How to Answer Inappropriate Questions with Class During Residency Interview?

[Mass Effect]

If it guarantees that the misconduct case gets thrown out, you bet your ass they will.

Getting thrown out of court means nothing these days. The damage will be done regardless. Welcome to 2019.

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[WisNeuro]

Getting thrown out of court means nothing these days. The damage will be done regardless. Welcome to 2019.

It means everything. People forget things pretty easily, even if the person got fired, they'd easily find a job elsewhere. Welcome to 2019, indeed.

 

[Mass Effect]

It means everything. People forget things pretty easily, even if the person got fired, they'd easily find a job elsewhere. Welcome to 2019, indeed.

Where would you "easily" find a job as a program director if you were outed for misconduct with audio evidence? As a physician, sure, but not in a PD role. It would take some time for that.

 

[WisNeuro]

Where would you "easily" find a job as a program director if you were outed for misconduct with audio evidence? As a physician, sure, but not in a PD role. It would take some time for that.

If it's not a art of your permanent record, easily.

 

[Mass Effect]

If it's not a art of your permanent record, easily.

Yeah, Matt Lauer and Charlie Rose easily got other jobs.

 

[WisNeuro]

Yeah, Matt Lauer and Charlie Rose easily got other jobs.

Apples, oranges, shoes.

 

[Mass Effect]

Apples, oranges, shoes.

Not really. You don't have to be a celebrity for your reputation to be destroyed online and in academic medicine, reputation is everything.

 

[WisNeuro]

Not really. You don't have to be a celebrity for your reputation to be destroyed online and in academic medicine, reputation is everything.

First, way different transgressions. Second, doesn't matter as much as you think.

 

[Mass Effect]

First, way different transgressions. Second, doesn't matter as much as you think.

Ok, if you say so. Moving on.

 

[WisNeuro]

Ok, if you say so. Moving on.

Indeed I do. Good day sir/madam.

 

[dl2dp2]

Ok, if you say so. Moving on.

Having been somewhat involved/privy to investigations of this type, I can tell you that generally speaking this is not how it works. No "hell" will be raised since complaints of this type happens on such a frequent basis, there's usually a fairly elaborate standard operating procedure that deals with this. Institutions are not particularly inclined to "save" one person, which is why Matt Lauer got thrown under the bus once X Y and Z transpire, and certainly any particular associate program director will get thrown under the bus if the circumstances are right. That doesn't mean, however, that the "victim" would be justly compensated, or that the institution wouldn't negotiate tooth and nail to get away with as little as possible. These two things tend to happen simultaneously because they are part of the machinery that deals with this.

One might strategically threaten or proceed with a lawsuit (typically after unsuccessful internal investigation results/negotiations via professionals), but it's done 1) under the advisory of experienced litigators; 2) part of a drawn out process put yourself in a better position of negotiation. You NEVER haphazardly do stuff to "raise hell" for the heck of it, even if perhaps if you ever manage mass media you want to create an impassioned impression. Hope this makes sense. In this world, if you don't know the game you are being played.

Professional regulation bodies investigations have limits. ACGME tends to be very slow in investigation, similar to state medical boards. Generally speaking, if improprieties occur during interview in an application cycle (or at any point, really, during someone's life), it needs to be expediently reported to institutions and lawyers need to be retained if you care about matching at the program (either because it's a top choice or because it may be the only choice). Professional counsel needs to be retained immediately and negotiations need to start very quickly or you'll miss the rank match deadline. If you are not matched because of improperity generally it's much harder to have someone to take you back.

It's surprising to me few people here know how any of this works.

 

[Mass Effect]

Institutions are not particularly inclined to "save" one person, which is why Matt Lauer got thrown under the bus once X Y and Z transpire, and certainly any particular associate program director will get thrown under the bus if the circumstances are right. That doesn't mean, however, that the "victim" would be justly compensated, or that the institution wouldn't negotiate tooth and nail to get away with as little as possible.

But that isn't what I'm saying. I'm not talking about compensation for the "victim" or consequences for the institution. I'm talking strictly about the damage that can be done to one's reputation without setting foot in court. For better or worse, this is the world we live in, as evident by the movements I referenced above. In fact, #timesupmedicine was specifically created to address this type of thing in medicine. Audio recordings of someone asking such questions during a job interview, posted under that hashtag, would absolutely be noticed and I find it hard to believe there would be no consequences for the individual in question.

But we'll never know in this case. To each his own.

 

[MedMan80]

It's interesting that such questions are posed such point blank. During my IV trail I did have some inappropriate questions including "what other programs did you interview at?". My most inappropriate interview however was a psychodynamically oriented one, and ended up prodding where I felt it was not relevant at all, about my childhood and personal life. In the end, questions like this, especially if from PD should be a reflection of how one will be treated at a given program. Best to answer it as appropriately as one can (given you're an IMG with a fail) and figure out how to rank them afterwards.

 

[Mass Effect]

My most inappropriate interview however was a psychodynamically oriented one, and ended up prodding where I felt it was not relevant at all, about my childhood and personal life

Syracuse?

