How often do people pick DO acceptance over MD?

[ponybreeder4]

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If you have a DO acceptance at a really desirable school is a great location, and MD offer in a random place you dont like, would anyone pick DO?
I want to pursue primary care so would it really make a difference for me if im DO or MD?
Also, does it make sense to attend a lower ranked MD school if theres less classroom time and you wont have to work as hard?

 

[PressPforPi]

So far I've learned that there is no difference between a MD or a DO school, except that MD residencies are a little more competitive for a DO to get into. Next, you should consider the costs of the schools. Schools that are in your state will obviously be cheaper, unless it's a private institution. Finally, it depends on where you're most comfortable with, where you feel like you're most likely to succeed. Personally, I would never pick an MD school that I despise over a DO school that I loved (unless the MD school was significantly cheaper) Hope this helps.

 

[Hah]

General replies you're going to get other than the whole "Oh look another DO/MD thread, Troll, In before..." replies are:

1) Everyone is different. Depends on the person and what they want.

2) No.

3) You will have to work hard at any school if you want to be a doctor.

 

[the duck]

If you're going into primary care it doesn't matter in the least!

 

[dbeast]

Wait for it...

 

[SFO-IST]

Wait for it...

Here it is:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=10116917#post10116917

 

[Catalystik]

1) If you have a DO acceptance at a really desirable school is a great location, and MD offer in a random place you dont like, would anyone pick DO?
2) I want to pursue primary care so would it really make a difference for me if im DO or MD?
3)Also, does it make sense to attend a lower ranked MD school if theres less classroom time and you wont have to work as hard?

1) I've seen a number of SDN posts from folks who preferred to attend a DO school based on its location over MD.

2) No.

3) Don't believe for a second that you won't work equally hard wherever you go. Regardless of face time in a lecture hall, you still have to learn the material on your own. That said, it is much less stressful to attend a school with a P/F grading system or one that doesn't require class attendance.

 

[patel2]

If you have a DO acceptance at a really desirable school is a great location, and MD offer in a random place you dont like, would anyone pick DO?
I want to pursue primary care so would it really make a difference for me if im DO or MD?
Also, does it make sense to attend a lower ranked MD school if theres less classroom time and you wont have to work as hard?

1. Probably I would still pick the MD school. Thing is that most DO schools aren't in desirable locations at all...they are in places like iowa, maine, the midwest, in rural or suburban places (with some exceptions like Nova right outside miami/ft. lauderdale). If there were DO schools in nyc (in manhattan), boston, or DC then I'd strongly consider going to one over a rural MD school...so being accepted to a DO school in a great location is rarely an issue you will deal with (unless by great you just mean close to family/friends).

2. No it doesn't matter for primary care but how do you know 100% you want to do primary care?

3. Yes, avoid mandatory attendance schools like the plague if you have the option. I can't imagine being forced to sit in a class from 9-5 5 days a week. That being said, you won't be working any less harder at a school without required attendance, but will just be more efficient and have more free time. Many, if not most DO schools, require mandatory attendance while almost no MD schools do.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Here it is:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=10116917#post10116917

That thread was awesome, remember it well.

OP - you will go DO if you want to or not.

 

[Mbeas]

3. Yes, avoid mandatory attendance schools like the plague if you have the option. I can't imagine being forced to sit in a class from 9-5 5 days a week. That being said, you won't be working any less harder at a school without required attendance, but will just be more efficient and have more free time. Many, if not most DO schools, require mandatory attendance while almost no MD schools do.

😕

you won't be in class THAT much

 

[uclaussr]

actually i interviewed at a school that is from 9-5 4 days a week and 9-12 on fridays. so it definetely happens at some places.

 

[TexasPhysician]

You say you want to go primary care now, but you probably haven't had the med school experience of so many different specialties yet. Unless the DO school is significantly cheaper, I would go the MD route (give the option) just to keep your options a little more open.

 

[TexasPhysician]

FYI: I chose a field that I never thought I would love to do.

100% sure I would do emergency medicine when I entered.

