How to approach prereqs and GPA

[CrabHerdPeril]

Hi all,

I've been out of school for a while now and I'm trying to plot the best path to medical school. I have always worked adjacent to healthcare but I'd say I'm fairly untraditional, and am managing healthcare benefits at a fortune 50 company right now. Although I've taken some intro chemistry and biology courses as part of my UG about 7-9 years ago, I have not taken any of the other coursework at all (physics, microbiology, organic chemistry).

My GPA is low (3.25), but I'm highly capable at this stage in my life and scored 511 on the MCAT, 330 on the GRE, with very limited study time and while working a highly demanding job. I'm extremely confident I would be in the top 5% of any pre-med program despite my past academic mediocrity.

Right now the most attractive options seem to be post-bacc pre med programs that will offer me an accelerated path to completing the courses, but I'm really a bit naive about my chances and already had a couple applications to these programs denied because they do not review applicants who have already taken the MCAT. I'm a bit perplexed by this policy. (This wasn't explicit when I applied FYI)

I've considered completing the coursework at local schools but it would take 2+ years and I'd have to quit my job anyway, so I'd prefer to move to the best program I can get into rather than piecemeal something myself.

Does anyone else have any recommended strategies for my situation? I'm going full steam ahead with the post-bacc programs but I'm not feeling confident that I'll get into a decent one due to my GPA, and I"m not sure if it's worth going to a mediocre one...

I guess I'm not sure what my plan B should be. Should I try to take a few classes, do online coursework, shoot for a top 10% on the MCAT? What else should I consider given my strengths/weaknesses?

Any advice much appreciated!
Some background below

BS Psychology/Sociology 2011
GPA (3.25)

4+ years working in non-profit healthcare clinics serving low-income populations as a mental health case manager, skills group facilitator, counselor, and more.
2+ years working at a fortune 50 company in health communications and later corporate healthcare administration.
Lots of volunteer work, over the last couple years it's been math/science tutor for refugee children for about a 1.5 years, have had a couple committee seats for fundraisers, went on an international mission trip to Guatemala, etc.
My boyfriend is in anesthesia so I have some shadowing experience for multiple specialties and am generally privy to the lifestyle/culture.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Do your local schools not offer evening classes? The university in my town offers evening classes specifically for pre-health students, so I'm able to continue working full-time while taking my pre-reqs. If that isn't the case, is there any possibility of requesting to work out of a different office with the same company? That might be able to put you in a town with a school that offers evening courses. There are places like Harvard Extension that offer evening classes that are open enrollment, so you don't even need to apply.

I don't know much about formal post-bac programs, but if you list out ones that you've been looking at and ones that you've been denied from already then other people can help add to the list or fill in any possibilities that you may not be aware of.

 

[Osminog]

How'd you pull a 511 without taking physics or orgo?

 

[trev5150]

How to approach prereqs and GPA

From behind, low-crawling, out of the shadows, with a Ka-Bar in my teeth, making no noise....

 

[Forever Geebs]

How'd you pull a 511 without taking physics or orgo?

Yeah, I’m interested in this too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CrabHerdPeril]

Do your local schools not offer evening classes? The university in my town offers evening classes specifically for pre-health students, so I'm able to continue working full-time while taking my pre-reqs. If that isn't the case, is there any possibility of requesting to work out of a different office with the same company? That might be able to put you in a town with a school that offers evening courses. There are places like Harvard Extension that offer evening classes that are open enrollment, so you don't even need to apply.

I don't know much about formal post-bac programs, but if you list out ones that you've been looking at and ones that you've been denied from already then other people can help add to the list or fill in any possibilities that you may not be aware of.

Applied and got into HES, considering that option, but I'm not sure if it's worth relocating for. There really is no way to take these classes in my current area in the evenings, mostly due to the labs. My job is super demanding and it would end up taking 2 plus years to finish since I wouldn't be able to make summer school work.

 

[CrabHerdPeril]

How'd you pull a 511 without taking physics or orgo?

I self-studied online with different resources since I'd never done biochem, orgo and physics. I had no issues with CARS and am a Psych major so that really boosted my score.

 

[Osminog]

I self-studied online with different resources since I'd never done biochem, orgo and physics. I had no issues with CARS and am a Psych major so that really boosted my score.

Which resources do you recommend?

 

[CrabHerdPeril]

Which resources do you recommend?

Like I said, CARS and Psych was straightforward due to my background. For the rest, my thing is to watch videos at 1.5x speed and slow down if I get lost. That keeps me focused. Check out Chad's Notes for Orgo and Physics, AK Lectures for Biochem and Biology, r/MCAT for study guides and ANKI decks, Kahn Academy for anything that you need a second pass on. Also, UWorld MCAT is excellent as an initial practice resource. Did all the study banks of course.

