How much does a graduate degree help?

[DJ Sherpa]

Hi, reapplying this year, and I am finishing up my masters this summer. My undergrad gpa was a 3.3 and my masters was a 3.86. I am pretty sure that the gpa is what killed me last year in applying, and I was just wondering if anyone knew if they would look more at the masters gpa than the undergrad?

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[RxnMan]

Hi, reapplying this year, and I am finishing up my masters this summer. My undergrad gpa was a 3.3 and my masters was a 3.86. I am pretty sure that the gpa is what killed me last year in applying, and I was just wondering if anyone knew if they would look more at the masters gpa than the undergrad?

Here's my opinion.

 

[vkhalsa]

Hi, reapplying this year, and I am finishing up my masters this summer. My undergrad gpa was a 3.3 and my masters was a 3.86. I am pretty sure that the gpa is what killed me last year in applying, and I was just wondering if anyone knew if they would look more at the masters gpa than the undergrad?

from what i've heard/read, they look at your undergrad gpa much more closely than your grad gpa. nevertheless it doesn't hurt to show a 3.86 in graduate level coursework.

 

[pokeytu]

They do look more heavily at your undergrad gpa, but if you have a upward trend it will help reinforce that. What does help applications is the experience of grad school: independent research, publications, investigating interests in an area related to medicine which can backup your decision to become a doctor. The course work in grad school is secondary to the learning from your research and conferences attended.

 

[Dr Trek 1]

Grad school GPAs are a joke, and it is common knowledge. In grad. school, grades are heavily inflated. Never think that your grad GPA in and of itself is going to help you in admissions.

What may help you, however, is the experience and added knowledge you obtained while getting the graduate degree.

 

[MSc44]

Grad school GPAs are a joke, and it is common knowledge. In grad. school, grades are heavily inflated. Never think that your grad GPA in and of itself is going to help you in admissions.

What may help you, however, is the experience and added knowledge you obtained while getting the graduate degree.

i think thats a huge load of crap!
My Grad degree was not easy, Classes like grad genetics, medical genetics, cancer biology, and advanced physiological chem are no walk in the park, and although i graduated with a 4.0 i worked my tits off. the only differance was it was more focused and you no longer had to prove how smart you were. The reason they accepted us into the program was because they knew we were smart

 

[Dr Trek 1]

i think thats a huge load of crap!
My Grad degree was not easy, Classes like grad genetics, medical genetics, cancer biology, and advanced physiological chem are no walk in the park, and although i graduated with a 4.0 i worked my tits off. the only differance was it was more focused and you no longer had to prove how smart you were. The reason they accepted us into the program was because they knew we were smart

Your graduate program was the exception rather than the rule.

 

[vkhalsa]

Your graduate program was the exception rather than the rule.

I don't know about a blanket statement that grad classes are easier or grades are inflated, but I think it comes down to knowing how to pick your classes. Knowing one class is a b*tch and another is a joke can account for a lot.

 

[pokeytu]

I think it is pretty fair to say graduate grades are inflated. At most programs to remain in the program you have to maintain a 3.0. So in return, teachers don't give many Cs because it is essentially failing a student. Anyways the course work is not the focus of graduate school, it is just ment to supplement your research. The majority of graduate programs only make you take 2-3 classes a semester so that you can spend your time in the lab.

 

[Manjot]

i think thats a huge load of crap!
My Grad degree was not easy, Classes like grad genetics, medical genetics, cancer biology, and advanced physiological chem are no walk in the park, and although i graduated with a 4.0 i worked my tits off. the only differance was it was more focused and you no longer had to prove how smart you were. The reason they accepted us into the program was because they knew we were smart

You "worked your tits off," first time I've seen that happen. Lol. J/K

 

[vkhalsa]

I think it is pretty fair to say graduate grades are inflated. At most programs to remain in the program you have to maintain a 3.0. So in return, teachers don't give many Cs because it is essentially failing a student. Anyways the course work is not the focus of graduate school, it is just ment to supplement your research. The majority of graduate programs only make you take 2-3 classes a semester so that you can spend your time in the lab.

it really depends on the program. True, professors don't give many C's but again, it depends on the class and the class grading format. I did an MS in Bio and took 18 & 20 credits each semester and didn't touch a lab. (who wants to pipette and spin down all day?) the classes were comperable to upper level undergrad bio classes. but ya, my point is just that it depends on what type of masters you get and what classes you take in that program. i know a lot of kids in my program who didn't do any research.

 

[microgin]

To the OP, I'm not sure if you're applying MD or DO, but they each seem to look at graduate GPAs differently. Allopathic schools do not seem to place much weight on grad school GPAs, but according to folks on the pre-osteo board, Osteopathic schools calculate your GPA in numerous ways, and one of which includes factoring in your Grad GPA with your UGrad GPA. You might want to check out that forum for more info.

