How much harder is Medical School than a full time job?

BU Medical Sciences
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MJB said:
Preach on....
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???? not sure if you're being rude or nice.

At any rate, if you don't like what I have to say, don't read it, or put me on ignore.
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I really think that the med school vs. college + work is hard to compare until you have done both. Many of the so called traditionals haven't ever worked a job or consider the 8 +/- hours a week of tutoring to be a job so I take their reply with a grain of salt, some do work jobs so don't go hating the defboy just yet... later maybe. I really can't wait for it to get rolling for me. I've worked at least 1 FT job since I was 14(my folks owned a gas station so I was legal to work and for $0:eek: ). I think it will be nice to focus on school and family as to so many other things. It will be hard but welcomed.
 
resxn said:
For me the hardest part of med school was getting in. I didn't really find the work that hard. Time-consuming because of volume, maybe, but not "hard" to understand. But I also came in with lots of science and anatomy background.

What I found in med school was that there was not much effort in studying to get from a 70% to an 85% on any particular test. (In our school, we had a P-F only the first 2 years and you had to get 75% to pass). However, there was an enormous effort that took getting from a 90% to a 95%. After I got over my Type A OCD need to get 95% and was ok getting between 85-90% I didn't have to spend nearly as much time studying and had more free time to enjoy life which I think helped prevent me from burning out.
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Here, here. Not in med school yet, but for my prereqs (yes, they're really easy, blah blah blah) and my my other coursework as a BA a few years back, that was always absolutely the case, though, once again, if the material was interesting, I didn't mind the gobs of time getting to the >95%.

I've been logging about 70 hours/wk between work and school, and very little of that time is studying, because it isn't necessary yet. But in my previous life, my grad classes regularly came with 1000+ pages of reading/class meeting, and that was just the required component (difference is, in grad school you have way more free time, unless of course you're stuck grading 300 freshman exams for a prof). My plan is to start fishing for good USMLE study guides the day I get accepted, so that all of my study time is well targeted. I'm good at targeting what profs are looking for on exams, and I'm a little nervous about spending too much time studying what they want, and not retaining what I need for Step I and force feeding myself data for that, instead of "just" reviewing.
 
montessori2md said:
Here, here. Not in med school yet, but for my prereqs (yes, they're really easy, blah blah blah) and my my other coursework as a BA a few years back, that was always absolutely the case, though, once again, if the material was interesting, I didn't mind the gobs of time getting to the >95%.

I've been logging about 70 hours/wk between work and school, and very little of that time is studying, because it isn't necessary yet. But in my previous life, my grad classes regularly came with 1000+ pages of reading/class meeting, and that was just the required component (difference is, in grad school you have way more free time, unless of course you're stuck grading 300 freshman exams for a prof). My plan is to start fishing for good USMLE study guides the day I get accepted, so that all of my study time is well targeted. I'm good at targeting what profs are looking for on exams, and I'm a little nervous about spending too much time studying what they want, and not retaining what I need for Step I and force feeding myself data for that, instead of "just" reviewing.
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Your not the only one. I too have my eye on the USMLE, but I am holding myself back from getting any review guides or information about it because after all, I am not even accepted anywhere yet! I really just viewed the MCAT as an ugly obstacle in my way, something I had to do to keep moving forward with my goals (I hated preparing for it because I really don't care how to caulculate the veolcity of a swinging pendulum for instance). I view the USMLE as something I really want to go all out on to prove myself. Its almost an end unto itsself for me as well as being another requirement for graduation and a good residency later on. But first things first.
 
defboy said:
Many of the so called traditionals haven't ever worked a job or consider the 8 +/- hours a week of tutoring to be a job so I take their reply with a grain of salt, some do work jobs so don't go hating the defboy just yet...
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Actually a good percentage of those posting on the nontrad board have worked pretty significant jobs before med school.
 
Filibuster said:
Yeah, if we include that then I'd say Medical School would be less time consuming. At least for me it had to be. I had weeks of 100+ hours, easily. Then again, I applied to nearly 40 schools.

Thank God I've got my acceptance, so that step is history. But I'm more interested in how Medical School compares to a regular job. Not that there is such a thing. I'm a software developer right now and actually I'm working on a project from home. I'll easily log 60 hours this week.
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congrats on your acceptance! as a nurse I'd work 80+/wk for the money...and it wasn't too hard to balance, but in med school i am paying to get my ass kicked! don't get me wrong, I love finally being here but doing 16 hr days studying is way harder than 16 hr days at work! good luck in your studies
 
Chopstick is right on. I was a RN for 6 years before medschool. I usually worked 80+ hours. I thought medschool would be a good break from that. Wrong!!!

