How Much Does Your Pre-Med School REALLY Matter?

[Cardiothoracic]

We've all heard it before; the school where you get your bachelors degree doesn't matter. What matters is getting good grades and a high MCAT score. Now, how true is that really? My first choice for an undergraduate school was U.C. Davis. Its ranked #38 on the US News Best Colleges list. However, I've became interested in Pepperdine University. Its ranked #54; significantly lower. It's campus is definitively, without a doubt better. The weather, location, and views are all decent reasons for wanting to go there. It seems like they have a much better social life as well. I know that education should come first, but can't we enjoy our times during undergraduate education as well? I mean, during med school you don't really have much free time. Undergraduate education is the last time you really have fun in that type of way. Afterwards its all incredibly hard work and than comes major responsibility. Anyways, what I'm asking is if medical school would favor a U.C. Davis student over a Pepperdine University student. Thanks for taking the time to view my thread.

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[gettheleadout]

Appropriate answer: search function. It's up in the corner there. Just click it. You know you want to.

Real answer: UCD vs Dr. Pepperdine could not matter one iota less.

 

[Aerus]

The difference betwen Pepperdine and UC Davis in terms of ranking is neglible.

Go to Pepperdine if you're happier there.

The thing is that undergraduate institution DOES matter to some extent, but the amount it matters is so insignificant compared to the rest of your application that most people just dismiss it. 0.1 is something, but is nothing compared to 1000 right?

 

[Cardiothoracic]

Thanks for the replies. If you personally had to make the choice, what would it be?

 

[The Beyonder]

Thanks for the replies. If you personally had to make the choice, what would it be?

The cheapest!!!

 

[TriagePreMed]

Nobody will care whichever you go to as long as you do well. Go to where it's cheapest. You will be in massive debt through medical school. It's better to lessen the financial burden.

 

[SilverCat]

From what I found, UCD tuition is about 13,000, while Pepperdine is around 40,000 ( correct me if I'm wrong).. I would choose UCD for this reason- minimize college debt, because med school's going to involve heavy debt. Even if your parents are paying for college, choose the cheaper school- that money could go towards med school.

 

[dahassa]

We've all heard it before; the school where you get your bachelors degree doesn't matter. What matters is getting good grades and a high MCAT score. Now, how true is that really? My first choice for an undergraduate school was U.C. Davis. Its ranked #38 on the US News Best Colleges list. However, I've became interested in Pepperdine University. Its ranked #54; significantly lower. It's campus is definitively, without a doubt better. The weather, location, and views are all decent reasons for wanting to go there. It seems like they have a much better social life as well. I know that education should come first, but can't we enjoy our times during undergraduate education as well? I mean, during med school you don't really have much free time. Undergraduate education is the last time you really have fun in that type of way. Afterwards its all incredibly hard work and than comes major responsibility. Anyways, what I'm asking is if medical school would favor a U.C. Davis student over a Pepperdine University student. Thanks for taking the time to view my thread.

Undergrad institution plays a small role during the admissions process. The exact amount differs from school to school. If the difference was Yale vs Podunk then I would say it would make an appreciable difference, but Davis and Pepperdine are both fine schools. I highly doubt they would be treated differently during the admissions process. I would try and minimize debt, while picking a schools that is a good fit. Go with your gut and pick the place that will make you happy for 4 years.

 

[cerno]

Thanks for the replies. If you personally had to make the choice, what would it be?

Two main factors - whichever you would be happier at, and whichever one makes more financial sense.

 

[sinombre]

Are you footing the bill? Malibu is an awesome area (I grew up around there), but the difference in cost is probably pretty damn significant. And that's something you should really pay attention to. Keep in mind most people who start undergrad with the intention of going to medical school won't end up going for one reason or another.

If moving away from where you grew up is important to you, you should re-consider transferring to UCSB or UCSD. They'll save you $50,000ish, you'll be hundreds of miles away from home, and you'll be living in coastal southern California.

Edit: after thinking about it, don't go to Pepperdine unless your parents are paying and have no qualms with spending an extra 50k, or unless Pepperdine gives you a significant scholarship to mitigate the extreme difference in cost.

