How much debt do you have?

[Kpowell14]

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I wonder if you could get a private bank owned student loan to go away via bankruptcy... probably not, but this post made that thought go through my mind.

Just speculating... but I bet it depends on what type of loan it is... If it is specifically a loan for school I bet there is a clause that it cannot be bankrupted.. but if you got just a "normal loan" but used it for school stuff then maybe you can??

 

[StBernardsRule]

Isn't law getting pretty bad too? I don't have any numbers to back it up besides what pre-law students have told me.

Also, does anyone know someone who elected NOT to attend vet school solely because of the financial burden? How do they feel about not living out their dream/goal? I'm the type of person who assumes I'll regret something for the rest of my life.

Despite the sweet dog in my avatar, I'm a soon to be starting medical student who volunteered in a hospital a lot with other pre-meds (some of who have already started or are soon starting medical school).

We've definitely talked about how insane we think it is that some people are taking on a comparable debt load to us ($150k+) to become vets or lawyers. At least one person in my social circle who will undoubtedly make a great M.D. truly wanted to be a vet, but realized it was financial suicide and decided against it.

Some people are able to give up on their "dream" when they realize it isn't realistically feasible. I personally think it's just a sign of maturity and accepting reality.

 

[pp9]

I have thought about making the switch to human medicine, but I just feel like I'd be no good at it. The compassion for people and love of medicine in general is there, but my heart wouldn't be in it.

That and I feel like I'd have a hard time convincing med school adcoms to admit me. Did you mention anything about being pre-vet in your applications?

 

[StBernardsRule]

I have thought about making the switch to human medicine, but I just feel like I'd be no good at it. The compassion for people and love of medicine in general is there, but my heart wouldn't be in it.

That and I feel like I'd have a hard time convincing med school adcoms to admit me. Did you mention anything about being pre-vet in your applications?

I was never pre-vet. I have a job that lets me browse the internet while working so I read lots of random stuff and just stumbled upon this thread. You're obviously going to get a very bias sample here and usually only hear from other pre-vets and I happen to be an exception.

My friend who was pre-vet did not mention it on his application. Note it's hard to get into med school in a different way than vet school as med students need very high GPAs and MCATs where it seems vet students need silly (even compared to MD students) amount of volunteering. So I don't think one can easily switch to the other without putting a lot of work in between.

 

[Cyndia]

I have thought about making the switch to human medicine, but I just feel like I'd be no good at it. The compassion for people and love of medicine in general is there, but my heart wouldn't be in it.

That and I feel like I'd have a hard time convincing med school adcoms to admit me. Did you mention anything about being pre-vet in your applications?

I did actually contemplate pre-med as well when the loan stuff started to really hit me, but unfortunately I just get so squeamish with anything involving people. I have never ever had an issue with anything related to animals, but I start feeling faint around the same things in people, and my heart just wouldn't be into it either. I decided I'd either have to do something completely different or stick to the vet route, so I stuck out the vet route. I had doubts med school would believe my switch either, and I wasn't interested in having to waste an additional year or so trying to gain enough hospital experience to try to prove myself.

But back to the debt conversation, I'm at zero debt from undergrad and my masters thankfully, but looking at over ~220k for vet school. I unfortunately did not get into my IS this year, but I'll be applying to transfer if any spots open up, and if I'm lucky, that would end up saving me ~70k in tuition over the last three years.

 

[dyachei]

I was never pre-vet. I have a job that lets me browse the internet while working so I read lots of random stuff and just stumbled upon this thread. You're obviously going to get a very bias sample here and usually only hear from other pre-vets and I happen to be an exception.

My friend who was pre-vet did not mention it on his application. Note it's hard to get into med school in a different way than vet school as med students need very high GPAs and MCATs where it seems vet students need silly (even compared to MD students) amount of volunteering. So I don't think one can easily switch to the other without putting a lot of work in between.

Except that even the biased who went through vet school or are in it are telling people not to try

 

[Frozenshades]

Despite the sweet dog in my avatar, I'm a soon to be starting medical student who volunteered in a hospital a lot with other pre-meds (some of who have already started or are soon starting medical school).

We've definitely talked about how insane we think it is that some people are taking on a comparable debt load to us ($150k+) to become vets or lawyers. At least one person in my social circle who will undoubtedly make a great M.D. truly wanted to be a vet, but realized it was financial suicide and decided against it.

Some people are able to give up on their "dream" when they realize it isn't realistically feasible. I personally think it's just a sign of maturity and accepting reality.