In medical school you have to study HARD no matter how smart you think you may be. You especially have to put in long hours studying if you want the more competetive residencies (which you WILL want after going through all of this pain).

Now I'm an intern working 80+ hrs/week. (I'm writing this at 2:45 am on call, waiting to see if I'm going to have to intuabte someone if they don't perk up soon) Even the brutal hours and stress of internship doesn't compare to the stress and overwhelming amount of material you have to memorize during medical school. It was fun but I wouln't want to go through that again.

Good luck to you non-trads. It may seem like a long and tortuous journey but it is VERY rewarding. I've enjoyed every minute of it.
 
I think the reward at the end is what I look forward to..

I could work my job for the next 25 years and retire comfortably, but I don't think I would ever have a sense of accomplishment. That is a huge motivating factor.
 
Haemulon said:
Your not the only one. I too have my eye on the USMLE, but I am holding myself back from getting any review guides or information about it because after all, I am not even accepted anywhere yet! I really just viewed the MCAT as an ugly obstacle in my way, something I had to do to keep moving forward with my goals (I hated preparing for it because I really don't care how to caulculate the veolcity of a swinging pendulum for instance). I view the USMLE as something I really want to go all out on to prove myself. Its almost an end unto itsself for me as well as being another requirement for graduation and a good residency later on. But first things first.
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It's great that you guys are thinking ahead, but don't start reading USMLE study guides before you start medical school. You won't understand anything, and it will just freak you out. Seriously. I think the best thing to do is to get First Aid and read the appropriate sections along with your classes. So, for example, when you're finishing biochem, read the First Aid biochem section, and so on. The newer editions (2006 and 2007) are organized by organ systems, so that works really well if your curriculum is also organ-based. If it's not (like, if you take separate anatomy, physiology, histo, etc. classes), then you'll have to go through each chapter of First Aid and pick out what you need, or get an edition from pre-2006.
 
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I'm seriously in complete awe when I hear how hard students say med school is. I thought I was a "gunner" studying, at max, maybe 15 hrs a week and going to most lectures (maybe 15-20 hrs/week worth). I'm still in the top 10-15% of my class and I'm NOT any more intelligent than the average student.

For me, working full time was much harder. Having to physically be in a certain place from, say, 9-5, M-F was just a pain in the ass. In med school you can do whatever you want - skip lecture, go work out, goof off, whatever.

The material we are learning isn't conceptually difficult. Sure, there's a lot of it, but I'm amazed that some people are spending more than 4 hrs a day post- lecture studying. Your brain can only absorb so much material at once, trying to study every day while fatigued while burning the midnight oil just isn't effective or practical.

I know for a fact that many people in my class are having just as much fun, or close to it, as in undergrad.
 
MyNameIsOtto said:
I'm seriously in complete awe when I hear how hard students say med school is. I thought I was a "gunner" studying, at max, maybe 15 hrs a week and going to most lectures (maybe 15-20 hrs/week worth). I'm still in the top 10-15% of my class and I'm NOT any more intelligent than the average student.

For me, working full time was much harder. Having to physically be in a certain place from, say, 9-5, M-F was just a pain in the ass. In med school you can do whatever you want - skip lecture, go work out, goof off, whatever.

The material we are learning isn't conceptually difficult. Sure, there's a lot of it, but I'm amazed that some people are spending more than 4 hrs a day post- lecture studying. Your brain can only absorb so much material at once, trying to study every day while fatigued while burning the midnight oil just isn't effective or practical.

I know for a fact that many people in my class are having just as much fun, or close to it, as in undergrad.
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I totally agree with you about studying at medical school. As a first year, I can unequivocally say that I worked a lot harder in my post-bacc program than I did my first semester of medical school. Obviously this depends on the person, and some people study more than I do in my class (and some less). This also depends a LOT on the school - mine is pass/fail, which takes a lot of pressure off once you decide you aren't trying for the top 20%. My post-bacc was very competitive and A's all around was my goal so I could get into medical school - this forced me to spend the majority of my free time studying. Honestly, going to a pass/fail medical school was just about the best thing I could have done for myself after the competitiveness of my post-bacc days!