 

[arish]

2 things to keep in mind
-The medical schools have their own way of calculating your GPA based on your school ranking.
- which ever school you end up going, make sure that the curriculum and advisers for pre-med are solid. Look at the school percentage for getting in to medical school each year and judge from there.
The school really matters.... I say it from having a bad experience

Good luck

 

[DoktorO]

Undergrad makes little to no difference for med school applications. However UC Davis would have more places to volunteer at for clinical experience than Pepperdine. Also UC Davis is significantly less expensive and you can put that extra money aside for med school if you have savings or you could just get less debt

 

[Barney Stinson]

2 things to keep in mind
-The medical schools have their own way of calculating your GPA based on your school ranking.
- which ever school you end up going, make sure that the curriculum and advisers for pre-med are solid. Look at the school percentage for getting in to medical school each year and judge from there.
The school really matters.... I say it from having a bad experience

Good luck

I've never heard of medical schools "calculating" GPA differently based on undergrad; that sounds more like the law school admissions process. Advising is also helpful, but be mindful of the fact that some schools monkey with the data re: accepted students by only allowing some to get committee letters or by otherwise endorsing only a subset of their premed students to artificially inflate that number.

 

[Dreamstoo]

We've all heard it before; the school where you get your bachelors degree doesn't matter. What matters is getting good grades and a high MCAT score. Now, how true is that really? My first choice for an undergraduate school was U.C. Davis. Its ranked #38 on the US News Best Colleges list. However, I've became interested in Pepperdine University. Its ranked #54; significantly lower. It's campus is definitively, without a doubt better. The weather, location, and views are all decent reasons for wanting to go there. It seems like they have a much better social life as well. I know that education should come first, but can't we enjoy our times during undergraduate education as well? I mean, during med school you don't really have much free time. Undergraduate education is the last time you really have fun in that type of way. Afterwards its all incredibly hard work and than comes major responsibility. Anyways, what I'm asking is if medical school would favor a U.C. Davis student over a Pepperdine University student. Thanks for taking the time to view my thread.

It doesn't really matter where you go. My brother knows of someone who went to a very easy school got a 4.0 (had very low grades in high school granted the accepted student had a 170+ LSAT) and ended up in Harvard Law School. However, a prestigious undergrad (top 20) can definitely help an application to an extent. I have known of Columbia/Princeton grads who got into state medical schools with 3.3/3.4 gpas and a 30 MCAT. To be perfectly honest, I wish I worked harder in high school and went to a more prestigious university (an ivy league school), princeton I believe has a 90% acceptance rate for its pre med students applying to medical school. My school I believe has in the low 60s%.

 

[gmcguitar4]

Pepperdine is also a religious university. It is a completely dry campus and members of opposite sex aren't allowed in dorms after a certain time. Also, the campus closes down almost completely after a certain time. Even if it was a lot cheaper, these would dissuade me.

 

[milkphlegm]

Pepperdine is a private school and Davis is not, therefore Pepperdine will be way more expensive.

As everyone else said, the difference in ranking is negligible here. I imagine ranking would only matter if you're going to like Ivy League top 5 type of schools.

 

[NontradCA]

I'd go to Davis just to avoid being around the students of Pepperdine who use summer as a verb.

 

[pandahunter]

I'd go to Davis just to avoid being around the students of Pepperdine who use summer as a verb.

this.

 

[mcloaf]

I like how you knew the answer to the question and put it in the first sentence of your post, but then decided to make a new thread anyway. These threads have been out of control lately. Search.

 

[ChiDO]

Cheaper school. Nothing else matters. Not once when I helped with the admissions at med school did someone say "Oh, this person went to XXX, that explains the 3.2 GPA!"

 

[gettheleadout]

2 things to keep in mind
-The medical schools have their own way of calculating your GPA based on your school ranking.
- which ever school you end up going, make sure that the curriculum and advisers for pre-med are solid. Look at the school percentage for getting in to medical school each year and judge from there.
The school really matters.... I say it from having a bad experience

Good luck

Speculation.

 

[Sophocles]

I think another point to consider is the difference between the resources and opportunities that each have.

Research, volunteering, EC's, etc.

I think a lot of it is what you make of it, but it never hurts to have a great deal of precedence in some areas. For instance, my undergrad. had programs with the local hospitals for shadowing and research (both clinical and bench) which made it extremely easy to do something substantial in these fields. Not to say that you couldn't find your own way at other schools without these established programs but it would definitely not be as easy.

Although, you could also say that in these smaller schools there is more room for you to be innovative and try to establish these connections by creating EC clubs or what have you.

Bottom line, it's all relative to what you want and how you want to accomplish it, IMO.

 

[Narmerguy]

I like how you knew the answer to the question and put it in the first sentence of your post, but then decided to make a new thread anyway. These threads have been out of control lately. Search.

