if they think or realize they can make lots of money on one in their local market, but they do not really need us. General surgery and ortho can handle the foot, even if not as well. There is no such thing as an emergency bunion. Even if a hospital is going to lose money on an essential specialty such as an OBGYN, they will pay fair market value to hire one. Some hospitals have open jobs that take a very long time to fill and hire recruiters. Post a good job for podiatry at the same hospital and if they have never done so before, they will honestly be perplexed how they got so many resumes.

One can create their own demand in PP podiatry in a local market with with marketing, referrals and a good reputation, but that is much different than the essential need for most MDs and RNs etc and the availability of good jobs.

 

[deleted1097413]

Nurses have surpassed the podiatry scope of practice in terms of medical management of patients. It’s incredibly sad. Especially since some nurses are becoming APRNs through online programs which are a complete joke in terms of difficulty and the amount of clinical hours to graduate is less than one year of real podiatry residency. APRNs are being minted on a daily basis who have less patient treatment experience than most podiatrists coming out of residency but their scope will allow them to dictate medical management of patients while most hospitals refuse to let podiatrists to do the same.

Lol I have a friend doing a program like that right now. it's so easy and all online. it's crazy. Also I wasn't trying to hate on nurses by bringing them in this discussion. I just want us all to realize our self worth.

 

[CutsWithFury]

Lol I have a friend doing a program like that right now. it's so easy and all online. it's crazy. Also I wasn't trying to hate on nurses by bringing them in this discussion. I just want us all to realize our self worth.

We should be disturbed. That nurse is going to become an APRN and have more scope of practice than any of us despite us going to residency and completing medical/surgical rotations with MD/DO. Something is significantly wrong

 

[deleted1097413]

We should be disturbed. That nurse is going to become an APRN and have more scope of practice than any of us despite us going to residency and completing medical/surgical rotations with MD/DO. Something is significantly wrong

Her homework includes watching movies and writing papers on them.

 

[Weirdy]

Her homework includes watching movies and writing papers on them.

....that's insane....

 

[wakaflocka88]

We should be disturbed. That nurse is going to become an APRN and have more scope of practice than any of us despite us going to residency and completing medical/surgical rotations with MD/DO. Something is significantly wrong

Let’s not scare off the current students and residents 😂

 

[icebreaker32]

Let’s not scare off the current students and residents 😂

Well it gets better….Stark laws dont apply to nurses, so. not only can they have full scope, they can refer patients to a lab they own etc with no fear of fines, jail, loss of license etc

 

[PTPuser]

Let’s not scare off the current students and residents 😂

Too late...lol
Knew of all the suggestions and still went on this path I played myself

 

[Twin2012]

Any tips for locating MSG jobs? How did you guys go through the process? Any good websites or resources? Currently at the end of my 1st year of residency and I know its early but I'm curious. Thanks!

 

[wakaflocka88]

Any tips for locating MSG jobs? How did you guys go through the process? Any good websites or resources? Currently at the end of my 1st year of residency and I know its early but I'm curious. Thanks!

1. Use search function

2. Need work experience

 

[Shiyuan]

Any tips for locating MSG jobs? How did you guys go through the process? Any good websites or resources? Currently at the end of my 1st year of residency and I know its early but I'm curious. Thanks!

Google / self searching.

 

[CutsWithFury]

Any tips for locating MSG jobs? How did you guys go through the process? Any good websites or resources? Currently at the end of my 1st year of residency and I know its early but I'm curious. Thanks!

If you are applying for a hospital job off a website good chance your application is going up against mine with 5 years experience and all previous jobs in hospital medicine, board certification, and I have productivity reports from previous jobs. Great references, etc.

You have no chance. Also your fellowship training means nothing.

 

[icebreaker32]

Any tips for locating MSG jobs? How did you guys go through the process? Any good websites or resources? Currently at the end of my 1st year of residency and I know its early but I'm curious. Thanks!

Excellent tips have been given by others that might have given a message similar to me, but here is some honest advice:

As far as resources I am not sure there is a better one than here at the moment.

Most jobs show up on the standard general and podiatry job sites. If you search harder and deeper you might find one occasionally on a recruiters web site or hospital site occasionally that are not on the big sites.

By in large there are no short cuts or secret web sites. It is often hard and humbling work to find a good first job in this profession.

1. At end of your 1st year you really need to decide how geographically open you are. One suburb, anywhere near one city, within two hours from one city, one state, one whole region of the country, or anywhere?

The advice is so, so much different depending on this.

I would not apply to posted jobs until your 3rd year. PP or creating you own job maybe middle of 2nd year. It is better to be early than late and it will give you experience and some confidence talking with people and interviews etc.

2. If you have any connections keep in touch and use them. Those with large enough connections are basically guaranteed jobs, but a medium or small connection might at least get you an interview.

3. It does not hurt to apply to the posted jobs and you should. Everyone else is doing this. Can you blame them for giving preference to someone that has a few years experience, is board certified, living in or near the area and putting up regular cases at the local surgery center? If you are that person you will probably get the job and they will basically stop talking to other candidates, whereas just finishing residency you never even got considered for an interview.

