How RIGOROUS is the Au.D program?

[FutureEarDoc]

Hi! I was wondering if any current Au.D. students could tell me how difficult your program is? I want to be prepared for the hefty workload. Do you have a part-time job? How many hours a day are you in class? How many hours do you have "off" a day to relax? I'm really interested in applying for the Au.D. programs but am hesitant and scared that I might not be able to handle a rigorous program.

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[EarDoc6]

Hey futureeardoc... I, like you, had the same questions prior to starting the program. I am a 1st year student at Montclair State. Several of us hold part-time jobs, including myself (working 15 hours a week, although I could be working more). Depending on the day, we are in class for 4.5 hours on our longest day. We typically have at least 1.5 hours in between classes to relax. We always have off on Friday's, so that's a 3 day weekend for us. There's plenty of time to come home from class and wind down, by watching some tv or go on the computer, before beginning our work. Although, on a study night we may lose that free time - you can make up for it on another night! Hope that helped!

 

[drcheaud]

I, too, am a first year student at AT Still. I guess all programs are different in their own little ways. We have Wednesdays "off" to go to a clinical rotation for 4 hours of observation. On other days we average about 5 hours of class time. The program starts pretty slowly and then gets rolling so be prepared and don't get caught getting too far behind because you won't be very happy. Some kids in my class have part time jobs but most of us are involved in work study (AuD programs are pretty pricey).

 

[SoCalAud]

Good job for posting this up! It's nice to have this forum to talk to current AuD students and AuDs.

 

[Dustbug10]

First year student at UAMS here. I have class on Monday and Wed., roughly ten hours per week. I spend about 3 hours in clinic on Thursday and work the other days as a GA about 15-20 hours per week. I have extra hearing screenings to attend, labs, research participation, mandatory med school lectures, Grand Rounds, and a girlfriend that lives about a half hour away. My social life and wind down time has definitely taken a dip. The curriculum is difficult but does not require the same work that some of the more 'prestigious' medical professions demand. The toughest adjustment for me has not been in the classroom, rather than constant extra-curricular obligations required by the program. My strength was never sticking to a routine and ahead of the game so to speak, but I have come a long ways since the beginning of the semester. Basically, if you come into the program with exceptional time management skills and maintained day-to-day focus, you can avoid playing catchup all the time and live a functional life as a student. Best of luck to you..

 

[EarDoc6]

I should note that the purpose of having off on Fridays at Montclair State is to use it to get our clinical observation hours. It's just "off" in terms of having class.

 

[cidanu]

Hello. Gally here. Unfortunately my testimony will not be as sugar-coated as others, but I don't mean to discourage you from grad school or Gallaudet as an option. You will be fine no matter where you go. Every program is different. My program is really heavy on coursework in the first 2 years, but I'm learning so much.

I have class 6 days a week (ASL on Saturdays). I do not have a job nor do most of my cohort (no GA or RA either). Several 2nd years choose to work in the department and there is work available for those who want it. If you're a person who is good with time management then you could totally work. For me personally, I can't imagine another responsibility on top of everything else. Classwork is really intense. There's just a lot of work and the level of knowledge that you're expected to retain is higher than in any previous coursework I've experienced. I'm probably in the top 30% of my class so it's not just that I'm struggling. It's just a lot of work. I'm also taking 16 credits right now. 3 of those are an ASL class that don't count for grad credit. But next semester I'll be taking 17 grad credits plus an ASL class. I cherish my free time to de-stress, cook some real food, and clean my apartment.

From what I hear from other students, 1st semester is one of the hardest. I hope to get a job next year but for now I'm playing it safe. There are one or two nights a week that I don't do any work and just relax or go out for happy hour or something, but most of my time is accounted for.

 

[AuDfaculty]

HI
I am an audiologist with an Au.D. and a PhD, I went to an AuD program and now I teach at one. I would say that you should judge what program to apply to by how hard it is. I know that sounds odd; however, if you think about who you would want to be your doctor, or your mother's doctor....Wouldn't you want the one that went to the hardest program? The one with the most classes and the one that taught them the most?