👍 See signature.

 

[yehhhboiii]

I like how you knew the answer to the question and put it in the first sentence of your post, but then decided to make a new thread anyway. These threads have been out of control lately. Search.

it's what happens in the summer. people are on break and the accepted premeds make a ton of ridiculous threads about prestudying while the applying premeds ask a ton of dumb questions about school rankings, urms and md vs do

 

[sinombre]

2 things to keep in mind
-The medical schools have their own way of calculating your GPA based on your school ranking.
- which ever school you end up going, make sure that the curriculum and advisers for pre-med are solid. Look at the school percentage for getting in to medical school each year and judge from there.
The school really matters.... I say it from having a bad experience

Good luck

No, this is completely wrong. The curriculum and advisers have absolutely no bearing on admissions outcomes. The number of students from an institution that are accepted to medical school each year is irrelevant (unless the numbers are extremely skewed relative to other schools, but this data isn't really available anyway). Being successful is a function of individual effort and has little to do with the undergraduate institution. You're making a huge generalization based off of a single (i.e. anecdotal) experience.

 

[subtlepenguin]

No, this is completely wrong. The curriculum and advisers have absolutely no bearing on admissions outcomes. The number of students from an institution that are accepted to medical school each year is irrelevant (unless the numbers are extremely skewed relative to other schools, but this data isn't really available anyway). Being successful is a function of individual effort and has little to do with the undergraduate institution. You're making a huge generalization based off of a single (i.e. anecdotal) experience.

I think you're making a fallacy here. While I agree with you that being successful is a function of individual effort, I would argue that a person's relative level of success compared to the rest of the applicant pooled is influenced by his/her institution.

Think about this analogy for a second, we know that a person's piano skills is completely independent of the kind of piano they play on. It doesn't matter if he's playing on a world class piano or the one at grandma's, his skill and technique are still the same. However, it's obvious that the sound quality produced would have a notifiable difference.

 

[Daodejing]

does it matter if you want to apply to top-tier schools? yes
does it matter if you just want to get accepted to a medical school? no

 

[gettheleadout]

I think you're making a fallacy here. While I agree with you that being successful is a function of individual effort, I would argue that a person's relative level of success compared to the rest of the applicant pooled is influenced by his/her institution.

Think about this analogy for a second, we know that a person's piano skills is completely independent of the kind of piano they play on. It doesn't matter if he's playing on a world class piano or the one at grandma's, his skill and technique are still the same. However, it's obvious that the sound quality produced would have a notifiable difference.

sinombre's point is that premed "programs" or advisors are essentially useless when one can fully inform oneself about everything using SDN, and almost every school in the country will offer the same types of courses necessary to succeed to the fullest extent.

Choosing a school based on their "premed" program is ridiculous. I would actually say the opposite, one should look for a school that doesn't offer premed committee letters simply so that whole ordeal can be avoided. It certainly doesn't put one at any advantage as an applicant.

 

[subtlepenguin]

sinombre's point is that premed "programs" or advisors are essentially useless when one can fully inform oneself about everything using SDN, and almost every school in the country will offer the same types of courses necessary to succeed to the fullest extent.

Choosing a school based on their "premed" program is ridiculous. I would actually say the opposite, one should look for a school that does offer premed committee letters simply so that whole ordeal can be avoided. It certainly doesn't put one at any advantage as an applicant.

"Being successful is a function of individual effort and has little to do with the undergraduate institution". I think he's saying a little bit more.

 

[gettheleadout]

does it matter if you want to apply to top-tier schools? yes
does it matter if you just want to get accepted to a medical school? no

Enough to be a factor in choosing a school? My school isn't even Top 100 in the US News University Rankings, and we send people to Top 10 med schools every year.

"Being successful is a function of individual effort and has little to do with the undergraduate institution". I think he's saying a little bit more.

I agree with him. Someone who wants to inform themselves about the application process, the MCAT, or anything else will do so.

 

[survivordo]

I truly believe the biggest factor that should play into your decision on where to attend undergraduate should be cost of attendance. As you have seen on this forum you can successfully matriculate to med school from just about anywhere. Safe the money now, if you are motivated you will be happy and perform well anywhere.

Survivor DO

 

[Daodejing]

Enough to be a factor in choosing a school? My school isn't even Top 100 in the US News University Rankings, and we send people to Top 10 med schools every year.

