How much DPM really make?

[premed8880]

Good day,

A question for practicing podiatrists. I hope for your help!

I recently registered on the forum, and I did not find such information for DPM. I am a premed student and I would like to become a doctor. In college, I have a combined major in social sciences and biology. I have been in contact with both MD and DPM and with doctors of law JD. The fact is that now I see myself in both specialties, but the medical field seems more interesting.

However, I am confused by the fact of the salary. One DPM said that the PA receives the same or even more compensation with for 2 years of study with a much smaller debt, but I like podiatry for its surgical part.

According to some websites like usnews, JD and DPM are ranked on the 17th, 18th place, respectively, with an average salary of about 125,000. How I understand because of prospective jobs which with JD according to them have 35 times more. At the same time, the optometrist receives 117,000 according to their data. That is, the difference is small, on the forum I found this thread(How much do optometrists REALLY make? A case study) which says that the OD takes home only about 40,000-45000 after taxes, insurance and a loan.

The fact is that despite my merit scholarships, I already have a fairly large debt and JD take only 3 years, there is no residency and the debt is less. However, I am very passionate about medicine, but still compensation is also a very important issue and the forum topics are very controversial, I take into account that many complain that it is difficult to find a job, especially with good compensation. I would like to know what the DPM still think about this, maybe someone can roughly describe the expenses and take home salary after all deductions as in OD attached topic? I'm trying to understand because some people can say that a lawyer can make half of million the same as DPM, but I'm starting from realistic options, because I don't have the money to open my own practice. If I wrote something incorrectly, I’m sorry.

Best regards

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[DexterMorganSK]

The top right corner of this page is a Search tab; please use that and read the past threads on this topic. You're not the first user to ask this question and won't be the last, but over the last few years, there have been numerous discussions on the topic that you should find helpful.

 

[premed8880]

The top right corner of this page is a Search tab; please use that and read the past threads on this topic. You're not the first user to ask this question and won't be the last, but over the last few years, there have been numerous discussions on the topic that you should find helpful.

Hello! I find topic here about Podiatry Residency Salary . But it’s still the conversation when someone told it easy to make 200 and other said 70k is highly possible. The thing that I don’t know how much DPM spent on insurance and all others things. What is real salary after 5 year out of residency? If it 125000 like USNEWS indicate as average, how much DPM take home, is it the same 45000 as OD?

 

[dtrack22]

how much DPM take home, is it the same 45000 as OD?

Unfortunately, yes.

 

[premed8880]

Unfortunately, yes.

PM you

 

[HardRoadPaved]

easy to make 200

I sit in my office counting my Benjamin's all day. Leave the chip and clip to my fellows and residents.

 

[premed8880]

I sit in my office counting my Benjamin's all day. Leave the chip and clip to my fellows and residents.

It isn’t my thoughts about 200k, I mentioned that on that thread some people said that they make even 400k and suggest open practice immediately after residency, but it’s not work with me, because I’ll not have money for that. Because of this I’m asking about average DPM, because I think in a lot of profession it’s possible to find people who make x10 than average, same with JD, some get 40k after graduation, some go to Biglaw and get 180k.

 

[SouthPod7]

Employed DPM salary ranged enormously, and it matters almost entirely who is employing you.

Working for another Podiatrist as an associate? 80-100k most likely.

Hospital or MSG? Probably somewhere around 150k+

Board of Labor Statistics said average Pod salary is $134,300.

In my opinion, there are very few Pods making 400k. Those that are, are probably hospital based and killing it RVU wise or own a successful private practice.

 

[DYK343]

Here we go again.....

 

[shadesofgrey]

In almost every situation if you can get into a US MD school then go for MD>DPM. On average they have higher pay, more clinical and nonclinical options, easier loan forgiveness, etc.
IMO, if you have the option to enter either school, the only reason you should purposely go DPM >MD is if you have family waiting to hand you a practice or are 100% set on surgical field and are sure you won't be competitive for a surgical residency as an MD (probably not a good attitude to begin with). Again this is just my opinion, as there are some pods on here that seem to love their job and are doing quite well, they probably feel much differently.

Not that this should be your only consideration, but be careful with law school. Good initial compensation is almost exclusive to those coming from top tier law schools. I would be careful if you already have a substantial debt load and aren't getting into a well known program. The school rankings are incredibly important in determining earning potential.

