how much does a PMNR make

[zafar7]

hi guys

how much does a pain management doctor usually make. i heard they have a good lifelstyle.

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[Fermata]

Check the stickies.

Pain docs can make over 300k.

 

[drusso]

What does the "N" stand for??

 

[caedmon]

I think the N stands for confusion. Hearing the "and" in PM&R pronounced quickly. My friends sometimes ask the same thing.

 

[zafar7]

hey guys

i wanted to ask, if you dont specialize and just do physical medicine and rehab what is the average salaray, do you think its worth it to do a speciality and which speciality pays the best, is it pain management or someone told me spine

also i was curious does your future pay have any relationship to which residency you graduted in PM&R, say for example one went to meyo clinic and some other went to a average or easy PM&R res will his future pay be less than someone who went to meyo, or RIC

 

[paz5559]

OK guys, BOTH PMNR AND meyo? I think someone is pulling our leg here

For a more comprehensive discussion of remuneration, please refer to http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=84961

 

[DistantMets]

hey guys

i wanted to ask, if you dont specialize and just do physical medicine and rehab what is the average salaray, do you think its worth it to do a speciality and which speciality pays the best, is it pain management or someone told me spine

also i was curious does your future pay have any relationship to which residency you graduted in PM&R, say for example one went to meyo clinic and some other went to a average or easy PM&R res will his future pay be less than someone who went to meyo, or RIC

I would suggest you read most of the sticky threads at the top of the forum and see if they answer your questions. I don't know how much you know about the field of PMNR 😉 , but it sounds like you're looking for a fat peycheck. (I've heard lawyers make pretty good money.) I would do pain or spine if you're really interested in pain or spine, and you won't starve on a generalist's salary, I promise.

 

[bustbones26]

OK guys, before you read this, I am goin to get sarcastic, so please ignore it, but I'm just venting-----


Hi guys, my name is so and so. I have no interest in PM&R what so ever, but I did hear that they have a great lifestyle. But do you guys make big bucks? I mean hell, if you have a great lifestyle and don't make big bucks, maybe I should look into radiology as an alternative, I hear they make huge dollars. I mean, I am about as interested in PM&R or rads about as much as sticking a hot poker through my eye, but damn, I just want a cushy lifestyle and big bucks?? And I mean hey, PM&R is less competitive than rads, so maybe I could actually match!

Oh no wait, how about dermatology, yeah, they make great money and have a great lifestyle!!!

SARCASM OVER-----


OK guys, I give pops to each and every person here that went into PM&R because it was what they truly had in their heart to do, not because you had the thought process of the general idiot in my sarcastic response here. Now somebody is going to criticize me and say "I have a wife and 13 kids man!". Hey, I agree, you do need a balanced life, I am not poking fun at people for wanting that. But to each and every person here I pose one question, what did you think medicine was going to be like when you applied to med school? Were you thinking about the prestige, the bragging right of saying "I am a doctor and you're a sloth"?, driving the Hum-V to work, making mega bucks? Did you never think that a profession that is, and always was competive, was NEVER going to be intrusive of your lifestyle or personal life? Even if you do chose a specialty that has a good lifestyle, do you think that it will not have its intrusions into your life at times? Before you got married and had 20 kids, didn't you stop to think, hey, maybe I should plan this right, I am going to be a doctor?

My goal was always to make enough money to pay back my loans. And I figure that even the least competitive specialty can offer me that. So I ask you all, if we all become rads, PM&R, derm, etc. Then who is going to be our surgeons, internist, peds, FP? I smell a shortage coming on.

 

[axm397]

you make some good points.

i generally try to be nice to ppl who are obviously not very knowledgeable - but there's a difference between lazy and being a newbie.

If you're too lazy to do the background research - enough to know it's PM&R not PMNR and what the field is about. Just read a few posts on this forum, etc... then I'm not sure you're really worth my time.

if on the other hand, you really sincerely do not know things about the field and want direction and advice, then that's fine. I didn't know a lot of things when I was starting out.