I agree with you. While I'm very happy that I went this route, I always have felt there has to be a line drawn somewhere between dreams and pragmatism. My father always told me that while money doesn't buy happiness, money doesn't suck either. Between my graduate funding and my parent's generosity, if things continue to hold up well, <~25k of debt between undergrad, DVM, and PhD looks doable.

I think approaching ~75k of debt and upward is where I would've seriously reconsidered my options, and very likely would have chosen not to go to vet school. So I can definitely respect people who choose to walk away. I can respect people taking that much debt as well, I just hope everyone knows full well what they're signing up for by taking all those loans. I worry about some of my classmates. I wouldn't advise anyone to go to vet school unless they can afford it.

 

[katryn]

I've been encouraging people to make a "life after vet school" budget senario before applying.

Hubby and I did this assuming several different levels of debt/home ownership/life expenses levels. IS taking minimum loans was the only option we were comfortable with. I was on my third app cycle, so I also started considering different careers because me working minimum wage waiting to get into school wasn't a good long term option either. I'm glad it all worked out, but I was prepared to walk away from vet med if needed.

 

[katryn]

Also, to give you guys some hope.....

We own a home, had our first kid in vet school and #2 is on the way, and we are able to actively save for our emergency fund and retirement. So house, kids,etc is doable. That being said, we both have to be working to make ends meet, hubby also has a decent salary, and we budget within an inch of our lives for a moderate life style to make it work. And I had just short of the average debt load for vets.

 

[StBernardsRule]

Note: Some of my personal thoughts below and this isn't meant to come off in an arrogant way at all, I just also don't want to candy coat anything and give a dishonest opinion either.

Except that even the biased who went through vet school or are in it are telling people not to try

Yup. And I think it's a bit arrogant to ignore the advice of vets who are advising against it. I don't see how someone can realistically expect to take on $150k+ debt and enter an overcrowded field and be happy, but then again we feed kids propaganda from the time they're 5 to "follow their dreams!" and think "investing in education is investing in yourself, which can never be a bad investment!"

While I think most people who are going into vet school or law school are making a really bad decision (there are exceptions, such as rich parents or a full ride*), I also can't imagine how hard it is to have your heart set on being a vet, work very hard to get the grades and scores needed, and then after being told your entire life to follow your dreams suddenly realize "Wait, this is financial suicide" and stop. Especially if you already have debt and a not very lucrative major, such as animal biology. Sunk cost are a helluvathing.



Edit: I would also add "You are confident you have or can find a mate who will make a lot of money and help pay off your debt" to a (maybe) reasonable reason to attend law or vet school. Probably offensive but the fact of the matter is if you're a very attractive girl your options after law school with $200k of debt will be a lot better than if you're an average looking guy.

The friend who decided not to attend vet school and will be an MD is a single and average looking guy, which makes his decision even more sound IMO.

 

[StBernardsRule]

I agree with you. While I'm very happy that I went this route, I always have felt there has to be a line drawn somewhere between dreams and pragmatism. My father always told me that while money doesn't buy happiness, money doesn't suck either. Between my graduate funding and my parent's generosity, if things continue to hold up well, <~25k of debt between undergrad, DVM, and PhD looks doable.

I think approaching ~75k of debt and upward is where I would've seriously reconsidered my options, and very likely would have chosen not to go to vet school. So I can definitely respect people who choose to walk away. I can respect people taking that much debt as well, I just hope everyone knows full well what they're signing up for by taking all those loans. I worry about some of my classmates. I wouldn't advise anyone to go to vet school unless they can afford it.

Maybe. You might also underestimate how hard it is to basically give up on your dreams after putting a ton of time and money into accomplishing a goal.

Say there's a student with $30,000 in undergraduate debt and a 3.9 GPA in animal biology, good test scores, and a boatload of volunteering. Do you really think they're all the sudden going to think "Wait.... this math doesn't work. I better bail and throw away most of the hard work I've already done." Even if that's the correct decision (and from what I've seen, it probably is for many if not most people), that's not how people actually think or act.

It's a tough spot and I just think it's easy to say "Meh, I wouldn't take on all this debt" if you are actually in a position not to (rich parents, super cheap state school and/or scholarship) but in reality this isn't going to be how most people think. Hence we have a higher education bubble and too many vets (which I guess benefits me... as Saint Bernards are expensive 🙁)

 

[dyachei]

Note: Some of my personal thoughts below and this isn't meant to come off in an arrogant way at all, I just also don't want to candy coat anything and give a dishonest opinion either.



