How to become a GMO?

[hjdmx]

What are the qualifications for GMO?

What are the steps/process of being a GMO?

What is life like as a GMO?

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[Red Lobster Actual]

have you used the search bar in this sub forum?

 

[sonofva]

Med school graduate, either HPSP or USUHS. Transitional year internship or other intern year completed. Choose not to match or do not match into a speciality. Go GMO. Profit?

 

[Shikima]

Ask, and ye shall receive.

Teh green weenie always looks.....

 

[DrHalsey]

GMO is a medical school graduate who did not specialize. I would not recommend it if you can avoid it, matching into a residency after a GMO can be difficult.

 

[DrHalsey]

False.

I did not say it was impossible, just that knowledge becomes stale over time.

 

[WernickeDO]

I did not say it was impossible, just that knowledge becomes stale over time.

You did not say it was impossible, you said it was difficult to match after a GMO tour. That is 100% wrong on every level. Please do not comment on things you know nothing about.

 

[pgg]

GMO is a medical school graduate who did not specialize. I would not recommend it if you can avoid it, matching into a residency after a GMO can be difficult.

This is too simplistic and general an answer, and it implies things that aren't true.


More specifically, GMOs are doctors who finished an internship (PGY-1 year) and have been sent to line units in the military to serve as primary care doctors for those units. The overwhelming majority of them match into a residency 2 or 3 years later and complete training. It would be more accurate to say they haven't completed residency yet, because the implication from your statement is that they have chosen not to specialize ever.

GMO time is essentially mandatory for most doctors in the Navy; straight-through training is not the norm. There's no stigma to it. Most would prefer to avoid it and finish residency right away, but most don't get that option, regardless of the strength of their application. In the Army or Air Force, GMOs are less common and straight-through training is the norm ... but those services get their GMO-like pound of flesh out of people via brigade surgeon tours after residency. No free lunch.

When you say that matching into a residency after a GMO tour can be difficult, you're mostly wrong. GMOs are actually given priority over those who didn't do GMO time, and it's not uncommon for less competitive applicants to find their way into moderately competitive specialties they'd never have had a shot at, on the basis of that GMO priority.

Yes, technically matching into a residency after a GMO tour can be difficult (anything can be difficult!) but the way you phrased it implies that difficulty is common. It's not. The opposite is actually true.

 

[HighPriest]

Not to mention the fact that while it may be true that an untended knowledge base fades over time, I would stack a GMO with 2 years of service against an incoming med student any day of the week in terms of practical medical knowledge. That's what's so great about 4th year students: you don't even know what you don't even know!

 

[jabreal00]

This is too simplistic and general an answer, and it implies things that aren't true.


More specifically, GMOs are doctors who finished an internship (PGY-1 year) and have been sent to line units in the military to serve as primary care doctors for those units. The overwhelming majority of them match into a residency 2 or 3 years later and complete training. It would be more accurate to say they haven't completed residency yet, because the implication from your statement is that they have chosen not to specialize ever.

GMO time is essentially mandatory for most doctors in the Navy; straight-through training is not the norm. There's no stigma to it. Most would prefer to avoid it and finish residency right away, but most don't get that option, regardless of the strength of their application. In the Army or Air Force, GMOs are less common and straight-through training is the norm ... but those services get their GMO-like pound of flesh out of people via brigade surgeon tours after residency. No free lunch.

When you say that matching into a residency after a GMO tour can be difficult, you're mostly wrong. GMOs are actually given priority over those who didn't do GMO time, and it's not uncommon for less competitive applicants to find their way into moderately competitive specialties they'd never have had a shot at, on the basis of that GMO priority.

Yes, technically matching into a residency after a GMO tour can be difficult (anything can be difficult!) but the way you phrased it implies that difficulty is common. It's not. The opposite is actually true.

There may be some caveats. I think if one applies for residency in the military after a GMO tour they have a good chance at getting picked up to whatever specialty they are interested in. However, if one does GMO and applies to a moderate to highly competitive specialty there options are so-so. I know people who did their time as GMO, applied to moderately competitive residencies as civilians and didn't match and ended up settling for primary care. Remember most GMOs don't have the time to do research or other scholarly activities that helps for civilian spots. Plus many program directors don't get the military thing even though it's respected.

