On my AMCAS I listed one of my most meaningful experiences as a clinical volunteer as having 200 hours. I listed the end date as May 2022 but at the time of making my application I only had around 40. If I don’t make up those hours and they find out I didn’t get the 200 will I be blacklisted or have an acceptance taken away? I realize now how dumb it is now but I really thought it was realistic at the time. I also didn’t list how many hours I had completed at the time just total which included my expected end amount.
How screwed am I?
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You will be fine. You do not "owe" any hours that you list as future/expected. We understand and expect plans to change (pun intended), which is why future hours are given considerably less weight in the decision process. For future applicants, this is why it's recommended to separate out any current/completed hours so you get credit for the work that you've already done. Just my thoughts.
Since I’ve only done like 25% of what I actually put and didn’t acknowledge that will they see that as lying if they look into it? I did add the date range from august 2020 to May 2022 but didn’t explain it as I didn’t know I needed to. AAMC simply just says “Enter the total number of hours that you completed (or expect to complete) related to this experience during the date range that you indicated.”
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ok so agree with the response above.
having said that though, if i was the one reading your application, i would think, - "this person must have done very little in life if they list 40-200 hours of volunteering as one of the most meaningful experiences"?
having said that though, if i was the one reading your application, i would think, - "this person must have done very little in life if they list 40-200 hours of volunteering as one of the most meaningful experiences"?
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Right, but he didn't mention the 40 anywhere, which is why he's concerned. He listed an activity as stretching from 8/20 to 5/22, and having 200 hours, which implies he has completed at least 100, which is more than double his actual numbers.
I agree that all of these numbers are so relatively modest that they are unlikely to mean anything to anyone. I also agree that OP absolutely should have been clear on the front end with respect to breaking out completed and anticipated. It's also clear why he didn't, since it would have looked pretty weird for a 40 hour experience to be a most meaningful.
Now he's worried about having a problem if he doesn't even complete the 200 by next May. It's a small risk but it's not zero. Some schools do perform some EC due diligence post-CTE. If it ends up being 180 hours this isn't a thing, but, if OP flat out lied, and 200 hours ends up being 75 or 100, with only 40 completed at the time of his MME essay, and he gets caught, yeah, it could end up being a problem.
My advice would be to make damn sure he completes the 200, and then apologize for any misunderstanding if anyone gives him grief for not breaking out completed hours at the time of application. JMHO.
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I disagree with much of what I see here regarding how much time was completed, how much time was anticipated, the consequences of not completing all the time listed as happening in the future, and whether a short span of time can be a meaningful experience.
In very intense interactions, a series of short experiences can be very meaningful. I volunteered doing food prep/cooking with kids in a housing project until Covid. Although only 90 minutes per week for about 24 weeks, I would say it was very meaningful. The interactions with the kids and my fellow volunteers and the adults living in the development were meaningful although short-lived. I would say the same for visits I've made to families in distress... After making 20 calls of about an hour each, and spending a hour or two sorting things out later to address the familiy's situation, I might say that those 40 hours were very meaningful and taught me a great deal about myself and the people in my community whose stories and situations would have been hidden from me if it were not for the volunteer experience I had with them.
So, it is not the length of an experience that makes it memorable but the memories you make while you are experiencing it.
In very intense interactions, a series of short experiences can be very meaningful. I volunteered doing food prep/cooking with kids in a housing project until Covid. Although only 90 minutes per week for about 24 weeks, I would say it was very meaningful. The interactions with the kids and my fellow volunteers and the adults living in the development were meaningful although short-lived. I would say the same for visits I've made to families in distress... After making 20 calls of about an hour each, and spending a hour or two sorting things out later to address the familiy's situation, I might say that those 40 hours were very meaningful and taught me a great deal about myself and the people in my community whose stories and situations would have been hidden from me if it were not for the volunteer experience I had with them.
So, it is not the length of an experience that makes it memorable but the memories you make while you are experiencing it.
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I agree with everything you are saying about the potential to have a meaningful experience in a short period of time. But, as an adcom, are you really not concerned if an applicant claims 200 hours when only 40 have been completed and the applicant does not make that clear? If the applicant does not go on to complete some or all of the remaining 160 hours, and does not let you know, do you also not care? If so, that's very good to know!
Personally, I get not sweating the difference between 190 and 200 hours, or between 1900 and 2000 hours, but the difference between 40 or 100 and 200 hours seems significant, with an implied intent to mislead. If adcoms don't care at all about hour counts, then I guess there is no reason to screw around with them.