 

[premed8880]

In almost every situation if you can get into a US MD school then go for MD>DPM. On average they have higher pay, more clinical and nonclinical options, easier loan forgiveness, etc.
IMO, if you have the option to enter either school, the only reason you should purposely go DPM >MD is if you have family waiting to hand you a practice or are 100% set on surgical field and are sure you won't be competitive for a surgical residency as an MD (probably not a good attitude to begin with). Again this is just my opinion, as there are some pods on here that seem to love their job and are doing quite well, they probably feel much differently.

Not that this should be your only consideration, but be careful with law school. Good initial compensation is almost exclusive to those coming from top tier law schools. I would be careful if you already have a substantial debt load and aren't getting into a well known program. The school rankings are incredibly important in determining earning potential.

Thank you! I just wondering that average by us news is basically the same JD vs DPM, but DPM take much more time… and I was discourage that OD spent more than 50% on taxes and insurance and other things. Unfortunately, I have no relatives which have tier either to Medical field or law… because of this I register and post question here, also the Pod which told me to look at PA discouraged me pretty well…

 

[DYK343]

Thank you! I just wondering that average by us news is basically the same JD vs DPM, but DPM take much more time… and I was discourage that OD spent more than 50% on taxes and insurance and other things. Unfortunately, I have no relatives which have tier either to Medical field or law… because of this I register and post question here, also the Pod which told me to look at PA discouraged me pretty well…

Youre going to find people that hate their job in every field.
Youre going to find top and bottom earners in every field.
Podiatry is a bit of a risk because many end up in private practice associate jobs that pay nothing.
Ownership/partnership in practice there is very good money to be made.
Hospital/Multispecialty group/ortho also very good money to be made.

I have bad days but I love my job and career. I make very good money. MSG employed.

Youre going to find a ton of negativity on this forum. Over the last 2-3 years its seemed to attract a lot of negative vibe. It never used to be that way.

Shadow different DPMs not just one.

I would not weigh your decision on this site.

 

[heybrother]

I don't mean this unkindly, but I'm skeptical a person can see themself as either a lawyer or a doctor unless they don't know enough about either.

In podiatry your pay is going to be something along these lines:

Hospital = Guaranteed salary for awhile or the Volume of Services You Provide x The Value of services you provide in RVUs multiplied by variable $ value taking into account locality and increasing in value as your productivity increases.

-You might actually have to take care of sick people / take call
-Your hospital may be awesome or may employ an army of "compliance clipboard nurses" who follow you around making you sign consents for injections and enter bottle numbers from your steroid injections so the hospital can be reimbursed $0.14 which is ridiculous because hospitals get paid way more for the same services performed in an outpatient PP office so there should be an assistant kneeling at your feet and increasing your productivity

Associate = The volume of services you provide x the value of services you perform which are likely worth less than they should be because of insurance companies, poor negotiation, etc + the volume of services you perform multiplied by zero (ha) ie. seeing other peoples globals, cleaning the office, etc multiplied by normally about 30% through some sort of complicated structure and very possibly paying for your own benefits or having no 401k etc

Owner = Services x Value x overhead%

"Super owner" (a term I just made up) = services x value + associate services x associate value x 70%

Residency Director = services x value + associate services x associate value x 70% + resident and fellow services x resident and fellow value

"Super Residency Director" = the above + student labor!

Your value ultimately is a reflection of your work and the amount of work you do is a reflection of the effort you put into building a practice and how well its run. Being an owner doesn't guarantee anything. There are at least 2 PPs in my town that are ghost towns. Their best bet is likely to try and reduce overhead. If you constantly move around, start over, jump ship to ship etc it will be difficult to build a name/clientele. Its been argued and there's some truth to it here that our goal is to see new patients and solve new problems, but there is something nice about a patient bringing their different problems to you through time. As much as I'd love to only perfectly solve new problems daily I make more seeing seeing new patients and follow-ups.

Hospital - likely $180-250K but wild variations into the upper $300-400s are possible and happen though there's likely a strong focus on coding and offering more procedures.

Associate - the common refrain here is "they get bonuses" but its entirely possible to not break into your bonus structure and simply earn $65-90K. If you collect $300K and have a 30% structure $90K is it. A small business podiatry owner seeing 25 people may think - gosh I'd love to expand this place but it may take their associate 2+ years to build up to that level or it may never happen. The real question was - if the owner had tried to add to 30-40 patients would they ever have made it. Six-figures is possible but the classic sort of perks 401K, insurance etc may not exist or may be lower quality. Weird shenanigans may exist. A friend of mine works about 2x as hard as I do and makes basically the same money.

Forget all the above for a second though. The schools continue to increase and increase the price of tuition. But for associate shenanigans it shouldn't be wildly difficult to make $150K at this job. $150K and $120K of school debt is probably manageable in a few years. $150K and $300K+ debt is a huge bummer. There's just only so much free cash available depending on the cost of health insurance, 401k etc.

