How much does salary matter to you?

[VolibearMain]

Beyond the decision of becoming a doctor because you liked it for XYZ reason, how much does salary matter to you when you aim for/ chose a specialization?

Some specializations are way more difficult than others to obtain a residency in (Derm vs Internal medicine + Specialization) but the easier ones can pay more (IM +cardiology), sometimes.

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[Jabbed]

Here's a quick economic dilemma: say you're getting paid $100/hr to do job X. If I increase your rate to $150/hr, will you now decide to work more hours or fewer hours?

If you elect to work fewer hours, you've indicated that you place a premium on your free time. You'd be a good dermatologist.

If you elect to work more hours, you've indicated that you place minimal value on your free time. You'd be a good cardiologist.

 

[VolibearMain]

Here's a quick economic dilemma: say you're getting paid $100/hr to do job X. If I increase your rate to $150/hr, will you now decide to work more hours or fewer hours?

If you elect to work fewer hours, you've indicated that you place a premium on your free time. You'd be a good dermatologist.

If you elect to work more hours, you've indicated that you place minimal value on your free time. You'd be a good cardiologist.

This is a good analogy I didnt think of before. So the indication here is cards work more hours for lesser pay to make the same amount. Which is true.

 

[KVBane]

I dont think thats what he meant. I think he meant that the cardiologist will even with the raise continue to work the same amount of hours, indicating that salary is important to them. While the dermatologist with the raise will work less hours, meaning that they will make the same amount of money putting an emphasis on free time.

Essentially Cardiologists love to make money, while Dermatologists love to have free time. A raise is necessary to both

 

[Mad Jack]

Moderately. I just need enough capital to make side investments that can grow my income and ultimately make medicine a aside gig, then it won't matter what I do.

 

[Trogghunter]

I think that a more appropriate comparison would be within the same specialty but working at the VA vs academic vs community non profit vs community for profit vs private practice.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Honestly as long as I'm netting 100k a year and I'm coming home before 5:30 on average then I'm satisfied with my life decisions.

 

[psychMDhopefully]

A lot, I have around 300k in loans to pay off.

 

[VolibearMain]

Going from 40k to 75k or so does make a big difference. At 40k you need to budget and bargain hunt. At 75k you probably don't need to watch money that tightly, unless in an expensive city, and can afford luxuries that are valuable to you.

Going from 75k to 125k or so does provide a little happiness, but most of the jobs that pay 125k or more...you'll earn it.

Going from 125k to 250k did absolutely nothing for my personal happiness.

Really depends on where you live and your life style.
If you live in a relative cheap area, after taxes you probably keep like 70 K/125 and about 130k of the 250. that almost double cash can go away in saving

Going from 40k to 75k or so does make a big difference. At 40k you need to budget and bargain hunt. At 75k you probably don't need to watch money that tightly, unless in an expensive city, and can afford luxuries that are valuable to you.

Going from 75k to 125k or so does provide a little happiness, but most of the jobs that pay 125k or more...you'll earn it.

Going from 125k to 250k did absolutely nothing for my personal happiness.

This depends on location like you said and your personality.
125 k after taxes is probably something like 70 k
250 k after taxes is probably around 130 k.

I would probably be happy after 300 k because at that income I could live decently in a more expensive area. Actually I couldnt where my home town is, (silicon valley), but other places I could have a decent house, good car, maid to take care of the crap at home.
My girlfriend on the other hand is happy with what ever gets her free time and a one bedroom apartment where she can watch tv and bake.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I'm in the military, so not very.

 

[ERDOC555]

Beyond the decision of becoming a doctor because you liked it for XYZ reason, how much does salary matter to you when you aim for/ chose a specialization?

Some specializations are way more difficult than others to obtain a residency in (Derm vs Internal medicine + Specialization) but the easier ones can pay more (IM +cardiology), sometimes.

