How to Apply for HPSP

[JanikeyDoc]

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Does anyone know to to apply for the HPSP with the military? I was wondering about this and how hard it would be to get a scholarship this way.

 

[schrizto]

Military medicine forum has lots of information. Go onto the Army/Navy/AF websites and register to talk to a recruiter. From what I have heard they don't give out all of the available scholarships every year.

 

[droogdoc]

Does anyone know to to apply for the HPSP with the military? I was wondering about this and how hard it would be to get a scholarship this way.

It is very easy to apply. Go on the website for the branch you want to go in to and find a link for the health professions. You should find something for "Find a Recruiter" and will give you info about the recruiter in your area and their contact info, but it will be specifically for an HPSP recuriter. The earlier you start the better. The first decision board meets in January.

Basically contact him/her, and they will walk you through it...step by step and they do most of the work for you. You just need to fill out some paperwork, get a couple of LORs (which you should already have for med school), and take a physical.

It isn't really "competitive" but the earlier you do it the better, as there can be a large number of people applying. If you are competitive for med school, you are competitive for the HPSP. I used to be in the military and actually started the process of doing this but changed my mind & I am not doing it now. It isnt like applying for an enlisted job. The recruiters who do HPSP have been recruiters for a while, and have to be selected for HPSP assignment, and are pretty professional and informed about the process.

PM me if you have any other questions. Like I said, I know about the process, but have currently dropped from the process because I simply changed my mind.

 

[jkmph]

Does anyone know to to apply for the HPSP with the military? I was wondering about this and how hard it would be to get a scholarship this way.

Think long and hard about this decision. I am/was very close to signing an HPSP contract. The more I think about it the more I find myself willing to accept the debt load and avoid the heavy disincentives of being an MO in the US Armed Forces.

 

[HPSPDO]

Think long and hard about this decision. I am/was very close to signing an HPSP contract. The more I think about it the more I find myself willing to accept the debt load and avoid the heavy disincentives of being an MO in the US Armed Forces.

I'm also applying for HPSP through the Army. I'm already a commissioned 2LT but I have done my homework comparing civilian pay with military pay. The Army in particular has been having retention issues with physicians (and other health professionals for that matter) so they now offer some very nice incentives military-wide. Here's my math comparing net incomes of civilian and HPSP DOs 8 years out of medical school:


Civilian D.O.

Average private medical student indebtedness (2008): $173,300
(source: http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/medschool/finaid/indebt.php)

Interest on $173,300 after 10 years at 10% annually: $101,520
(source: http://studentlendinganalytics.typepad.com/student_lending_analytics/2008/11/what-is-the-average-interest-rate-on-a-private-student-loan-today.html)

Osteopathic resident salary (2006): $42,100 (all taxable)
(source: http://www.salarylist.com/all-osteopathic-medical-resident-real-jobs-salary.htm)
Average D.O. salary (family medicine, 2008): $175,000 roughly (all taxable)
(source: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/40/physician.pdf)

Net income from beginning of medical school to 8 years after graduating:

(175000 X 6) + (42100 X 2) - 173300 - 101520 = $859,380 ($859,380 taxable)



Military HPSP D.O.

Indebtedness: $0

HPSP Stipend: $1992/month ($23,904/year) (minus taxes)
(source: http://www.med.navy.mil/sites/navmedmpte/accessions/Pages/StipendandBonus.aspx)


Critical Skills Accession Bonus (CSAB): $20,000 (minus taxes)
(The CSAB is a $20,000.00, taxable, one time, incentive bonus paid to medical and dental HPSP signees.)
(source: http://www.med.navy.mil/sites/navmedmpte/accessions/Pages/StipendandBonus.aspx)

0-3 (Captain) base pay and allowances with 1 dependent: $69,801 (minus taxes) (only $23,783 is taxable)
0-4 (Major) base pay and allowances with 2 dependents and 4 years of service: $90,883 (minus taxes) (only $38,151 is taxable)
(HPSP students enter service as Captains.)
(sources: http://www.militarygme.org/1.html, http://www.defenselink.mil/militarypay/mpcalcs/Calculators/RMC.aspx)

Incentive Special Pay (family practice): $13,000/year (up to $50,000/year for some specialties)
(source: http://www.militarygme.org/resources/2008MilitaryPayCharts35.pdf)

