How much do Letters of Rec count

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oburger

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One of the biggest worries anyone applying to school is getting those Letters of Recommendation


I'm from a large 26,000 student school and getting Letters was tough. Most professors have huge 400+ classes and TA's even have 80+ students spread out through a few discussion sections.

So I'm having trouble finding professors who can write a "personable and interesting" LOR. I guess its different from small liberal arts colleges that boast small teacher student ratios and every body knows almost everyone else.

I really hope med school's Adcom's give some slack to applicatons to Large U's.

I know, I know, people are going to tell me that, I need to put in extra effort to get to know professor's... yada yada.... but after a few years, its hard to remember people, and honestly, I think students should be genuine when going to see a professor for help. Don't go just because you want a Letter later down the road.

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ooh... I forgot to mention, I did eventually get them, though the professors said that, it'll be pretty much "cut and dry" Eeeekss

oh well, hopefully everyone has strong points and weak points on their applications. :rolleyes:

maybe a good MCAT score and good Personal Statement to offset so so LOR's. Oh well
 
A hell of a lot...I may venture to say they may be as important as the MCAT and GPA...it can help you with any deficiencies if its good, but can also hurt you badly if its bad even if you have everything else good
 
23.8%. But only during the months of August-November. The statistics become uncontrollable and unpredictable after that.
 
yeah, getting a lor is difficult when you are at a big university...but like they said above, it's important. networking is good, don't be shy!!! i used to hide out in the back of the class, so i can identify with not wanting to get to know anyone. but, having someone to recommend you is critical. Your grades will speak for themselves.

cut and dry??? gosh, why would a person even tell you this about a lor?
 
oburger said:
One of the biggest worries anyone applying to school is getting those Letters of Recommendation


I'm from a large 26,000 student school and getting Letters was tough. Most professors have huge 400+ classes and TA's even have 80+ students spread out through a few discussion sections.

So I'm having trouble finding professors who can write a "personable and interesting" LOR. I guess its different from small liberal arts colleges that boast small teacher student ratios and every body knows almost everyone else.

I really hope med school's Adcom's give some slack to applicatons to Large U's.

I know, I know, people are going to tell me that, I need to put in extra effort to get to know professor's... yada yada.... but after a few years, its hard to remember people, and honestly, I think students should be genuine when going to see a professor for help. Don't go just because you want a Letter later down the road.


I also went to a large school, but I had professors specifically tell us to come and talk to them during their office hours if we wanted letters down the road. Also, it might be too late now, but it is easiest to ask for letters right when the class ends (i.e. Org chem prof at the end of sophmore year) and just let your advisor hang on to them until you apply.
 
BozoSparky said:
yeah, getting a lor is difficult when you are at a big university...but like they said above, it's important. networking is good, don't be shy!!! i used to hide out in the back of the class, so i can identify with not wanting to get to know anyone. but, having someone to recommend you is critical. Your grades will speak for themselves.

cut and dry??? gosh, why would a person even tell you this about a lor?

Maybe because the professor doesn't really know him?? I do agree with him though. It's pretty lame all the kids who go to office hours and pretend to have problems just to know them and use them for LoR's. Waste of a professor's time if you ask me.
 
For those who say "a lot," how do you know?

I mean, I understand having a good/great LOR is better than not, but aren't all LORs going to be about the same? I mean, aren't all premeds going to get letters, aren't they all going to say "s/he's swell!" - so really, how much can they matter?

Maybe I'm missing something... hm....
 
dantt said:
Maybe because the professor doesn't really know him?? I do agree with him though. It's pretty lame all the kids who go to office hours and pretend to have problems just to know them and use them for LoR's. Waste of a professor's time if you ask me.

It depends.... the prof is going to be sitting there waiting for students whether you come talk to them or not. It could potentially waste your classmates time if they really are there for help.
 
swtiepie711 said:
For those who say "a lot," how do you know?

I mean, I understand having a good/great LOR is better than not, but aren't all LORs going to be about the same? I mean, aren't all premeds going to get letters, aren't they all going to say "s/he's swell!" - so really, how much can they matter?

Maybe I'm missing something... hm....

