How much money do you make and transparent salary/job offer thread?

[borne_before]

I'm hoping to make a thread that is about transparent salary information. A place where we can talk money and share information candidly.

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[WisNeuro]

My last institutional salary was ~120k with full benefits and such. My income now is more variable, depending on the IME/clinical mix, but quite a bit higher.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Similar response to WisNeuro above, but with my last salaried position being at ~110k. Private practice has been a good bit higher, otherwise I wouldn't have left.

Edit for context and training info: relatively small city and low COA, but not dirt cheap.

Internship: I think it was mid-20's
Fellowship: Mid-40's first year and upper-40's second year, give or take

 

[borne_before]

Here is some of my own data (i'm in a western state that used to be really low cost of living, but now housing has like doubled):

• internship: $23,500
• postdoc: $33,000
• First job at a multispeciality outpatient pediatric psych clinic: 97500
• Second job at developmental pediatrician outfit: 120,000 start up for three months to a private pay split 50% (left after two months).
• Back to first job at same clinic: $100,500 with 280 hour PTO, 40 PST, 40 CME, pretty cheap and good insurance.

 

[Shiori]

As a postdoc in a VA, I get about 45,000.

 

[Westbound2019]

Here are neuropsych salaries I've seen recently:

Southern AMC: starting between $108-113k
Larger Western city Community mental health: $90k starting
Private practice larger city in West: $110- $120 starting

 

[neurotic_cow]

All within the context of large healthcare (non-VA) organizations/outpatient hospital settings on East Coast, non-city:
Internship: $25,000
Postdoc: $50,000
Outpatient neuropsych: starting $110,000 + 10% bonus if productivity requirements are met

 

[Dr_Bee]

Firstly - I'm so glad you started this thread. It is a big frustration of mine, that most psychologist position postings are not more transparent. All my paid experience has been in VA which of course is public, but:
Internship: $26,000
Postdoc: $46,000
Starting Salary as GS 12: $80,000

 

[Gepetto]

I would love to hear from anyone in private practice re: salary, too. People always seem the most guarded about this?

I know it varies significantly, but some sort of range would be helpful!

I'm in PP part time (very part time.. I take maybe a week off each month and only see patients a couple days a week beyond that-- private pay and insurance, no forensic work) and on track to take home around $60-70k after taxes/expenses for my first year.

 

[R. Matey]

Base Pay:
Internship: $32,000
Clinical Postdoc: $58,000
NIH postdoc: ~$55,000

I've also had side consulting gigs since internship that have brought in ~$3-5k reported primarily as 1099-NECs for those of you who care about taxes. I'm getting a part-time PP off the ground now so I'll report back how that goes.

 

[calimich]

Internship: ~35k
Postdoc: ~60k
Initial faculty salary:~75k
Current:~90k

1.5day/week pp: ~35k mostly insurance-based

 

[BuckeyeLove]

internship 26.5
postdoc 50
Initial starting staff psych inpatient 70
current 110 (with the best benefits imaginable, probably enough to keep me here forever if I'm lucky)
private rate 250/hr (this is average for my area)

 

[WisNeuro]

I would love to hear from anyone in private practice re: salary, too. People always seem the most guarded about this?

I know it varies significantly, but some sort of range would be helpful!

I'm in PP part time (very part time.. I take maybe a week off each month and only see patients a couple days a week beyond that-- private pay and insurance, no forensic work) and on track to take home around $60-70k after taxes/expenses for my first year.

Not sure about guarded, as opposed to variable. Depends on how much you work, what mix of work you do, clinical vs. IME, etc. My months vary quite a bit. For example, in the last year, I can have a month where I bill as low as 8k, or up to about 45k.

 

[ClinicalABA]

Base 100k, with bonuses (personalm productivity and overall agency performance) minimum of 20k, but usually ~30k. I have lower productivity requirements than colleagues because I teach in affiliated graduate program, where I get 5k per class, and typically teach 5 hybrid classes per year. All licenses/certifications paid for (~1k per year for my 3 licenses and one board certification). Regional conference fees paid for. National conference (ABAI) annual membership, registration, air and hotel, plus daily expenditures paid for. $625 per quarter student loan reimbursement. Peer-reviewed publication bonus 2k-5k depending on journal. CEUs paid for (with many offered by internal agency trainings). 401k contributions (non matching- just given to me) based on agency performance. Typical benefit package (group health/life/dental/vision with typical employee contribution). Mileage reimbursement. All testing materials, protocols, etc provided by company. Company provides scheduling, billing, and credentialing.