Yup. And I think it's a bit arrogant to ignore the advice of vets who are advising against it. I don't see how someone can realistically expect to take on $150k+ debt and enter an overcrowded field and be happy, but then again we feed kids propaganda from the time they're 5 to "follow their dreams!" and think "investing in education is investing in yourself, which can never be a bad investment!"

While I think most people who are going into vet school or law school are making a really bad decision (there are exceptions, such as rich parents or a full ride), I also can't imagine how hard it is to have your heart set on being a vet, work very hard to get the grades and scores needed, and then after being told your entire life to follow your dreams suddenly realize "Wait, this is financial suicide" and stop. Especially if you already have debt and a not very lucrative major, such as animal biology. Sunk cost are a helluvathing.

too be fair, you can apply with a major in almost anything, as long as you have the pre-reqs. I personally majored in biology (just bio...not animal or human) because my back up plan was research. which is a heck of a lot more lucrative than say a major in history

 

[Gwenevre]

Maybe. You might also underestimate how hard it is to basically give up on your dreams after putting a ton of time and money into accomplishing a goal.

Say there's a student with $30,000 in undergraduate debt and a 3.9 GPA in animal biology, good test scores, and a boatload of volunteering. Do you really think they're all the sudden going to think "Wait.... this math doesn't work. I better bail and throw away most of the hard work I've already done." Even if that's the correct decision (and from what I've seen, it probably is for many if not most people), that's not how people actually think or act.

It's a tough spot and I just think it's easy to say "Meh, I wouldn't take on all this debt" if you are actually in a position not to (rich parents, super cheap state school and/or scholarship) but in reality this isn't going to be how most people think. Hence we have a higher education bubble and too many vets (which I guess benefits me... as Saint Bernards are expensive 🙁)

That right there is about where I fall into. And it's difficult for me to even consider giving up on what I've been working towards since high school. Even this morning I thoroughly considered changing out of vet med and going to human, but I can't stomach the idea of it.

 

[StBernardsRule]

too be fair, you can apply with a major in almost anything, as long as you have the pre-reqs. I personally majored in biology (just bio...not animal or human) because my back up plan was research. which is a heck of a lot more lucrative than say a major in history

Agree 100%.

My point was more of to just show a lot of people who are jumping into law school or vet school do often have "useless" majors (especially pre-laws), which means their alternative options are worse. It's probably a lot easier to convince an electrical engineer that law school is a bad option than an Asian American Studies major or an Art History major. It's going to be very hard to convince someone with a "useless" major not to gamble on law school when law school has been their "dream since they were 10" and their alternative career options are so bleak. You can imagine a similar thing happening for pre-vets, even if it's of a lesser magnitude.

 

[epivetlove]

.

 

[epivetlove]

The debt load that most of us will/have taken on is scary and real. It's definitely given me pause, but if everything goes as planned, I'll be graduating with about $85k. And, really, there's truly nothing else I'd be happy doing as a career. Even if I'd be forever poor, I was prepared to take on the projected $160k for A&M. I'm still budgeting as if I was going to be 160k in debt, in case my current funding falls through at some point. :/

 

[Kpowell14]

The debt is still terrifying after finishing my first year of vet school. My husband and I are planning on living off his income and put my salary toward my loans until we have them paid off. I'm very thankful to not have any undergrad debt because of scholarships. My first year of vet school I only took out the amount of tuition and that's the plan for the next 3 years.. The goal is to graduate with about 120,000 total.

 

[Frozenshades]

Maybe. You might also underestimate how hard it is to basically give up on your dreams after putting a ton of time and money into accomplishing a goal.

Say there's a student with $30,000 in undergraduate debt and a 3.9 GPA in animal biology, good test scores, and a boatload of volunteering. Do you really think they're all the sudden going to think "Wait.... this math doesn't work. I better bail and throw away most of the hard work I've already done." Even if that's the correct decision (and from what I've seen, it probably is for many if not most people), that's not how people actually think or act.

It's a tough spot and I just think it's easy to say "Meh, I wouldn't take on all this debt" if you are actually in a position not to (rich parents, super cheap state school and/or scholarship) but in reality this isn't going to be how most people think. Hence we have a higher education bubble and too many vets (which I guess benefits me... as Saint Bernards are expensive 🙁)

I agree, but I don't think I projected that others would share my thoughts, or if so that was not my intention. That was just my opinion based off of my perspective. And that's why I said I have a lot of respect for someone who would choose to walk away; it's a very hard thing to do and something I can only try to understand because I've never been in that situation.