I don't like those general "OK guys, sell me on PM&R" posts and the pure "lifestyle and money" questions either.

I don't think everyone in medicine is after the lifestyle and money. i think there are still people with genuine interest in helping patients, etc. It sounds like you, bustbones26, are one of those people. I hope you can keep that character.

 

[AviatorDoc]

Bustbones...

I understand the frustration with reading the same posts over and over again. But being critical of folks who want to make good money and have a good lifestyle is, to be as PC as possible, not quite complete in the thought process.

Are people who want these things evil? Is it possible to want these things and still genuinely care for people?

My cardiology rotation last month was one of my favorites. I learned a lot about the physical exam, how to read an EKG, and plenty of other stuff that was previously greek to me. I also learned that a very loving, devoted husband and father would come home around 10:00 each night and leave around 5:30 the next morning. He is a fantastic doctor, and goes the extra mile for his patients, beyond even what most good doctors do. But I see the strain on his family, and on himself.

You don't have to have 15 kids to fit into this story. If medicine is your entire life, that's fine for you. I would like to have a well-rounded life, experiencing it, breathing it, living it. A career in medicine is tough, but so are a lot of careers.

Oh, and we won't have a shortage of docs in other fields, because we will always have people who want to do those as well. They will have to learn to balance life just like everyone else.

There are those who are devoted to their field; those who are devoted to having a cushy life. And then there are those who are good enough, and smart enough, to do both. And doggarnit... people like them! 😉

 

[bustbones26]

Okay people allow me to clarify myself. I am not frustrated by people going into residencies for programs that have a nice lifestyle or have high pay. That is not a problem. What I do think is a shame though are people that go into these specialties ONLY because they are either cushy or make big bucks and have NO interest in the field what so ever, the ONLY thing that attracts them if the lifestyle and money.

Let me ask you all, how would you all feel if you were paralyzed, had a stroke, whatever, and when you go the rehab your PM&R doctor was some cranky pompous a$$ that hated his/her job and could really care less about managing your rehab? They are just there to get the six figures and have an easy time at it.

Lets take this Zafar guy that started the post, are his questions: "Hey guys, what do PM&R docs do?, is it a dying profession or still hot? Should I do a rotation in it, see if I like it?", no his questions are, "Do you get paid big money, if not, then should I subspecialize to make big money, if I go do residency in podunkt, USA vs. Mayo or IVY, will I still make money?" Seems like the kind of guy PM&R PD pick right up, huh? Is he going to go to his residency interview and say, "Yes sir/madaam, I hear you all have a nice cushy lifestyle and I can get paid big bucks if I specialize in pain management."?

Hey I realize that we all need a balance and I do not blame people for running away from specialties that have brutal hours. But really, are these people going to honestly be happy if they "get the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow" so to speak?

Is it fair that some person that honestly and truly wants to be a PM&R doc may not match for residency just because some jerk who is after a cushy life had better grades and board scores and was a more competitive student? Would any of you prospective PM&R wannabee's like it if that happened to you?

 

[AviatorDoc]

Interestingly, Interventional radiology was a strong consideration of mine, but it only took 5 minutes of research to find out how friggin' competitive it is right now, just because of the lifestyle.

I see what you're saying. It's like some guy off the street saying "Hey, I heard you doctors make bank! Maybe I should go to med school."

 

[theD.O.C.]

Well Zafar, I'm not sure what a PMNR is, but I think they make more than a PDQ, but less than a WKYZ. If by chance you were wondering how much a physician who specialises in PM&R (or Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation) makes, there are several posts regarding this up above. 🙂

I understand how frustating med school can be and appreciate the debt. However, I would suggest that you learn about a field first rather than the reimbursement. This will make you much happier with your choice in the long run. After all, you're going to be spending 60+ hours/week, 48 weeks/year, and around 20 years doing it. Even more when you first start out. Life is too short to worry about making more money than you'll have time to spend.