 

[earnadegree123]

Internship: $30k
Nonclinical Postdoc: $45k
Health Psych Clinical Postdoc: $62k
The rest: TBD

@BuckeyeLove, so curious as to what "the best benefits imaginable" are?

 

[BuckeyeLove]

"the best benefits imaginable" are?

All the basic stuff (great health, life, pension, vacation/sick/personal time, union protection) but also i can generally come and go as i please and don't have a set schedule, and I am technically not allowed to work more than 40hrs/week. No productivity requirements. So once I get my work done, all the rest of the time is mine to do PP report writing.

 

[borne_before]

All the basic stuff (great health, life, pension, vacation/sick/personal time, union protection) but also i can generally come and go as i please and don't have a set schedule, and I am technically not allowed to work more than 40hrs/week. No productivity requirements. So once I get my work done, all the rest of the time is mine to do PP report writing.

Do your kids get any tuition bennies for being a teacher?

 

[duane1]

Clinical and Prescribing Psychologist - Private Practice, no benefits
35 hours/week clinical work (psychological testing, a little psychotherapy, medication management)

Internship: 18, 000$
Fellowship: 60,000$
Last job (V.A. Medical Center) 87,000$
Current Job: 475,000$

 

[molofish]

Working currently in a northeastern city as a researcher for a mental health tech company, as well as part-time group PP neuropsych on the side (about 15-20 hours per week). Also do some consulting (varies, but averages 4-5 hours per week).

Internship: $29k
Postdoc: $53k
First job(s) out of postdoc (and currently): $120k from tech job + 60k from PP + 10k from consulting= 190k total

 

[earnadegree123]

Clinical and Prescribing Psychologist - Private Practice, no benefits
35 hours/week clinical work (psychological testing, a little psychotherapy, medication management)

Internship: 18, 000$
Fellowship: 60,000$
Last job (V.A. Medical Center) 87,000$
Current Job: 475,000$

Oh my... Is that number gross or net?

 

[duane1]

Oh my... Is that number gross or net?

all are gross

 

[hum1]

North East Coast:
Postdoc 40K
Current licensed job as a psychotherapist in a private group clinic: $60 per session, which is roughly 80K or 90K a year.

 

[Sanman]

Internship : I think it was $25k
Post-doc job (unlicensed): ~50k
Licensed job: $85-105k
Current: Mid-level GS-13 at the VA ($110k-$130k range)

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Internship: $18.5k (2009) Solid benefits w VA
Fellowship: $40.5k/$41.5k Awesome benefits
R1 Assistant Prof: $90k split between in-pt / out-pt / mentoring fellows. Amazing benefits

After 5 years as an assistant prof I was $110k-ish in salary. Benefits were $$$ though.
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Private practice is a very different setup. I started with a group practice and was $110k-$125k/yr....it would have been $130k+ if I stuck around. I did a mix of neuropsych, pre-surg evals, and some therapy. Overhead was higher bc it was a mix of specialities, so it wasn't a great long-term option for me, but it allowed me to relocate and figure out my next steps.

Now I run my own boutique practice, a mix of clinical, legal, and consultation work. Starting my PP during the pandemic wasn't ideal, but I saved up enough to make it work. I pay myself enough to cover my bills, but purposefully limit my actual salary. Most weeks I work 25-35hr/wk, between F2F and running the business...but put in a lot more time in the first 6mon getting everything setup. I now have a billing company, payroll company, accountant, part-time admin, part-time counselor, and part-time psych-tech. I had to go through multiple billing companies because neuropsych billing is pretty particular and 2 payroll companies. There was a lot of uncompensated time in the beginning, but going into year two it's a lot more manageable as long as I do a few hours each week.