At least write a cover letter letting them know you have ties to the area if that is the case or why you want to work and live there. Do this for all jobs actually and modify the CV and cover letter slightly . It is so easy to submit a CV these days and they usually get way too many for podiatry. Apply very early, as in the first day or two.

4. You might be able to create your own job at a more rural or especially a very remote hospital. They are used to it being very hard and paying recruiters to get doctors. If a podiatrist falls in their lap, they might hire you. As it has been mentioned they often have no clue how much easier it is to recruit a podiatrist than an MD. If it works out you will likely just get a standard contract with a base they think is fair.

5. Some large hospital systems sometimes have many podiatrists employeed almost in a PP model with surgery maybe half of a day per week. Your chances to get a job like this in a medium sized town or even a large city that is not completely saturated is not horrible, but they are not always available. The jobs will likely be posted before they can officially hire and they will not give you the job without posting, but making contact with a recruiter employed by them can not hurt. The pay could be as low as 150K and possibly going straight production after a year. If you are from the area your chances might be reasonable to get an interview and maybe even the job even against some like CutsWithFury if they like you and are afraid he might move again in a few years and has no connections to the area. Someone like him though is also less likely to apply to this job as there is less income potential and less surgery than Ortho, MSG or a hospital job that wants/expects more surgical volume and call.

6. If you know the area you want to live obviously contact the MSG and Ortho also in the area. Some ortho want a non surgical podiatrist, some want one that does forefoot only and some want that does trauma and rear foot/ankle and some want nothing to do with podiatrists.

7. If all else fails make sure to get a PP job where you can learn the business side and get your numbers for boards. Once you are board certified getting a hospital, MSG or Otho job will be not be guaranteed, but your chances will be much higher, especially if you are somewhat geographically open.

Even getting a decent PP job, and this is where most the jobs still are, often takes using your connections, making calls and sending or emailing your CV and cover letters with follow-up. I would focus more on the practices with 2-5 doctors as someone might want to slow down or maybe they wanted to add someone soon and you seem perfect. A solo doctor going to two doctors is a big risk for them and you that it even works out. Also even getting them to get around to offering a contract can be time consuming even if they seem interested. Their chances of changing their mind is higher also even after it seemed promising. The very large PP groups will usually advertise if they need someone and it has not been filled by word of mouth. If you are extremely geographically limited obviously exclude nothing and call them also.

8. You would be surprised how many graduating residents are either extremely geographically limited or only apply to the same posted jobs as everyone else or talk with only attendings at their residency for jobs. They often wait too long also to look for jobs. If you are geographically open and very proactive you stand a much better chance to get a good job.

Even many that read this forum will not be proactive in the job search. It might not seem fair it is not like that for many other professions, but that will not help you.

It is amazing to me how many people that work so hard in podiatry school and residency are not more proactive in the job search. You either have connections or you do not. The training is pretty similar these days and those outside of the podiatry world rarely care which residency you did. You better be board qualified. Working harder and smarter at the job search is the only advantage you have over someone else. I guess it is so many years of that student mentality why others are not more proactive. The real world is coming soon and you don’t want an 80K Medicaid clinic job, nursing home job or to buy an overpriced office for sale in the ghetto do you?

Be proactive!! It is often a numbers game, especially for your first job in this profession. Whatever decent to great job you end up with will usually seem like "luck", but in actuality you often create your own luck.

 

[Dochopeful13]

Excellent tips have been given by others that might have given a message similar to me, but here is some honest advice:

As far as resources I am not sure there is a better one than here at the moment.

Most jobs show up on the standard general and podiatry job sites. If you search harder and deeper you might find one occasionally on a recruiters web site or hospital site occasionally that are not on the big sites.

By in large there are no short cuts or secret web sites. It is often hard and humbling work to find a good first job in this profession.

1. At end of your 1st year you really need to decide how geographically open you are. One suburb, anywhere near one city, within two hours from one city, one state, one whole region of the country, or anywhere?

The advice is so, so much different depending on this.

I would not apply to posted jobs until your 3rd year. PP or creating you own job maybe middle of 2nd year. It is better to be early than late and it will give you experience and some confidence talking with people and interviews etc.

2. If you have any connections keep in touch and use them. Those with large enough connections are basically guaranteed jobs, but a medium or small connection might at least get you an interview.

3. It does not hurt to apply to the posted jobs and you should. Everyone else is doing this. Can you blame them for giving preference to someone that has a few years experience, is board certified, living in or near the area and putting up regular cases at the local surgery center? If you are that person you will probably get the job and they will basically stop talking to other candidates, whereas just finishing residency you never even got considered for an interview.

At least write a cover letter letting them know you have ties to the area if that is the case or why you want to work and live there. Do this for all jobs actually and modify the CV and cover letter slightly . It is so easy to submit a CV these days and they usually get way too many for podiatry. Apply very early, as in the first day or two.

4. You might be able to create your own job at a more rural or especially a very remote hospital. They are used to it being very hard and paying recruiters to get doctors. If a podiatrist falls in their lap, they might hire you. As it has been mentioned they often have no clue how much easier it is to recruit a podiatrist than an MD. If it works out you will likely just get a standard contract with a base they think is fair.