The Dean of student affairs at my school told me on one of the first days that studying more than 4 hours a day was not a good idea, and that making time for other activities, exercise, and relaxation was an absolute must. I think this was wise advice, since burnout and depression are very likely if you don't let yourself do other things. Obviously right before exams you need to step things up, but pacing yourself is crucial for success!
 
QofQuimica said:
It's great that you guys are thinking ahead, but don't start reading USMLE study guides before you start medical school. You won't understand anything, and it will just freak you out. Seriously. I think the best thing to do is to get First Aid and read the appropriate sections along with your classes. So, for example, when you're finishing biochem, read the First Aid biochem section, and so on. The newer editions (2006 and 2007) are organized by organ systems, so that works really well if your curriculum is also organ-based. If it's not (like, if you take separate anatomy, physiology, histo, etc. classes), then you'll have to go through each chapter of First Aid and pick out what you need, or get an edition from pre-2006.
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I agree with what QofQuimica says. I didn't start doing this until second year, but that was because my 2nd year of med school was mostly organ based. It helped me get through my step 1 exam.



Wook
 
Filibuster said:
Quite simply, I'm looking for opinions from people about how much harder medical school is compared to working a full time job... say 50 hours a week not including the mandatory white knuckle commute. Maybe harder isn't the word I should be using, how about time consuming.
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Depends on how much work you put into school, period. Take the amount you worked in full-time undergrad and double it (maybe triple it if you're shooting for the dean's list). Some people work harder than others at school.

I would much rather do med school than a 50-hour job. Much less work from my perspective (assuming it's an intense professional job, which I've had before). Example: I stayed in bed today, there's a lot of snow on the ground and I never quite got moving. I realize that the clinical rotations are not like this, they're much harder. (I'm not there yet.)

But I know people who put in about 90 hours a week, between class and study.

So it depends.
 
Definitely depends on what kind of student you are, like everybody said. I went through undergrad as a full-time student, working part-time. Then I had a full-time job, had to study for the MCAT, compete to get in and it all seemed hard at the time. But it was nothing compared to med school.
The concepts are easy to understand but the volume is insane. I guess the hardest is to adjust to the amount of material and determine the number of hours you need to study to pass your classes. Med school made Organic chemistry look like a walk in the park. A lot of it is very interesting, thank God but sometime knowing that you have to study so much makes you forget that it is interesting.
Also with a full-time job, when it's 5pm, you go home and you have the rest of the evening and your weekends to enjoy life, in med school it's never really over, you can always learn more. You know you're a med student when it's Friday evening and you're learning everything about the cranial nerves but it's all worth it in the end!...I hope...
 
Hmm...well, I worked full time for five years, did a full-time post-bacc year, and am now an M1.

I can unequivocally say that I'm working harder now than I have at any time before. Taken page by page, there's nothing intrinsically difficult about med school. The anatomy classes are all about facts. Physiology, which we started about a week ago, can be boiled down to basic physics/chemistry/math. It's all very simple, really, but the problem is that everything just rushes toward you like the bulls at Pamplona. Being a good medical student has more to do with being efficient with your study time and knowing when to say when. Whereas you could realistically be "done" studying for, say, your gen chem final, it's probably impossible to be "done" studying for any topic in med school. If you're done reading over the notes and syllabus, for example, there's always the book (might as well open it once).

If your goal is to perform respectably well during your pre-clinical years, you won't have much of a problem by spending around four hours per night during the week. If you intend to be closer to the top, you will have to work exponentially harder to slip higher in the ranks. Except for classes where some people have prior knowledge (ie biochem), the only thing that separates the top from the middle of the pack is time.

Speaking of time, my main "handicaps" are my commute and my family. Most of my friends can walk home in minutes, grab something to eat, and either stay at home or walk back to the library to study. I've got 45 minutes to an hour of driving, followed by play time, family dinner time, and bed time, after which I can pull my stuff together and start to study. As a result, my four hours of work keep me up at night, and I always go to bed wishing I had a few more hours of non-drowsy time. When exams loom near, things start to get ugly.