There are several good programs out there. I do not think however that they are all created equal. My recommendation is to look specifically at the course requirements. What classes do they have first semester first year, second semester and so on. Look and compare the total number of credits. Look at what types of classes are there. Do they offer you more than one vestibular course, is there a course in cochlear implants, is there any biomedical basis for what you are learning??

I tell all of our prospective students, when looking at a program, do not think about it being too hard. Think about how you want to feel about yourself when you graduate. Do you want to know that you graduated from the most challenging program out there? Or do you want to know that you went to just whatever program was close or that accepted you.

Think about what you think makes a good program. Maybe that is that they teach ASL, if so, Gally is for you. Maybe you want a program that has a ton of hands on instruction and has a biomedical component, if so then Salus is for you. There are a lot of programs, remember though, you only get to go to one of them, so think long and hard about your decision. If you have any questions about Salus U. I would be happy to answer them.

Good luck! Remember, a doctoral program is not a good one if it isnt rigorous!

 

[Dustbug10]

Many of us took ASL twice in undergrad. I would not judge a grad program based on the core requirement of that course. I would imagine most would allow you to take the undergrad course as an elective.

 

[cidanu]

Dustbug- I also took ASL as an undergrad, but let me tell you, doing case histories with clients in ASL is a whole different story. =) See how fast you can fingerspell meningitis. =)

 

[Dustbug10]

Just suggesting that I don't view my description as being 'sugar-coated'. Not to start a pissing contest by any means. I've read truly great things about all of Gallaudet for a long time.

 

[cidanu]

i guess silver-lining would have been a better term than sugar-coated. from reading other experiences, i felt like the message was "it's hard, but it's not that bad." whereas i feel like it's hard and also bad. =) wasn't trying to imply anything about you or your program. it could totally have everything to with me and not the program. who knows.

 

[FutureEarDoc]

HI
I am an audiologist with an Au.D. and a PhD, I went to an AuD program and now I teach at one. I would say that you should judge what program to apply to by how hard it is. I know that sounds odd; however, if you think about who you would want to be your doctor, or your mother's doctor....Wouldn't you want the one that went to the hardest program? The one with the most classes and the one that taught them the most?

There are several good programs out there. I do not think however that they are all created equal. My recommendation is to look specifically at the course requirements. What classes do they have first semester first year, second semester and so on. Look and compare the total number of credits. Look at what types of classes are there. Do they offer you more than one vestibular course, is there a course in cochlear implants, is there any biomedical basis for what you are learning??

I tell all of our prospective students, when looking at a program, do not think about it being too hard. Think about how you want to feel about yourself when you graduate. Do you want to know that you graduated from the most challenging program out there? Or do you want to know that you went to just whatever program was close or that accepted you.

Think about what you think makes a good program. Maybe that is that they teach ASL, if so, Gally is for you. Maybe you want a program that has a ton of hands on instruction and has a biomedical component, if so then Salus is for you. There are a lot of programs, remember though, you only get to go to one of them, so think long and hard about your decision. If you have any questions about Salus U. I would be happy to answer them.

Good luck! Remember, a doctoral program is not a good one if it isnt rigorous!

Your response was useless and kind of pompous. I wish I could delete it.

 

[audiology]

.

 

[Dustbug10]

Your response was useless and kind of pompous. I wish I could delete it.

I love it..

 

[EarDoc6]

Your response was useless and kind of pompous. I wish I could delete it.

fabulous futureeardoc!

Maybe they don't realize that there are actually students out there that DO NOT want to attend Salus U. - Oooo, wow, imagine that!

Look and compare the total number of credits

Can you please tell me what significance you think this holds?

At Montclair the degree is a Sc.D. in Audiology - because of the added research component the required amount of credits is 118 - does that make Montclair more appealing than Salus's? What is your point here?????

 

[EarDoc6]

HI
I am an audiologist with an Au.D. and a PhD, I went to an AuD program and now I teach at one. I would say that you should judge what program to apply to by how hard it is. I know that sounds odd; however, if you think about who you would want to be your doctor, or your mother's doctor....Wouldn't you want the one that went to the hardest program? The one with the most classes and the one that taught them the most?