 

[ESD_2029]

Two thoughts: I have to say reading this thread as a pre vet (chem major) and single woman makes me very dejected. It seems that the only way to manage the debt is to have a spouse assist you and rely on the two incomes to live/pay off debt. Or parents but my mother is in absolutely no spot financially to help me with the amounts of money vet school requires.

Second, has anyone successfully paid off their loans other than the vets I know who graduated years ago with $10k in debt? How fast are you projected to pay off your loans with someone helping financially, such as a spouse paying for living expenses and the majority of a second salary going to loans?

ETA: Obv it depends on the second salary but just an average 40k/50k/60k whatever a year ballpark. I'm not assuming anyone is married to a Wall Street banker living off 200k 🙂 If you are, though, kudos.

 

[katryn]

How fast are you projected to pay off your loans with someone helping financially, such as a spouse paying for living expenses and the majority of a second salary going to loans?

ETA: Obv it depends on the second salary but just an average 40k/50k/60k whatever a year ballpark. I'm not assuming anyone is married to a Wall Street banker living off 200k 🙂 If you are, though, kudos.

Hubby and I combined make 90k right now. About 60k a year goes towards living (4 person family). If we put 100% of the rest to my loans we could pay off in about 4.5-5 years. Realistically, we will probably pay off in about 7, because we are also putting some of that towards retirement and putting some money aside for eventually buying into a practice if the opportunity presents. (Hubby is an eggs in multiple baskets kind of guy with money.)

 

[psilovethomas]

I'm very fortunate in that my parents are helping me pay for school. I project to have $80-100k in debt, just depends on how much my parents help out. I am OOS at MSU, so I am extremely lucky that my parents are awesome and have good jobs. I will get ~$35k back from the state of Michigan when I graduate if I work in MI for a year after I graduate and all that money will go directly to my loans. So I will have somewhere between $45-65k in loans a year after graduation (- any income I use to pay off my loans). My SO is in medical school, and he will also graduate with $80k in loans. So together, we will be ~$160 k in debt when we graduate. Complicated, I know. We are hoping that my brother in law, who is a financial planner, will help us and give us idea of how we can tackle our loans together to get them paid off ASAP.

 

[ESD_2029]

Hubby and I combined make 90k right now. About 60k a year goes towards living (4 person family). If we put 100% of the rest to my loans we could pay off in about 4.5-5 years. Realistically, we will probably pay off in about 7, because we are also putting some of that towards retirement and putting some money aside for eventually buying into a practice if the opportunity presents. (Hubby is an eggs in multiple baskets kind of guy with money.)

Well that seems a little less bleak than I imagined. That's not out of the practical realm either which is nice! Thank you for your transparency with your financial status it's appreciated 🙂


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[katryn]

Well that seems a little less bleak than I imagined. That's not out of the practical realm either which is nice! Thank you for your transparency with your financial status it's appreciated 🙂


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No problem. 🙂 I'm a huge advocate of being financially aware before making a decision about vet school, but I also feel bad when people walk away feeling like it absolutely can't be done and still have a life.

 

[lhmhtd]

No problem. 🙂 I'm a huge advocate of being financially aware before making a decision about vet school, but I also feel bad when people walk away feeling like it absolutely can't be done and still have a life.

This makes me feel much better. That will be similar to our combined income after vet school (assuming I get into a residency somewhere and they pay about $30k a yr which is about average). I'm planning on pursuing pathology, so it will be literally over a decade before I can contribute much to our combined yearly income. At any rate, we are planning on living off of one salary, and using the other towards loans. We do want kids but not for another 12-15 years (yes I'll be the old uncool mom at all the birthday parties). I'm glad to hear it is at least feasible. It may not be ideal but it sounds like it can be done with proper budgeting.
Thanks!

 

[primatevetjess]

I should add that it's true, my IBR payments do not even cover the monthly interest. My current plan is to make 10 years of IBR payments while continuing to work in academia. Then apply for PSLF. The amount forgiven under that program is not taxable.

Of course, there's been a lot of talk about that program going away and I still have 9 years of payments to make. If that happens, I am completely screwed. The "marry rich" boat already sailed. I married for love instead, and my husband's income is less than mine, even though I'm still a resident.

So yeah... maybe don't go to vet school if you can be happy doing anything else at all.

 

[Gwenevre]

Whats the general thought on the rural loan forgiveness programs? I know they exist in some states, though last time I looked a lot of the programs are failing to be funded.