Medical/Dental/Vision Insurance and co-pays: $0

Variable Special Pay:
· Intern: $100/month ($1200/year)
· Years 3-8: $583/month ($6996/year)
(source: http://www.militarygme.org/resources/2008MilitaryPayCharts35.pdf)

Board Certified Special Pay: $208/month ($2496/year)
(source: http://www.militarygme.org/resources/2008MilitaryPayCharts35.pdf)

Multiyear Retention Bonus (MRB) 4-year: $22,620
(source: http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:2sq2c5sF8UEJcp.psc.gov/eCCIS/documents/PPM09_004.pdf+retention+bonuses+medical+officers+2009&hl=en&gl=us)

Net income of an HPSP grad from beginning of med school to 8 years after graduation, assuming promotion to Major after 4 years active duty:

(23904 X 4) + 20000 + (69801 X 4) + (90883 X 4) + (13000 X 6) + (1200 X 2) + (6996 X 6) + (2496 X 6) + 22620 = $918,324($523,324 taxable)


Several of the HPSP figures are minimums and get a lot bigger as you specialize.

On top of the financial incentives, you get a lot of respect as a military physician. You are both an officer and a physician. You also get free medical, dental, and vision for you and your family with zero co-pays. Not to mention you are putting yourself in harm’s way to help others who are in harm’s way, which is at least a 2X karma multiplier.

Other benefits:

· No malpractice insurance
· Paid trips to professional conferences
· Opportunities for advanced training without taking a pay cut
· Humanitarian missions
· Not paying for board exams
· Not worrying about whether or not you patient can pay for a procedure that they need
· The best patient population in the world

If you have more questions about HPSP let me know, I talk to the Army health-care recruiters a lot.

 

[n618ft]

Where do you get 10% interest for 10 years? Ten percent, really!? The higher your interest, the more aggressive you need to be at paying it back. If you're making over 100k a year, shouldn't you try to knock that debt out a lot faster instead of getting fancy cars? HPSP = FAIL for specializing because you've got a decent chance at not being able to do the residency you want. Look into it. There's a lot better options if you want to do the military. If you just want to be A physician and not too worried about potentially being away from loved ones for some period of time, it's a GREAT deal. Also, if you want to specialize, consider joining after you match.

 

[HPSPDO]

Where do you get 10% interest for 10 years? Ten percent, really!? The higher your interest, the more aggressive you need to be at paying it back. If you're making over 100k a year, shouldn't you try to knock that debt out a lot faster instead of getting fancy cars? HPSP = FAIL for specializing because you've got a decent chance at not being able to do the residency you want. Look into it. There's a lot better options if you want to do the military. If you just want to be A physician and not too worried about potentially being away from loved ones for some period of time, it's a GREAT deal. Also, if you want to specialize, consider joining after you match.

Here's where I got 10%: http://studentlendinganalytics.type...est-rate-on-a-private-student-loan-today.html

That's actually less than average if you look at the range of interest rates for private loans they have listed.

But just for argument's sake, say you get a 2% interest rate and pay it all back in 5 years. I'll redo my math:

Civilian D.O.

Average private medical student indebtedness (2008): $173,300
(source: http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/medschool/finaid/indebt.php)

Interest on $173,300 after 5 years at 2% annually: $8,953
(source: http://studentlendinganalytics.typepad.com/student_lending_analytics/2008/11/what-is-the-average-interest-rate-on-a-private-student-loan-today.html)

Osteopathic resident salary (2006): $42,100 (all taxable)
(source: http://www.salarylist.com/all-osteopathic-medical-resident-real-jobs-salary.htm)
Average D.O. salary (family medicine, 2008): $175,000 roughly (all taxable)
(source: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/40/physician.pdf)

Net income from beginning of medical school to 8 years after graduating:

(175000 X 6) + (42100 X 2) - 173300 - 8953 = $951,947($951,947 taxable)



Military HPSP D.O.