There are several good programs out there. I do not think however that they are all created equal. My recommendation is to look specifically at the course requirements. What classes do they have first semester first year, second semester and so on. Look and compare the total number of credits. Look at what types of classes are there. Do they offer you more than one vestibular course, is there a course in cochlear implants, is there any biomedical basis for what you are learning??

I tell all of our prospective students, when looking at a program, do not think about it being too hard. Think about how you want to feel about yourself when you graduate. Do you want to know that you graduated from the most challenging program out there? Or do you want to know that you went to just whatever program was close or that accepted you.

Think about what you think makes a good program. Maybe that is that they teach ASL, if so, Gally is for you. Maybe you want a program that has a ton of hands on instruction and has a biomedical component, if so then Salus is for you. There are a lot of programs, remember though, you only get to go to one of them, so think long and hard about your decision. If you have any questions about Salus U. I would be happy to answer them.

Good luck! Remember, a doctoral program is not a good one if it isnt rigorous!

Oh, and tell waxlover we say Hi!!!

 

[BigAl]

i don't get it, has the apps for the aud drop in salus is this the reason for all these plugs? SDN should start charging you guys.

anywho, no matter what school you go to its hard, stressful and at times overwhelming. this is what separates the men from the boys and the women from the girls. the way i look at it is, if the person thats a yr ahead of was able to do it than so can i. thats pretty much the attitude u need to have.

 

[eardocsavvy]

i don't get it, has the apps for the aud drop in salus is this the reason for all these plugs? SDN should start charging you guys.

anywho, no matter what school you go to its hard, stressful and at times overwhelming. this is what separates the men from the boys and the women from the girls. the way i look at it is, if the person thats a yr ahead of was able to do it than so can i. thats pretty much the attitude u need to have.

Salus and these "ads" are funny. There was a day on SDN where all the replies were from Salus.. I can say I visited their school while I was visiting family in PA, and it wasnt that impressive. I actually will not be applying there and maybe they should do advertising other than on here if they want more people to apply.

Good luck to everyone, great insights!!

 

[AuDfaculty]

Your response was useless and kind of pompous. I wish I could delete it.

Salus is really starting to turn me off. It seems like all the promoters are like stereotypical sleazeball carsales ppl.

FutureEarDoc, I agree with your above response.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, as far as useless responses, perhaps just telling someone that their opinion is not valid is useless and should be deleted. I am asked all the time by students how to judge what programs, I do not see how telling future students to look at curriculum for programs they are interested in, is being pompous. Perhaps, if you are not prepared to hear about multiple programs, you are not picking yours for the right reasons. I said in my message that there are a lot of programs, many of them very good. I loved going to Gallaudet, I have also taught in other programs and think they are wonderful. I simply was asked a question, via private message, and I decided to respond to the group. I think it is really important for students to judge programs based on what you will get out in 10 years, not just what your life will look like for 4.

I am glad that not everyone had a negative reaction, I appreciate those who private messaged with specific questions about programs. Let me be clear, Salus is not the only good program; however, I would not work there if I was not proud that it is one of the best programs. If you disagree, you have the right; however, if you are getting ready for doctoral study, I would hope you could be more mature in your responses.

Good luck to you all in whatever programs you decide to go to and get accepted to

 

[eargirl]

I think that is what is to be expected from any teacher, it is ok to say what you think, but saying that what audfaculty said was "sleazeball" just isnt true. If you would not go to a great program because you are sensitive to something someone said here???? Too bad for you! I appreciate when faculty are honest and say what they think. I don't think I will get in to Salus (so this doesnt fully apply to me), but this whole line of discussion about someone saying something wrong or whatever, is dumb.

Salus is really starting to turn me off. It seems like all the promoters are like stereotypical sleazeball carsales ppl.

FutureEarDoc, I agree with your above response.

 

[teucer]

The whole argument posted by user AUDFACULTY is largely without basis, whether the program at Salus is good, bad or ugly.