 

[DYK343]

-Your hospital may be awesome or may employ an army of "compliance clipboard nurses" who follow you around making you sign consents for injections and enter bottle numbers from your steroid injections so the hospital can be reimbursed $0.14 which is ridiculous because hospitals get paid way more for the same services performed in an outpatient PP office so there should be an assistant kneeling at your feet and increasing your productivity

Uggghhh my life. If anything this generates the vast majority of my job unsatisfaction.

 

[NobodyDPM]

I'm always amazed when we talk about "how much money do you make", without talking about cost of living. It doesn't matter how much you make, per se. It matters how much it costs to live where you want to live and if you can make enough to make ends meet.

Those guys making $300K a year (if they really do that) live in CA where that isn't nearly as much as if you live in the sticks, and make $120K. Yes, student loans, blah, blah, blah, but I'll also tell you, living in NJ, your property taxes are 20X what they would be in the middle of FL. And bringing up a family costs A LOT more in NJ, than in FL. I also find that pay is directly related to that as well. The first region I worked in, you could make an incredible living making $100K (at the time). So you started at less than that as an associate in a PP.

You want to make **** tons of money? Medicine is not for you. Not anymore. This isn't the late 80s and it'll get worse before it gets better.

 

[NobodyDPM]

In almost every situation if you can get into a US MD school then go for MD>DPM. On average they have higher pay, more clinical and nonclinical options, easier loan forgiveness, etc.
IMO, if you have the option to enter either school, the only reason you should purposely go DPM >MD is if you have family waiting to hand you a practice or are 100% set on surgical field and are sure you won't be competitive for a surgical residency as an MD (probably not a good attitude to begin with). Again this is just my opinion, as there are some pods on here that seem to love their job and are doing quite well, they probably feel much differently.

Not that this should be your only consideration, but be careful with law school. Good initial compensation is almost exclusive to those coming from top tier law schools. I would be careful if you already have a substantial debt load and aren't getting into a well known program. The school rankings are incredibly important in determining earning potential.

No. Do what you love to do. And don't go into Podiatry School to "settle" because you didn't get into Allopathic Medical School.

And no, going to podiatry school shouldn't mean you have someone just willing to hand you a practice. That's terrible advice. And that just doesn't happen anymore. The exception is if one of your parents is/was a Podiatrist.

I will also take issue with what you said about salaries for MDs. The vast majority of MDs don't get the flashy residencies that net you big bucks when you graduate. One of my close friends is on the admission board of a local Medical School. That Medical School will waive your MCAT and every requirement other than the core courses you need if you agree to go into Family Medicine as a career. Family Medicine Docs don't do much better than the low end pay for a Podiatrist.

Law School? Especially now, there are more starving Lawyers than starving Doctors out there.

Can you educate me on the loan forgiveness issue. I have not heard that.

 

[Startingover123]

No. Do what you love to do. And don't go into Podiatry School to "settle" because you didn't get into Allopathic Medical School.

And no, going to podiatry school shouldn't mean you have someone just willing to hand you a practice. That's terrible advice. And that just doesn't happen anymore. The exception is if one of your parents is/was a Podiatrist.

I will also take issue with what you said about salaries for MDs. The vast majority of MDs don't get the flashy residencies that net you big bucks when you graduate. One of my close friends is on the admission board of a local Medical School. That Medical School will waive your MCAT and every requirement other than the core courses you need if you agree to go into Family Medicine as a career. Family Medicine Docs don't do much better than the low end pay for a Podiatrist.

Law School? Especially now, there are more starving Lawyers than starving Doctors out there.

Can you educate me on the loan forgiveness issue. I have not heard that.

Not many family practice docs making 90k in pp.

 

[dtrack22]

Family Medicine Docs don't do much better than the low end pay for a Podiatrist.

Not even close to true. Even peds residents who go to private pediatric groups are paid closer to $200k than $100k. Family medicine docs can join MSGs and hospitals all over the country for $200k base salaries. In MSGs where they keep labs in house, it’s common for family medicine to be more like $300k.

go in the practicing physicians forum and ask any of the family medicine docs if they pay new doctors in their group around $100k. Or better yet, ask them if they make around $100k 😂

 

[dtrack22]

Those guys making $300K a year (if they really do that) live in CA where that isn't nearly as much as if you live in the sticks, and make $120K.

Median compensation for podiatrists in last years MGMA survey (nationally) was $306k.