 

[wanderer]

Lol @ all the serious replies to obvious troll.

 

[EgotiStick]

Some DOs have strong reputations that are probably more recognizable than weak or forgettable MD institution.

You're doing medical school to get into residency. Make sure whatever you do puts you into the best position for residency, and isn't so unbearable because of dbag colleagues or bad locations that it hinders you. Unless the location difference is like Miami vs Minnesota, I wouldn't give it that much weight.

 

[hiphopcrates]

That thread was awesome, remember it well.

Wow. You're right. That was a solid 12 minutes of entertainment.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Wow. You're right. That was a solid 12 minutes of entertainment.

Reading that thread was literally the most I had ever thought about the breeding of ponies in my entire life.

 

[dbeast]

Some DOs have strong reputations that are probably more recognizable than weak or forgettable MD institution.

You're doing medical school to get into residency. Make sure whatever you do puts you into the best position for residency, and isn't so unbearable because of dbag colleagues or bad locations that it hinders you. Unless the location difference is like Miami vs Minnesota, I wouldn't give it that much weight.

Which ones?

I'm sorry for bumping this!!!!!!!!! I'm really curious...

 

[patel2]

Some DOs have strong reputations that are probably more recognizable than weak or forgettable MD institution.

You're doing medical school to get into residency. Make sure whatever you do puts you into the best position for residency, and isn't so unbearable because of dbag colleagues or bad locations that it hinders you. Unless the location difference is like Miami vs Minnesota, I wouldn't give it that much weight.

No they don't

 

[Geneticist]

/DO owned

 

[hopeinternist]

No they don't

um yes. I am sure giants in the DO community such PCOM, KCOM (oldest osteopathic school in the world), CCOM, DMU are some of the schools that come to mind where a significant percentage of graduates pursue ROADS specialties ( assuming thats what you consider as one of the differentiating factors or "reputation" factors) and would definitely carry more weight than podunk MD school that one went to just because it was MD. Also, if what you consider "more recognizable" is based on a patient looking through the yellow pages and picking an MD over a DO due to ignorance/bias about the osteopathic profession, you are sadly mistaken.

As an EMT for several years I have worked and transported several patients to the ER or other facilities both for routine and emergency treatment who have researched through the internet or other sources and have learned more about what DOs provide. And especially those that have had an initial positive experience, eagerly seek and request DOs rather than MDs when needing treatment, regardless of whether OMM is actually performed for their medical condition, possibly due to familiarity and comfort when interacting with DOs rather than MDs. Obviously I am not saying all DOs are better than all MDs or vice versa, but rather pointing out that patients are much more knowledgeable these days and know their options when seeking treatment.

In addition, more MDs today realize the additional skill set DOs have and are even proactively pursuing courses in OMM after they receive their MD degree, for general interest as well as to actually implement in their practice. The bias ,I sense in your reply, is quite outdated and usually shown by much older physicians who are simply ignorant to the quality and capabilities of the osteopathic profession.

References: Recently speaking/interacting with several practicing physicians(specifically MD attendings who work and train DO medical students and graduates from these schools and can attest to the excellent quality of their training) as well as current medical students enrolled in those schools who picked them over MD schools because of the reputation that accompanies the name in addition to the top notch training they receive in regards to their medical education (whether it be rotation sites/alumni base/structure of curriculum etc.)

 

[patel2]

um yes. I am sure giants in the DO community such PCOM, KCOM (oldest osteopathic school in the world), CCOM, DMU are some of the schools that come to mind where a significant percentage of graduates pursue ROADS specialties ( assuming thats what you consider as one of the differentiating factors or "reputation" factors) and would definitely carry more weight than podunk MD school that one went to just because it was MD. Also, if what you consider "more recognizable" is based on a patient looking through the yellow pages and picking an MD over a DO due to ignorance/bias about the osteopathic profession, you are sadly mistaken.