And another thing, interventional spine/pain management is by no means easy street. Talk to a few practicing physicians and find out how they make their 300K a year. I bet you will be suprised.

 

[zafar7]

hey guys,

sorry if i offended anyone, i am not even a doctor, i just wanted a broad overview about PM&R pay scale. I know its a very hard field and one must work vey hard in any field to get compensated well.

Once again i am sorry if I offended anyone.

 

[gj smoove]

Zafar7,
Don't worry about these people. Some people are just too sensitive and idealistic to talk to. If you want to know something about a field and you are interested in medicine, and if you are fortunate enough to get into Med School, eventually you will have buddies years ahead that you can confide with. Those are the type of people that will give you straight answers on what these fields make and how the lifestyle is. Some people are too idealistic and you can't say certain things around them because they will judge you like this guy critisizing you for asking about money. If he was truely a honest man he would not judge you but give you a straight answer like, if you do a pain fellowship, your salary will be around $310000 if you work hard as compared to about $205,000 as a regular PM&R.

hey guys,

sorry if i offended anyone, i am not even a doctor, i just wanted a broad overview about PM&R pay scale. I know its a very hard field and one must work vey hard in any field to get compensated well.

Once again i am sorry if I offended anyone.

 

[axm397]

Zafar7,
Don't worry about these people. Some people are just too sensitive and idealistic to talk to. If you want to know something about a field and you are interested in medicine, and if you are fortunate enough to get into Med School, eventually you will have buddies years ahead that you can confide with. Those are the type of people that will give you straight answers on what these fields make and how the lifestyle is. Some people are too idealistic and you can't say certain things around them because they will judge you like this guy critisizing you for asking about money. If he was truely a honest man he would not judge you but give you a straight answer like, if you do a pain fellowship, your salary will be around $310000 if you work hard as compared to about $205,000 as a regular PM&R.

If you had read the posts carefully, you will notice that many of us who responded to his initial post with a straight answer - refering him to previous threads with the same exact topic. The stickies at the top of the forum also address many of the FAQs.

Many of the SDNers on this forum have a good relationship and know each other's backgrounds fairly well. When you come out of no where and ask a generic question with no qualifiers, it's difficult to assess exactly what the motivation of the person asking the question is. I personally try to give even those posts an honest try at answering their questions, as you will see from the thread you started. I was a bit offended by what you said above.

 

[bustbones26]

Nobody denied zafar info here as far as I can see. But zafar did make it real damn clear that his interest in PM&R ONLY revolved around money and lifestyle.

 

[zafar7]

hey gj smoove,

I agree with you, these guys on this board ar so sensative> i just asked a simple question regarding compensation and lifestyle of a PM&R. And Mr.bustbones26 no one really answered my question except gjsmoove. Nobody here give me any info but instead gave me there 2 cents worth. I think there are many bitter people on this site. I just had the guts to ask a question everyone wanted to ask but no one ask due to people will judge them.

So bustbones you hare no right to judge me, you dont know me. Gj smoove was the only person who was just to the point and answered a simple question, end of story.

Nobody denied zafar info here as far as I can see. But zafar did make it real damn clear that his interest in PM&R ONLY revolved around money and lifestyle.

 

[Finally M3]

I think there are many bitter people on this site. I just had the guts to ask a question everyone wanted to ask but no one ask due to people will judge them.

Lol. Why would we be bitter? Axm and I aren't even PM&R residents yet.

I think some of the people on this board are against people who want to go into PM&R soley because of the lifestyle/compensation ratio. Thus, you may have struck a nerve.

Pain (supposedly) is the most highly compensated, on average, but you can have outpt docs who do a ton of EMGs who get paid pretty well.

Like all of medicine, the amount you make is generally proportional to how hard you want to work.

Good luck!

 

[axm397]

Not to keep repeating the same thing over and over but I believe the initial responses to your question referred you to past threads since you were definitely NOT the first person to ask that question. Please see paz5559 and distantmets response to be specific.