1. Audiology is not a brain drain. You look in someone's ear, print a tympanogram the computer figures out for you, print some otoacoustic emission data the computer creates for you, plot an audiogram of the individual's hearing thresholds, etc. Bekesy even created a machine that allowed for pure tone threshold measurement to become automated (look up Bekesy's automated pure-tone test), though I haven't heard of anyone in industry doing it this way.

Most of it is routine. You'll get your oddballs here and there but you're basically there to see if you can help the guy with some hearing aids. Getting into balance disorders is a little more complicated but this is relatively unusual in the audiology profession. People with high school educations, e.g. hearing aid technicians, do a comparable job to the Au.D. We just have better background info that doesn't always directly correlate to the job.
Examples of information we are taught that doesn't correlate to the job:
a. Overly detailed electronics (instrumentation) information that could be used if we actually disassembled the audiometry equipment or were ambitious and wished to build our own audiometer.
b. Psychoacoustics information that would be useful as a Ph.D. but not as an Au.D. such as the "precedence effect", etc.

You'll work with ENTs on occasion to run ABRs and see if there's anything going on with that might indicate something requiring medical attention is going on, but other than that, as an audiologist most anything that requires the attention of a doctor will go to the "real" doctor...the Medical Doctor. This is whether it's discharge related, perforated eardrum related, otitis media related, etc. If it can't be fixed with a hearing aid and/or the patient requires medical intervention, to the ENT he will go, end of story.

Any accredited program will allow students to become proficient at being an audiologist regardless of the perceived difficulty level.

2. It is impossible to determine the relative difficulty of Au.D. programs until you have matriculated there. This is the case whether you're several thousand miles away making your decisions or made that trip to the open house or talked to the students etc. You don't know until you are there.

3. I don't know what to think about AUDFACULTY's postings other than it is highly irregular to see any Au.D. Faculty posting on this site. Now that I have seen the opinions of others, I can understand why they would think SALUS is trying to "pimp" it's program. A program needs a certain amount of matriculates in order to stay a program and I can't blame them for advertising but perhaps this is the wrong place to do it.

4. The most difficult thing about getting through an audiology program isn't the job itself (e.g. clinic) but the barrage of information that does not have a direct clinical correlate to the clinical audiologist that is jammed into the students' heads. I look at it much more like I'm getting a Ph.D. than an M.D., if that helps prospective applicants picture how the program is run and what is expected of you.

5. All programs have to meet certain critera for them to be accredited. Pick a school on your best judgement of the "big picture" and be done with it.

6. Remember that, up until some years ago, audiologists had masters degrees. Many of these people still practice and are just fine at what they do--we have one such individual in our program that is teaching the Au.D. students. To me this further discredits the idea that the Au.D. somehow makes any difference in how students perform in the long run.

7. Lastly, we've all busted our own balls to get where we are in whatever college we have chosen to matriculate through. Let's remember to support one another and put more emphasis on how we are engaged in a common struggle vs. a competitive arena. I admit comments from faculty that parade certain programs does not contribute to overall self-esteem with respect to individuals that read these threads, mostly undergrad applicants and graduate students running themselves through the ringer to the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[elcobb]

X

 

[Vesti]

elcobb, where do you go to school, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[BigAl]

teucer you have too much time on your hands to write all that out, lol. as we can see this will answer to the posted question, teucers' program is not rigorous enough, wanna do some of my work HAHA jk

audfaculty ive actually been trying to find the reasoning for all the med requirement for salus, haven't seem to have found an answer. does salus think auds are gonna become mds eventually or we are gonna prescribe meds? serious question...

 

[teucer]

God forbid we ever start having Au.D.s masquerading as physicians by prescribing medication. Au.D.s cannot even legally remove cerumen in many states! With the sort of education Au.D.s are provided, this is entirely appropriate, although I don't have too much of a problem with an Au.D. performing cerumen management.

teucer you have too much time on your hands to write all that out, lol. as we can see this will answer to the posted question, teucers' program is not rigorous enough, wanna do some of my work HAHA jk

audfaculty ive actually been trying to find the reasoning for all the med requirement for salus, haven't seem to have found an answer. does salus think auds are gonna become mds eventually or we are gonna prescribe meds? serious question...