As an EMT for several years I have worked and transported several patients to the ER or other facilities both for routine and emergency treatment who have researched through the internet or other sources and have learned more about what DOs provide. And especially those that have had an initial positive experience, eagerly seek and request DOs rather than MDs when needing treatment, regardless of whether OMM is actually performed for their medical condition, possibly due to familiarity and comfort when interacting with DOs rather than MDs. Obviously I am not saying all DOs are better than all MDs or vice versa, but rather pointing out that patients are much more knowledgeable these days and know their options when seeking treatment.

In addition, more MDs today realize the additional skill set DOs have and are even proactively pursuing courses in OMM after they receive their MD degree, for general interest as well as to actually implement in their practice. The bias ,I sense in your reply, is quite outdated and usually shown by much older physicians who are simply ignorant to the quality and capabilities of the osteopathic profession.

References: Recently speaking/interacting with several practicing physicians(specifically MD attendings who work and train DO medical students and graduates from these schools and can attest to the excellent quality of their training) as well as current medical students enrolled in those schools who picked them over MD schools because of the reputation that accompanies the name in addition to the top notch training they receive in regards to their medical education (whether it be rotation sites/alumni base/structure of curriculum etc.)

 

[dbeast]

Wait for it...

um yes. I am sure giants in the DO community such PCOM, KCOM (oldest osteopathic school in the world), CCOM, DMU are some of the schools that come to mind where a significant percentage of graduates pursue ROADS specialties ( assuming thats what you consider as one of the differentiating factors or "reputation" factors) and would definitely carry more weight than podunk MD school that one went to just because it was MD. Also, if what you consider "more recognizable" is based on a patient looking through the yellow pages and picking an MD over a DO due to ignorance/bias about the osteopathic profession, you are sadly mistaken.

As an EMT for several years I have worked and transported several patients to the ER or other facilities both for routine and emergency treatment who have researched through the internet or other sources and have learned more about what DOs provide. And especially those that have had an initial positive experience, eagerly seek and request DOs rather than MDs when needing treatment, regardless of whether OMM is actually performed for their medical condition, possibly due to familiarity and comfort when interacting with DOs rather than MDs. Obviously I am not saying all DOs are better than all MDs or vice versa, but rather pointing out that patients are much more knowledgeable these days and know their options when seeking treatment.

In addition, more MDs today realize the additional skill set DOs have and are even proactively pursuing courses in OMM after they receive their MD degree, for general interest as well as to actually implement in their practice. The bias ,I sense in your reply, is quite outdated and usually shown by much older physicians who are simply ignorant to the quality and capabilities of the osteopathic profession.

References: Recently speaking/interacting with several practicing physicians(specifically MD attendings who work and train DO medical students and graduates from these schools and can attest to the excellent quality of their training) as well as current medical students enrolled in those schools who picked them over MD schools because of the reputation that accompanies the name in addition to the top notch training they receive in regards to their medical education (whether it be rotation sites/alumni base/structure of curriculum etc.)

Ah yes, and there it is!

Commence MD vs. DO argument...

 

[hopeinternist]

And I don't see any bias in my post. I am applying and interviewing at DO schools...just saying that there isn't really a basis to say that DO schools have better reputations than certain US MD ones, since it's just not the case.

Glad to hear that you are applying to DO schools. There is a basis, for a better reputation, just as simple as a comparison can be made for medical school vs. medical school. Any established DO school, or MD school for that matter, that continuously produces stellar graduates in the Northeast region for example will obviously hold a better reputation with PDs in the area when students are applying for residencies compared to students applying from an unfamiliar school located somewhere in rural america ( MD or DO). My point isn't to show that DO schools are better than MD schools, but to clarify that schools can have a stronger presence/stronger reputation in an area where the regularly send students for rotations or residencies and it is less dependent on whether it is an MD or DO school.

 

[wanderer]

Ah yes, and there it is!

Commence MD vs. DO argument...

+1! Inb4 the lock.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I love MD vs. DO flame wars! Especially when everyone is so stressed about getting some acceptances stuck up on the refrigerator with some magnets...

... My point isn't to show that DO schools are better than MD schools...

Thank you for your charity. The pre-allo forum needs more benevolent DO-program students to share their...something with us.