No they are definitly not the same...it should be unique about you. It should provide examples of how you display the qualities of a physician. They do matter a hell of a lot...according to the 12 medical school Deans I have spoken with. LORs can make you or break you...its the icing on the cake
 
I know they count a lot, i've heard all of the NC admissions deans say how important they are. However, i can't seem to imagine that they all don't sound the same. I mean, I still can't figure out what a prof. could say in a letter to make THAT big of a difference.
 
Falco2525 said:
No they are definitly not the same...it should be unique about you. It should provide examples of how you display the qualities of a physician. They do matter a hell of a lot...according to the 12 medical school Deans I have spoken with. LORs can make you or break you...its the icing on the cake
12 Deans? DAMN!! :laugh:
 
CTtarheel said:
I know they count a lot, i've heard all of the NC admissions deans say how important they are. However, i can't seem to imagine that they all don't sound the same. I mean, I still can't figure out what a prof. could say in a letter to make THAT big of a difference.

The prof might say that the student is a nut and sent threatening emails because he wanted a point back on his quiz :laugh:
 
The application basically breaks down as follows:

GPA- indicator of the type of student you are
MCAT- indicator of what your knowledge base is/ potential is/ standardized basis of comparison between applicants
Personal statement- Demonstrates that you are able to communicate your thoughts effectively, and also an opportunity to gain some insight into who you are.
LORs- insights into your character/what type of student you are
ECs- demonstrates that you had a life outside of school, and didn't spend 24/7 with your nose in a book. Also gives further insight into what type of person you are

Pairing sections together can lead to futher extrapolations:
High MCAT/ Low GPA = lazy student (depending on known rigor of undergraduate institution)
Low MCAT/ High GPA = hard worker but hasn't grasped material (also dependent on undergrad school)

A cut and dried LOR shows that the writer doesn't really know you at all. It likely reads "X was a student in my basketweaving 101 class, and his/her attendence was good. S/he didn't fall asleep much during lecture. S/he got an A." That didn't tell the adcomm anything that they couldn't have figured out from your transcript.

You're essentially trying to paint a picture of yourself for the adcomm with your application. There's overlap between a few of the sections, but if too much is missing from any area...it's going to be an uphill battle.

Best of luck.
 
CTtarheel said:
I know they count a lot, i've heard all of the NC admissions deans say how important they are. However, i can't seem to imagine that they all don't sound the same. I mean, I still can't figure out what a prof. could say in a letter to make THAT big of a difference.

he could say, "this is one of the most brilliant kids i have taught in mol. bio in 25 years at Yale, or he could say, the student was definitely above average in my class, or he could say, this student showed steady improvement in the 3 semesters i have taught him, or he could say, although his grade was below average, i believe he understands the fundamentals of mol. bio and is prepared for the rigors of medical school"

i think the differences are apparent here.
 
BozoSparky said:
cut and dry??? gosh, why would a person even tell you this about a lor?

Well, it's better to ask the prof in advance if he is able to write a good one. A honest response is totally necessary since it's unrealistic to assume the professor of a 400 seat lecture remembers anyone. I go to a large public school also and got very lucky that I had a few small classes with good teachers. My experience asking for non academic LORs was quite different though.

me: "could you write me a strong LOR?"

PI 1: "come by my office and i'll write you a generic one"

PI 2: "i'm busy. ask me through email. i have to write you one, it's my job"

:confused:
no thank you.
 
swtiepie711 said:
For those who say "a lot," how do you know?

I mean, I understand having a good/great LOR is better than not, but aren't all LORs going to be about the same? I mean, aren't all premeds going to get letters, aren't they all going to say "s/he's swell!" - so really, how much can they matter?

Maybe I'm missing something... hm....

Cousin is on admissions committee *shrug*

I have had the priviledge of seeing some of my own letters as well as some other people's letters. They are not the same at all. To be frank, you will almost definitely get a form letter if the letter is from a hospital volunteering program...Most PI's on the other hand will write very good letters. That is in fact part of their job description. If they don't write good letters, people will less likely work for them because at the end of the day, as an undergraduate student/graduate student/post doc, that's the main thing you're getting from it.
 
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