 

[cidanu]

i agree that audiologists are not MDs and the doc ultimately has responsibility in many cases, but i wouldn't underestimate what we do.

hearing loss is not a trivial matter for people who experience it and we can have a huge impact on clients' quality of life.

audiologists can also play a significant role in diagnostics. we just studied a case today where the ABR completely changed the diagnosis.

there's a reason that audiology is represented on this forum, which is called the "student doctor network."

if you undercut your own value as an audiologist, expect others to as well.

 

[teucer]

You hit the nail on the head as far as undercutting! I fully expect to be undercut as an Audiologist approximately $200,000.00 per-year from an Ear Nose and Throat's salary...

http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/2006/06/ear-note-throat-ent-surgeon-salaries.html

Vs.

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_compresult_national_HC07000022.html

Or, rather, I expect my employers (others) to undercut me about that much, anyway. There's a reason the ENT makes 260k+ and the audiologist 60k+ per annum. I am being realistic here. Hooking up electrodes to the patient's head and looking at some wave forms is exciting and all and this is exactly the realm of practice we should be engaging in, not prescribing meds.

Everybody, please repeat:
1. Audiologists Are Clinicians, Known As "Doctors of Audiology", not "Doctors of Medicine", aka Physicians
2. Audiologists Will Never Be Physicians.
3. Audiologists Should Not Aspire to be Physicians Within their Own Scope of Practice, Lest They Attend Medical School and Become an ENT.
4. Just Because Audiology is on the Student Doctor Network (As is Occupational Therapy, Speech Language Pathology, etc.) Does Not Mean we are Physicians.

 

[Loc Finesse]

You hit the nail on the head as far as undercutting! I fully expect to be undercut as an Audiologist approximately $200,000.00 per-year from an Ear Nose and Throat's salary...

http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/2006/06/ear-note-throat-ent-surgeon-salaries.html

Vs.

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_compresult_national_HC07000022.html

Or, rather, I expect my employers (others) to undercut me about that much, anyway. There's a reason the ENT makes 260k+ and the audiologist 60k+ per annum. I am being realistic here. Hooking up electrodes to the patient's head and looking at some wave forms is exciting and all and this is exactly the realm of practice we should be engaging in, not prescribing meds.

Everybody, please repeat:
1. Audiologists Are Clinicians, Known As "Doctors of Audiology", not "Doctors of Medicine", aka Physicians
2. Audiologists Will Never Be Physicians.
3. Audiologists Should Not Aspire to be Physicians Within their Own Scope of Practice, Lest They Attend Medical School and Become an ENT.
4. Just Because Audiology is on the Student Doctor Network (As is Occupational Therapy, Speech Language Pathology, etc.) Does Not Mean we are Physicians.

When you all have time (like 1st yrs. do!), peep your eyes on this....

"As we alerted you to in previous messages, the American Medical Association (AMA) was developing an audiology scope of practice document. That document has now been released in draft form and AMA has invited comments. The stated intention by AMA is that the document "serve as a resource for state medical associations, national medical specialty societies and policymakers." The full text of AMA's document can be accessed on ASHA's Web site through this link: AMA Scope of Practice Data Series: Audiologists [PDF, 32 MB].
ASHA does not believe that AMA is the appropriate source of audiology scope of practice information. Rather, we believe that experts within the audiology profession should be the source of this information. We believe that this document does not serve the interests of audiologists or those with communications disorders.
We are currently drafting a response. In addition to our direct response to AMA, ASHA will also provide feedback to AMA through the Coalition for Patient Rights (CPR), an organization that ASHA helped establish in 2006 and that includes more than 35 organizations representing more than one million non-physician, health-care providers. As you may remember from our earlier messages, the CPR was created to counter efforts by the AMA Scope of Practice Initiative to limit patient choice of health care providers.
We are also in the process of seeking comments from other audiology organizations. If you have suggestions for us to include in our comments about the AMA scope of practice document, please share those with ASHA's Chief Staff Officer for Audiology Vic Gladstone ([email protected]).
We will keep you posted regarding ASHA's response to this document and any other further developments regarding this situation."