References: Recently speaking/interacting with several practicing physicians(specifically MD attendings who work and train DO medical students and graduates from these schools and can attest to the excellent quality of their training) as well as current medical students enrolled in those schools who picked them over MD schools because of the reputation that accompanies the name in addition to the top notch training they receive in regards to their medical education (whether it be rotation sites/alumni base/structure of curriculum etc.)

Herp...selection bias...derp

 

[hopeinternist]

I love MD vs. DO flame wars! Especially when everyone is so stressed about getting some acceptances stuck up on the refrigerator with some magnets...


Thank you for your charity. The pre-allo forum needs more benevolent DO-program students to share their...something with us.



Herp...selection bias...derp

No problem, and wish you well in your endeavor to becoming a physician. I am sure your attitude and professionalism will take you far. Good luck.

 

[DrBowtie]

Burnett's Law invoked.

 

[g8orlife]

References: Recently speaking/interacting with several practicing physicians(specifically MD attendings who work and train DO medical students and graduates from these schools and can attest to the excellent quality of their training) as well as current medical students enrolled in those schools who picked them over MD schools because of the reputation that accompanies the name in addition to the top notch training they receive in regards to their medical education (whether it be rotation sites/alumni base/structure of curriculum etc.)

You need to speak/interace with more practicing physicians...

As an EMT for several years I have worked and transported several patients to the ER or other facilities both for routine and emergency treatment who have researched through the internet or other sources and have learned more about what DOs provide. And especially those that have had an initial positive experience, eagerly seek and request DOs rather than MDs when needing treatment, regardless of whether OMM is actually performed for their medical condition, possibly due to familiarity and comfort when interacting with DOs rather than MDs. Obviously I am not saying all DOs are better than all MDs or vice versa, but rather pointing out that patients are much more knowledgeable these days and know their options when seeking treatment.

In addition, more MDs today realize the additional skill set DOs have and are even proactively pursuing courses in OMM after they receive their MD degree, for general interest as well as to actually implement in their practice.

As a practicing PA-C who's spoken/interacted with more physicians, once again I repeat ... You need to speak/interace with more practicing physicians.

um yes. I am sure giants in the DO community such PCOM, KCOM (oldest osteopathic school in the world), CCOM, DMU are some of the schools that come to mind where a significant percentage of graduates pursue ROADS specialties ( assuming thats what you consider as one of the differentiating factors or "reputation" factors) and would definitely carry more weight than podunk MD school that one went to just because it was MD. Also, if what you consider "more recognizable" is based on a patient looking through the yellow pages and picking an MD over a DO due to ignorance/bias about the osteopathic profession, you are sadly mistaken

Most PDs can't even name one DO school outside their city. Thus, I wouldn't count that as a positive in the "reputation" factor.
(And since you like References...) References: The 11 residency PDs I asked before applying this cycle (AND 2 of them were DO residency PDs who agreed).

 

[orthomyxo]

1. Probably I would still pick the MD school. Thing is that most DO schools aren't in desirable locations at all...they are in places like iowa, maine, the midwest, in rural or suburban places (with some exceptions like Nova right outside miami/ft. lauderdale). If there were DO schools in nyc (in manhattan), boston, or DC then I'd strongly consider going to one over a rural MD school...so being accepted to a DO school in a great location is rarely an issue you will deal with (unless by great you just mean close to family/friends).

2. No it doesn't matter for primary care but how do you know 100% you want to do primary care?

3. Yes, avoid mandatory attendance schools like the plague if you have the option. I can't imagine being forced to sit in a class from 9-5 5 days a week. That being said, you won't be working any less harder at a school without required attendance, but will just be more efficient and have more free time. Many, if not most DO schools, require mandatory attendance while almost no MD schools do.

Holy crap this. Why are there so many DO schools in the middle of nowhere??

 

[DrBowtie]

Holy crap this. Why are there so many DO schools in the middle of nowhere??

Because these places are already saturated and they have a hard time securing rotation locations.