The stickies on top of the forum will also guide you in providing you with basic info about the field, etc.

We are here to help each other and promote a positive atmosphere in discussing the field of PM&R. More importantly, this forum has helped countless people applying to PM&R. (I know it helped me!)

You have really done a dis-service to yourself by making generalizations about ppl on this forum who could have really helped you. I don't even think gj smoove is a PM&R resident judging from his other posts.

I understand the quest for good lifestyle and good money. Most of us would be lying if we said that lifestyle and money were NOT factors that made PM&R attractive. However, I think most of us would also agree that we found other aspects of PM&R to be attractive and interesting. I for one am very much intersted in function and quality of life of patients and felt I could best help my patients by becoming a physiatrist.

Your argument about having the GUTS to ask the question no one has ever dared to ask - really is funny - since we had directed you to stickies and other threads addressing the same exact question you had asked. So you should have known that you were not the first - nope, you're not that special.

You know, I was actually sympathetic towards you until you wrote that response, Zafar... There have been many others before you who asked questions that people misunderstood or react badly to them. What separated the genuine from the insecure was the fact that the sincere people actually explained themselves and clarified. You on the other hand, got defensive.

Oh well, just another day on the SDN forum... we can use some excitement, I guess... 😎

 

[azcomdiddy]

The average is around 230K. Those who specialize in a pain fellowship earn on average of around 280K but you can realistically expect in exccess of 300K as a pain fell. The problem is it's much harder securing a pain fellowship as a physiatrist than as an anesthesiologist. If your goal is to be a pain fellow, I would encourage you to pursue anesthesiology.

 

[theD.O.C.]

Hey axm and co.;

Don't take what zafar and the other guy had to say to heart. We all answered the question multiple times and explicitly. Some people just refuse to listen especially when they hear an answer that they don't agree with or demands a few extra mouse clicks and some reading. That's their problem not ours. The best thing to do is to wish them luck in their quest for most dollars for least work and be done with it.

Oh yeah, zafar and other guy. Here's a solid gold tip: if you want to make scads of U.S. dollars you can become a trial lawyer they can make several million a year. I don't know if there is a trial lawyer message board, but if you search using www.google.com and the term "trial lawyer" and "moolah" I'm sure you intrepid people can find them. Then you can ask them "how much money does trial lawyer make? how is thare lifestyle" Good Luck

 

[scoobydoo]

i just go on this site and i am a second year resident at a average PM&R program, and i wanted to know what people are talking about in this field. And i found this threat initiated by Zafa7r,"how much a PM&R make" a very interesting topic.

Zafar first of all let me tell you NEVER!!! ask anyone a sincere question in this forum. No one is really out there to help you or give you any advice. People will give you all the B.S and excuses but never really answer your question.

I am in this field and in average PM&R make around 200 and if you do something like Pain Management you can get in the high 200's. Lifestyle is great. Zafar7 there is nothing wrong in asking your question, it was a simple question and that is why there are over 1000 people who read this post and wanted to know what you asked. But like I said the Majoity of people on this site (the D.O.C) are too sensatives. I cant imagine how they can become physicans when they let there emotions dictate their thoughts and opinions.

I love this field and i want to help people get better and allow them to live a better life due to my effort in my field. But I feel someone about to spend over 10 years of their life to get into this field, there is nothing wrong in asking what the compensation is. Spending 4 yrs undergrad, than 4 yrs med school, then 3 yrs res, then 1 yr to specialize. its a long road to get to this level. Than having students loans to payback these situations stresses people out and if knowing that you will be well paid in the end gives you more hope to not give up and reach that level. The fact of life, is that money is important on our lives. Its not the most important part of ones life, but if someone who lived a hard life, who had to do everyone on his own, had to have 3 to 4 jobs to pay for med school, have to payback students loans over 100 grand, having to support his family,his relatives, knowing how much money is made if one wants to get into Pm&R is important. Their are many rich snops out there, who's daddy paycheck paid for their med school, who never worked a day in there life and then these people have the NERVE to judge someone for asking a simple question. People get a life!!! dont make things so difficult. There are always someone who has to add his 1 cent opinion and thinks everyone should agree with him. Their are many different types of people out there who are entering this field. Not everyone was feed with a golden spoon.