Indebtedness: $0

HPSP Stipend: $1992/month ($23,904/year) (minus taxes)
(source: http://www.med.navy.mil/sites/navmedmpte/accessions/Pages/StipendandBonus.aspx)


Critical Skills Accession Bonus (CSAB): $20,000 (minus taxes)
(The CSAB is a $20,000.00, taxable, one time, incentive bonus paid to medical and dental HPSP signees.)
(source: http://www.med.navy.mil/sites/navmedmpte/accessions/Pages/StipendandBonus.aspx)

0-3 (Captain) base pay and allowances with 1 dependent: $69,801 (minus taxes) (only $23,783 is taxable)
0-4 (Major) base pay and allowances with 2 dependents and 4 years of service: $90,883 (minus taxes) (only $38,151 is taxable)
(HPSP students enter service as Captains.)
(sources: http://www.militarygme.org/1.html, http://www.defenselink.mil/militarypay/mpcalcs/Calculators/RMC.aspx)

Incentive Special Pay (family practice): $13,000/year (up to $50,000/year for some specialties)
(source: http://www.militarygme.org/resources/2008MilitaryPayCharts35.pdf)

Medical/Dental/Vision Insurance and co-pays: $0

Variable Special Pay:
· Intern: $100/month ($1200/year)
· Years 3-8: $583/month ($6996/year)
(source: http://www.militarygme.org/resources/2008MilitaryPayCharts35.pdf)

Board Certified Special Pay: $208/month ($2496/year)
(source: http://www.militarygme.org/resources/2008MilitaryPayCharts35.pdf)

Multiyear Retention Bonus (MRB) 4-year: $22,620
(source: http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:2sq2c5sF8UEJcp.psc.gov/eCCIS/documents/PPM09_004.pdf+retention+bonuses+medical+officers+2009&hl=en&gl=us)

Net income of an HPSP grad from beginning of med school to 8 years after graduation, assuming promotion to Major after 4 years active duty:

(23904 X 4) + 20000 + (69801 X 4) + (90883 X 4) + (13000 X 6) + (1200 X 2) + (6996 X 6) + (2496 X 6) + 22620 = $918,324($523,324 taxable)


When you consider that all of the $951,947 civilian net income is taxable, while only $523,324 of the HPSP student's net income is taxable, the HPSP route is still in the lead financially.

As for your claim that it is more difficult for HPSP students to specialize, that is the first I've heard of it. What is your source? The numbers I listed for special incentive pays in my math above are the minimum rates... if you specialize you can make way more than that, check out the sources that I cited (for all of my data, by the way). The military needs specialists just as much as the civilian hospitals, if not more, so I find it hard to believe that they would allow their medical students to be thrown under the bus.

I don't want to give the impression that I'm some kind of recruiter, I'm just a recently commissioned ROTC graduate applying to D.O. schools and HPSP. I am interested to hear about any other routes through medical school that are as attractive as the HPSP, however. I've looked around and wasn't able to find anything. I have a brother and a sister currently on ROTC scholarships on their way into the Army medical field and another brother enlisted as a combat medic. They will probably all be looking into medical schools some day so I would like to know what to recommend to them.

I've looked around the SDN threads and seen plenty of people argue that HPSP is a bad route to go for one reason or another, but I've never seen anyone actually able to back it up with facts like I've done here.


TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,


And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.


I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I
—I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

- Robert Frost

 

[Charlie0318]

I think the numbers listed in this second post are closer to they way it actually shakes down. HPSP still comes out ahead, but not by a ridiculous amount.

What it really boils down to though is that if you are not prepared for military life no amount of monetary gain will make the HPSP worthwhile. You have to understand the fact that you will be committing to an organization with... administrative inefficiencies to put it nicely. Some people can handle that structure. Working within the confines of a command structure is not a problem. Others though cannot handle it.

If you are considering the scholarship you need to look inside yourself and be very honest about the kind of person you are and whether being a part of the military is really for you. Not the glamorous bull$hit you see in movies, but real honest to god military. A lot of people don't do this and end up very very unhappy because of it.

 

[droogdoc]

The poster above me is correct. There are many benefits, but as a former Army medic, and being on both ends of military medcicine, there are some very sad parts to it as wellwhen the govt gets involved. There is some SERIOUS rationing of care that exists, but it is by design and isn't for any type of evil reasons or something. It is unavoidable.

You dont keep healthcare costs down by skimping on healthcare for healthy people....they dont go to the doctor. Very ill and elderly people use the system the most. So, who will feel the effects of it the most? Can't cut costs while keeping services the same. Impossible.