This number is different for everyone. I believe there are studies that show money isn't associated with happiness past ~75k per year. I know some people that don't care about money if they make more thn 150 or 200. I know others who really want 500. Personally 300k is my breakeven point. Below that I'm not too pleased, above that and it's just extra money. Every person will have a different threshold. But an extra 100k when we're in a high range like 300-700k really doesn't matter much for quality of life and satisfaction.

EDIT: to clarify my 75k comment, the argument there is that 75k allows you to cover all basic expenses, own a home/car, take vacations, and eat out, number may be higher or lower depending on cost of living and personal preferences. Obviously more money is better, but the happiness correlation refers to all the other factors that make you content with your life. Even people with Trump money may not be happy because of whatever their own personal issues are and no amount of extra salary will reverse that.


Hard to be happy when you're struggling to make ends meet, however past a certain point, more money won't take away the other stressers/personal issues in your life.

 

[Donald Juan]

This number is different for everyone. I believe there are studies that show money isn't associated with happiness past ~75k per year. I know some people that don't care about money if they make more thn 150 or 200. I know others who really want 500. Personally 300k is my breakeven point. Below that I'm not too pleased, above that and it's just extra money. Every person will have a different threshold. But an extra 100k when we're in a high range like 300-700k really doesn't matter much for quality of life and satisfaction.

I think everybody wants more money...it seems like most people saying, "I only want 100k/yr" are usually the ones currently making 40k/yr that are speculating at how much extra money they'll have when they make 100k, 150k, or 200k, or whatever number. Then once you get that amount you think you deserve/need more.

 

[VolibearMain]

This number is different for everyone. I believe there are studies that show money isn't associated with happiness past ~75k per year. I know some people that don't care about money if they make more thn 150 or 200. I know others who really want 500. Personally 300k is my breakeven point. Below that I'm not too pleased, above that and it's just extra money. Every person will have a different threshold. But an extra 100k when we're in a high range like 300-700k really doesn't matter much for quality of life and satisfaction.

Imma be honest that 75 k - no extra happiness estimate is probably by some idiot. 75 k is pretty low, you just barely save a little after paying your bills. Agreed with 300 k and also Donald Juan, the richer you get the more money you want. Tell me that giving a person with a 75 k salary, Trumps salary (and property), isnt happier, it would be a lie.

 

[VolibearMain]

The Bay Area is great culturally, and not short of insane economically

I love the bay area. There is so much to do, all climates close by, so many activities for what ever youre into. I hope I can end up back there. Keep in mind its not a doctors economy though. Its the engineers pulling in 1-2 million each/ year with their stock bonuses.

 

[surfguy84]

Really depends on where you live and your life style.
If you live in a relative cheap area, after taxes you probably keep like 70 K/125 and about 130k of the 250. that almost double cash can go away in saving


This depends on location like you said and your personality.
125 k after taxes is probably something like 70 k
250 k after taxes is probably around 130 k.

I would probably be happy after 300 k because at that income I could live decently in a more expensive area. Actually I couldnt where my home town is, (silicon valley), but other places I could have a decent house, good car, maid to take care of the crap at home.
My girlfriend on the other hand is happy with what ever gets her free time and a one bedroom apartment where she can watch tv and bake.

Use paycheckcity to calculate exactly what taxes would be. Those numbers are very far off reality. 250k (assuming single and living in high tax california) would be 150k a year. This also assumes no tax write offs....fo get yourself a decent accountant and your number is likely higher.

 

[surfguy84]

Going from 40k to 75k or so does make a big difference. At 40k you need to budget and bargain hunt. At 75k you probably don't need to watch money that tightly, unless in an expensive city, and can afford luxuries that are valuable to you.

Going from 75k to 125k or so does provide a little happiness, but most of the jobs that pay 125k or more...you'll earn it.

Going from 125k to 250k did absolutely nothing for my personal happiness.

Going from 125k to 250k means you can continue living on 125, save the rest, and retire significantly earlier. i dont know how that security couldn't bring extra happpiness.