 

[WernickeDO]

There may be some caveats. I think if one applies for residency in the military after a GMO tour they have a good chance at getting picked up to whatever specialty they are interested in. However, if one does GMO and applies to a moderate to highly competitive specialty there options are so-so. I know people who did their time as GMO, applied to moderately competitive residencies as civilians and didn't match and ended up settling for primary care. Remember most GMOs don't have the time to do research or other scholarly activities that helps for civilian spots. Plus many program directors don't get the military thing even though it's respected.

GMOs are placed in a separate pool from MS4s. Each program will leave anywhere from 1-3 spots for applicants from the GMO/TY pool. This pool is subject to a point system, the values of which have been posted elsewhere in this forum. A GMO that has done a 2 year tour and deployed while getting good OERs has a monumental advantage over a TY or a GMO who did one year and didn't deploy. There are other considerations and I'm sure I don't have the whole story but when I went on the interview trail I was told this by every program I encountered. Most of the PDs have combat patches on their arm, so to say they don't "get the military thing" is false. Additionally, a marginal candidate that could not match to a competitive specialty right out of med school can increase their chances by doing a GMO tour (as per the aforementioned point system) so their options are better than so-so. There are always caveats, and I know docs who have been in GMO slots for >3 years and will probably never match because they are such a pain in the a$$. But the average CPT Joe Snuffy will find their chances of matching vastly improved after a GMO tour. At least that's what I'm hoping.

 

[jabreal00]

GMOs are placed in a separate pool from MS4s. Each program will leave anywhere from 1-3 spots for applicants from the GMO/TY pool. This pool is subject to a point system, the values of which have been posted elsewhere in this forum. A GMO that has done a 2 year tour and deployed while getting good OERs has a monumental advantage over a TY or a GMO who did one year and didn't deploy. There are other considerations and I'm sure I don't have the whole story but when I went on the interview trail I was told this by every program I encountered. Most of the PDs have combat patches on their arm, so to say they don't "get the military thing" is false. Additionally, a marginal candidate that could not match to a competitive specialty right out of med school can increase their chances by doing a GMO tour (as per the aforementioned point system) so their options are better than so-so. There are always caveats, and I know docs who have been in GMO slots for >3 years and will probably never match because they are such a pain in the a$$. But the average CPT Joe Snuffy will find their chances of matching vastly improved after a GMO tour. At least that's what I'm hoping.

I meant if they are applying for civilian residencies after completing their obligations as GMOs. Military residencies they have a good chance of getting their specialty or location choice after 2-3 years of GMO.

 

[WernickeDO]

I meant if they are applying for civilian residencies after completing their obligations as GMOs. Military residencies they have a good chance of getting their specialty or location choice after 2-3 years of GMO.

 

[j4pac]

If you want to be a GMO...get into medical school...match to a military internship...get through the military internship...then just be.

 

[pgg]

Yeah, without exception, every single person I've known who applied civilian after serving out a GMO obligation matched. Even the guys I thought were kind of knuckleheads.

Including some competitive specialties, big names ... I just haven't seen that GMO time was a liability.

My observational N is probably about 10, FWIW.

 

[narcusprince]

Graduate in the top 1% of your class!
Life Mai Thais and qual physicals.

 

[jabreal00]

Do you actually know anyone who has done this? Because I know 3, two who did Radiology and one who did ER. Every single one matched at their top choice. The civilian programs were all impressed with their prior service and considered their time in independent practice a strength, not a weakness.

I don't know many competitive medical students who did their obligation as GMOs. Most of the competitive candidates matched military or got a civilian deferred. My anecdotal experience are those who finished GMO after three or four years and went out to civilian for residency generally settled for a primary care specialty after failing to match for moderately competitive first choice. Another matched ER at a community based program.

 

[hjdmx]

If you want to be a GMO...get into medical school...match to a military internship...get through the military internship...then just be.

perfect ..thats what i need info on... any insight on military internship?

 

[j4pac]

perfect ..thats what i need info on... any insight on military internship?