 

[Beetlejay]

I graduated 2 years ago with 100, 000 in debt. I have put about 80% of my take-home pay towards repaying it and am now at 40, 000. It has left me with no money for anything else, but i'm lucky in that my husband covers the rent and house bills. I want to pay it off so i can eventually start saving for a down payment on a house. The debt is brutal! It is such a drain on the economy because we will all be too strapped paying off our debt that we won't be investing retirement savings or the housing market. Sigh.

 

[MassDVMMPH]

Just wanted to warn people against rolling your spouse's student loans into yours when consolidating. If you do this, you become responsible for your spouse's loans - even if your spouse dies. If you keep the loans separate, if your spouse dies, his student loans die with him. If they are consolidated with yours, you are responsible for them even if he is no longer alive. If you have already done this, please take out a life insurance policy on your spouse for the amount of his loans. That way, if the worst happens, you will not be faced with paying off his student loans for the rest of your life. We were warned about this by our financial advisor in vet school. She told us if we remembered anything at all from her talk, it should be to NEVER consolidate your student loans with anyone else's.

Oh, I guess they don't allow Federal student loans to be consolidated between spouses anymore (one good thing the government has done), but the above is still good to remember for those of you with private loans. No one likes to think about it, but 50% of marriages end in divorce and young people do die, and consolidation of loans is forever. There is no way to separate them after the fact, so just don't do it.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I've paid off 3 out of my 6 student loans (admittedly my smallest ones)!

That puts me at <$100k in student loans now.

In one way or another, I've thus far paid $85,000, where $24,000 went to interest.

About $35,000 was paid by replacing a higher interest rate loan by a lower interest rate loan.

Taking that out of the equation, I personally paid $50,500 where $9,000 went to interest.


I've been paying $3000 per month, where my monthly interest is now $470 and dropping... So my principal will be going down $2500+ per month.

If nothing changes, I think I'll be able to pay this off in 3 years or less. That may mean that I could be infertile before I can buy a house and have kids, and I won't be saving anything for retirement until I'm in my mid-30s... But I won't be a slave to my student loans in a short period of time. I just need to not lose my job.

 

[jestry]

I'm guessing I'll be at around 120k by the time I graduate. Though thankfully part of it is to my parents, so there's no interest compounding there. I worked summers during vet school and a tiny bit (~10 hours/week for 2 semesters) during 1st and 2nd year. My parents were nice enough to pay for undergrad. I'm hoping to go into a residency program that pays decently (40k/yr), which means I can pay my loans off at the rate of 30k/year (at least, so far I've been able to live on around 10k/year in vet school...). Depending on how much interest compounds, I should be able to pay everything off within 3-4 years. Either by the time I finish my residency, or after the first year out. Would be even faster if I went the private practice route if the residency thing didn't work out but I'm still leaning more towards the residency.

I'm single with no kids, so I guess not everyone is in the same boat. I hate the fact that I'm accumulating debt, but at the same time, I feel like I've got the situation somewhat under control (or at least, I will once I graduate) and the situation isn't as terrible as I keep hearing it to be.

EDIT: Just looked up cost of living in other places. Maybe this plan won't go as smoothly. Been spoiled at how cheap everything is here in College Station. 🙁 Still, gotta believe it can be done!

 

[Jess Monster]

EDIT: Just looked up cost of living in other places. Maybe this plan won't go as smoothly. Been spoiled at how cheap everything is here in College Station. 🙁 Still, gotta believe it can be done!

... about to say, living on less than $1000/month is pretty cheap. Does that include car insurance, cell phone, etc?

 

[Minnerbelle]

Also remember that you pay taxes on the $40k income, and at $120k debt you're looking at like $6000-7000 per year in interest even if you have no interest accumulated at graduation.

Suddenly that $30k that you can pay per year becomes something closer to $15k... even if cost of living remains as cheap as you have it now. $10k/year barely or won't cover rent plus utilities in crappy ****hole of apartments in some places. Either way, you're in a fairly fortunate position so whatever you have should be manageable.

 

[jestry]

Also remember that you pay taxes on the $40k income, and at $120k debt you're looking at like $6000-7000 per year in interest even if you have no interest accumulated at graduation.

Suddenly that $30k that you can pay per year becomes something closer to $15k... even if cost of living remains as cheap as you have it now. $10k/year barely or won't cover rent plus utilities in crappy ****hole of apartments in some places. Either way, you're in a fairly fortunate position so whatever you have should be manageable.

Gosh darn it. Dreamcrusher. Yeah I figured there was something about my calculations that seemed too easy. XD