 

[iqe2010]

It's important to me, but what's also important to me is being happy with the decisions I make in life. Having a romantic life, having a better social life, etc.

I'm not even in medical school yet, but what I keep hearing is that you have to make time for yourself. You can't say "once I'm at so-and-so stage I'll be happy." Medical education is a long road, even longer for non-trads like myself. You have to find a happy medium, even during busy, high stress times like 3rd/4th year and residency.

I have a "target" of 200k. Anything more than that is gravy, but I feel that's a good salary that's attainable even in the lower paying fields.

 

[VolibearMain]

You apparently have not worked the professional positions that merit this kind of pay. No one is going to pay a low-stress position 125k, and most 250k jobs are absolute pressure cookers.

By contrast, there are many jobs that pay 75-90 that have little stress.

Ill have to stop you right there. Most of my highschool teachers who majored in history or english made between 100-150 k. My history teacher who coached a **** football team made 150. The traffic cop who isnt even allowed to give people any tickets beyond parking tickets makes 95 k in my neighborhood.

 

[VolibearMain]

It's not a functional long run economy. The boom in IT will not last forever, and when it stops, SF is more concentrated in IT than Detroit was in auto.

When that slows, you have the vibrancy of Detroit combined with a housing and infrastructure stock that hasn't changed since the 1930s.

It does have weather and culture, but the later depends to a substantial extent on IT money

Austin, Boston, and parts of Chicago are just as culturally vibrant, and none have the IT concentration that, while valuable now, is unlikely to radically outperform every other industry forever and ever

Matter of opinion in this case though your opinion is wrong.

 

[surfguy84]

You apparently have not worked the professional positions that merit this kind of pay. No one is going to pay a low-stress position 125k, and most 250k jobs are absolute pressure cookers.

By contrast, there are many jobs that pay 75-90 that have little stress.

I ran a tech biz for several years before med school. I'm well aware the high-pressure that comes in real world jobs, salary notwithstanding.

 

[hurtem&healem]

Imma be honest that 75 k - no extra happiness estimate is probably by some idiot. 75 k is pretty low, you just barely save a little after paying your bills. Agreed with 300 k and also Donald Juan, the richer you get the more money you want. Tell me that giving a person with a 75 k salary, Trumps salary (and property), isnt happier, it would be a lie.

Does Donald Trump strike you as a happy person?

 

[Rekt]

Honestly as long as I'm netting 100k a year and I'm coming home before 5:30 on average then I'm satisfied with my life decisions.

To be honest, this type of thinking regarding salary is 100% malignant to the field of medicine and only hurts everyone. Is money my primary goal? No, but I will have >250k in loans and children that need to go to decent schools.

 

[VolibearMain]

I ran a tech biz for several years before med school. I'm well aware the high-pressure that comes in real world jobs, salary notwithstanding.

Real world jobs can have more stress than med school/medicine . Especially in tech lol. Idk why this person thinks its an easy career.

 

[VolibearMain]

Does Donald Trump strike you as a happy person?

He is or isnt because of his personality but I promise you many other rich stars are probably very happy. Certainly more happy than the grumpy person who has to work 1-2 jobs to make 75 k and worry about penny pinching for retirement. If you give that 75 k salary a raise to some x millions a year, they will be much happier.

 

[W19]

Well, I won't settle for anything < 300k/year or a take home < 7k biweekly

 

[mcloaf]

Going from 125k to 250k did absolutely nothing for my personal happiness.

Maybe not in the short term, but invested wisely that's a hell of a lot more flexibility regarding retirement and future career choices.

 

[VolibearMain]

Maybe not in the short term, but invested wisely that's a hell of a lot more flexibility regarding retirement and future career choices.

And even if they did not invest, Youre still able to save about 60 k a year * 30 years of working. That's a lot of money for retirement

 

[IslandStyle808]

To be honest, this type of thinking regarding salary is 100% malignant to the field of medicine and only hurts everyone. Is money my primary goal? No, but I will have >250k in loans and children that need to go to decent schools.