My base salary is median MGMA compensation for my region. I outproduce my base by a little over 100 wRVU per month. I will make around $70-80k over that base salary this year. I live an area that is significantly cheaper than CA, and NJ, and basically every major metro in the country.

Still won’t answer how you code that visit in the other thread huh?

 

[shadesofgrey]

No. Do what you love to do. And don't go into Podiatry School to "settle" because you didn't get into Allopathic Medical School.

And no, going to podiatry school shouldn't mean you have someone just willing to hand you a practice. That's terrible advice. And that just doesn't happen anymore. The exception is if one of your parents is/was a Podiatrist.

I will also take issue with what you said about salaries for MDs. The vast majority of MDs don't get the flashy residencies that net you big bucks when you graduate. One of my close friends is on the admission board of a local Medical School. That Medical School will waive your MCAT and every requirement other than the core courses you need if you agree to go into Family Medicine as a career. Family Medicine Docs don't do much better than the low end pay for a Podiatrist.

Law School? Especially now, there are more starving Lawyers than starving Doctors out there.

Can you educate me on the loan forgiveness issue. I have not heard that.

Yes, yes. Do what you love, yada yada yada. My point is if he can attend either professional school (md or dpm) go the md route. Then if he wants, shoot for a surgical specialty. As I prefaced, my opinion.

As someone who has looked into buying several practices, I’m well aware that no one is giving away their practices, rather retiring docs seem to over value. I guess I should have been more specific, but I was alluding to taking over a practice from a relative as a good reason to go podiatry route.

I think Dtrack responded appropriately to your comments on low-end pod vs family med compensation.

As for the loan forgiveness, it is just easier to get a position with a hospital or nonprofit as an md. Which means 10 years and loans are forgiven, but also very common to have student loan repayment as part of your compensation. More hospitals are starting to hire dpms but it’s still not the norm. Finally there are sometimes state/local government programs that provide loan relief to docs in underserved areas, these are hit or miss if pods are included.

 

[premed8880]

Median compensation for podiatrists in last years MGMA survey (nationally) was $306k.

My base salary is median MGMA compensation for my region. I outproduce my base by a little over 100 wRVU per month. I will make around $70-80k over that base salary this year. I live an area that is significantly cheaper than CA, and NJ, and basically every major metro in the country.

Still won’t answer how you code that visit in the other thread huh?

In general, how possible to get into MGMA and in which year after residency? Also, is podiatry school matter in way of better position?

 

[NobodyDPM]

Median compensation for podiatrists in last years MGMA survey (nationally) was $306k.

My base salary is median MGMA compensation for my region. I outproduce my base by a little over 100 wRVU per month. I will make around $70-80k over that base salary this year. I live an area that is significantly cheaper than CA, and NJ, and basically every major metro in the country.

Still won’t answer how you code that visit in the other thread huh?

Bold mine.

Just because you didn't get an answer you like, doesn't mean I didn't answer the question.

You have trouble letting things go, don't you?

Why do you always talk about your RVUs? It's very strange.

 

[NobodyDPM]

Not even close to true. Even peds residents who go to private pediatric groups are paid closer to $200k than $100k. Family medicine docs can join MSGs and hospitals all over the country for $200k base salaries. In MSGs where they keep labs in house, it’s common for family medicine to be more like $300k.

go in the practicing physicians forum and ask any of the family medicine docs if they pay new doctors in their group around $100k. Or better yet, ask them if they make around $100k 😂

Yes, of course, just like Podiatrists can join Ortho practices and start making $250K a year out of residencies right? Come on, man.

 

[dtrack22]

Just because you didn't get an answer you like, doesn't mean I didn't answer the question.

You have trouble letting things go, don't you?

Why do you always talk about your RVUs? It's very strange.

you didn’t answer at all. First you said “there’s always pain attached,” which then turned into “I never bill pain as primary for the e/m.” All you had to do was insert 1-2 dx codes but you didn’t because you know for patients like that your coding practices are questionable. The more I thought about it the less surprised I was. Northeast private practice DPM who’s been audited by Medicare several times and believes the people here claiming to make $300k are either lying or live in CA. Your posts make more sense now.

And I talk about wRVUs because that’s how I’m paid now. I spent 3 years never making more than $100k working for other podiatrists and then I had my own practice for a bit. So I can talk $ in terms of collections if you’d prefer…

Yes, of course, just like Podiatrists can join Ortho practices and start making $250K a year out of residencies right?