This may have went a little off to one side but this type of thing is one of the problems I have with military medicine. But no system is perfect.

 

[jkmph]

I think the numbers listed in this second post are closer to they way it actually shakes down. HPSP still comes out ahead, but not by a ridiculous amount.

I like the posted numbers too. But don't ignore that many, many physicians earn a lot more than 175k in the civilian world. Also many bigger practices have loan forgiveness programs, retirement packages, moonlighting, etc, etc that can be built into the first equation to boost the civilian gross revenue.

For the OP you have to look past the money. If you're doing it only for the money you're making a mistake. You have to consider GMO tours, deployment and base assignment (especially if you want or have a family!), residency options and competitiveness, residency quality, skill atrophy, patient volume and acuity level. There are a lot of overt and covert drawbacks to being a military MD/DO. Make sure you are aware of them before you sign the dotted line.

 

[n618ft]

Not a big chance of GMO tours at all in the Army (~1%) but definitely might be limited on specializing... I've heard people that wanted to do pediatrics got forced into general surgery and people that wanted to do a competitive specialty got forced into IM, FM, or GS... I work with a guy that did HPSP a few years ago and luckily, he wanted FM and that's where they put him.

 

[tele turnin]

on another note, i'm not seeing the years as a resident in the hpsp route...or are you assuming 0-3 (captain) for those four years as your resident salary. iby doing a residency with the military you add years on to your MSO. But if that's what you want as a career why not look into the Uniformed Services University?

 

[HPSPDO]

Both routes assume a 2-year residency, don't ask me why I did that. If you make it 3 years for both routes, the HPSP route is even further ahead because the O-3 Captain is making over $69k (only $23,783 is taxable) versus the civilian resident who is making less than $50k (all taxable). My source for residency pay is http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/2005/10/residency-salaries.html . When I redo the math for 3-year residencies in both routes, HPSP is in the lead $888,836 ($507,828 taxable) compared to the civilian’s $819,047 (all taxable).

Specializing in the military is going to be like anything else in the military, there will be a limited number of spots available for each specialty because they have quotas to fill and budgets to balance. Here are the areas of specialization available: http://www.goarmy.com/amedd/medical/corps_specialties_requir.jsp . They usually base these things on merit, so if you want to specialize badly enough you can probably do it if you are proactive.

The Uniformed Services University is another way to go. That is a great deal both in terms of quality of education and financial support. Not only are your tuition and books paid for but you earn a salary the entire time you are there.

As for the military itself... don't even consider it unless you are resilient and can handle a lot of BS. It is a great experience (I grew up as an Army brat and was enlisted for 6 years), but some people just can't handle it. I've never seen as much comradery in the civilian world as I've seen in the military.

Family life in the Army can definitely be tough if you are not prepared. There is a high divorce rate. My parents, on the other hand, have been married since 1978, and my dad has been in the Army since 1973. The Army has paid for his undergrad (Biology) and degree in veterinary medicine from Purdue, Masters in Public Health from Harvard, PhD in Toxicology from Duke, and all kinds of professional military schools. My mom is tough and raised the 5 of us kids when he was away during deployments and various schools and conferences.

Like Charlie0318 said, it's not the glamorous life you see in the movies and definitely not for the faint of heart. If you're looking for job satisfaction and decent pay, however, I can't think of much else that would compare.

 

[n618ft]

There's fewer spots per applicant in the military for most higher-paying specialties. Furthermore, interest is tax-deductible 😀. I'm doing the ARNG route instead of HPSP, so take my opinion with a grain of salt 😀

 

[NAVYLABTECH08]

I think the Military payback time is reatly underestimated in this post. For instance, when you eventually fo match and start residency, each year of that residency training adds another years of military commitment. Also, what about intern year for DO calculation. Last time I checked, FP was a 3 year program and not 2. Time is very important when comparing military vs civilian pay. This means that extra 3-4 years that you serve for doing that residency at 75-85k vs 3-4 yrs at 175k. You only get farther behind the more specialized you get in the military. Poor neurosurgeons in the military making <100k a year and stuck in a ridiculous 4yr +7 yr = 11 year time payback.

