How much is a $250k salary after taxes and malpractice?

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shindotp

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I was thinking 40% goes to taxes and 20% for mal practice (varies by specialty, so I'm talking about "average"), leaving someone with $100k after taxes/mal practice.

That's about the same as $167k without mal practice.

Anyone want to correct me?

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Malpractice premiums vary a ton. Really high for ob/gyn neurosurgery, for instance, but not really sure it is best estimated as a percentage of gross income...better to get some examples for different specialties and deduct accordingly.

It also varies greatly by state. Texas has malpractice caps and is a lower premium state, for instance.
 
you should be asking how much is a 250K salaray after the obama plan takes effect.
 
So are the salaries listed on sites like salary.com and mdsalaries.blogspot pre-insurance or post-insurance?
 
There will be no such thing as a 250,000 dollar salary once Obama's plan gets into full swing :D
 
Luckily I won't be a doctor for another 11 years. Anyway, back to the topic?
 
Enough, we get it already. You don't like Obama.

:beat::beat::beat:

I like obama more than bush. I just dont agree with his policy. This is a discussion about salary and taxes buddy, things which will be seriously affected by the coming healthcare and federal reform.

Whether you like it or not, these things are gonna affect you as a doctor.

If you dont care/consider these issues before deciding on a career in medicine your just plain foolish
 
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So are the salaries listed on sites like salary.com and mdsalaries.blogspot pre-insurance or post-insurance?

salaries posted by recruiting firms are usually inflated anyway and now a good measure of what you will make.
 
Well I just want to know... Are the salaries posted pre-insurance or post?! Anyone know??
 
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salaries posted by recruiting firms are usually inflated anyway and now a good measure of what you will make.

You mean "not" a good measure? What do you mean by recruiting firms?
 
You mean "not" a good measure? What do you mean by recruiting firms?
sorry yea. firms that match doctors with hospitals/practices that need said dr.

Also malpractice is different based on specialty and location.
 
I like obama more than bush. I just dont agree with his policy. This is a discussion about salary and taxes buddy, things which will be seriously affected by the coming healthcare and federal reform.

Whether you like it or not, these things are gonna affect you as a doctor.

If you dont care/consider these issues before deciding on a career in medicine your just plain foolish

I'll reword.

Enough, we get it already. If Obama gets his way no one will make any money as a doctor.
:beat::beat::beat:
 
I'll reword.

Enough, we get it already. If Obama gets his way no one will make any money as a doctor.
:beat::beat::beat:

maybe you do, but not everyone else does, this thread is proof of that. Its not just about money either, its about physicians generally getting the shaft.

If i gotta sacrfice my 20's, go 250k into debt work 60+ hours a week and be under the constant threat of a lawsuit id like to be compensated. If not take away my debt and give me serious tort reform and i'll work similar (i.e less ) hours like they do in other countries w/ socialized medicine.

does any of this bother u?
 
.......................
 
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A reality check -

Where is 250k from? Working in front office in a busy office, I see insurance only paying $70 to a Doc per visit and on the average there are like fifteen visits per doc taken by a doctor in a day.

Also, healthcare will be revamped in coming years by Democrats or Republicans. This will leave less dough for Docs, that is the end results of all these reforms ... corporations/hospitals take more money than Doctors.

I am missing something when big numbers are thrown like that.

Salaries vary by specialty. $250k is common for some of the specialties I'm interested in such as oncology and neurology.
 
maybe you do, but not everyone else does, this thread is proof of that. Its not just about money either, its about physicians generally getting the shaft.

If i gotta sacrfice my 20's, go 250k into debt work 60+ hours a week and be under the constant threat of a lawsuit id like to be compensated. If not take away my debt and give me serious tort reform and i'll work similar (i.e less ) hours like they do in other countries w/ socialized medicine.

does any of this bother u?

No, what bothers me is when threads are started to ask about how much you will have to pay a year in taxes and malpractice they all inevitably turn into.

Post 1: OMG!! no will make any money as a doctor
Post 2: ****ing Tom Daschle...Cookbook medicine
Post 3: Medicine is the dumbest career choice ever.

:beat::beat::beat:
 
Primary care doctors don't generally make 250k

A surgeon generally does. A general surgeon gets paid a few thousand bucks per patient, and just needs to net about $1000 per weekday, after overhead, to hit 250k a year.
 
No, what bothers me is when threads are started to ask about how much you will have to pay a year in taxes and malpractice they all inevitably turn into.

Post 1: OMG!! no will make any money as a doctor
Post 2: ****ing Tom Daschle...Cookbook medicine
Post 3: Medicine is the dumbest career choice ever.