Nurse Practicioners in our group make around $140k doing family medicine. MGMA surveys show a median compensation for family medicine (without doing any OB) is $247,000. The fact that you question employed podiatrists making $300k and think that family medicine graduates are anywhere near the $100k “podiatry associate” salary shows how out of touch you are with the current job market. That’s not to say podiatrists have plenty of options to avoid being an associate in a Podiatry group, they don’t. But family practice MDs do, all over the country. A local hospital (medium sized, regional hospital, not rural but not close to a large teaching or metro hospital), is recruiting 4 family medicine positions and they are offering $100k just in various sign on bonuses

 

[premed8880]

you didn’t answer at all. First you said “there’s always pain attached,” which then turned into “I never bill pain as primary for the e/m.” All you had to do was insert 1-2 dx codes but you didn’t because you know for patients like that your coding practices are questionable. The more I thought about it the less surprised I was. Northeast private practice DPM who’s been audited by Medicare several times and believes the people here claiming to make $300k are either lying or live in CA. Your posts make more sense now.

And I talk about wRVUs because that’s how I’m paid now. I spent 3 years never making more than $100k working for other podiatrists and then I had my own practice for a bit. So I can talk $ in terms of collections if you’d prefer…


Nurse Practicioners in our group make around $140k doing family medicine. MGMA surgery’s show a median compensation for family medicine (without doing any OB) is $247,000. The fact that you question employed podiatrists making $300k and think that family medicine graduates are anywhere near the $100k “podiatry associate” salary shows how out of touch you are with the current job market. That’s not to say podiatrists have plenty of options to avoid being an associate in a Podiatry group, they don’t. But family practice MDs do, all over the country. A local hospital (medium sized, regional hospital, not rural but not close to a large teaching or metro hospital), is recruiting 4 family medicine positions and they are offering $100k just in various sign on bonuses

so, after residency there is a possibility to just left with no job offers? Even 70-90k? I heard that podiatry saturated as well as OD and DDS now, but DDS which I shadowed told me that 100k is minimum for them just out of school…

 

[Shiyuan]

Don't know about y'all, but every year I make:

 

[NobodyDPM]

you didn’t answer at all. First you said “there’s always pain attached,” which then turned into “I never bill pain as primary for the e/m.” All you had to do was insert 1-2 dx codes but you didn’t because you know for patients like that your coding practices are questionable. The more I thought about it the less surprised I was. Northeast private practice DPM who’s been audited by Medicare several times and believes the people here claiming to make $300k are either lying or live in CA. Your posts make more sense now.

And I talk about wRVUs because that’s how I’m paid now. I spent 3 years never making more than $100k working for other podiatrists and then I had my own practice for a bit. So I can talk $ in terms of collections if you’d prefer…


Nurse Practicioners in our group make around $140k doing family medicine. MGMA surveys show a median compensation for family medicine (without doing any OB) is $247,000. The fact that you question employed podiatrists making $300k and think that family medicine graduates are anywhere near the $100k “podiatry associate” salary shows how out of touch you are with the current job market. That’s not to say podiatrists have plenty of options to avoid being an associate in a Podiatry group, they don’t. But family practice MDs do, all over the country. A local hospital (medium sized, regional hospital, not rural but not close to a large teaching or metro hospital), is recruiting 4 family medicine positions and they are offering $100k just in various sign on bonuses

LMAO...thank you for your opinions and assumptions about me.

These forums aren't a **** measuring contest are they? Seems to me, for you, they are. I don't play that way. You do. Good for you.

You see, I'm not here to convince you or anyone else what I think should be done. I'm here to read and offer advice on what I've learned, in my decades of practice. I'm also here to read and learn what's new and what I could maybe change, to be better.

How about you set aside your ridiculous rhetoric and hilarious sense of superiority and let it go? Thanks.

 

[Feli]

A lot to consider:
Private group/hospital vs univ/federal hospital (or one that relies heavy on federal payers)...
Group vs solo...
Single location vs multi...
W2 vs 1099...
Podiatry group vs multi-specialty orortho groups...
Venture capital vs small biz...
Board cert vs not...
Ownership shares in the group, ASC, pharma, etc...
Good or subpar payers in the county...
Saturated area for DPMs vs free range...
HCOL vs LCOL...
Near a pod school/residency city or nowhere close...
Do you drive a 2021 Beemer SUV or a 2009 Kia coupe...
2br apt or 5br house in the burbs...
Do you get bottle service for models, or did you just marry the 6 you dated in high school?

A lot to consider. I would say that the average DPM income range after residency is probably (drumroll)... around roughly $75k-1075k per year. The mean and median and other stats terms would probably be $100k-300k approximately... well, ballpark anyways. It's hard to say.
...There are outliers.
...That's before taxes.
...Benefits must be considered.
...Hope that's helpful.