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What have you done? What have you taken away from it? Are you still engaged in that activity? If not, why did you stop? That's pretty much the sum total of what I care about when it comes to volunteerism. The hours are less important to me.
I have interviewed at least one candidate who greatly exaggerated some activities, to the point of listing an ongoing activity that was actually about 4 hours and not actually engaging with those seeking services but just having meetings with others who may or may not engage in helping others. I'm going to take issue with something like that but someone who did 4 hours/wk for 10 weeks and expected to do the same for the following 52 weeks.... but now realizes that it might not be every week for a year, not a big deal to me.
I have interviewed at least one candidate who greatly exaggerated some activities, to the point of listing an ongoing activity that was actually about 4 hours and not actually engaging with those seeking services but just having meetings with others who may or may not engage in helping others. I'm going to take issue with something like that but someone who did 4 hours/wk for 10 weeks and expected to do the same for the following 52 weeks.... but now realizes that it might not be every week for a year, not a big deal to me.
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So you had 40 hours from August 2020 to May/June 2021? So around 4 hours a month? Luckily you didn’t mention the 40 hours but 200 hours in 22 months isn’t very impressive either especially since about 12 of those months are projected and you only have 200 projected for the whole time frame! You really need to fulfill your commitment/projection! If you loved the activity enough to make it one of your most meaningful, why can’t you get the hours done?
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I hope the description of your experience is solid because those hours are a bit too low but can definitely be compensated with a good writing skill.
I understand that the hours I have now are low, but I do feel like the experience was very memorable. It was basically my first exposure to a hospital. I can remember each experience I had with the amazing staff and patients. I even have anecdotes I told on my PS and on the activities section that I can deeply reflect on.
The biggest thing I’m worried about is my plans of volunteering throughout my last semesters falling through for whatever reason. I also understand that med schools verify this type of information and I have a fear that this will destroy my future in medicine. I will admit that I was ignorant when I first submitted my application. I was a bit optimistic on my future hours and didn’t think of how whatever I put on this is set in stone.
The biggest thing I’m worried about is my plans of volunteering throughout my last semesters falling through for whatever reason. I also understand that med schools verify this type of information and I have a fear that this will destroy my future in medicine. I will admit that I was ignorant when I first submitted my application. I was a bit optimistic on my future hours and didn’t think of how whatever I put on this is set in stone.
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As you should be able to see from the adcom responses, this is VERY unlikely to destroy anything, so please calm down! Yes, you should have broken out completed and projected hours, but you didn't.
"Stone" is a bit melodramatic, and @LizzyM apparently wouldn't care, but many others would if turned out only 50 of your 200 claimed hours were ultimately served, and you never updated your application to reflect that. 150 hours isn't the end of the world in the scheme of things, but exaggerating an EC by 400% would definitely rub some folks the wrong way if it was discovered during due diligence after you enrolled.
I don't think this is a huge deal one way or the other, but I'd either make sure I got the 200 hours in, OR I'd update my application to reflect the fact that however many hours you have completed are completed, and your projection has changed from 160 to whatever, even zero. Most adcoms won't care, and those that do are most likely the ones you might have a problem with if you say nothing, fall 50% or more short of your claimed hours, and then get discovered next year. JMHO, but why put yourself in the position of having to worry about this when it's so easy to fix?
How would you recommend updating my application? Should I send an email to every school or bring it up at an interview? Also, when they verify these things with my contact do they ask specifically how many hours I completed or just if I actually volunteered there?
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It varies by school. A lot of schools won't check at all. Those that do will usually contact the volunteer coordinator, who will usually confirm dates and hours. Every place doesn't keep such great records, but many places catering to premeds do. Hospitals usually do track hours, and they almost always have a dedicated volunteer coordinator, so you're smart to get in front of this if you are not going to complete the hours.
As far as the update goes, I would try not to bring attention to it. Some schools won't take updates at all, so don't worry about them unless you receive an interview. In fact, I could say this about any school, since, if you don't receive an II, it will be a non-issue!
If you really want to get in front of it, a few sentences uploaded to the update section of their secondary portal should do the trick. Ideally, you'll have something substantial and positive to go along with it.Again, it's not a huge deal. You just don't want to possibility of something stupid like this biting you in the butt at the 11th hour next spring or summer.
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Just keep swimming.... don't update the schools; they really don't care that much about it. And stop with the "what ifs...." Do what you can each day and don't let anxiety about what might happen in the future get to you.
Just as an aside, does anyone have first hand knowledge of someone getting an offer of admission pulled for anything related to the work & activities section of the application? Just curious.