:beat::beat::beat:

Awesome, dont care about the future of your profession, while you live in the world of puppy dogs and candy canes, i'll stay out here in the real world and try to give people all the information I can about questions they ask.
 
Primary care doctors don't generally make 250k

A surgeon generally does. A general surgeon gets paid a few thousand bucks per patient, and just needs to net about $1000 per weekday, after overhead, to hit 250k a year.

unless your in private practice your not gonna make this much money in GS
 
maybe you do, but not everyone else does, this thread is proof of that. Its not just about money either, its about physicians generally getting the shaft.

If i gotta sacrfice my 20's, go 250k into debt work 60+ hours a week and be under the constant threat of a lawsuit id like to be compensated. If not take away my debt and give me serious tort reform and i'll work similar (i.e less ) hours like they do in other countries w/ socialized medicine.

does any of this bother u?

This definitely bothers me. I like to believe that I'm an idealistic "pre-med" at heart, I choose to believe that Medicine is about "saving the world" and that all physician are devoted humanistic servants.

But come on, where do we draw the line? 250K/year is minimal for the amount of sacrifice and commitment which physicians have to live with. I don't mind working strenuously and even though money was in no way the main deciding factor in my decision to go into Medicine, I do expect to be compensated well.

Who is knocking on the lawyer's or hedge fund runner's door?
 
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This definitely bothers me. I like to believe that I'm an idealistic "pre-med" at heart, I choose to believe that Medicine is about "saving the world" and that all physician are devoted humanistic servants.

But come on, where do we draw the line? 250K/year is minimal for the amount of sacrifice and commitment which physicians have to live with. I don't mind working strenuously and even though money was in no way the main deciding factor in my decision to go into Medicine, I do expect to be compensated well.

Who is knocking on the lawyer's or hedge fund runner's door?
:thumbup:
I absolutely agree

It seems like everyone is so liberal nowadays that the only real justification of going into medicine for the "right" reason is if you're willing to take a large paycut. Insurance companies make plenty, think about how much they charge and how frequent the average individual actually visits a physician.

The grind to get through undergrad, med school, and various specialty trainings should justify the salaries doctors make.

Most of the people argue about physician salaries because they're not physicians themselves, they just see someone get paid more and not understand the sacrifices and hard work it took to get there.
 
:thumbup:
I absolutely agree

It seems like everyone is so liberal nowadays that the only real justification of going into medicine for the "right" reason is if you're willing to take a large paycut. Insurance companies make plenty, think about how much they charge and how frequent the average individual actually visits a physician.

The grind to get through undergrad, med school, and various specialty trainings should justify the salaries doctors make.

Most of the people argue about physician salaries because they're not physicians themselves, they just see someone get paid more and not understand the sacrifices and hard work it took to get there.

Exactly, I think medicine is a great job, and as the future of medicine its our job to try and keep it that way.
 
I don't know why people think that Obama is going to be able to implement a socialized health care system.

We can't afford it right now. The economy is not going to be back anytime soon, and our country is in debt out the butt. Health care reform is a while down the road.

By the time they do intend on reforming the health care system, hopefully those with legislative power will see that every country that currently has a socialized health care system is now trying to move back to a private system.
 
This is just my opinion, but, why are you so concerned about what you'll be making? I don't want to be a doctor because they make more money than whatever else I'd be doing. If you're a doctor, you will have a good salary that you can live off of comfortably, with or without a family. That's the bottom line.

Apologies to the OP for what the thread became.
 
This is just my opinion, but, why are you so concerned about what you'll be making? I don't want to be a doctor because they make more money than whatever else I'd be doing. If you're a doctor, you will have a good salary that you can live off of comfortably, with or without a family. That's the bottom line.

Apologies to the OP for what the thread became.

Can you honestly say that money played absolutely no part in your decision to go into medicine?

The fact that you think you will make good money as a doctor say it did.

I agree if its the sole reason you chose medicine its a stupid idea, but should it be a consideration, absolutely. If you dont consider every aspect on a such an arduous and long journey, ur an idiot.

When your 200k in debt, and have to hire lawyers to defend you against whatever inevitable law suit comes your way, you will care what your salary is.

Are you gonna be ok with working twice as much as somebody else and earning just a little bit more than them?

Like i said before, If im not gonna make as much money im ok with it if I dont have ridiculous amounts of debt, mapractice and hours (just like all the other socialized countries).

Also these issues affect salary which is what the OP wanted to know about and Ive been trying to answer his questions to the best of my abilities.
 