 

[EvoDevo]

Something to keep in mind as well is that your state school(s) [especially in Texas] do seem to care about the grad GPA and courses you took. That was my experience.

 

[Scottish Chap]

Hi, reapplying this year, and I am finishing up my masters this summer. My undergrad gpa was a 3.3 and my masters was a 3.86. I am pretty sure that the gpa is what killed me last year in applying, and I was just wondering if anyone knew if they would look more at the masters gpa than the undergrad?

All medical schools will see a separate GPA for the undergrad and grad school GPA on your application form. As a rule of thumb, they care mostly about the undergraduate GPA. However, a fine showing in graduate school and publications (you didn't say what the grad degree is in) can sway them. Try to get published if you're in the sciences. I promise that this is a huge help.

 

[fitnessexpert]

I know that admissions people look at graduate classes and degrees as an indication that you can do the more advanced classes. It may not be "weighted" differently by a technical prospective, but it is great to see that you are capable of doing the work.

 

[MrTee]

As a person who went through the application process with a graduate degree (research, not SMP) and a horrendous undergrad GPA, I can tell you that the grad GPA is probably not going to help you much. Regardless of how hard you worked to earn your 3.9 or whatever in your program, admissions committees will still use your undergrad GPA as the main cutoff for the first pass in their selection process. If you have a super MCAT, you may slip by, but it's certainly no guarantee. If you can get through that screen, then they'll look further into your app. I agree though with previous posters that the main benefits of research based grad programs are the "extras" provided such as papers, awesome LORs, etc.

 

[Haemulon]

As a person who went through the application process with a graduate degree (research, not SMP) and a horrendous undergrad GPA, I can tell you that the grad GPA is probably not going to help you much. Regardless of how hard you worked to earn your 3.9 or whatever in your program, admissions committees will still use your undergrad GPA as the main cutoff for the first pass in their selection process. If you have a super MCAT, you may slip by, but it's certainly no guarantee. If you can get through that screen, then they'll look further into your app. I agree though with previous posters that the main benefits of research based grad programs are the "extras" provided such as papers, awesome LORs, etc.

I agree with the "extras". I am now working on my second MS degree (first one was in Biology, second is in biomedical sciences/clinical embryology). My undergrad gpa was average (3.4) but have 3.88/4.0 respectively since then. MCAT is a decent 30R. My main benefit, I think, will be in being able to show maturity of my interests, have a lot to talk about in terms of research and teaching, and in general showing a committment to pursuing my path towards medicine. Interviews, I imagine, can be a bit strained if all the EC's you have to talk about are your summer job at McDonalds and undergrad air guitar competitions.

 

[lovetolearn]

Your graduate program was the exception rather than the rule.

Unless you have been trough a graduate program, you should not make such broad statements because they are entirely false ...getting a Ph.D. is not a walk in the park... I know!!! and also know many friends who failed out because they did not get the required 3.0, so there goes the theory that profs won't give grad students Cs.

 

[jdawt]

Unless you have been trough a graduate program, you should not make such broad statements because they are entirely false ...getting a Ph.D. is not a walk in the park... I know!!! and also know many friends who failed out because they did not get the required 3.0, so there goes the theory that profs won't give grad students Cs.

I think the OP means masters programs and not PhDs... I believe everyone realizes that PhD is difficult.

I am working on a Master of Public Health and will finish before matriculating into medical school (hopefully). I am not relying on my GPA to get into medical school though as my undergrad GPAs should be plenty to get looked at (see MDapps link). However, I've always been interested in public health and would have probably gotten the degree at some point later in time.

In any case, I think the main reason medical schools don't use graduate GPAs the same as they do Ugrad GPAs is simply because of what is happening on this forum. While many programs do have inflation, others don't, and it's almost impossible (from their prospective) to compare one applicant's graduate grades to another's. But then again, I'm just speculating and this could be true of many undergrad institutions too

 

[MissCutie]

Hi, reapplying this year, and I am finishing up my masters this summer. My undergrad gpa was a 3.3 and my masters was a 3.86. I am pretty sure that the gpa is what killed me last year in applying, and I was just wondering if anyone knew if they would look more at the masters gpa than the undergrad?

I would just call the schools you're interested in and ask. I'm sure some schools might way the undergrad GPA more heavily, but some schools really will pay attention to your masters GPA.

Example: Wayne State University School of Medicine has communicated on the phone that if you do at least 20 credits in a Masters program, they will be willing to look at your Masters GPA over your undergrad GPA. This comment was made in reference to hard science Masters programs used by students with low BCPM GPAs. Most likely not the same at all schools, but just something to be aware of.