... I'm skeptical a person can see themself as either a lawyer or a doctor ...

Lawyers invented cashectomy procedures... doctors just refined it, but we copied them.

 

[premed8880]

A lot to consider:
Private group/hospital vs univ/federal hospital (or one that relies heavy on federal payers)...
Group vs solo...
Single location vs multi...
W2 vs 1099...
Podiatry group vs multi-specialty orortho groups...
Venture capital vs small biz...
Board cert vs not...
Ownership shares in the group, ASC, pharma, etc...
Good or subpar payers in the county...
Saturated area for DPMs vs free range...
HCOL vs LCOL...
Near a pod school/residency city or nowhere close...
Do you drive a 2021 Beemer SUV or a 2009 Kia coupe...
2br apt or 5br house in the burbs...
Do you get bottle service for models, or did you just marry the 6 you dated in high school?

A lot to consider. I would say that the average DPM income range after residency is probably (drumroll)... around roughly $75k-1075k per year. The mean and median and other stats terms would probably be $100k-300k approximately... well, ballpark anyways. It's hard to say.
...There are outliers.
...That's before taxes.
...Benefits must be considered.
...Hope that's helpful.


Lawyers invented cashectomy procedures... doctors just refined it, but we copied them.

Thank you!
Is Podiatry school matter in terms of compensation? How I understand all DPM residency now the same 3 year, or there is still the same as MD, better school -> better residency -> better job/higher salary?

 

[Weirdy]

Please be respectful.

If you have issues- I suggest you meet at someone's hospital parking lot, rig up a boxing ring, and tell us how you guys do after 3 rounds.

Everyone sounds tough on the internet. There are only so many of us even if the majority are as*holes. Please keep fighting the good fight and respect each other.

 

[NobodyDPM]

Please be respectful.

If you have issues- I suggest you meet at someone's hospital parking lot, rig up a boxing ring, and tell us how you guys do after 3 rounds.

Everyone sounds tough on the internet. There are only so many of us even if the majority are as*holes. Please keep fighting the good fight and respect each other.

Respect is earned.

I used to compete MMA. I'll be fine.

 

[Weirdy]

Good day,

1) If financial compensation is the biggest deciding factor for you, then you have not done your research and clearly do not know what it took for the attendings on here to get to where they are. Stop focusing on the money. Figure out what you value in life and if the TIME and ENERGY invested is worth going down this route. Do you even like it? Can you pass your board exams and graduate? Can you survive residency? Can you do it day in day out for the next 20+ years dealing with BS like lazy front desk staff or local DPMs who purposely try to sink your business? Its healthy to come in hungry and with energy while you are pre-whatever. It is a different story when you follow them day in day out and the things they have to put up with to get to where they are. Pre-whatevers don't see that. They only see the roses.

2) You are a pre-something asking attendings who have gone through podiatry school, residency training, and established work post-training how much money they make. The more patient ones are willing to give you a straight answer because they realize you are young and it is a legitimate consideration before going in. But what does that make you - someone who is not even a student yet- look like? Where are your priorities?

3) If financial compensation is the bigger reason keeping you from deciding between DPM/OD/JD - you will not survive in this field. The money is not worth what you will go through. Money will not drive you hard enough to survive school or residency training or the job hunt and establishment after.

Use the search function. Reassess your priorities. When everything smells like roses, compare all the cons.

 

[Weirdy]

Respect is earned.

I used to compete MMA. I'll be fine.

Down for some pointers on hooks and body shots.

Point still stands. Please keep it neutral as much as you can. We have enough people throwing each other under the bus. No one is perfect but I believe both you and dtrack are better than that. You guys have to be to even give us advice on this forum.

 

[NobodyDPM]

Down for some pointers on hooks and body shots.

Point still stands. Please keep it neutral as much as you can. We have enough people throwing each other under the bus. No one is perfect but I believe both you and dtrack are better than that. You guys have to be to even give us advice on this forum.

Side step before body shots, and pivot on your front foot to put your whole hip into the punch. If you are a righty, keep your left hand up, but tuck it into your side somewhat to avoid a counter from your opponent's right side. Kick or punch counter. When you've executed the blow, keep your outside momentum to end up on your opponents blind side and hope to straight with the same hand you hit the body shot with. Knockout blow to the left side of opponent's face.

Really got to be careful with a hook. It can really expose your whole side to a counter. Especially with a roundhouse. Liver shot from a round house will knock you out. Proceed with caution.

And understood.