I have to say that I've disappointed myself somewhat in my performance this year. I'm not a gunner, but I don't beleive I'm working up to my full academic potential. Then again, as long as I'm meeting the school's requirements, it's pretty nice to know that my baby still knows who I am. I barely spend two hours with her per day as it is.
 
blee said:
I have to say that I've disappointed myself somewhat in my performance this year. I'm not a gunner, but I don't beleive I'm working up to my full academic potential. Then again, as long as I'm meeting the school's requirements, it's pretty nice to know that my baby still knows who I am. I barely spend two hours with her per day as it is.
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Yeah, I've disapointed myself too. I'm pretty sure that I'm capable of doing better, but have a hard time keeping myself motivated.
I'm also dissapointed in my parenting and my attitude toward my children. I feel guilty during the day that they're in daycare when I'm either studying at home or even being lazy because of my lack of motivation. Then I'm irritated with them in the evening for various reasons.... then I feel guilty at night once they're asleep because of how I've behaved and they're just so sweet when they sleep.
Like right now, the weekend before a big exam, my husband took my kids to his parents house for the weekend so I can get a lot done. And what am I doing? Well, first I went to the store, then I put a movie in and now I'm on SDN.
 
LAW2DOC
As I said the traditionals, meaning 19-22 yr old apps. I do understand many have worked significant jobs-part of why I am far behind. And most nontrads-not all have done the same.

I really like what has been posted from current med students. Thanks for the insight.
 
I wish those folks posting about "working" and medical school and family would read this thread...It is not that easy to have time all over the place to do everything you want...
 
You just can't have it all. If you're hellbent on becoming the most accomplished physician in your field, you might succeed; you'll never know until you try. At the same time, though, realize that you can't also be the world's best parent/spouse. On the other hand, if you're absolutely committed to being the breadwinner and spending as much time with your family or outside interests that they deserve, you should not expect to be an academic standout. The balancing point between these extremes depends on the individual. And it's hard to find that balance, and it changes quite often.
 
blee said:
On the other hand, if you're absolutely committed to being the breadwinner and spending as much time with your family or outside interests that they deserve, you should not expect to be an academic standout.
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I would go further and suggest that there's a high risk that you could be an academic washout. Many (if not most) people would not be able ot work, have a family and still pass med school courses. While it's tough to fail out altogether, some non-insignificant number of people end up retaking things like anatomy each year.
 
Law2Doc said:
I would go further and suggest that there's a high risk that you could be an academic washout. Many (if not most) people would not be able ot work, have a family and still pass med school courses. While it's tough to fail out altogether, some non-insignificant number of people end up retaking things like anatomy each year.
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Agreed.


However, if I recall correctly, at my school about 2-7% washout (ie fail) of med school [this includes people failing the STEP1/Step2 exam). So, I agree, but think the statistic for failing out is higher than people recognize.


Wook
 
wook said:
Agreed.


However, if I recall correctly, at my school about 2-7% washout (ie fail) of med school [this includes people failing the STEP1/Step2 exam). So, I agree, but think the statistic for failing out is higher than people recognize.


Wook
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I don't know how many fail out, but I'm pretty sure quite a few of my classmates are going to have to retake this year. We started a new curriculum and they haven't decided on the details of "remediation" but are forced to at this point in time because it is apparent that we need it.:scared:
 
There is a non-insignificant number of first year repeaters at many med schools. My class has a handful of them, and I'm afraid that there are a few in my class who will probably not promote with us next year.

Mind you, I doubt that they all had jobs outside of school or anything, and I'd be willing to bet that non-trads generally have a lower rate of attrition than regular students. It's just important to remember that although all med students are capable of doing the work, not all will manage to do it for various reasons.
 
wook said:
Agreed.


However, if I recall correctly, at my school about 2-7% washout (ie fail) of med school [this includes people failing the STEP1/Step2 exam). So, I agree, but think the statistic for failing out is higher than people recognize.


Wook
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About 1.5% of all people fail out of allo med school nationally (according to a recent student organization magazine). But a whole lot more than that fail a course. More than the 7% you mentioned at many schools. Med schools generally give you many chances to make it through and so some people have to retake things over the summer, and others have to redo the whole year. (And then of course folks who fail Step 1 often have to rearrange rotations). It happens. You cannot count on coasting.
I do not have any idea what percent of the folks who struggled had jobs or outside obligations, or whether they were trad or nontrad. But I don't think anyone ought to assume they will sail right through until they get a few tests into the mix.
 