 

[^=^]

MissCutie is right, Give them a call

 

[Pewl]

Grad school GPAs are a joke, and it is common knowledge. In grad. school, grades are heavily inflated. Never think that your grad GPA in and of itself is going to help you in admissions.

What may help you, however, is the experience and added knowledge you obtained while getting the graduate degree.

My experience is that the grad GPA is weighed less than ugrad - by the time you get to grad school, you are expected to do well, and there's less work load than ugrad. Otherwise my grad GPA of 3.6 would have got me into schools sooner. Instead, the schools judged my fitness as an applicant based on my 2.35 ugrad GPA.

Oh my god, I can't believe you guys said that. My first year of grad school nearly KILLED me. You try going from bio undergrad to physics grad. =P The coursework in grad school is killer. PLUS you gotta take the qualifiers and all. Grad school is so much more intense than undergrad, and much more intellectually challenging. Of course, I can't speak for those "soft" master's programs that are like 1 year long and basically have you retake prereq courses all over again. But, the program I was in is actually a PhD program, I just chose to leave after I got my MS.

 

[Lindyhopper]

Grad school GPAs are a joke, and it is common knowledge. In grad. school, grades are heavily inflated. . . .

I found that my grad Bio courses were much, much more detailed and rigourous than undergrad classes.
In our University some Bio seminars are cross listed between upper division undergrad & grad. Grad students are required to write longer more in depth papers & told they will be graded on a stricter curve.
In many SMP-type programs many of the courses are grad courses.

Has anyone ever taken an actual grad course in biochem, physiology, or molecular genetics are thought it was a joke?

 

[Noeljan]

I found that my grad Bio courses were much, much more detailed and rigourous than undergrad classes.
In our University some Bio seminars are cross listed between upper division undergrad & grad. Grad students are required to write longer more in depth papers & told they will be graded on a stricter curve.
In many SMP-type programs many of the courses are grad courses.

Has anyone ever taken an actual grad course in biochem, physiology, or molecular genetics are thought it was a joke?

I sooo agree with you. I am doing my masters in biochem, and while I have a high GPA (3.95) I had to work soooo hard for that. Basically in grad school you do work all day and night, and have to know every detail!!!! Wayyyy more work than any undergrad courses I have ever taken and I have two UG degrees.

 

[RxnMan]

Oh my god, I can't believe you guys said that. My first year of grad school nearly KILLED me. You try going from bio undergrad to physics grad. =P The coursework in grad school is killer. PLUS you gotta take the qualifiers and all. Grad school is so much more intense than undergrad, and much more intellectually challenging. Of course, I can't speak for those "soft" master's programs that are like 1 year long and basically have you retake prereq courses all over again. But, the program I was in is actually a PhD program, I just chose to leave after I got my MS.

Perhaps my experience (BS Engineering -> MS Chemistry) has hardened me to academic abuse!

I've always liked/had a talent for chemstry, so I didn't think it was that hard. Yeah, there were times I had to stay up late or work for a week on a single problem, but even then, I never missed getting a solid 8 hours of sleep every night (which NEVER happend in ugrad), and tough problems are the meat & potatoes of research. I actually enjoyed taking on those big problems that may or may not have an answer (which is closer to real life anyways). You just took a swing at it and you defended your work, just like real life. And sometimes even the profs didn't know how to solve the problems they gave out.

In our University some Bio seminars are cross listed between upper division undergrad & grad. Grad students are required to write longer more in depth papers & told they will be graded on a stricter curve.
In many SMP-type programs many of the courses are grad courses.

Has anyone ever taken an actual grad course in biochem, physiology, or molecular genetics are thought it was a joke?

I took a cross-listed biomechanics class in grad school, and it also had higher expectations of grad students (longer tests, projects on your own instead of groups, no curve).

I took a 400-level Biochem class that was a joke to me, but that was after working in a cancer lab for a couple years, so I already knew half the material. Then again, I doubt that it went into same detail that med schools will.

 

[Dr Trek 1]

Keep in mind the incredible variation in graduate degrees. A graduate degree in english, for instance, is easier than an undergrad. degree in English by many accounts. A graduate degree in a natural science is typically more difficult than an undergraduate degree in natural science.

But, in general, it can be said that typically there is much more grade inflation at the graduate level, especially considering that a C is usually the lowest grade that you can get.

 

[njbmd]

Hi, reapplying this year, and I am finishing up my masters this summer. My undergrad gpa was a 3.3 and my masters was a 3.86. I am pretty sure that the gpa is what killed me last year in applying, and I was just wondering if anyone knew if they would look more at the masters gpa than the undergrad?