Dont fool yourselves, no one on this site is going to help anyone. Everyone is out there on their own. When I was in Med school, man!!! most of those white bread dudes!! where so competitive and not friendly at all. They would not even smile or just say hi. IF they knew something important they would keep it to themselves. Now i work with these guys as res, and they are worse, and they are the ones that mainly judges poeple. They should look at their own lives. They would sell their mother to get ahead in his field.

Word of advice for anyone going on this site, dont fool yourself, no one is really going to help you or answer your questions. They will give you a hamburger with the bun, letuce, onions, mustard, but they wont give you the MEAT!!!.

Everyone should really wake up and smell the coffee, do your own research and educate yourself. Dont listen to pestimistic individuals. Everyone situation is different so Zafar dont mind what some of these kids say on this site, they dont know any better. Remember knowledge is power, seek it for yourself, dont rely on ANYONE. Life is to short to be nieve.

I am going to conclude by saying PM&R overall is a good field, dont judge everyone in this field by reading their post on this site. There are good and bad apples everywhere.

Hey axm and co.;

Don't take what zafar and the other guy had to say to heart. We all answered the question multiple times and explicitly. Some people just refuse to listen especially when they hear an answer that they don't agree with or demands a few extra mouse clicks and some reading. That's their problem not ours. The best thing to do is to wish them luck in their quest for most dollars for least work and be done with it.

Oh yeah, zafar and other guy. Here's a solid gold tip: if you want to make scads of U.S. dollars you can become a trial lawyer they can make several million a year. I don't know if there is a trial lawyer message board, but if you search using www.google.com and the term "trial lawyer" and "moolah" I'm sure you intrepid people can find them. Then you can ask them "how much money does trial lawyer make? how is thare lifestyle" Good Luck

 

[Gauss]

OK guys, before you read this, I am goin to get sarcastic, so please ignore it, but I'm just venting-----


Hi guys, my name is so and so. I have no interest in PM&R what so ever, but I did hear that they have a great lifestyle. But do you guys make big bucks? I mean hell, if you have a great lifestyle and don't make big bucks, maybe I should look into radiology as an alternative, I hear they make huge dollars. I mean, I am about as interested in PM&R or rads about as much as sticking a hot poker through my eye, but damn, I just want a cushy lifestyle and big bucks?? And I mean hey, PM&R is less competitive than rads, so maybe I could actually match!

Oh no wait, how about dermatology, yeah, they make great money and have a great lifestyle!!!

SARCASM OVER-----

awesome
thanks for the new sig
a bit truncated though

 

[gj smoove]

Hey scoobydoo,
You read my mind. No body wanted to hear the D.O.C.'s ****** ass comments. If he didn't want to answer the question he should have shut the f..k up!

i just go on this site and i am a second year resident at a average PM&R program, and i wanted to know what people are talking about in this field. And i found this threat initiated by Zafa7r,"how much a PM&R make" a very interesting topic.

Zafar first of all let me tell you NEVER!!! ask anyone a sincere question in this forum. No one is really out there to help you or give you any advice. People will give you all the B.S and excuses but never really answer your question.

I am in this field and in average PM&R make around 200 and if you do something like Pain Management you can get in the high 200's. Lifestyle is great. Zafar7 there is nothing wrong in asking your question, it was a simple question and that is why there are over 1000 people who read this post and wanted to know what you asked. But like I said the Majoity of people on this site (the D.O.C) are too sensatives. I cant imagine how they can become physicans when they let there emotions dictate their thoughts and opinions.