 

[premed8880]

1) If financial compensation is the biggest deciding factor for you, then you have not done your research and clearly do not know what it took for the attendings on here to get to where they are. Stop focusing on the money. Figure out what you value in life and if the TIME and ENERGY invested is worth going down this route. Do you even like it? Can you pass your board exams and graduate? Can you survive residency? Can you do it day in day out for the next 20+ years dealing with BS like lazy front desk staff or local DPMs who purposely try to sink your business? Its healthy to come in hungry and with energy while you are pre-whatever. It is a different story when you follow them day in day out and the things they have to put up with to get to where they are. Pre-whatevers don't see that. They only see the roses.

2) You are a pre-something asking attendings who have gone through podiatry school, residency training, and established work post-training how much money they make. The more patient ones are willing to give you a straight answer because they realize you are young and it is a legitimate consideration before going in. But what does that make you - someone who is not even a student yet- look like? Where are your priorities?

3) If financial compensation is the bigger reason keeping you from deciding between DPM/OD/JD - you will not survive in this field. The money is not worth what you will go through. Money will not drive you hard enough to survive school or residency training or the job hunt and establishment after.

Use the search function. Reassess your priorities. When everything smells like roses, compare all the cons.

I have a passion for medicine regardless of money, but I also need to know, especially when you are a shadow of podiatrists and one says to look at the career of a PA, the other says that you will wallow in debt. It all scares me much, as a college student, when experienced DPM tell you this. That's why I asked this question here to find out the opinion of not just 2 doctors, but different podiatrists and not only from my region. I plan to take MCAT in January, and as I understand it, there are quite likely chances to get into a podiatry school in February, so I will find out now, by the way thank you!

 

[DYK343]

I have a passion for medicine regardless of money, but I also need to know, especially when you are a shadow of podiatrists and one says to look at the career of a PA, the other says that you will wallow in debt. It all scares me much, as a college student, when experienced DPM tell you this. That's why I asked this question here to find out the opinion of not just 2 doctors, but different podiatrists and not only from my region. I plan to take MCAT in January, and as I understand it, there are quite likely chances to get into a podiatry school in February, so I will find out now, by the way thank you!

Youre not being unreasonable. If there is no way to make a living at the end of a long road its not worth it. Especially saddled with debt. I dont think anyone can fault your question (though with search function its been discussed over and over and always ends in an internet tough guy pissing match).

A lot of podiatrists end up with really poor private practice associate jobs right out of residency that pay 90k but eventually move on. This is a fact.

Almost all the regular posters on here make really good money even if they started in the 90k trenches.

There are exceptions, but the problem is no one wants a fresh inexperienced DPM right out of residency unless they are to be taken advantage of. Get some experience under the belt and suddenly your DPM degree is much more valuable to employers.

Hospital and multispecialty groups are getting more and more common to employ DPMs because we make them a ton of money. Private practice ownership is also lucrative if done right.

Most established podiatrists will make >200k a year and if you're not you're doing something wrong. If you run an efficient practice, do good work, establish referral sources 300k a year should be fairly easy to reach. 400+k a year takes a lot of work, long hours, and probably some luck but is doable as a DPM.

Again, I wouldnt weigh your decision based on this message board. Get out and shadow 3-4 different DPMs.

If you were to shadow me I would probably say something along the lines of: "Top students get top residencies which get top jobs. Bottom students get middle or low quality residencies and get the same quality job at the end."

There is always going to be exceptions to that. I know a few personally on both ends (Allstar got bottom job. Idiot got great job). But thats the general trend. If you chose DPM make sure you take it seriously day 1 through residency. But maybe thats my type A personality coming out.

 

[NobodyDPM]

Youre not being unreasonable. If there is no way to make a living at the end of a long road its not worth it. Especially saddled with debt. I dont think anyone can fault your question (though with search function its been discussed over and over and always ends in an internet tough guy pissing match).

A lot of podiatrists end up with really poor private practice associate jobs right out of residency that pay 90k but eventually move on. This is a fact.

Almost all the regular posters on here make really good money even if they started in the 90k trenches.

There are exceptions, but the problem is no one wants a fresh inexperienced DPM right out of residency unless they are to be taken advantage of. Get some experience under the belt and suddenly your DPM degree is much more valuable to employers.

Hospital and multispecialty groups are getting more and more common to employ DPMs because we make them a ton of money. Private practice ownership is also lucrative if done right.

Most established podiatrists will make >200k a year and if you're not you're doing something wrong. If you run an efficient practice, do good work, establish referral sources 300k a year should be fairly easy to reach. 400+k a year takes a lot of work, long hours, and probably some luck but is doable as a DPM.