Just as an aside, does anyone have first hand knowledge of someone getting an offer of admission pulled for anything related to the work & activities section of the application? Just curious.
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Why don’t you just do the hours if you are so obsessed with this issue. You need 160 hours over 9-10 months. That’s less than 20 hours a month. Or if it is going to drive you nuts for the next 10 months just tell the schools you over estimated. But really there isn’t anything you can do now. But you really should calm down. It’s going to be a really long year otherwise.
Why did you say you were going to get 200 hours when it seems pretty clear you weren’t going to get near that? I mean you only accrued 40 hours over 10 months to begin with.
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I agree with @LizzyM . The lessons and reflections gained are more important than the hours spent. When reviewing an application, I am looking for evidence of these meaningful interactions. The "most meaningful" activities can come from short but intense experiences that were formative for an applicant.
Taking a step back from the OP's question, when reviewing the entire application, I also look at the total time spent (across all activities) to see the span of one's premedical journey. Someone whose interest in medicine was sparked, tested, and confirmed through hundreds of hours of experiences (if not much more) across multiple activities and years is more compelling than a more modest application in which the decision to pursue medicine hinged on just a 100 hours of experiences collected in the year leading up to their application.
I personally am wary of those who are willing to commit 6 figures and a minimum of 7 years of their life based off of relatively scant career exploration, no matter how formative their limited experiences may have been. Of course, some have proven me wrong. Just my thoughts.
Taking a step back from the OP's question, when reviewing the entire application, I also look at the total time spent (across all activities) to see the span of one's premedical journey. Someone whose interest in medicine was sparked, tested, and confirmed through hundreds of hours of experiences (if not much more) across multiple activities and years is more compelling than a more modest application in which the decision to pursue medicine hinged on just a 100 hours of experiences collected in the year leading up to their application.
I personally am wary of those who are willing to commit 6 figures and a minimum of 7 years of their life based off of relatively scant career exploration, no matter how formative their limited experiences may have been. Of course, some have proven me wrong. Just my thoughts.
I agree, the OP should just leave this alone and continue on with their activities as best as they can. Sometimes, the outcome only gets worse with more interventions.. Exhibit A:
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Dunno. @gonnif is usually the one who knows of instances of things coming up during due diligence that derail applicants.
OTOH, if what you are suggesting is true, then the rest of us can basically claim any amount of hours we want for ECs within reason, because nobody checks, and nobody cares if they do happen to check. That will be a huge relief to all the fudgers going forward who think 200 looks a lot better than 40.
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Dunno. @gonnif is usually the one who knows of instances of things coming up during due diligence that derail applicants.
OTOH, if what you are suggesting is true, then the rest of us can basically claim any amount of hours we want for ECs within reason, because nobody checks, and nobody cares if they do happen to check. That will be a huge relief to all the fudgers going forward who think 200 looks a lot better than 40.
You can fudge until you get caught.... like I caught someone who was candid during the interview about the activities that turned out to be inconvenient in terms of timing and therefore happened without her.
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Yup. I think it's a dangerous game to play, given how unimportant each individual activity is to the entire narrative that becomes the application, and given the potential consequences of getting caught.
In OP's case, for example, multiple adcoms have opined that 40 impactful hours would have been sufficient for that one activity. OP seemingly felt compelled to claim more, and not clarify that 75% of the claimed hours were projected, even though the activity stretched back a year and forward 10 months, which strongly implied (probably intentionally) that over half the hours had already been completed.
He is now having serious second thoughts, since he seems to be more concerned with the consequences of getting caught than with how to just complete the hours, with no elegant way out. Totally unnecessary, and totally avoidable.
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But right now just a problem in his mind. Knock out those hours over the next 10 months and sleep well every night. Don't fret about what might happen if something that is in your power to do might not get done.
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Exactly. Just do the hours. And be happy and worry free.(At least in this area.)
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It doesn't really work that way, particularly if something comes up that could not have been foreseen and was beyond your control. Get the hours and, meanwhile, STOP worrying about what might happen.
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THIS^^^^^. You'll never be "blackballed" by AAMC over something like this. It gathered your information and transmitted it to the schools. It is done with you.
It will be an individual school that either will or won't verify your activities, including your hours, and either will or won't take action upon discovering discrepancies. Just make sure you complete the hours and you'll have absolutely nothing to worry about.
In the future, clearly identify what is done and what is projected. If you had done that here, you'd already be fine, since a TON of people don't complete projected hours. Schools know this and, as a result, don't give them a lot of weight.
