How much do GPs make on average?

[Ezekiel20]

Okay, so I understand that the amount that GPs make depends on the situation, e.g. whether they work for a medical centre, own their own practice, the locale etc.

But when it comes to the average income, I've heard different things, for example that GPs in Sydney struggle to make 100K a year, or that they easily make 200K.

If anyone has any data on this, it's be greatly appreciated if you could share.



Thanks.

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[shan564]

I think that when people say they "struggle to make 100k", they're referring to early interns. A while ago, I posted a link to the standard base salaries in Queensland's public hospitals (you can probably find it if you search); I don't remember the exact numbers, but GPs were easily pulling over $200k and registrars were well over $100k. I can't imagine that NSW would be any less than QLD.

 

[Ezekiel20]

I think that when people say they "struggle to make 100k", they're referring to early interns. A while ago, I posted a link to the standard base salaries in Queensland's public hospitals (you can probably find it if you search); I don't remember the exact numbers, but GPs were easily pulling over $200k and registrars were well over $100k. I can't imagine that NSW would be any less than QLD.

Of course interns make less than 100K. My current base salary is 49K, and including overtime it looks like I'll earn about 70K before tax by the end of my intern year.

Not sure how what you mean by QLD's "public hospital base salaries for GPs", as nearly all GPs are essentially in private practice even though most of their income comes from Medicare payments.

 

[redshifteffect]

Of course interns make less than 100K. My current base salary is 49K, and including overtime it looks like I'll earn about 70K before tax by the end of my intern year.

Not sure how what you mean by QLD's "public hospital base salaries for GPs", as nearly all GPs are essentially in private practice even though most of their income comes from Medicare payments.

In terms of Intern salaries NSW and Victoria pay the lowest, so people working in QLD, TAS, WA and SA are making a lot more then you.

 

[Ezekiel20]

In terms of Intern salaries NSW and Victoria pay the lowest, so people working in QLD, TAS, WA and SA are making a lot more then you.

49K vs 55K base salary for interns in NSW and QLD respectively.

I wouldn't say interns in other states are making a lot more, but considering the cost of housing in Sydney (I currently share a $480/week 2-bedroom apartment), I can see how they might end up with more pay in their pockets.

Coming back to my original question - I'd appreciate it if anyone has any official data on average income for GPs in Australia.

 

[redshifteffect]

49K vs 55K base salary for interns in NSW and QLD respectively.

I wouldn't say interns in other states are making a lot more, but considering the cost of housing in Sydney (I currently share a $480/week 2-bedroom apartment), I can see how they might end up with more pay in their pockets.

Coming back to my original question - I'd appreciate it if anyone has any official data on average income for GPs in Australia.

Base salary isn't where the big difference is, QLD is much more generous in their overtime pay. SA, WA and TAS are probably the most generous in their base pay as well as their overtime pay.

The information you're looking for won't be found on this forum...you're better off asking at pagingdr.

 

[Ezekiel20]

Base salary isn't where the big difference is, QLD is much more generous in their overtime pay. SA, WA and TAS are probably the most generous in their base pay as well as their overtime pay.

The information you're looking for won't be found on this forum...you're better off asking at pagingdr.

Unrostered overtime rates are 1.25x normal for first 2 hours, then 1.5x for every hour after that.

I've gotten every hour I've claimed so far, but some hospitals are known for not paying you overtime unless you had good reason to stay (other than not having finished all the work).

And for those wondering about base salaries for interns in each state, here they are from highest to lowest:

- SA: 57K
- QLD: 56K
- WA: 53.5K
- TAS: 53K
- NSW: 50K (thought it was 49K but it's actually 49.9K)
- ACT: 50K
- NT: 49K
- VIC: 47K

(source: Intern and residents guide 2008, AMSA)

 

[redshifteffect]

Unrostered overtime rates are 1.25x normal for first 2 hours, then 1.5x for every hour after that.

I've gotten every hour I've claimed so far, but some hospitals are known for not paying you overtime unless you had good reason to stay (other than not having finished all the work).

And for those wondering about base salaries for interns in each state, here they are from highest to lowest:

- SA: 57K
- QLD: 56K
- WA: 53.5K
- TAS: 53K
- NSW: 50K (thought it was 49K but it's actually 49.9K)
- ACT: 50K
- NT: 49K
- VIC: 47K

(source: Intern and residents guide 2008, AMSA)

AMSA guides are out of date for Tasmania...but I'm not sure about the other states. As for overtime we were getting 2.0x overtime regularly and 2.5 -3.0 for weekends or public holidays. We probably had more unrostered overtime then you?

Most of our teams had only a single intern, with the exception of the professorial medical and surgical teams.