 

[jungdoc]

I have a few questions that will determine the advice I can give:

1. What kinds of programs are you targeting? (Very competitive MDs, in-state only, DOs, etc.)


2. What courses are you missing for your target schools? You said you already have your biology classes, but does that include biochemistry? I'm guessing it looks something like this:

Physics I/II + Labs
Gen Chem I/II + Labs
Org Chem I/II + Labs

I assume you've already taken Statistics, and you've got your social sciences covered.


3. What is your approximate GPA from your science and math classes (BCPM)?


4. What was your MCAT score breakdown?

With a 511 but very good scores in CARS and PSOC, for all I know you could have a 124/125/131/131, which is a less desirable balance of scores. If you're more like 126/127/129/129 then that's a much different story.

 

[CrabHerdPeril]

Thanks for the time to give your advice!

1. What kinds of programs are you targeting? (Very competitive MDs, in-state only, DOs, etc.)
Obviously, I want to get into the best MD school possible, but I'm not expecting to be able to penetrate top schools given my GPA. Honestly, I'd rather go off and do advanced studies in a related field if it comes down to DO or nothing. I may change my mind on that, but I doubt it. I won't have any regrets aobut completing the core science courses if I don't get into medical school. I'm committed to pursuing a STEM field as a backup.


2. What courses are you missing for your target schools? You said you already have your biology classes, but does that include biochemistry?

I have never taken any Physics, Biochem, or Orgo but I have credits in basic biology and chemistry (2 Semesters of Labs/Lecture). But I'm not even sure if my biology would be counted at MD schools. I would likely retake all core science courses unless there is a better strategy there. I have taken a stats course but would have to verify that it would count. Psych/Soc is covered.


3. What is your approximate GPA from your science and math classes (BCPM)?
It's ****, right around 3.0 depending on what courses would count. That said, I really don't have any concerns about getting a 4.0 at this stage in my life, just not sure how many courses I'll need to take to really be a viable candidate with my background.


4. What was your MCAT score breakdown?

126/128/128/129
MCAT is my strong point. I only self-studied for about 6 weeks while working full time and my practice tests were all 515-519 range. I got wrecked on the C/P section on the actual test as it was extremely Orgo heavy and that is my weakest subject by miles. I have no doubt I can score in the top 10% once I actually take the courses.


Considering hiring a consultant for advice but they are insanely expensive and I have had some bad experiences in the past. I'm just not confident in my ability to gauge my chances, even if I were to add 32 credts of "A" and crush the MCAT. Hard to pull the trigger and leave a steady career when I don't feel like I know my odds. Have been talking to some other people who went through the program, but I have a different background than most so it's hard to equate experiences.

Any advice you can share would be greatly appreciated.

 

[jungdoc]

Thanks for the time to give your advice!

1. What kinds of programs are you targeting? (Very competitive MDs, in-state only, DOs, etc.)
Obviously, I want to get into the best MD school possible, but I'm not expecting to be able to penetrate top schools given my GPA. Honestly, I'd rather go off and do advanced studies in a related field if it comes down to DO or nothing. I may change my mind on that, but I doubt it. I won't have any regrets aobut completing the core science courses if I don't get into medical school. I'm committed to pursuing a STEM field as a backup.


2. What courses are you missing for your target schools? You said you already have your biology classes, but does that include biochemistry?

I have never taken any Physics, Biochem, or Orgo but I have credits in basic biology and chemistry (2 Semesters of Labs/Lecture). But I'm not even sure if my biology would be counted at MD schools. I would likely retake all core science courses unless there is a better strategy there. I have taken a stats course but would have to verify that it would count. Psych/Soc is covered.


3. What is your approximate GPA from your science and math classes (BCPM)?
It's ****, right around 3.0 depending on what courses would count. That said, I really don't have any concerns about getting a 4.0 at this stage in my life, just not sure how many courses I'll need to take to really be a viable candidate with my background.


4. What was your MCAT score breakdown?

126/128/128/129
MCAT is my strong point. I only self-studied for about 6 weeks while working full time and my practice tests were all 515-519 range. I got wrecked on the C/P section on the actual test as it was extremely Orgo heavy and that is my weakest subject by miles. I have no doubt I can score in the top 10% once I actually take the courses.