Can you honestly say that money played absolutely no part in your decision to go into medicine?

The fact that you think you will make good money as a doctor say it did.

I agree if its the sole reason you chose medicine its a stupid idea, but should it be a consideration, absolutely. If you dont consider every aspect on a such an arduous and long journey, ur an idiot.

When your 200k in debt, and have to hire lawyers to defend you against whatever inevitable law suit comes your way, you will care what your salary is.

Are you gonna be ok with working twice as much as somebody else and earning just a little bit more than them?

Like i said before, If im not gonna make as much money im ok with it if I dont have ridiculous amounts of debt, mapractice and hours (just like all the other socialized countries).

Also these issues affect salary which is what the OP wanted to know about and Ive been trying to answer his questions to the best of my abilities.
I can honestly say that it had no impact on my decision. If I were interested in farming, that's what I would have done. Doctors make money. Do they make more than the average guy working at Wendy's? Yes. Do you often hear about doctors going into debt because they don't make enough money and can't pay their bills? No. Medicine is work. It is one of the most physically and emotionally taxing professions there are. If you aren't prepared to work harder than the average person who might be making near your salary, then don't go into medicine. My roommate is a total d-bag business major. He's going to have a much easier time both in school and professionally and he may even end up making more than me, which is fine. I plan to go through the suffering because I love the field, not the paycheck.
 
Well I just want to know... Are the salaries posted pre-insurance or post?! Anyone know??

They are post insurance. The figures you see, even if inflated, represent gross income after all work related expense are removed.

Furthermore, for anyone who is interested in how a reversion to a top marginal tax rate of 39.6% compares historically, here are the top marginal rates from 1913 to 2003.

Two highlights:

Top rate of 50% for six of Reagan's eight years in office (the income cutoff ranged from $85,600 to $175,250).

From 1951 to 1963 the top rate was 91-92% on income over $400,000.

Now just try to wrap your fresh little 18-22 year old brains around that.
 
They are post insurance. The figures you see, even if inflated, represent gross income after all work related expense are removed.

Furthermore, for anyone who is interested in how a reversion to a top marginal tax rate of 39.6% compares historically, here are the top marginal rates from 1913 to 2003.

Two highlights:

Top rate of 50% for six of Reagan's eight years in office (the income cutoff ranged from $85,600 to $175,250).

From 1951 to 1963 the top rate was 91-92% on income over $400,000.

Now just try to wrap your fresh little 18-22 year old brains around that.

It's based on a bracket system...

Not that I support those rates. They were removed for a reason.
 
Yeah I am going to be totally honest. While money played very little role for me becoming interested in medicine as a career, I have to say that now that I am looking at $200,000 to $300,000 in debt (before interest) and realize how many hours I am going to be working every week not to mention 12+ years of education post-HS... I really feel like I need to be earning at least $250k every year for this whole process to be worth it. Many physicians are forced to "delay" their lives until they are in their early 30s before getting married and having children. It would just be nice to know that it will all be worth it. I know many of you won't admit it, but if a physician was paid $65,000 per year and still had to go through all the training and years of school, you would not be interested in it...it would not make financial sense.

One of the smallest costs of running a hospital is the physicians salary. There are many more things that a hospital could EASILY do to cut costs. For instance I visited a town with only 2 hospitals and both hospitals had the equipment and tools to perform robotic surgery I asked the hospital director how often the piece of equipment is used and he said he would be surprised if it is being used 20% of available hours. He said their hospital was pretty much forced to buy the equipment because otherwise they would be viewed as the "worse" hospital and would begin losing patients. I think what we need is for hospitals to begin working together and purchasing the most expensive equipment together (that they rarely use) because he said that just that one piece of equipment alone cost something like $10 million (he said that was one of a few pieces of equipment like that in his hospital) If the hospital were to share, it would buy 50 physicans at $200,000 per year. (I know there are more costs than just a physicians salary when you hire a physician...but at least 15-20 more physicians)
 
I can honestly say that it had no impact on my decision. If I were interested in farming, that's what I would have done. Doctors make money. Do they make more than the average guy working at Wendy's? Yes. Do you often hear about doctors going into debt because they don't make enough money and can't pay their bills? No. Medicine is work. It is one of the most physically and emotionally taxing professions there are. If you aren't prepared to work harder than the average person who might be making near your salary, then don't go into medicine. My roommate is a total d-bag business major. He's going to have a much easier time both in school and professionally and he may even end up making more than me, which is fine. I plan to go through the suffering because I love the field, not the paycheck.

Your attitude is the why the profession gets stomped all over by other groups.
 