Again, I wouldnt weigh your decision based on this message board. Get out and shadow 3-4 different DPMs.

If you were to shadow me I would probably say something along the lines of: "Top students get top residencies which get top jobs. Bottom students get middle or low quality residencies and get the same quality job at the end."

There is always going to be exceptions to that. I know a few personally on both ends (Allstar got bottom job. Idiot got great job). But thats the general trend. If you chose DPM make sure you take it seriously day 1 through residency. But maybe thats my type A personality coming out.

Bold mine. I'm sorry, but no. I can't even begin to break this down. This was true for 2 generations ago, easily. But now, not so much.

Another member here put up a survey that showed something like this, and that survey only represented something like 3% of the Podiatrist population in the USA.

 

[HardRoadPaved]

I believe it when I hear 200k is a reach for many dpms. I hit that in year 2 of an associate mill by straight hustling and learning. My other colleagues were just lazy and didnt care. I just think of some of my classmates that I wouldn't let them tie my shoes.

 

[NobodyDPM]

I believe it when I hear 200k is a reach for many dpms. I hit that in year 2 of an associate mill by straight hustling and learning. My other colleagues were just lazy and didnt care. I just think of some of my classmates that I wouldn't let them tie my shoes.

I don't think many people realize how bad doctors are about business. Even doctors that have been out for decades are clueless about billing.

Just listen to all the stories here about how associates are learning terrible billing habits. And then there's actually running a medical business. How many stories have we heard about doctors getting ripped off by their staff or administrators. Can't make a **** ton of money if you're clueless or getting ripped off.

 

[heybrother]

I believe it when I hear 200k is a reach for many dpms. I hit that in year 2 of an associate mill by straight hustling and learning. My other colleagues were just lazy and didnt care. I just think of some of my classmates that I wouldn't let them tie my shoes.

Pre-pods be like $200K!!! but I want to know what you had to do to earn it.

 

[HardRoadPaved]

Pre-pods be like $200K!!! but I want to know what you had to do to earn it.

simple. took care of the schedulers. treat them like gold, feed them pizza and candy and they'll fill you first over some other lazy associate..... oh and injudicious use of the -25 modifier.

 

[Pronation]

Pre-pods be like $200K!!! but I want to know what you had to do to earn it.

Associate mill slave hitting 200k? Selling lots of lotions & potions, everybody gets worthless padNet testing, taking those stupid epidermal nerve fiber biopsies on every diabetic and then selling them vitamins for neuropathy...

Also I don't know of anyone in my circle that is hospital/MSG/ortho employed and making any less than 250k.

 

[Weirdy]

Had a conversation with my wife about this.

Havn't even finished 1st year of residency yet but I'm already worried about finding a job in a location where wife and future kids will be happy.

Its a legitimate concern but it seems people make the most of what they're given, grind, and come out on top. For the most part.

Or not.

 

[HardRoadPaved]

I'm already worried about finding a job in a location where wife and future kids will be happy.

Just have to define what happiness is. Is it driving the newest beamer and a bloated house in HCOL area while you work 80-100hrs and take lots of call vs. you work 40-60 hrs make ok cash and live a simpler life in a LCOL area.

Jobs are everywhere.

Associate mill slave hitting 200k? Selling lots of lotions & potions, everybody gets worthless padNet testing, taking those stupid epidermal nerve fiber biopsies on every diabetic and then selling them vitamins for neuropathy...

PADnets fetch $125 for TC but made sure to order when needed. epidermal nerve fiber tests arent covered by insurance so havent done that. didnt do that vitamin crap but made sure to sell pads and straps. didnt mind pushing urea cream. hustled DME of course.

Did I pack my schedule and see 30-40 patients per day? Yes. Take lots of call 1-2 weekends per month? Yes. Take time off? No. Watch my boss take 2 week vacays and have a nice whip? you betcha. Did I learn my lessons and run far away once I had the steam and confidence to open up? hell yea.

 

[air bud]

Had a conversation with my wife about this.

Havn't even finished 1st year of residency yet but I'm already worried about finding a job in a location where wife and future kids will be happy.

Its a legitimate concern but it seems people make the most of what they're given, grind, and come out on top. For the most part.

Or not.

Yeah. You should be. Start calling and making connections now. And start brainwashing your wife into the idea that the first job is not the last job. And always remember this: "Write your plan in pencil, not pen" Things change.

 

[DYK343]

I don't think many people realize how bad doctors are about business. Even doctors that have been out for decades are clueless about billing.

Didnt you just reply that 200k is not possible or not a norm?

Because you're doing something wrong.