Its only malignant to you. He can live his life how ever he chooses, and if he gets paid 200k after working only 45 hours a week (netting around 120k), more power to him. Medicine gives him that choice. He not saying doctor should be paid less, he's saying that is the salary that satisfies him. I've seen of one too many medical students and residents go interpreting these posts the wrong way.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

To be honest, this type of thinking regarding salary is 100% malignant to the field of medicine and only hurts everyone. Is money my primary goal? No, but I will have >250k in loans and children that need to go to decent schools.

I'm not sure how it's malignant. I literally described the lower end salary of the field I want to go into with ~33% tax taken away.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Its only malignant to you. He can live his life how ever he chooses, and if he gets paid 200k after working only 45 hours a week (netting around 120k), more power to him. Medicine gives him that choice. He not saying doctor should be paid less, he's saying that is the salary that satisfies him. I've seen of one too many medical students and residents go interpreting these posts the wrong way.

Right, that's essentially where I'm going with it. I'd rather work till 70 w/40 hour weeks than retire at 55 having worked 70 hour weeks.

 

[VolibearMain]

Right, that's essentially where I'm going with it. I'd rather work till 70 w/40 hour weeks than retire at 55 having worked 70 hour weeks.

You could technically be a neurosurgeon and work 80 hour weeks for roughly 10 years and then just retire.

also keep in mind you don't need to be a doctor for life. You could do other less intensive stuff. My father made roughly 1.2-1.8 million a year in his 50's. He is planning on retiring at 60 and joining a tech -high school or teaching one or two random courses at local colleges

 

[failedatlife]

Wow, you guys are high maintenance.

I'm a simple man. I'd be happy netting over 400k, driving home to my waterfront home in my m5, and coming home to a my wife who looks like this:

http://www.speakerscorner.me/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Gabriella_Wilde_14.jpg

But I'm a simple man with simple aspirations.

 

[VolibearMain]

Wow, you guys are high maintenance.

I'm a simple man. I'd be happy netting over 400k, driving home by waterfront home in my m5, and coming home to a my wife who looks like this:

http://www.speakerscorner.me/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Gabriella_Wilde_14.jpg

But I'm a simple man with simple aspirations.

Away with this mediocre peasant.

 

[Merely]

Going from 40k to 75k or so does make a big difference. At 40k you need to budget and bargain hunt. At 75k you probably don't need to watch money that tightly, unless in an expensive city, and can afford luxuries that are valuable to you.

Going from 75k to 125k or so does provide a little happiness, but most of the jobs that pay 125k or more...you'll earn it.

Going from 125k to 250k did absolutely nothing for my personal happiness.

This is so interesting to me, 125 to 250 did nothing for you? Maybe money isn't a source of happinessthat many think it is...

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Ill have to stop you right there. Most of my highschool teachers who majored in history or english made between 100-150 k. My history teacher who coached a **** football team made 150. The traffic cop who isnt even allowed to give people any tickets beyond parking tickets makes 95 k in my neighborhood.

What state do you live in? I'll tell my hs teacher friends making $40k to go there.

 

[VolibearMain]

What state do you live in? I'll tell my hs teacher friends making $40k to go there.

2013–2016 salaries for Fremont Union High | Transparent California

 

[NotYou20]

Ill have to stop you right there. Most of my highschool teachers who majored in history or english made between 100-150 k. My history teacher who coached a **** football team made 150. The traffic cop who isnt even allowed to give people any tickets beyond parking tickets makes 95 k in my neighborhood.

Med students overwhelmingly coming from rich places like this is part of why there's so much financial dissatisfaction.

I'll be thrilled with 250k/yr, but ideally I'll work more for the first couple years to get that 400k monkey off my back. I have no idea why a 700k house vs a 400k one would matter honestly. Repeat for most things, save funding a hobby or two.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

2013–2016 salaries for Fremont Union High | Transparent California

Holy **** balls. The teachers here are getting the shaft.