Military: 11 x 90k = around 990,000 (taxable)
VS
Civilian: 11 x 330k = 3.6 million (taxable)

Conclusion: This is really not even close if you compare things from a money standpoint. This scholarship is a good option is you have a family to support while going though school. Also, who can live on 1900 a month(taxable) with a family. Unless you want to work part time while in med school, I think you better get a small loan hear and there to fill in the gap. that even makes the money differences favor against the scholarship. The 20k bonus is nice, I have to admit. For furure HPSPers, There is the option to moonlight to make so dough on the side but I thought the reason we all went into medicine was to work 1 job, not 2-3. Also, moonlighting may be hard if your military commitment has you on a ship in the middle of the ocean. Hard for a civilian hospital to schedule you when you are gone 3-4 months at a time or overseas for 1 yr or so. Another negative is that military docs, especilly surgeons, face more obstacles to getting a job. They get lowballed becasue surgeons in the miltiary are viewed as not having the same "sharp" skills as a regular surgeon. there are some good residency programs in the military match, but some are garbage. Obvious trauma surgery, infectious dieseae, etc. are great. In My opiion, I would strongly suggest FAP over HPSP. I would do the National Guard program over HPSP becasue you can still resume a normal civilian life unless it is your weekend or week to play soldier. JMO!

 

[spicedmanna]

I think the Military payback time is reatly underestimated in this post. For instance, when you eventually fo match and start residency, each year of that residency training adds another years of military commitment. Also, what about intern year for DO calculation. Last time I checked, FP was a 3 year program and not 2. Time is very important when comparing military vs civilian pay. This means that extra 3-4 years that you serve for doing that residency at 75-85k vs 3-4 yrs at 175k. You only get farther behind the more specialized you get in the military. Poor neurosurgeons in the military making <100k a year and stuck in a ridiculous 4yr +7 yr = 11 year time payback.

Check this out from the HPSP FAQ (Military Medicine Forum):

3. What is the payback?

One year of service per year of scholarship received. Military residencies do count as payback HOWEVER, you also accrue one year of payback for each year of residency after your FYGME year. In other words you can complete one extra year of residency past your level of commitment without incurring more time. (4 year scholarship recipients can do 5 years of post grad training without accruing more time)

In most cases one must complete their internship (FYGME in military lingo) year with the military

One must apply to military residencies and if selected must take that residency. If one is not available in your field or you are not selected you will be deferred to a civilian residency.

The bold emphasis is mine.

The complete HPSP FAQ is here:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=118576

 

[PeterDO2B]

I think NAVY FAP is a far better option than HPSP. You complete a civilian residency of your choice rather than have the military choose for you. I believe the Air Force and Army have a similar program.

 

[freubr]

There's fewer spots per applicant in the military for most higher-paying specialties. Furthermore, interest is tax-deductible 😀. I'm doing the ARNG route instead of HPSP, so take my opinion with a grain of salt 😀

Student loan interest from Med school is not tax-deductible

http://taxes.about.com/od/deductionscredits/qt/studentloanint.htm

I am Navy HPSP, if anyone has questions or wants to get more info let me know, I can help you out or help you find someone who can give you more info. It is an important decision and you should have all the info possible to make the most informed decision. Send me a PM.

 

[freubr]

I think NAVY FAP is a far better option than HPSP. You complete a civilian residency of your choice rather than have the military choose for you. I believe the Air Force and Army have a similar program.

Navy FAP is a good option in that it ensures you will do a civilian residency. To be honest though, I don't see the point in not taking the HPSP scholarship if you plan on going into the military anyway. You might as well just stay in civilian world than do FAP because although the financial benefit during residency is pretty good, you will make considerably less in the 3 or 4 yrs you pay back. HPSP is far better than FAP financially. Or, just do civilian medicine and don't join the military.
And the military doesn't "choose" the field you enter, just as the civilian world does not "choose." It all comes down to getting accepted to a residency. Just as it is in the civilian world, it is very difficult to get into speciality residencies in the military. Most people I know decided to do their residencies after their payback if they chose to specialize. But if you know you want to specialize, you will probably lose a lot of money if you join the military, so it may be financially prudent not to join. Also, you may have to delay your training until after you pay it back as a GMO. Just my thoughts.