Hi there,
At one point in time, many students with marginal undergraduate GPAs were encouraged to do a graduate degree to "enhance" their medical school application. This is no longer the case. If you need to do "damage control" for a poor undergraduate GPA, then do post bacc work but do not enter a graduate program expecting that it will buff your medical school application.

Students in graduate school are expected to do well. After all, you are studying more intensely, a subject that interests you. High grades in graduate school are not so much a product of grade inflation as student interest in the subject matter. To that end, graduate grades are not weighted as heavily as undergraduate work.

The best use of graduate study and experience is to gain significant research experience and contribute to a body of knowledge by publications. That being said, a Ph.D in a subject is not going to make you a "shoo in" for medical school unless you have a competitive application otherwise and can make a good case for why getting another doctorate will enhance your career plans.

So to answer your question: Your graduate degree grades will not be weighted as heavily as your undergraduate degree grades but they will be taken into context within the competitivness of your entire application. Having that masters degree certainly will not hurt you but it may not be as much of a boost as you would like to believe.

njbmd

 

[beetlerum]

Keep in mind the incredible variation in graduate degrees. A graduate degree in english, for instance, is easier than an undergrad. degree in English by many accounts. A graduate degree in a natural science is typically more difficult than an undergraduate degree in natural science.

But, in general, it can be said that typically there is much more grade inflation at the graduate level, especially considering that a C is usually the lowest grade that you can get.

There can be more grade inflation and the degree can still be harder. I don't think you're saying that a PhD in English is easier than an undergrad degree in English. The grad degree is probably harder, but there is probably more grad inflation in the courses.

 

[Haemulon]

I think it is pretty fair to say graduate grades are inflated. At most programs to remain in the program you have to maintain a 3.0. So in return, teachers don't give many Cs because it is essentially failing a student. Anyways the course work is not the focus of graduate school, it is just ment to supplement your research. The majority of graduate programs only make you take 2-3 classes a semester so that you can spend your time in the lab.

There are far fewer C's in grad school because the students know that if their GPA falls below a certain value, typically around 3.0, then they won't graduate and can get kicked out of the program. Its a study hard and do well or get the heck out scenario. Speaking as one who is almost done with his second Masters, I can vouch that you do indeed have to work hard to get your grades. It is true that you may only take 2-3 classes (I have taken as many as 5) per semester in grad school; however, the amount of time spent in the lab doing research and in the library reading can amount to an additional 40 or so hours a week on top of classes. Add to this teaching assistantships for which one needs to prepare lesson plans and review material, as well as research assistantships in other labs, and you can find yourself virtually living there. I have spent a number of nights in the lab, breaking to sleep on my TA desk while a gel was running. This time committment varies per student and per program obviously, but the proof is in the pudding. Its virtually impossible to fake your way through the final oral exam in front of a panel of PhD's all grilling you on virtually any random topic they wish. Now thats hard.

 

[Haemulon]

The SMOD is right though. The real value of a grad degree is in the experiences, and I would add maturity, that one gains from this kind of independent research and collaboration on a graduate level. Perhaps grades are not weighted as heavily, but the EC's for grad school tend to be more substantial than undergrad. It gives a more heavy-weight aura to your EC list, something interesting and pertinant to talk to your interviewers about, adds to the number of glowing LOR's from people who get to know you very well, and may even lend a little help to mitigating that mediocre undergrad GPA one may have.

 

[christvida]

I completely agree. I'm in the process of writing research proposals and abstracts for conferences and it takes long hours and plenty of stress to make it through. Several of my classmates have been in danger of flunking out because they couldn't cut it. This experience is not something that people will ever understand unless they have personally gone through it. So if you only have a B.S. or B.A. behind your name then you really can't understand how difficult grad school is.

There are far fewer C's in grad school because the students know that if their GPA falls below a certain value, typically around 3.0, then they won't graduate and can get kicked out of the program. Its a study hard and do well or get the heck out scenario. Speaking as one who is almost done with his second Masters, I can vouch that you do indeed have to work hard to get your grades. It is true that you may only take 2-3 classes (I have taken as many as 5) per semester in grad school; however, the amount of time spent in the lab doing research and in the library reading can amount to an additional 40 or so hours a week on top of classes. Add to this teaching assistantships for which one needs to prepare lesson plans and review material, as well as research assistantships in other labs, and you can find yourself virtually living there. I have spent a number of nights in the lab, breaking to sleep on my TA desk while a gel was running. This time committment varies per student and per program obviously, but the proof is in the pudding. Its virtually impossible to fake your way through the final oral exam in front of a panel of PhD's all grilling you on virtually any random topic they wish. Now thats hard.