 

[Med student 18]

it becomes more of a function of having more free time which is important to me. so, having a better salary is important to me.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Holy **** balls. The teachers here are getting the shaft.

Those salary exceed the words of being shafted. Even my university professors aren't being payed that well....

 

[W19]

Med students overwhelmingly coming from rich places like this is part of why there's so much financial dissatisfaction.

I'll be thrilled with 250k/yr, but ideally I'll work more for the first couple years to get that 400k monkey off my back. I have no idea why a 700k house vs a 400k one would matter honestly. Repeat for most things, save funding a hobby or two.

a 700k home in San Francisco is just a hovel...

 

[vm26]

Med students overwhelmingly coming from rich places like this is part of why there's so much financial dissatisfaction.

I'll be thrilled with 250k/yr, but ideally I'll work more for the first couple years to get that 400k monkey off my back. I have no idea why a 700k house vs a 400k one would matter honestly. Repeat for most things, save funding a hobby or two.

700K house versus 400K could mean better location (better school district, lower crime rates, better re-sale value etc), new versus older construction (repairs/renovation), size of house and lot, could also mean shorter commute

 

[rafa 22]

not enough to stop me from doing what I want to do (fam medicine) although it is one of the lower paying ones....

 

[VolibearMain]

700K house versus 400K could mean better location (better school district, lower crime rates, better re-sale value etc), new versus older construction (repairs/renovation), size of house and lot, could also mean shorter commute

My home back in california is a 1.2 million dollar luxury town home? What does that mean you say? its a 3 bedroom standard townhome with no backyard in a town infested with hobos.

 

[vm26]

Those salary exceed the words of being shafted. Even my university professors aren't being payed that well....

I live in northern CA (Sac area). Newer teachers aren't doing as well (start around 40K).

 

[VolibearMain]

I live in northern CA (Sac area). Newer teachers aren't doing as well (start around 40K).

Sac, although its improving, is kind of like what happened to Detroit Michigan, of California.
Im from south bay so taxes are higher, property taxes, etc, and teachers get paid more. Sac living is significantly cheaper too so its okay for teachers to make less. Anyway that was my 2 cents realtor for today.
Personally I prefer a smaller house in a good neighborhood with less commute.

 

[iqe2010]

Is 300k in debt becoming the standard for a medical school graduate? Because holy f*ck that's insane.

I'm anticipating being less than 100k in debt upon graduation.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I live in northern CA (Sac area). Newer teachers aren't doing as well (start around 40K).

That's surprising since Cali teachers are the better paid teachers in the US.

 

[NotYou20]

700K house versus 400K could mean better location (better school district, lower crime rates, better re-sale value etc), new versus older construction (repairs/renovation), size of house and lot, could also mean shorter commute

a 700k home in San Francisco is just a hovel...

I should clarify a bit. I'm from the midwest where I can get a perfectly nice house in a good suburb (puke) or in a good area of a big city. Something like low crime vs super low crime is a non issue for me. Similarly, I don't really want kids at this point so school district is a yawn. I didn't go to great school district and I really wouldn't want my kids, if I have them, being surrounded by the kids I knew from those places. I don't want a big house, my dad's place would be considered somewhat small by most but it's a good size for me.

I'm not saying there's no advantage for most people, I'm saying that those things don't really matter to me at this point. That could obviously change to.

 

[vm26]

I should clarify a bit. I'm from the midwest where I can get a perfectly nice house in a good suburb (puke) or in a good area of a big city. Something like low crime vs super low crime is a non issue for me. Similarly, I don't really want kids at this point so school district is a yawn. I didn't go to great school district and I really wouldn't want my kids, if I have them, being surrounded by the kids I knew from those places. I don't want a big house, my dad's place would be considered somewhat small by most but it's a good size for me.

I'm not saying there's no advantage for most people, I'm saying that those things don't really matter to me at this point. That could obviously change to.

Not having kids and/or an expensive divorce is a sound financial decision!