No, I didn't say that it is or should be a factor in choosing a school. That's a completely personal decision and whatever factors that the OP values should determine that decision.

Good for you and your school, but it does not play an insignificant role. Well then, how significant of a role? Who knows? Only adcoms know how much weight they place on it for their particular school. There's no survey of med school adcoms like there is for residency PD's. I wish.

 

[circulus vitios]

Ivy/MIT/Stanford will make a difference. If you go to any other private or public school then it's highly unlikely that anyone will ever care.

 

[Daodejing]

Ivy/MIT/Stanford will make a difference. If you go to any other private or public school then it's highly unlikely that anyone will ever care.

Oh boy, here come the droves of students/alumni from all the other schools to give you hell

 

[gettheleadout]

No, I didn't say that it is or should be a factor in choosing a school. That's a completely personal decision and whatever factors that the OP values should determine that decision.

Note that I didn't say you did, I was merely asking.

Good for you and your school, but it does not play an insignificant role. Well then, how significant of a role? Who knows? Only adcoms know how much weight they place on it for their particular school. There's no survey of med school adcoms like there is for residency PD's. I wish.

I agree it plays a role, but I think its partly speculation on your part to say it only matters (to whatever extent) for admission to top schools.

Ivy/MIT/Stanford will make a difference. If you go to any other private or public school then it's highly unlikely that anyone will ever care.

More speculation! Let's see how many conclusions we can draw without evidence!

 

[Josh7]

Check out the MSAR...

Everyone who goes to medical school attended an Ivy League for undergrad. Preferably a top Ivy League none of this Cornell business.

 

[Dbate]

Check out the MSAR...

Everyone who goes to medical school attended an Ivy League for undergrad. Preferably a top Ivy League none of this Cornell business.

Best part of this thread 👍

 

[gettheleadout]

Best part of this thread 👍

Says the Yalie.

 

[subtlepenguin]

Enough to be a factor in choosing a school? My school isn't even Top 100 in the US News University Rankings, and we send people to Top 10 med schools every year.


I agree with him. Someone who wants to inform themselves about the application process, the MCAT, or anything else will do so.

But how many/what percentage of the applicant class do you guys send? HMS always has an incoming class from 50+ undergraduate institutions, that doesn't mean all of them are give you an equal opportunity to go to HMS.

"I agree with him. Someone who wants to inform themselves about the application process, the MCAT, or anything else will do so." Did you not read my previous post? I think we're talking about different subjects, I agree that the difference in advisers may not have a significant impact but the name of the institution certainly does.

 

[Dbate]

Says the Yalie.

Why'd you mention that! Now I seem like a douchebag.

 

[Josh7]

Why'd you mention that! Now I seem like a douchebag.

😉

 

[dahassa]

Enough to be a factor in choosing a school? My school isn't even Top 100 in the US News University Rankings, and we send people to Top 10 med schools every year.

of course people who don't go to top undergrads can get into top medical schools. But undergrad reputation makes a difference. Before I went through the application process, I thought it would be insignificant. But I have had interviews where 10/12 prospectives went to top 10-15 schools. Is this b/c of the schools reputation or is it b/c these students tend to already be extremely competitive? I don't know, but it is clear the top schools are over represented at top tier medical schools.

 

[Dbate]

Why'd you mention that! Now I seem like a douchebag.

😉

It's okay. Everyone who knows me in real life would describe me as a douchebag anyway, lol

 

[Dbate]

of course people who don't go to top undergrads can get into top medical schools. But undergrad reputation makes a difference. Before I went through the application process, I thought it would be insignificant. But I have had interviews where 10/12 prospectives went to top 10-15 schools. Is this b/c of the schools reputation or is it b/c these students tend to already be extremely competitive? I don't know, but it is clear the top schools are over represented at top tier medical schools.

I really think it is because smart people tend to go to top schools. The average pre med at Yale scores a 34 on the mcat. I was shocked when I found that out. And it made me feel alot more average about my own performance.

So of course, the students from these schools are going to be present at the top med schools.

 

[487806]

Check out the MSAR...

Everyone who goes to medical school attended an Ivy League for undergrad. Preferably a top Ivy League none of this Cornell business.

Exactly. Although I'll throw Princeton into the mix as well.

 

[gettheleadout]

But how many/what percentage of the applicant class do you guys send? HMS always has an incoming class from 50+ undergraduate institutions, that doesn't mean all of them are give you an equal opportunity to go to HMS.