I love this field and i want to help people get better and allow them to live a better life due to my effort in my field. But I feel someone about to spend over 10 years of their life to get into this field, there is nothing wrong in asking what the compensation is. Spending 4 yrs undergrad, than 4 yrs med school, then 3 yrs res, then 1 yr to specialize. its a long road to get to this level. Than having students loans to payback these situations stresses people out and if knowing that you will be well paid in the end gives you more hope to not give up and reach that level. The fact of life, is that money is important on our lives. Its not the most important part of ones life, but if someone who lived a hard life, who had to do everyone on his own, had to have 3 to 4 jobs to pay for med school, have to payback students loans over 100 grand, having to support his family,his relatives, knowing how much money is made if one wants to get into Pm&R is important. Their are many rich snops out there, who's daddy paycheck paid for their med school, who never worked a day in there life and then these people have the NERVE to judge someone for asking a simple question. People get a life!!! dont make things so difficult. There are always someone who has to add his 1 cent opinion and thinks everyone should agree with him. Their are many different types of people out there who are entering this field. Not everyone was feed with a golden spoon.

Dont fool yourselves, no one on this site is going to help anyone. Everyone is out there on their own. When I was in Med school, man!!! most of those white bread dudes!! where so competitive and not friendly at all. They would not even smile or just say hi. IF they knew something important they would keep it to themselves. Now i work with these guys as res, and they are worse, and they are the ones that mainly judges poeple. They should look at their own lives. They would sell their mother to get ahead in his field.

Word of advice for anyone going on this site, dont fool yourself, no one is really going to help you or answer your questions. They will give you a hamburger with the bun, letuce, onions, mustard, but they wont give you the MEAT!!!.

Everyone should really wake up and smell the coffee, do your own research and educate yourself. Dont listen to pestimistic individuals. Everyone situation is different so Zafar dont mind what some of these kids say on this site, they dont know any better. Remember knowledge is power, seek it for yourself, dont rely on ANYONE. Life is to short to be nieve.

I am going to conclude by saying PM&R overall is a good field, dont judge everyone in this field by reading their post on this site. There are good and bad apples everywhere.

 

[Finally M3]

Interesting how two people new to the forum, one of which has been asking for info, starts blasting people who have been here for quite a while.
You're entitled to your own opinions, just as some of us our entitled to our opinions about people who want to enter the field specifically due to the compensation, but...

"Dont fool yourselves, no one on this site is going to help anyone. Everyone is out there on their own. When I was in Med school, man!!! most of those white bread dudes!! where so competitive and not friendly at all. They would not even smile or just say hi. IF they knew something important they would keep it to themselves. Now i work with these guys as res, and they are worse, and they are the ones that mainly judges poeple. They should look at their own lives. They would sell their mother to get ahead in his field."

I think that's going a little bit far, Scooby. Esp. since Axm took the time to write up pretty comprehensive looks at most of her interviews last year and has been the most active poster for newbies interested in PM&R. Don't you think it's a bit presumptuous of yourself, who haven't really contributed to this forum, to be making accusations like that?

And WTF is up with the 'white bread dude' comment? Why don't you start busting out with some more racial slurs?

Tuning out of this thread,

M3

 

[axm397]

Thanks MS3

we'll see how this interview season turns out. When the match activity starts, we'll see the real players come out.

And, I guess I'm more of a golden loaf with bamboo chopsticks than a white bread dude with a silver spoon... I'm sorry scooby is having a rough time at his residency program. I know when I interviewed, I made sure I would match at a program with diverse and friendly residents. Frankly, I have met very few snotty and judgemental residents in PM&R - or physiatrists for that matter. And honestly, in terms of relationships with other ppl, you get what you give out.

Seriously, I never had anything handed to me, I did not sell my mother to get into my residency program, and I have just as much or more debt (>250K) as anyone else. I too have to support other family members and neither my family nor I have assets to speak of... so please don't make any assumptions. Lifestyle and money are legitimate questions to ask - no one got sensitive about that - we're just tired of answering the same questions over and over when there are stickies on the forum for that exact purpose.

tuning out as well 😴