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I can honestly say that it had no impact on my decision. If I were interested in farming, that's what I would have done. Doctors make money. Do they make more than the average guy working at Wendy's? Yes. Do you often hear about doctors going into debt because they don't make enough money and can't pay their bills? No. Medicine is work. It is one of the most physically and emotionally taxing professions there are. If you aren't prepared to work harder than the average person who might be making near your salary, then don't go into medicine. My roommate is a total d-bag business major. He's going to have a much easier time both in school and professionally and he may even end up making more than me, which is fine. I plan to go through the suffering because I love the field, not the paycheck.
This is a very foolish opinion. Without the money, a job is nothing. I will not work for free. I will always be a family man first and a doctor second. I mean, there must be SOME financial consideration for your decisions!

Let me ask you a question: if doctors salaries were capped at $100,000 and medical school tuition was raised to $500,000 would you still pursue medicine? There must be a financial line SOMEWHERE!

Edit: let me give you a little perspective. After spending four years in college, four years in medical school, and 3 years in residency making $12/hour, a family practice doctor currently works 50-60 hours per week and pays 53% of his after-taxes income on student loan repayments (which lasts an additional 10 years). Assuming that doctor started med school right after college, he won't be able to enjoy a majority of his take-home income until he is 40 years old. By this point, most professionals have a sizable nest egg socked away. This physician, at age 40, is really just getting started. My point is that there MUST be a financial component in your decision to pursue a particular career. Someday when you want to get married and have a family, the financial aspect is going to make a huge difference.
 
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They are post insurance. The figures you see, even if inflated, represent gross income after all work related expense are removed.

Furthermore, for anyone who is interested in how a reversion to a top marginal tax rate of 39.6% compares historically, here are the top marginal rates from 1913 to 2003.

Two highlights:

Top rate of 50% for six of Reagan's eight years in office (the income cutoff ranged from $85,600 to $175,250).

From 1951 to 1963 the top rate was 91-92% on income over $400,000.

Now just try to wrap your fresh little 18-22 year old brains around that.
That's amazing. I didn't know that taxes used to be as high as 94%!! That's nuts. I'm a democrat, but I'd never support such rates. Ironically, it was Kennedy who first lowered those 90% taxes. One of the things that worries me now is that I used to think that we got out of the Depression because of war spending. Well, seeing those taxes now I am wondering if in fact it was the high tax rate that got us out. It lasted for a very long time after the Depression. I think that the previous generation has dug such a deep hole for us who are coming next that we are going to to be faced with enormous debts for most of our lives, unless something changes. Frankly, the only fair solution is to significantly increase the taxes now and let all those rich republicans who put the bright spark in the office pay for his mistakes. Over 50% of the country is guilty, rich or Kentucky-fried poor. Pretty upsetting.
 
Just so you know : nobody wealthy actually paid those ridiculous rates. Back in the day, there were a lot more tax shelters and ways to game the tax code that were effective.
 
Who cares about all this debate about pre-insurance or post insurance, obama plan, whatever? Doctors are still one of the highest paid professionals, and that's all that matters to me. Case closed.
 
I can honestly say that it had no impact on my decision. If I were interested in farming, that's what I would have done. Doctors make money. Do they make more than the average guy working at Wendy's? Yes. Do you often hear about doctors going into debt because they don't make enough money and can't pay their bills? No. Medicine is work. It is one of the most physically and emotionally taxing professions there are. If you aren't prepared to work harder than the average person who might be making near your salary, then don't go into medicine. My roommate is a total d-bag business major. He's going to have a much easier time both in school and professionally and he may even end up making more than me, which is fine. I plan to go through the suffering because I love the field, not the paycheck.


Not caring about money is not noble... It's economically counterproductive. I agree with the above posters - this type of attitude is what allows doctors to be stomped on.
 
The 90% tax was put in place to pay for the great depression, World War II and the Korean war.

Another thing: There will always be a demand for doctors in the US. There will always be a limited number of doctors in the US. Therefore you will always make a decent living as a doctor.


React to me!!!!!!
 
Who cares about all this debate about pre-insurance or post insurance, obama plan, whatever? Doctors are still one of the highest paid professionals, and that's all that matters to me. Case closed.

Who cares? Obviously we care, why else would we bring it up and discuss it? If you don't, get out of the thread and stop trying to close other people's cases.
 
In the end, I'd like to make 200k. I'll be realistic and possibly settle with 175k. I've given up, just gotta go with the flow I guess.
 