"I agree with him. Someone who wants to inform themselves about the application process, the MCAT, or anything else will do so." Did you not read my previous post? I think we're talking about different subjects, I agree that the difference in advisers may not have a significant impact but the name of the institution certainly does.

Honesty, we send a very small percentage of the successful applicant class to top schools, but that's because my school A) generally has crappy applicants (sub-30 MCAT's and lots of cookie-cutter EC's) and B) is a feeder school for our state school, so a lot of applicants don't apply out of state, or don't do so seriously. The applicants that go on to top schools are our top applicants, and I think that makes perfect sense in our case.

And sorry, I misread your post and took it to refer to success within undergrad based on the school. That said, I still disagree that school name has some huge effect. I see literally zero reason to think it would limit an applicant, and though it may appear to give applicants a substantial boost...

of course people who don't go to top undergrads can get into top medical schools. But undergrad reputation makes a difference. Before I went through the application process, I thought it would be insignificant. But I have had interviews where 10/12 prospectives went to top 10-15 schools. Is this b/c of the schools reputation or is it b/c these students tend to already be extremely competitive? I don't know, but it is clear the top schools are over represented at top tier medical schools.

...you can't really be sure. I just think it's funny how people argue that it definitely plays a role to X extent in Y case(s), when really you can't separate out factors like these and you can't make statements about them without anything to back them up.

I've given my real thoughts on the matter many times before though, so I'm not going to waste any more time typing.

 

[Josh7]

of course people who don't go to top undergrads can get into top medical schools. But undergrad reputation makes a difference. Before I went through the application process, I thought it would be insignificant. But I have had interviews where 10/12 prospectives went to top 10-15 schools. Is this b/c of the schools reputation or is it b/c these students tend to already be extremely competitive? I don't know, but it is clear the top schools are over represented at top tier medical schools.

Harvard+URM+Female+99th percentile MCAT+Decent GPA at a top ranked program+fairly impressive ECs

Remove any one of those and you're still going to get into top schools.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Amazed that this thread, which gets thrown down every few days about now every year, can always get serious responses. Mcloaf said it first/best: you put the goddamned answer in the first line of your post. But your individual case is just SO much different.

No, it doesn't matter. Good schools send lots of people to good med schools because they're full of really smart people. The same smart person can get into any medical school from any undergraduate.

No, medical schools don't have a correction factor for your GPA based on where you did undergraduate. Sorry Cal Tech chem eng dude. Your entire app can make up for a subpar GPA, but no, "hard" schools and "hard" majors don't get some coefficient.

Pepperdine has some significant social limitations due to the religious nature of the institution which shouldn't be ignored. You have to get your sex in really early in the evening there, which can be hard for the late-closer. Just saying. But summering in Malibu is pretty sweet...

 

[Narmerguy]

Honesty, we send a very small percentage of the successful applicant class to top schools, but that's because my school A) generally has crappy applicants (sub-30 MCAT's and lots of cookie-cutter EC's) and B) is a feeder school for our state school, so a lot of applicants don't apply out of state, or don't do so seriously. The applicants that go on to top schools are our top applicants, and I think that makes perfect sense in our case.

And sorry, I misread your post and took it to refer to success within undergrad based on the school. That said, I still disagree that school name has some huge effect. I see literally zero reason to think it would limit an applicant, and though it may appear to give applicants a substantial boost...


...you can't really be sure. I just think it's funny how people argue that it definitely plays a role to X extent in Y case(s), when really you can't separate out factors like these and you can't make statements about them without anything to back them up.

I've given my real thoughts on the matter many times before though, so I'm not going to waste any more time typing.

👍 This has been discussed ad nauseum and there is no real evidence to believe that undergraduate institution plays a particularly important role for medical admissions. This is another one of those correlation not equaling causation problems: many applicants from ivy schools are successful in admissions, but that does not mean that they are successful because they are from ivy schools.

I agree with GTLO that it probably helps to some extent, but we can't know what that is, it probably varies by school, and most of the anecdotal evidence suggests that it doesn't matter that much.

 

[burbbs]

👍 This has been discussed ad nauseum and there is no real evidence to believe that undergraduate institution plays a particularly important role for medical admissions. This is another one of those correlation not equaling causation problems: many applicants from ivy schools are successful in admissions, but that does not mean that they are successful because they are from ivy schools.

I agree with GTLO that it probably helps to some extent, but we can't know what that is, it probably varies by school, and most of the anecdotal evidence suggests that it doesn't matter that much.

Perfect way to end this thread.