I've made a conscious choice to prioritize my health and limit my work hours, which required being picky about payor sources. I bill a mix of neuropsych and counseling codes, but these hours only work because I don't take commercial insurance or Medicare/Medicaid. Some weeks I only see a handful of appointments, while other weeks I see my clinical patients and I'm on deadline for 1 or more IMEs...and those hours are whatever they need to be to meet the deadline. I only take workers comp and legal referrals, so my hourly skews higher, but legal billing hours can be quite variable. That said, I make more than I did at any prior job....and I work less than half of the hours.

In the beginning, I had some months that were light bc I was spending a lot of my time on the business and/or had multiple cases settle. In the beginning I think I bill <$7k one month, but other months I billed $30k+. Last month I billed $30k+ for 2 wks of legal work, which is why I want to bring in more clinical work to balance things out. I haven't done any marketing bc of the legal referrals, but ideally I'll be 50/50 w. clinical v legal work. A lot of time in the first year or two should be spent on marketing and networking. I didn't do this because I wanted to focus on IME work because I know the clinical work will always be there for me. Other markets may not be like that, but for me...it has worked well.

 

[ExecutiveDysfunction]

Great thread.

Internship: 27
Post doc: 35
First big boy neuropsych job at an AMC: 90

It’s typical for the area to underpay (big city) but it was particularly bad when I started during the height of the pandemic. There was a lot less flexibility in budgets for the neurology department. It made sense for me to take the position - it was good for my family and in the region I grew up in. Benefits are reasonable. But now that I’ve been here a while, I plan to negotiate a higher salary or consider my options.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

but purposefully limit my actual salary

Is this one of those capital gains things? I remember my old mentor paid himself a salary of 50k a year (something that could seem reasonable) and did some tax logic stuff with the rest.

 

[Ollie123]

PostDoc - 42k
First Faculty Job (Pre-Licensure) - 87k
First Faculty Job (Post-Licensure) - ~105k
Current Faculty Job (~5 years out, still an assistant prof) - 135k + up to 30% bonus (based on grant funding, realistically I should hit around 20% this year).

All faculty positions are in low-mid COL regions so the salaries are pretty solid. Benefits at both faculty positions are very, very, very good.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Is this one of those capital gains things? I remember my old mentor paid himself a salary of 50k a year (something that could seem reasonable) and did some tax logic stuff with the rest.

I'm still learning about some of this, but yes, there are definitely reasons to limit paying yourself and instead leveraging other options in the business to shelter more of the $ from higher taxes.

 

[Sanman]

I'm still learning about some of this, but yes, there are definitely reasons to limit paying yourself and instead leveraging other options in the business to shelter more of the $ from higher taxes.

Past a certain income, w2 employment is pretty much the worst way to be paid with regard to taxes.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Is this one of those capital gains things? I remember my old mentor paid himself a salary of 50k a year (something that could seem reasonable) and did some tax logic stuff with the rest.

In short, basically yeah. Others are more knowledgeable than me, but at probably the most basic level, you pay capital gains rates and no self-employment/payroll taxes on distributions, which can save a substantial amount of money, depending.

 

[smalltownpsych]

First job as licensed psychologist: 80k with benefits
Second: 150k with benefits and 10k in educational funds that paid for trips to Cape Cod
Third: 130k with benefits and better location and a job I enjoyed more
Fourth: I think I'm paying myself 50k (business partner/spouse handles the payables and has always managed aka spent my paycheck), but am starting a group practice and we shall see what that does for me.

 

[Shiori]

This is easily one of the most helpful threads!

 

[WisNeuro]

Is this one of those capital gains things? I remember my old mentor paid himself a salary of 50k a year (something that could seem reasonable) and did some tax logic stuff with the rest.

There's more nuance, but when you own a business, there's your "reasonable" wage that you pay yourself, and then there's the dividends you pay out to the business owner (you) at the end of the year. How you do this depends on what you're bringing in, and a few other variables. This is where having a good tax person can come in handy. They'll help you maximize your net gain.