Considering hiring a consultant for advice but they are insanely expensive and I have had some bad experiences in the past. I'm just not confident in my ability to gauge my chances, even if I were to add 32 credts of "A" and crush the MCAT. Hard to pull the trigger and leave a steady career when I don't feel like I know my odds. Have been talking to some other people who went through the program, but I have a different background than most so it's hard to equate experiences.

Any advice you can share would be greatly appreciated.

First of all, some of what I'll suggest is a repeat of Goro's sage advice in this oft-cited thread, which I suggest you also read.

Honestly, given your MCAT performance and soft-factors, by far the biggest struggle you'll face is GPA-related. You should sit down and do a full calculation of your science and math coursework to see where you stand. Some schools may outright screen your application without significant improvement on GPA, at least for MD. Since you're not interested in DO, you're probably going to have to rack up as close to a 4.0 with your post-bacc coursework as you can get. With that kind of performance over multiple courses, you may be able to show the adcomms that you've "reinvented" yourself sufficiently. Even with a high GPA in your post-bacc, though, I think your prospects with more competitive MD schools will be very limited even if you slightly raise your MCAT score simply because of your lower overall GPA. I don't think you need to retake your core sciences you've already completed unless you scored really, really low in them.

That said (and this depends on where you live), I bet with a great post-bacc GPA in science upperlevel courses and your MCAT, you could still be pretty competitive for your state MD school(s). I know some people will probably disagree vehemently with me, but I also think you are not crazy to consider taking the MCAT again after completing additional coursework and doing further study. If you only studied 6 weeks without some of this background and got a 511 and were averaging in practice above the 94th percentile, then I think those are achievable scores. It depends on how confident you are that you will have a significant improvement on your score. Bringing your score more into the 90th+ percentile may open doors out-of-state as well.

Make sure you also subscribe to MSAR and look closely at the data regarding accepted students for any schools that catch your interest. MSAR can also indicate what schools accept regarding coursework and online credits, but be sure to check directly with the school if you're really interested in them. I've found MSAR to often not give the full picture.

I also know you want to get this over with as soon as possible, but I think you should consider doing a DIY post-bacc either while working or full-time. You've clearly got self-study chops. I also had a very demanding job when I decided to pursue medical school. I ended up quitting that job and taking a (lower paying) less time-consuming position in order to facilitate my taking evening classes and labs. Would it be possible for you to relocate or change jobs? You won't get a letter of recommendation from the program doing it this way, but I question whether that really hurts as long as you have other solid recommendations.

If you're going to stick with the formal post-bacc or SMP route, I haven't heard that it really matters which program you enter as long as you do really well in it. If a mediocre one is all you can get, then I don't see the harm in it as long as your grades are great. Folks who have taken a formal one can speak to this better than me, but it never entered into my calculus.

My final suggestion is to make sure you take a close look at your local universities and determine if they have post-graduate schools or extension schools of their own. Universities are increasingly offering extension-type coursework that you can take a la carte. I completed some of mine from the University of Texas Extension School, which was a program that I didn't even know existed until I stumbled upon it by accident. These things are not always well-advertised.

 

[CrabHerdPeril]

Thank you, really appreciate the advice!

GPA is definitely the main obstacle. Even if I were to take 32+ credits I know I won't be able to move the dial much on my overall GPA. I'm hoping that really boosting my sGPA will be enough to get my foot in the door, as that will be much easier to improve. As far as the core classes, I was told I would need to retake since I graduate in 2011, is this not typically the case?

I absolutely plan to retake the MCAT, taking it early was my way of testing my abilities a bit. I have no reason to rush so I don't have any worries about scoring lower, and I think that I probably need to get my C/P score up above 75% to be competitive anyways. This is the area I'm least concerned about, to be honest.

I'm really considering moving to MA to do the Harvard Extension School program for the following reasons:
+ Can complete all core science (32 credits) in a year with one summer semester
+ Can work full time during fall/spring semesters
+ Lots of research/medical opportunities in the area
+ Can earn a committee letter
+ Credits are pretty affordable (though summer school and cost of living will probably balance that out)
+ Will have access to advising/network

If I hypothetically started this summer I could add 32-34 credits to my GPA, finish with an sGPA of around 3.5, a committee letter, and potentially a year of experience in research/medical/other.

Hard to do much where I live now as I would struggle to get into the courses I need unless I applied for an MS program (or second BS), and they all require the core sciences as well, which are pretty much impossible to take with a normal job here. I could go be an EMT and work nights or something and make it work, but I'm really tempted to just move to an accelerated program since I don't really have any roots here and I haven't been impressed with the options.

Would appreciate your thoughts again if you have time, otherwise thanks for what you shared. Read the post you linked to and will register for MSAR.