 

[willen101383]

Holy crap this. Why are there so many DO schools in the middle of nowhere??

The misconceptions on this thread are many.

For every DO school in the sticks there is one in a great spot. I go to PCOM in Philly...and you couldnt ask for a better "medical town," considering the number of med schools we have here.

And as far as mandatory attendance goes patel...I would avoid making sweeping remarks considering I only know of a few DO schools that require this....and mine sure as hell isnt one of them since I havent been to school since week 4.

 

[patel2]

The misconceptions on this thread are many.

For every DO school in the sticks there is one in a great spot. I go to PCOM in Philly...and you couldnt ask for a better "medical town," considering the number of med schools we have here.

And as far as mandatory attendance goes patel...I would avoid making sweeping remarks considering I only know of a few DO schools that require this....and mine sure as hell isnt one of them since I havent been to school since week 4.

PCOM, Nova, CCOM maybe a handful of others are in good spots, but tons of DO schools are in rural or small towns outside of major markets/cities, especially in the northeast. It's definitely not a 1:1 ratio of schools in a bad spot to a great spot. PCOM is also one of the handful of exceptions to not having mandatory attendance, not the rule. I've researched this a lot in the past on SDN, because that is a really important factor to picking a school.

 

[willen101383]

PCOM, Nova, CCOM maybe a handful of others are in good spots, but tons of DO schools are in rural or small towns outside of major markets/cities, especially in the northeast. It's definitely not a 1:1 ratio of schools in a bad spot to a great spot. PCOM is also one of the handful of exceptions to not having mandatory attendance, not the rule. I've researched this a lot in the past on SDN, because that is a really important factor to picking a school.

I guess your definition of a "good location" consists of major metro areas. I for one despise huge cities and there are plenty of other spots people would consider desirable.

I just went through the college information booklet and made a tally of schools in rural areas vs developed either urban or suburban areas. I got 13 schools in rural Anytown, USA.....and 15 in suburban/urban areas.

Care to post which schools youve researched that have mandatory attendance? I only know of Nova off the top of my head. and BTW I am not trying to make this out to be a minor point...considering (like I said) I self study and have had really good results with it so far..and would consider this a huge point for prospective students to consider.

I am not going to be a "DO denialist" because I will be the first to rip into the negatives of the DO pathway. I do agree that there are a ton of DO schools in ****ty areas. But are there MD schools in **** areas too? Hell yes. Maybe not as many proportionally but yeah they definitely exist.

 

[slatermd]

I prefer rural as well. Chicago has been fun, but I definitely prefer open spaces, woods (heh heh...wood...heh heh), and lakes. 👍 for Michigan and Minnesooooota.

 

[gravitywave]

lol at Maine being undesirable!!! where do you think all the NYers come to GTFO of the city?

 

[willen101383]

lol at Maine being undesirable!!! where do you think all the NYers come to GTFO of the city?

UNE was one of my top choices next to PCOM...but the admin changes sort of freaked me out.

 

[g8orlife]

Burnett's Law invoked.

Great catch btw.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

No problem, and wish you well in your endeavor to becoming a physician. I am sure your attitude and professionalism will take you far. Good luck.

I could have written that post for you prior to you ever putting finger to keyboard. Your predictability is...predictable. Strong work friend. In the mean time...

 

[lockjaw]

lol at Maine being undesirable!!! where do you think all the NYers come to GTFO of the city?

Agreed. I'd go to any school in small-town New England before choosing to live in Boston/NYC/Philly/D.C. Those cities are way too big and hectic for me to handle. Everyone's opinion of "desirable" varies significantly.

 

[patel2]

Agreed. I'd go to any school in small-town New England before choosing to live in Boston/NYC/Philly/D.C. Those cities are way too big and hectic for me to handle. Everyone's opinion of "desirable" varies significantly.

good point i retract my earlier statement.

 

[Wilf]

One thing I worry about for the future is physician saturation given that new med schools are opening and current ones are increasing their class sizes. If doctors have a hard time finding jobs or getting enough patients, MDs might advertise themselves more. Many people on SDN who say that going DO is just as good as going MD are only looking at how the field is currently.