Also it seems like in NSW at the end of the financial year you guys don't get a 5% increase in your salary? I think it was some sort of contract that the junior doctors had, that every financial year we'd get a 5% increase in salary. So in June my base increased.

How much do you get in your network for when you're oncall but not in the hospital?

 

[shan564]

Here's the thread I was talking about:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=517916

 

[JanikeyDoc]

This article seems to have a number on what GPs earn:
http://www.australiandoctor.com.au/news/3a/0c04d33a.asp

From the article it seems as though GPs earn far more than 200k a year.

 

[redshifteffect]

Ezekiel,

I think this is probably the wrong group of people to ask, many of us who are interested in practicing in Australia are under the 10 year moratorium, making it almost impossible to practice as a GP in Sydney.

I can say however that as a GP you have essentially two options you can work Fee for Service in a private setting or as a salaried GP in an Aboriginal clinic. In these clinics base salary is definitely lower (I've seen ads in Redfern clinics for 150k-200k) however you get government incentives on top of this salary because it's considered an area of need (ie automatically Zone 7 under previous RRMA rules). Thus I've successfully seen registrars claim RRIPS money by working in an aboriginal clinic in Sydney. Lucky not many Australians know they can do it, so they through a lack of knowledge and research miss out on a lot of extra money.

Now private practice is a different game. If you known your own practice you can make 300k+ particularly if you do things like antenatal care, or minor surgery or skincare clinics (you know high paying, less time consuming work that doesn't require much extra mal practice insurance). However you have to be a good businessperson to run a clinic. I find it surprising that I know more about medicare benifits and how to maximise a GP clinic (and I'm not a GP) then a lot of prinicples at these clinics...that just shows you how good at business most GPs are. I've been collecting a lot of this info since med school. You know even simple things like medication reviews in elderly patients can net GPs $100+ and all it involves is a referal to a pharmacist!!

http://www.dva.gov.au/health/provider/pharmacy/medrevu.htm
www.outbackdivision.org.au/client_images/324991.pdf

In any other business not knowing even simple stuff like that could send you into bankruptcy, yet many GPs still make a living.

If you work for someone else I've been trolling through a lot of GP journals and the going rate in Sydney is 200k-250k working for someone else. Howover there is a strong pressure to bill more then this amount, but it's more then manageable. However if I were to do GP as a local I'd rather live on the outskirts of Sydney and commute out to Wollongong or Newcastle where the pay is better and overheads would be less...but again I'm thinking from a business perspective, not from a GP perspective. Another factor is where you want to work, if you work in an underserved area of Sydney like the Western Suburbs in general the pays are a lot higher. Working in the East and Downtown it seems like the salaries are a bit less, so it also depends where you are happy to work.

BTW why the interest in GP, I thought I was going to be doing path reports for you next year?

 

[redshifteffect]

Hey Janikeydoc, I mean JoeNama welcome back...how's life as an intern?

 

[Ezekiel20]

Thanks for the input everyone.

RSE, I've been considering surgery for a long time, have already taken steps toward a surgical career, and before I make irreversible decisions further along this path (such as doing all surg related terms in my RMO year, enrolling in a 20K Masters degree, and doing 3-4 royal college approved courses at 2K a pop), I'm giving other career paths a serious consideration.

Currently considering medicine, GP, and O&G as alternative career paths.

I know and understand a fair bit about physician training already, but for GP and O&G I had to visit websites and read.

If I chose surg/physician/O&G then I know I'll be making enough in my job and I'd be training for long enough such that the 10-yr moratorium is much less of an issue, but for GP I was concerned about the moratorium as well as income, and hence my two threads on this topic.

 

[redshifteffect]

Thanks for the input everyone.

RSE, I've been considering surgery for a long time, have already taken steps toward a surgical career, and before I make irreversible decisions further along this path (such as doing all surg related terms in my RMO year, enrolling in a 20K Masters degree, and doing 3-4 royal college approved courses at 2K a pop), I'm giving other career paths a serious consideration.

Currently considering medicine, GP, and O&G as alternative career paths.

I know and understand a fair bit about physician training already, but for GP and O&G I had to visit websites and read.

If I chose surg/physician/O&G then I know I'll be making enough in my job and I'd be training for long enough such that the 10-yr moratorium is much less of an issue, but for GP I was concerned about the moratorium as well as income, and hence my two threads on this topic.

That makes sense, so good luck with whatever you choose! I've been there so I know how confusing it can be.

As for GP the moratorium won't really be a huge problem, I think there was another thread that did show that there are still places that you can work in capital cities that are exempt. Worse case you end up in an Aboriginal medical centre in the city, as they are automatically classed as "area of need".

GP salaries can be very lucrative, personally I haven't met a GP making less then 200k, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there. There's more risk involved though since there is a definite business aspect to it.

 

[Ezekiel20]

Cheers, and good luck to you too.