 

[Merovinge]

It's interesting that such questions are posed such point blank. During my IV trail I did have some inappropriate questions including "what other programs did you interview at?". My most inappropriate interview however was a psychodynamically oriented one, and ended up prodding where I felt it was not relevant at all, about my childhood and personal life. In the end, questions like this, especially if from PD should be a reflection of how one will be treated at a given program. Best to answer it as appropriately as one can (given you're an IMG with a fail) and figure out how to rank them afterwards.

Yup 90% of psychiatric interviews are so much more reasonable/fluid that other fields (cough ortho cough), leaving 10% of dynamically oriented interviews that are inappropriate at best. No one matching into medicine gets asked about the role their parents had on their childhood, that's for sure.

 

[MedMan80]

Syracuse?

Bingo, i felt they were prodding/screening for any major character pathology or other issues, to have a seasoned psychotherapist take a swing at a fresh medical student was a bit heavy..

 

[deleted736562]

I think there are a lot of ethical concerns with recording someone without knowing. Frankly, that's not too far behind asking inappropriate interview questions.

Bingo, i felt they were prodding/screening for any major character pathology or other issues, to have a seasoned psychotherapist take a swing at a fresh medical student was a bit heavy..

I had that too at another program. It's like they were trying to fish for "personality pathology" based on childhood experiences or whatever. Quite narcissistic on the part of the interviewer, if I want to play that game.

 

[Mass Effect]

Bingo, i felt they were prodding/screening for any major character pathology or other issues, to have a seasoned psychotherapist take a swing at a fresh medical student was a bit heavy..

And it could be potentially damaging if someone with a trauma history walks through the door. That's one that I wish I had reported in terms of inappropriate interview questions. I ended up not ranking them and received one of those emails after Match Day asking why. I ignored it. I wish now that I had replied and told them exactly what I thought of the interview.

I think there are a lot of ethical concerns with recording someone without knowing. Frankly, that's not too far behind asking inappropriate interview questions

Meh, it's questionable, but nowhere near the same as the questions the OP cited. I have no problem outing someone who asked such questions, just as I have no problem reporting sexual harassment and bullying, especially when I have proof.

 

[MedMan80]

And it could be potentially damaging if someone with a trauma history walks through the door. That's one that I wish I had reported in terms of inappropriate interview questions. I ended up not ranking them and received one of those emails after Match Day asking why. I ignored it. I wish now that I had replied and told them exactly what I thought of the interview.



Meh, it's questionable, but nowhere near the same as the questions the OP cited. I have no problem outing someone who asked such questions, just as I have no problem reporting sexual harassment and bullying, especially when I have proof.

Absolutely, I thought about reporting them as well. There's no reason why an applicant needs to take a role as a patient during an interview, it's just not fair. Hopefully this post can give applicants the heads up about the program if they are indeed continuing the same practice.

 

[Mass Effect]

He didn't say as program director (and the person was not a PD but an aPD), but in general being fired is the best thing that can ever happen to a physician. Usually physicians who get fired/terminated find a much better job. I know of many striking examples of ethical and professional misconduct that is rewarded with a better job elsewhere. The higher up the food chain you are, the more likely you are to succeed and be rewarded for your failures.

As I said, yes, he'll get a job as a physician. I don't believe he'll get a job as a PD or aPD.

 

[lyla]

OP sounds like they’re trying to kind of rationalize (or maybe maturely defend against) the abuse they got.

Make no mistake. It was wrong what the aPD asked you. Totally crossed the line there.

 

[SeniorWrangler]

This is classic abusive behavior, you say or do something inappropriate, see how they respond, and if they freeze up and smile then you go a little farther.

 

[Armadillos]

Bingo, i felt they were prodding/screening for any major character pathology or other issues, to have a seasoned psychotherapist take a swing at a fresh medical student was a bit heavy..

Lol, had similar case of getting asked what seemed like a lot about childhood at a Boston program. Fine for me as I was lucky enough to have uneventful life.

Interviewer was a woman with a wedding ring, so when she asked who I admired as child, seemed the obvious answer was my Mom for balancing professional work with having kids. She seemed pretty pleased. Ended up not ranking highly bc didn’t want to move to Boston, so never know for sure how that answer went over lol. Seem to remember being solicited for feedback survey few months later about why I didn’t rank them higher, but that part could be my imagination as was awhile ago.

 

[tablets]

Oh my god. So inappropriate. So over the top. I'm so sorry that happened to you. I would have said this...I would look them in the eye and....OP, do you have your wiretapping equipment ready?

You weren't attacked. You were asked a question that is protected in hiring decisions. The program probably had a big issue with pregnancies reducing resident workforce in the past and has a huge incentive to know the answer to said question. As someone said earlier, the "gotcha" mentality is a little unbearable.

To be clear, I'm not discouraging anyone from reporting it. Though one should remember the professional ramifications of MeToo. Surverys showed some professionals in some industries became less likely to have female mentees, meet with females one on one, or even hire females. If a program has had a big "problem" with pregnancies in the past and gets reminded they can't use it in their hiring decision, then they're going to fix the "problem" by simply being less likely to select females at all. The protesting, campaigning, and wiretapping by everyone in this thread is not going to change that reality.

 

[SeniorWrangler]

Asking someone if they’d have an abortion if they got pregnant during residency is nuts. I don’t see what this has to do with #MeToo.