Frankly, the only fair solution is to significantly increase the taxes now and let all those rich republicans who put the bright spark in the office pay for his mistakes.

Somebody needs to take intro econ. See also: dependence of federal revenue on income tax rates.

The correct solution is to slash the hell out of spending. I'm looking at you, social security.
 
That's amazing. I didn't know that taxes used to be as high as 94%!! That's nuts. I'm a democrat, but I'd never support such rates. Ironically, it was Kennedy who first lowered those 90% taxes. One of the things that worries me now is that I used to think that we got out of the Depression because of war spending. Well, seeing those taxes now I am wondering if in fact it was the high tax rate that got us out. It lasted for a very long time after the Depression. I think that the previous generation has dug such a deep hole for us who are coming next that we are going to to be faced with enormous debts for most of our lives, unless something changes. Frankly, the only fair solution is to significantly increase the taxes now and let all those rich republicans who put the bright spark in the office pay for his mistakes. Over 50% of the country is guilty, rich or Kentucky-fried poor. Pretty upsetting.
Keep in mind that $400,000 back then is $2.9 million now. That tax rate is also the marginal tax rate, in other words, it is 94% on anything made over the $2.9 million.

Also, the respectable rich people are making their millions in investments. Warren Buffet pays less taxes than you do (sad but true). This is because the VAST majority of his income is in capital gains, which is a flat 15% rate. This is why the 94% tax bracket didn't tank the economy.

The federal government will never be able to touch the really rich people's money. This is because, to do so, the government would have to significantly raise the capital gains tax. Bye bye economy if that happens.

That being said I am a staunch libertarian, with a deep set belief that the federal government has pissed all over the Constitution by even collecting income tax to begin with. (I mean, really, what RIGHT does the government have to tax someone's hard-earned income and then just piss it away?) So really my comments above were just my "non partisan" clarification of a commonly misconstrued historical fact. Yes, it was a sucky and unfair tax rate, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be.
 
That's amazing. I didn't know that taxes used to be as high as 94%!! That's nuts. I'm a democrat, but I'd never support such rates. Ironically, it was Kennedy who first lowered those 90% taxes. One of the things that worries me now is that I used to think that we got out of the Depression because of war spending. Well, seeing those taxes now I am wondering if in fact it was the high tax rate that got us out. It lasted for a very long time after the Depression. I think that the previous generation has dug such a deep hole for us who are coming next that we are going to to be faced with enormous debts for most of our lives, unless something changes. Frankly, the only fair solution is to significantly increase the taxes now and let all those rich republicans who put the bright spark in the office pay for his mistakes. Over 50% of the country is guilty, rich or Kentucky-fried poor. Pretty upsetting.

yep,

interesting what populism tends to do ... tax the rich because they have all the money! Sounds good until you consider what you personally would do if taxed @ 92% of your salary -- say you're an ER doc making another 1200 for that saturday shift..and after tax you end up with 8% of that, a whopping $96, less $20 for gas to and from work.. at that point would you not do better staying home and doing yard work rather than pay the service $100 to do it? That's a big chunk of the cost of taxes -- they discourage people like the ER doc from doing more productive work because there's such a huge gap between the value of the work and the compensation for that effort.

When taxes are raised, Washington uses a static model -- it assumes there won't be a change in behavior as a result of the increase in taxes. Unfortunately, in the real world there will always be some change in behavior -- anytime taxes go up or down, there will always be a part time worker who quits to watch the kids, or a home-maker who gets a part time position because it's more fulfilling.

If you could be a full time doc making 150K takehome or a part time doc taking home 100K and spending time helping your community, getting to know your kids, etc.. I suspect we're going to have more part timers as the tax rates go up.
 
That being said I am a staunch libertarian, with a deep set belief that the federal government has pissed all over the Constitution by even collecting income tax to begin with. (I mean, really, what RIGHT does the government have to tax someone's hard-earned income and then just piss it away?)

No right. No right at all. Welcome, (little l) libertarian comrade. :thumbup:
 
Who cares about all this debate about pre-insurance or post insurance, obama plan, whatever? Doctors are still one of the highest paid professionals, and that's all that matters to me. Case closed.

There are many groups who are trying to change that, i suggest your educate yourself about it.

The 90% tax was put in place to pay for the great depression, World War II and the Korean war.

Another thing: There will always be a demand for doctors in the US. There will always be a limited number of doctors in the US. Therefore you will always make a decent living as a doctor.


React to me!!!!!!
gladly,

The healthcare industry is NOT bulletproof. While there might be more job security than the financial district, hospitals are laying people off, cutting hours and lowering pay as well.
 
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