How to AOA when P/F?

[dr barb]

I've heard a lot about the importance of AOA status for competitive residencies. Can anyone fill me in on how it works, especially when you're in a program that is pass/fail? Do they just wait and rank you based on third year performance or is there some underground kind of ranking system going on that will determine who is nominated for AOA?

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[Brewster]

My school ignores preclinical grades and bases AOA decisions on step I score and third year clerkship grades (which are H/HP/P/LP/F). Different schools will do it a bit differently.

 

[8744]

Also, don't forget that "No AOA is OK."

 

[pathstudent]

Most schools have two tiers of AOA.

Junior AOA based solely on Step 1 and academics of the first two years (the most prestigious to get into).

and Senior AOA which is a little more subjective but still requires good grades and good clinical performance in the third year.

A few schools just have one induction into AOA as the above post infers.

and a very few schools have no AOA for "idealistic reasons".

If your school has Junior AOA. Gun for it by working as hard as you can. It guarantees you interviews for any residency at any location.

Iserson says PDs rank Junior AOAs from average school far higher than average students from the best schools. (ie, junior AOA and a kick ass Step 1 score is the ultimate trump for getting interviews, after that, it is up to your LORs and your personality in the interview.)

 

[pathstudent]

If your school has a P/F system. They must keep track of class rank somehow as residency programs do care about that. Perhaps they do it based on cummulative test averages. Ask your administrators how you students are ranked. It is a reasonable question.

 

[Jalby]

Originally posted by pathstudent
Most schools have two tiers of AOA.

Junior AOA based solely on Step 1 and academics of the first two years (the most prestigious to get into).

That nails it at my school. Also, a lot of schools are very sneaky about calling themselves a pass/fail but still using those grades for AOA. Everyschool on this coast (excpet UCSF (welcome Souljah)) and most of the Pass Fail schools do have a ranking for the first two years for AOA only.

 

[souljah1]

Jalby,

Thanks Glad to see I'm not the only MS1 forever procrastinating on this damn website. Hope you get on that junior AOA.

Peace.

 

[Jalby]

Originally posted by souljah1
Jalby,

Thanks Glad to see I'm not the only MS1 forever procrastinating on this damn website. Hope you get on that junior AOA.

Peace.

Lol. I don't think I'll get junior AOA. Right now, I'm in line for the other one, though. One really good thing about my school is that thye mostly select it based on outside activities if you are in the top 25%.

 

[Brewster]

Junior AOA at my school is determined by step I score and grades for your first 3 (of 5) third year clerkships. Senior AOA is based on step I score and grades on all 5 third year clerkships.

 

[Lara]

Temple has AOA but the selection and timing is a mystery to me. 😛 If anyone (kcrd, Scrubbs?) happens to know I'd be interested, since I wonder how much weight is given to first year compared to second, assuming they're both factored in...and if board scores count at all.

 

[jay c]

hi,

i'm a temple grad class of 1999, and was junior AOA. junior AOA at temple is limited to 5 people, and is done exclusively via grades in first 2 years.

also, for those people that wonder about AOA with P/F, ALL SCHOOLS, AND I MEAN, ALL SCHOOLS, will keep a ranking all 4 years. they just won't tell you. i know this because i was on an internal medicine residency admissions committee at a prestigious hospital in boston, and even those schools without AOA will report the rankings of the candidates.

j

 

[birdie]

Originally posted by pathstudent
If your school has Junior AOA. Gun for it by working as hard as you can. It guarantees you interviews for any residency at any location.

Really? Wow! 😱

 

[Brewster]

Originally posted by birdie
Really? Wow! 😱

Pathstudent's statement is a bit of an exaggeration, but there is no denying the AOA helps and that junior AOA help even more.

 

[WakeMedHeel]

Yes, gun it hard, get junior AOA and you too can be a doctor that brags about your board scores.

 

[Careofme]

Jay C,

How did the Boston Internal Medicine residency view DO applications - both in general and related to AOA (ie. since we don't have AOA; instead, we have SSPhi)?

Any information would be much appreciated!

Thanks.

care


p.s. "AOA"....hmm...does that mean American Osteopathic Association.....j/k 😀

 

[jay c]

hi,

unfortunately, the internal medicine program i was at did not take DO applicants or foreign medical graduates, so i would not know. from an MD standpoint, i would say all, or almost all, candidates were AOA, and most were junior AOA.