 

[DJtiesto]

One thing I worry about for the future is physician saturation given that new med schools are opening and current ones are increasing their class sizes. If doctors have a hard time finding jobs or getting enough patients, MDs might advertise themselves more. Many people on SDN who say that going DO is just as good as going MD are only looking at how the field is currently.

There won't be a physician saturation due to the increased class sizes or DO schools. The rate of increase in the number of physicians produced annually is drastically lower than the rate of the increase in the U.S. population. It's not even close. There is a graph depicting this shortage in the beginning of the MSAR book.

 

[UbuntuGM]

LOL @ this thread.

 

[patel2]

Touro COM is located at 125th street in Manhattan, NYC.
NYCOM is located in the immediate suburbs to NYC
PCOM. is in the city of Philadelphia
CCOM is located in the immediate suburbs to Chicago
Western U/COMP is in Pomona California, part of the whole LA metropolis
TUNCOM-NV is in Henderson which literally across the city line from Las Vegas
UNDMJ-SOM is in straford, NJ, basically across the river from Philadelphia
TUCOM-CA is in Vallejo, CA, on San Francisco Bay.
AZCOM is in Glendale, population 250,000
ATSU/SOMA is in Mesa, population about 450,000, which is larger than more recognizable cities such as Miami, Minneapolis, St. Louis, and Cleveland

Yes, many are in rural places but at least 1/2 are in large population centers.

Just the facts.

touro is in harlem
nycom is long island
umdnj is in rural NJ

 

[MCAT guy]

Burnett's Law invoked.

lol. Burnett's always always in effect.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

touro is in harlem
nycom is long island
umdnj is in rural NJ

I don't think rural is a good description for a place which is roughly 30 minutes away from 2 major cities. Touro NY is actually in a pretty nice location in terms of NY lifestyle. I mean it really is in one of the better locations of Harlem..

 

[MCAT guy]

My ideas on the DO vs MD debate...

• Being a great physician relies upon your work ethic and natural abilities, which means you can be a great physician regardless of where you attend.
• Some schools are much much better than others. This goes for MD vs other MD's and MD vs DO. So saying, "it doesn't matter where you go", always makes me go 😕. Some schools will have more opportunities and connections.
• The most competitive specialties emphasize research and their complementary Allo-residencies are typically MD-friendly and DO-unfriendly (i.e. Derm, Rad Onc, Ortho, Neuro Surgery, etc.)
• If you are applying for an ACGME residency that is DO-friendly (not super competitive), then it doesn't matter as much. Just be an excellent applicant. Also, there are always DO residencies for some of the specialties.
• Regardless of their title (MD/DO), there are great physician and poor physicians.

 

[MCAT guy]

In addition, more MDs today realize the additional skill set DOs have and are even proactively pursuing courses in OMM after they receive their MD degree, for general interest as well as to actually implement in their practice. The bias ,I sense in your reply, is quite outdated and usually shown by much older physicians who are simply ignorant to the quality and capabilities of the osteopathic profession.

References: Recently speaking/interacting with several practicing physicians(specifically MD attendings who work and train DO medical students and graduates from these schools and can attest to the excellent quality of their training) as well as current medical students enrolled in those schools who picked them over MD schools because of the reputation that accompanies the name in addition to the top notch training they receive in regards to their medical education (whether it be rotation sites/alumni base/structure of curriculum etc.)

First, References??? lol.

Second, what percentage of MD's are taking OMM? When you say "more" MD's, how many?

I'm sure there is data on this...

 

[Barcu]

There won't be a physician saturation due to the increased class sizes or DO schools. The rate of increase in the number of physicians produced annually is drastically lower than the rate of the increase in the U.S. population. It's not even close. There is a graph depicting this shortage in the beginning of the MSAR book.

Yeah, but those additional graduates need to be trained in a residency, and these spots are not increasing along with the increase in med school size.

So, there may be more competition in the future for residencies, and I would guess DOs would feel it more than MDs.