Law2Doc said:
About 1.5% of all people fail out of allo med school nationally (according to a recent student organization magazine). But a whole lot more than that fail a course. More than the 7% you mentioned at many schools. Med schools generally give you many chances to make it through and so some people have to retake things over the summer, and others have to redo the whole year. (And then of course folks who fail Step 1 often have to rearrange rotations). It happens. You cannot count on coasting.
I do not have any idea what percent of the folks who struggled had jobs or outside obligations, or whether they were trad or nontrad. But I don't think anyone ought to assume they will sail right through until they get a few tests into the mix.
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I'm not sure if even getting a few tests into the mix is enough info to know that you can handle a job. After three exams I thought that I could handle a job that was very part time. I sent out a resume before the block that I'm currently in and after putting in 4 weeks of this block, I'm quite certain there is no chance of me finding enough time to work. I'm suspicious that this current block is how things will continue from here on and my first three blocks were a bit of a warm up.
 
noelleruckman said:
I'm not sure if even getting a few tests into the mix is enough info to know that you can handle a job. After three exams I thought that I could handle a job that was very part time. I sent out a resume before the block that I'm currently in and after putting in 4 weeks of this block, I'm quite certain there is no chance of me finding enough time to work. I'm suspicious that this current block is how things will continue from here on and my first three blocks were a bit of a warm up.
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Fair enough -- I agree the workload gets heavier as you go along, although some people get more efficient about what things they are going to focus on. I was just saying that before you have any taste of med school, you have to assume you will be swamped 24/7 and need to put in maximum effort. Once you see what's what, you can modify your time/life accordingly.
 
Yup, and there is more to absorb second year than first...although second year is more clinicaly relevant IMHO. The best assumption is that you will not be able to work period. If for some reason you find yourself coasting in medical school then by all means get a job. Trying to explain this to pre-meds is kind of pointless, there is just no way they can understand just *how* much work it is until they get there.
 
I have been teaching an MCAT class once a week while an M1, but I've taught these classes so many times that it's not like I'm prepping the material totally from scratch even though Kaplan revamped the course considerably for the CBT. The amount of time I spend actually teaching is only three hours per week, though. I don't know of any of my classmates who work besides me, and my working is seriously scaled back compared to what I used to do. In grad school I'd frequently teach two or even three times per week.

I agree that it's best to assume that you can't work in med school. You can always start working later if you find that you have the time and energy.
 
I personally do not plan on working at all during med school. My wife has taken the last 4 years off to raise our two daughters. By the time I am an MS1 my wife will be able to work while they are in school. That will be the extent of the supplementing. I am sure there are those individuals out there that can work a few hours a week and be at the top but for the rest it takes serious time commitment to be a doc. Some relationships fail, for many reasons, but I think if you are both, or all, committed and have created a healthy relationship the time away will be fine...going Dr. Phil-sorry.
 
I haven't seen a post yet(although it might be out there) about which is harder between going to school taking your degree courses/sciences full-time or even a full-load versus working a full-time job and taking at least 2 courses a semester over a longer period of time. I would love to hear the traditional 18-22 y/o college student say they have it tougher. They have no idea. I personally think these kids should have not just shadow-a-doc-4-hrs-a-day a-couple-days-a-week-for-a-few months experience (wow, that was one, long hyphenated phrase, ha) but real world work experience for at least a year or two in a medical field where they have to interact with patients, docs and other staff with a level of responsibility superceding what is gained by doing the previously stated or volunteering the bare minimum.
 
southpawcannon said:
I haven't seen a post yet(although it might be out there) about which is harder between going to school taking your degree courses/sciences full-time or even a full-load versus working a full-time job and taking at least 2 courses a semester over a longer period of time. I would love to hear the traditional 18-22 y/o college student say they have it tougher. They have no idea. I personally think these kids should have not just shadow-a-doc-4-hrs-a-day a-couple-days-a-week-for-a-few months experience (wow, that was one, long hyphenated phrase, ha) but real world work experience for at least a year or two in a medical field where they have to interact with patients, docs and other staff with a level of responsibility superceding what is gained by doing the previously stated or volunteering the bare minimum.
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Oh yeah, undergrad was a cinch incompared to the real world afterward. (Actually, I don't remember ever thinking undergrad was difficult) I remember getting out of college, getting a full time job and being so depressed about how mundane life had become. I got up, went to work, came home, messed around for a few hours, went to bed, just to repeat. I never had any fun... Then I had a kid and realized how easy and "free" life was before when I only worked. Then I got pregnant with another and, same thing, was amazed by my freedom before. And then I had a second and... same story. Now I'm in med school.... It just keeps getting harder and harder :p Next story... clinicals and residency :eek:
 
Well guys... I've worked pretty hard for the last three weeks for a Cardiopulmonary exam which KILLED me today. We'll just say that I nearly cried when I found out that I passed when I got my score afterwards. I was pretty certain that I'd have <50%. Anyway, so much for being in the top 25% of my class. :( I was until today. (Actually, I don't know how the rest of the class did yet)
 
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