 

[beantownpsych]

Internship (AMC): 21K
Research Postdoc (AMC): whatever the NIH minimum was ~45K?
Assistant prof--primary research focus (AMC): 78K (start) - 96K (base, 4 years later) + 10-20K (research incentive based on PI award of full indirect grants), okay benefits
Associate prof -- res/clin/admin mix (AMC): 170K, much, much better benefits

 

[PSYCHEVAL3]

Internship - 17,500
Post doc - 30,000
1st job - 47,500
2nd job - 55,000
Private practice - 0 (first 6 months)
Private practice - 150,000 (first few years)
Private practice current - 350,000 (last 10 years)
A bad day = 1,000
Typical day - 2,000
A great day = 4,000

Clinical and Forensic Practice
Around 8 weeks of vacation a year.
Live on 35 percent of net, investing the rest.

 

[borne_before]

This is easily one of the most helpful threads!

You’re welcome 😉

 

[smalltownpsych]

North East Coast:
Postdoc 40K
Current licensed job as a psychotherapist in a private group clinic: $60 per session, which is roughly 80K or 90K a year.

That sounds like pretty low compensation per session especially if you are not getting benefits. I guess it depends on what the payer mix is and also how much demand is in the area and what your ability to generate business is, but why not open your own practice if they aren’t going to be generous with the split?

 

[smalltownpsych]

This is easily one of the most helpful threads!

It is interesting how much higher these numbers seem that what is available on the internet. Makes me wonder if the surveys of us who are self-employed really reflect what our business makes or just what we report as salaries?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

It is interesting how much higher these numbers seem that what is available on the internet. Makes me wonder if the surveys of us who are self-employed really reflect what our business makes or just what we report as salaries?

I can't remember exactly how it was worded, but I believe the neuropsych survey queries for total compensation rather than referring strictly to salary.

 

[Pragma]

Internship: 28K
Fellowship: 33K
First job: ~90k entry
Current (AMC): 140's with bonus proportional to exceeding RVU target

 

[PsyDr]

IIRC, my lowest year ever for psychology has been around $220k-250k net. My highest has been multiples of that.

The reason I am cagey about this stuff: I don’t want someone to plan on being an outlier.

 

[WisNeuro]

IIRC, my lowest year ever for psychology has been around $220k-250k net. My highest has been multiples of that.

The reason I am cagey about this stuff: I don’t want someone to plan on being an outlier.

"I know my school has a match rate in the 50% area, a terrible EPPP pass rate, and that I'll graduate with $300k+ in debt, but I just know that I'll be a therapist to movie stars, making 7 figures a year. YOLO!"

 

[R. Matey]

"I know my school has a match rate in the 50% area, a terrible EPPP pass rate, and that I'll graduate with $300k+ in debt, but I just know that I'll be a therapist to movie stars, making 7 figures a year. YOLO!"

I know you're joking, but I literally had someone say to me with a straight face that they fully understood that they were taking on an additional 100k in debt to make $70k a year.

 

[Sanman]

It is interesting how much higher these numbers seem that what is available on the internet. Makes me wonder if the surveys of us who are self-employed really reflect what our business makes or just what we report as salaries?

These numbers are also skewed. If we went by SDN polls, it would seem 50% of psychologists work in neuro/forensic/consulting. That said, I think the institutional salaries are helpful more than the PP stuff. I think if the numbers were updated for today, the average salary would be about $5-10k higher than the salary survey from 2015. On here, we lack a lot the lower paying settings/areas to bring the average down. For my area of work, I know that $80-85k is the average starting salary going up to low six figures. This is for thousands of folks working at multiple companies since it is a fairly standard offer. I think something in the $100-150k range is pretty good (higher end) for a salaried position in our field for an individual practitioner.

 

[PSYCHEVAL3]

These numbers are also skewed. If we went by SDN polls, it would seem 50% of psychologists work in neuro/forensic/consulting. That said, I think the institutional salaries are helpful more than the PP stuff. I think if the numbers were updated for today, the average salary would be about $5-10k higher than the salary survey from 2015. On here, we lack a lot the lower paying settings/areas to bring the average down. For my area of work, I know that $80-85k is the average starting salary going up to low six figures. This is for thousands of folks working at multiple companies since it is a fairly standard offer. I think something in the $100-150k range is pretty good (higher end) for a salaried position in our field for an individual practitioner.