Depends on your branch of service. USN and Army rarely fill and you are usually guaranteed either an FP, IM, or transitional internship (transitional is the most competitive). Air Force has traditionally filled, so students are recommended to apply civilian. You will need to check with your GME office to get a better idea of your plan.

 

[hjdmx]

Depends on your branch of service. USN and Army rarely fill and you are usually guaranteed either an FP, IM, or transitional internship (transitional is the most competitive). Air Force has traditionally filled, so students are recommended to apply civilian. You will need to check with your GME office to get a better idea of your plan.

I was thinking of the Air Force, but i can see how it can be easily filled . Could i join the reserves to receive the GME benefits?

I don't want a competitive spot - either FP or IM.- hell even transitional.

 

[j4pac]

I was thinking of the Air Force, but i can see how it can be easily filled . Could i join the reserves to receive the GME benefits?

I don't want a competitive spot - either FP or IM.- hell even transitional.

Do your homework on all of the scholarship programs. FAP is a program that I wish I would have known about before my acceptance to HPSP. Also, the reserves can be a very good option for those who don't want to go active duty. FAP and the reserves allow you to pick your specialty. HPSP can be very competitive for non-PCM specialties.

Look into the White Coat Investor...besides being an excellent book and financial blog that all physicians/med students should read...he did a cost analysis of HPSP. His conclusion is that it is very rare to come out ahead financially by taking HPSP.

 

[hjdmx]

Do your homework on all of the scholarship programs. FAP is a program that I wish I would have known about before my acceptance to HPSP. Also, the reserves can be a very good option for those who don't want to go active duty. FAP and the reserves allow you to pick your specialty. HPSP can be very competitive for non-PCM specialties.

Look into the White Coat Investor...besides being an excellent book and financial blog that all physicians/med students should read...he did a cost analysis of HPSP. His conclusion is that it is very rare to come out ahead financially by taking HPSP.

thanks man really appreciate it

 

[backrow]

I don't know many competitive medical students who did their obligation as GMOs. Most of the competitive candidates matched military or got a civilian deferred. My anecdotal experience are those who finished GMO after three or four years and went out to civilian for residency generally settled for a primary care specialty after failing to match for moderately competitive first choice. Another matched ER at a community based program.

This is not the case for many in the Navy. Because the Navy does so many GMOs and doesn't do straight through contracts (for the most part) I know many people who were competitive applicants who decided to do one additional year of GMO and get out. Many have gone on to match in competitive specialties such as rads/anesthesia/etc.

 

[j4pac]

This is not the case for many in the Navy. Because the Navy does so many GMOs and doesn't do straight through contracts (for the most part) I know many people who were competitive applicants who decided to do one additional year of GMO and get out. Many have gone on to match in competitive specialties such as rads/anesthesia/etc.

Very true. I'm willing to wager that the Navy's MOST competitive applicants become GMOs because those are the applicants trying to get competitive specialties. Though the numbers suck for this year...many primary care residents are able to go straight through.

BTW...I do acknowledge that there are applicants who go into primary care with very good scores.

 

[williameb23]

This is not the case for many in the Navy. Because the Navy does so many GMOs and doesn't do straight through contracts (for the most part) I know many people who were competitive applicants who decided to do one additional year of GMO and get out. Many have gone on to match in competitive specialties such as rads/anesthesia/etc.

Of the 258 PGY-1s this past year in the Navy, 110 were accepted into straight-through residencies - which surprised me. 62 were handed straight GMO (then 60 FS, 17 UMO).

[Source: Medical Department Officer Distribution Branch, PERS 4415]

 

[pgg]

Of the 258 PGY-1s this past year in the Navy, 110 were accepted into straight-through residencies - which surprised me. 62 were handed straight GMO (then 60 FS, 17 UMO).

[Source: Medical Department Officer Distribution Branch, PERS 4415]

The Navy has made some progress in moving toward straight through training. It has been slow. Glacier slow.

In 1997 when I visited USUHS as an applicant the word was that Navy GMOs were largely "going away" and being replaced with residency trained physicians. Off the top of my head I think they've converted about 1/5 of the billets since then.