5. Some large hospital systems sometimes have many podiatrists employeed almost in a PP model with surgery maybe half of a day per week. Your chances to get a job like this in a medium sized town or even a large city that is not completely saturated is not horrible, but they are not always available. The jobs will likely be posted before they can officially hire and they will not give you the job without posting, but making contact with a recruiter employed by them can not hurt. The pay could be as low as 150K and possibly going straight production after a year. If you are from the area your chances might be reasonable to get an interview and maybe even the job even against some like CutsWithFury if they like you and are afraid he might move again in a few years and has no connections to the area. Someone like him though is also less likely to apply to this job as there is less income potential and less surgery than Ortho, MSG or a hospital job that wants/expects more surgical volume and call.

6. If you know the area you want to live obviously contact the MSG and Ortho also in the area. Some ortho want a non surgical podiatrist, some want one that does forefoot only and some want that does trauma and rear foot/ankle and some want nothing to do with podiatrists.

7. If all else fails make sure to get a PP job where you can learn the business side and get your numbers for boards. Once you are board certified getting a hospital, MSG or Otho job will be not be guaranteed, but your chances will be much higher, especially if you are somewhat geographically open.

Even getting a decent PP job, and this is where most the jobs still are, often takes using your connections, making calls and sending or emailing your CV and cover letters with follow-up. I would focus more on the practices with 2-5 doctors as someone might want to slow down or maybe they wanted to add someone soon and you seem perfect. A solo doctor going to two doctors is a big risk for them and you that it even works out. Also even getting them to get around to offering a contract can be time consuming even if they seem interested. Their chances of changing their mind is higher also even after it seemed promising. The very large PP groups will usually advertise if they need someone and it has not been filled by word of mouth. If you are extremely geographically limited obviously exclude nothing and call them also.

8. You would be surprised how many graduating residents are either extremely geographically limited or only apply to the same posted jobs as everyone else or talk with only attendings at their residency for jobs. They often wait too long also to look for jobs. If you are geographically open and very proactive you stand a much better chance to get a good job.

Even many that read this forum will not be proactive in the job search. It might not seem fair it is not like that for many other professions, but that will not help you.

It is amazing to me how many people that work so hard in podiatry school and residency are not more proactive in the job search. You either have connections or you do not. The training is pretty similar these days and those outside of the podiatry world rarely care which residency you did. You better be board qualified. Working harder and smarter at the job search is the only advantage you have over someone else. I guess it is so many years of that student mentality why others are not more proactive. The real world is coming soon and you don’t want an 80K Medicaid clinic job, nursing home job or to buy an overpriced office for sale in the ghetto do you?

Be proactive!! It is often a numbers game, especially for your first job in this profession. Whatever decent to great job you end up with will usually seem like "luck", but in actuality you often create your own luck.

Are the salaries higher in the Midwest and flyover states? I assume most of the crap pp jobs are on the coasts?

 

[icebreaker32]

Are the salaries higher in the Midwest and flyover states? I assume most of the crap pp jobs are on the coasts?

Midwest salaries are usually better than East coast and the cost of living is lower.

Many large hospital systems are taking over PP podiatry in the Midwest. Many would say this is a good thing, but a few would say you lose some of the upside potential as a successful owner/partner in PP. Many successful podiatrists in PP, not just older ones nearing retirement, have willing sold their practices to the hospitals because they felt the pros were greater than the cons.

The total crap PP jobs tends to be where saturation is high, but can and does exist anywhere really as long as the supply and demand allows it to exist in our profession.

 

[Splenda88]

Another alternative if you are not 100% set into podiatry or dentistry

MD/DO (IM/FM hospital medicine)

330k/yr 7 days on/off (7am-6pm). No vacation but you can take an unpaid week off if you choose, which means you will have 3 wks off in a row.

Very flexible type of work. Some people at my place work only 10 days/month and still make 200k+/yr. I choose to work a little more than my 15 days/month contract (17 days/month) since I am a new grad. I am projected to make 400k+. It's not radiologist or ortho money, but not bad.

I actually thought pods made more than what are presented here. I present this alternative after seeing these numbers for pods because I think the ROI for IM/FM might be better than pods since they also have to do a 3-yr residency. Not sure about dentistry given that they don't have to do a residency.

 

[Weirdy]

Another alternative if you are not 100% set into podiatry or dentistry

MD/DO (IM/FM hospital medicine)

330k/yr 7 days on/off (7am-6pm). No vacation but you can take an unpaid week off if you choose, which means you will have 3 wks off in a row.

Very flexible type of work. Some people at my place work only 10 days/month and still make 200k+/yr. I choose to work a little more than my 15 days/month contract (17 days/month) since I am a new grad. I am projected to make 400k+. It's not radiologist or ortho money, but not bad.

I actually thought pods made more than what are presented here. I present this alternative after seeing these numbers for pods because I think the ROI for IM/FM might be better than pods since they also have to do a 3-yr residency. Not sure about dentistry given that they don't have to do a residency.

Sure, if you want to pay for my current student loans and time/work hours lost in residency.