Good points. I remember being on internship years ago and meeting psychologists who were working in university counseling centers who were happy with their career, but making 35 to 40k. But it seems institutional salary information alone only provides information on what people make in institutions. A decent percentage of psychologists are self employed and many start their education with that as the end goal. The challenge with private practice data is the large variability. But If I would have only looked at the US Debt of labor statistics on income of psychologists when I was 19, I never would have been a psychologist.

 

[Sanman]

Good points. I remember being on internship years ago and meeting psychologists who were working in university counseling centers who were happy with their career, but making 35 to 40k. But it seems institutional salary information alone only provides information on what people make in institutions. A decent percentage of psychologists are self employed and many start their education with that as the end goal. The challenge with private practice data is the large variability. But If I would have only looked at the US Debt of labor statistics on income of psychologists when I was 19, I never would have been a psychologist.

Fair point, I do think that private practice needs it's own survey and break down. Too much variability comes from the type of work and the size of the practice, as you alluded to in your post. That is rarely accounted for in these surveys. Going into a solo psychotherapy practice expecting to make the equivalent of someone in forensics or a person that runs a large multi-person practice is a fool's errand. I also doubt there will be as much honesty in such a survey. You don't want others to realize how much money is on the table. It only breeds competition and dissatisfaction among employees.

 

[forcefive17]

Internship (Military): 85K, healthcare (if you call Tricare healthcare), 30 days of leave/year + all federal holidays.
Postdoc (Military): 85K
Current (5 years in): 155K
Taxable base pay-75k; Taxable bonus- 40k/year (had to sign a contract for that); non-taxable pay-40k
Potential fellowship on the horizon: closer to 165K/year.

 

[counselor2b]

Not a psychologist but thought it might be helpful to add masters level data to the mix for comparison.

Location: Midwest

Internship: PP-Unpaid

3000 supervised hours with LPC-IT
First Year: $51,000- Inpatient State Hospital
Second Year: $57,000-EAP Counselor

Current:
EAP Counselor
First year fully licensed as LPC
$65,000-great benefits. No RVU requirements or minimum patient contact hours. Salary max is approximately $90,000.

 

[psycle708]

These numbers are also skewed. If we went by SDN polls, it would seem 50% of psychologists work in neuro/forensic/consulting. That said, I think the institutional salaries are helpful more than the PP stuff. I think if the numbers were updated for today, the average salary would be about $5-10k higher than the salary survey from 2015. On here, we lack a lot the lower paying settings/areas to bring the average down. For my area of work, I know that $80-85k is the average starting salary going up to low six figures. This is for thousands of folks working at multiple companies since it is a fairly standard offer. I think something in the $100-150k range is pretty good (higher end) for a salaried position in our field for an individual practitioner.

Such a good point, thank you! Do you mind sharing what your area of work is?

 

[singasongofjoy]

This thread is truly gold.
I'm not great at remembering past numbers, so they are approximate:

internship: ~25k

postdoc at state-funded AMC IDD-related outpatient clinic: ~48k

1st year licensed starting as assistant prof at same : 79k, good insurance, ok retirement, plenty of PTO (4 or 5 weeks, honestly I can't recall)

Currently same clinic, now in supervisory/director-ish role with easily reached RVUs (regularly go over, bonuses are peanuts though, maybe b/c see vast majority Medicaid? idk) and ideal variety in work but too much of it: 88-89k before taxes.

Recently started asking around in group and private practice. Could easily shift to a group practice and make at least $120k, much fewer responsibilities and hours (but no employer provided insurance), or a lateral move but working with different age range for $150. Very appealing on my most burnt-out days- but I like variety and the niche I've worked myself into; the group practices sound like I'd need to generalize back out quite a bit.

I know folks in PP who clear $120 net in my area (maybe more) doing work in this area. Considered PP for a bit but after talking to folks in this area who have, I very much do not think that I have the executive functioning skills for that. I've got functional checks and systems in place now. Honestly if it weren't for the EF piece, I would be extremely likely to go into PP. But talked with a colleague who also is a woman with ADHD and ventured into PP and cleared $30 the first year; she said the non-clinical part was very problematic. She is now in a group practice making $120k and working far fewer hours.

This thread might push me over the edge to make some sort of shift in the end though. idk.