-Sue Hale
ASHA President


Discuss.....

 

[cidanu]

teucer, if you want to continue comparing audiologists to doctors, then go right ahead. and you will continue to carry a heightened awareness of the differences.

all i'm saying is it takes all kinds. and just because audiologists don't make the salary of an MD, don't have 8 years of training, and don't do brain surgery, it doesn't mean our role is insignificant or unimportant. we have a responsibility to our clients that shouldn't be taken lightly.

 

[SoCalAud]

Okay, I know you all are not part of an admissions committee for AuD programs, but be honest, do you think those with hearing loss will get into an AuD program and who show serious passion for this field even if their GPA isn't a 4.0?

I noticed many AuD programs require applicants to the have the highest G.P.A. and excellent GRE scores to be considered a competitive applicant, and I think all that is a bunch of crap to look at and use that to pick out applicants. How does a gpa and a gre score show that the applicant is dedicated and willing to work in the audiology field? Did you know that those that got accepted to SDSU/UCSD AuD Program for Fall 2009 and four out of 10 dropped out? I know similar situation in other AuD programs

Plus, I have a classmate in one of my classes right now and about a month ago she decided to switch her concentration from SLP to audiology because she thinks it's more interesting. I think that's great, but don't you need to be a little more serious about this field?

I don't think that with my hearing loss I have the more of an advantage to get in, but i'm using that as a way to show these admissions committees that I know what audiology is and that I'm interested in being a member of this field. I can relate to deaf/hard of hearing patients and know how to talk to parents with children with hearing loss.

The GPA and GRE scores factors shouldn't be the main points to look at to pick to pick future AuD students. To be honest, I know people with 4.0 GPAs who literally cheated their way to get there and I know people who have a 2.6 gpa who are beyond intelligent. The gpa and all is bull**** and I'm sorry to crush some of you who may have worked your butt off to get your high gpa. I work hard, too for my gpa.

Back to my hearing loss, later when I write my letter of intent and talk about my hearing loss and reasons for being interested in this field, will it help me get in if my ending undegrad gpa is not a perfect 4.0, but is maybe a 3.3 or a 3.5 and if my gre score ends up being a 1000?

 

[shoutybot]

SoCalAud:

Just to set the record straight, it is not the SDSU/UCSD Fall 2009 entering class that has had 4 drop out; all 11 of us first years are going strong =). The current second years (entering Fall 2008) and the current third years have seen drops, for the reasons that you previously mentioned.

It's impossible to tell from here who will get in where and with what scores, etc. I think if your passion and commitment to audiology comes through in your personal statement, that may help to balance any concerns you have with your GPA. A 3.3-3.5 will definitely not shut you out. It's an extremely busy time of year so I can't guarantee how quickly I'll respond, but you can PM me if you want to ask me anything about applications and what not. I could look over your personal statement too if you'd like. I received my share of help during the application process, so I'm more than happy to pay it forward. =)

 

[SoCalAud]

Sorry for the error. I thought it was the class of Fall 2009? I might have heard it differently. Anyways, I definitely appreciate you wanting to help me with the application process. I will start that next year, so that will be a ways from now.

By the way, how's the program at SDSU/UCSD? Did you go to the Open House to talk to perspective students?

 

[psusarahkate]

I'm still in undergrad, but when I went to my interview the AuD. sounded very rigorous. Physics, math, anatomy, lots of tough courses. The schedule will be from about 8-4 on weekdays. There is tutoring available and I think although it's going to be a challenge, it will also be rewarding and fun too!

 

[SoCalAud]

That was a smart thing to do! I should do that, too. It will definitely be hectic during grad school, but if you are truly serious about becoming an audiologist, you'll see the good things going your way when you're all done with school. Stay in there! We need AuDs!!!

By the way, did you notice my username has a big error? It's suppose to be AuD and I tried to change that, but I don't know how. Do you?