How to Choose The Right School

[deleted958249]

Hello everyone, I am a relatively new member to SDN so I apologize if this subject has already been discussed in the past (I have been having trouble finding previous threads regarding this issue). I have had the good fortune of being accepted to a few medical schools (MD) this cycle, and am having difficulty deciding which is the right place for me. While at this point I am still undecided as to which specialty I want to enter, I am leaning towards a surgical subspecialty in the future. Given that I have felt content in terms of "fit" at all the places I have interviewed at, what are some factors that will be important to consider within a school? Is it better to attend a competitive research-focused, prestigious school where I run the risk of being seen as a more middle-of-the-pack student? How much will it hurt if I decide to attend a newer, primary-care focused school that's closer to home, despite having reportedly high STEP scores? I apologize if these are basic questions, I don't really have much knowledge with regards to what happens after the pre-medical process and am fairly ignorant with what needs to be done in medical school in order to maximize my chances of matching into a residency of my choice.

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[AnatomyGrey12]

How high up the prestige ladder are your acceptances?

 

[Lucca]

Here are a few things I’m thinking about as I’m facing this same decision:


1. Resources and opportunities for research (but I’m Md/PhD so that’s a bigger deal for me personally)
2. Match list (generally and broadly speaking are people being trained by the MSTP staying on track by going to research residencies / faculty positions / comprable positions) and residency director ranking.
3. Location + cost of living + quality of local clinical education opportunities and high concentration of potential clinical mentors. Opportunities to work with underserved populations. Is this a place where I can continue to be politically active and have classmates who are also, etc. I personally don’t want to uproot myself to do clerkships, some ppl might enjoy that opportunity.
4. True P/F with no Internal ranking and preferably no AOA either
5. Diversity of medical school class in terms of race/ethnicity, interests, and student involvement.
6. Program with high flexibility during clinical years.
7. My interpretation of how supportive and cohesive the medical student community at the school is.

 

[deleted958249]

How high up the prestige ladder are your acceptances?

Hi @AnatomyGrey12, among my aceeptances is a reputable, big-city, T-30 school that seems to have an upward trend in rankings (and does have arguably the best clinical opportunity among the ones I’m considering), while the other one is a very new school that has not graduated a class (therefore not ranked); yet still has hype among applicants for their new curriculum and reportedly high STEP scores. Tuition is relatively the same at both schools, but family is closer to the newer one. Sorry for the vague descriptions, it’s for the sake of anonymity.

 

[deleted958249]

Here are a few things I’m thinking about as I’m facing this same decision:


1. Resources and opportunities for research (but I’m Md/PhD so that’s a bigger deal for me personally)
2. Match list (generally and broadly speaking are people being trained by the MSTP staying on track by going to research residencies / faculty positions / comprable positions) and residency director ranking.
3. Location + cost of living + quality of local clinical education opportunities and high concentration of potential clinical mentors. Opportunities to work with underserved populations. Is this a place where I can continue to be politically active and have classmates who are also, etc. I personally don’t want to uproot myself to do clerkships, some ppl might enjoy that opportunity.
4. True P/F with no Internal ranking and preferably no AOA either
5. Diversity of medical school class in terms of race/ethnicity, interests, and student involvement.
6. Program with high flexibility during clinical years.
7. My interpretation of how supportive and cohesive the medical student community at the school is.

@Lucca Thank you for your response. As a long time lurker, I have found your insight to be very helpful in the past; as it is here. Happy to hear you have acceptances.

 

[Lucca]

@Lucca Thank you for your response. As a long time lurker, I have found your insight to be very helpful in the past; as it is here. Happy to hear you have acceptances.

same goes to you! Glad to see another longhorn succeeding

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Hi @AnatomyGrey12, among my aceeptances is a reputable, big-city, T-30 school that seems to have an upward trend in rankings (and does have arguably the best clinical opportunity among the ones I’m considering), while the other one is a very new school that has not graduated a class (therefore not ranked); yet still has hype among applicants for their new curriculum and reportedly high STEP scores. Tuition is relatively the same at both schools, but family is closer to the newer one. Sorry for the vague descriptions, it’s for the sake of anonymity.

Go to the established school. The opportunities will be much greater at a well known established school than at a brand new one. It really would be more helpful if you would just give us names, no one will know who you are just from that. We could give a more nuanced answer if we knew.

 

[deleted958249]

Go to the established school. The opportunities will be much greater at a well known established school than at a brand new one. It really would be more helpful if you would just give us names, no one will know who you are just from that. We could give a more nuanced answer if we knew.

Sure. Right now the dillema is Dell versus other Texas schools, such as Long, McGovern, UTMB, UTSW, etc.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Sure. Right now the dillema is Dell versus other Texas schools, such as Long, McGovern, UTMB, UTSW, etc.

UTSW and Baylor have a leg up on all the other Texas schools. That would be my suggestion as you said that the fit at all of the schools was good for you.

 

[orthodoc23]

Sure. Right now the dillema is Dell versus other Texas schools, such as Long, McGovern, UTMB, UTSW, etc.

I'm in the exact same boat. I also want to go into a surgical specialty, but I'm having trouble deciding between Dell, McGovern, and Long. Not sure what parameters to base my decision off of or which to even look at as relevant.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Hello everyone, I am a relatively new member to SDN so I apologize if this subject has already been discussed in the past (I have been having trouble finding previous threads regarding this issue). I have had the good fortune of being accepted to a few medical schools (MD) this cycle, and am having difficulty deciding which is the right place for me. While at this point I am still undecided as to which specialty I want to enter, I am leaning towards a surgical subspecialty in the future. Given that I have felt content in terms of "fit" at all the places I have interviewed at, what are some factors that will be important to consider within a school? Is it better to attend a competitive research-focused, prestigious school where I run the risk of being seen as a more middle-of-the-pack student? How much will it hurt if I decide to attend a newer, primary-care focused school that's closer to home, despite having reportedly high STEP scores? I apologize if these are basic questions, I don't really have much knowledge with regards to what happens after the pre-medical process and am fairly ignorant with what needs to be done in medical school in order to maximize my chances of matching into a residency of my choice.

Look for a school with residencies in the surgical specialities, and has good clinical training. A strong connection to a teaching hospital is of critical importance.

Ask 3-4th years what their roll is on the team. Do they carry their own patients? Do they do their own H&Ps? Do they present in rounds? Do they scrub and assist for surgeries? Are they allowed to do procedures (suture Lacs, place central lines, foleys, NG tubes, Pap smears, do LPs, intubate, etx)

 

[Lucca]

Clinically, UTSW will be much stronger than Dell. Dell has a lot going for it primary care wise, but if your interests are in primary care then almost everywhere will give you great opportunities to pursue that interest, and while fewer of your classmates might share that interest at SW than Dell, you will probably get a fantastic clinical education at SW. Parkland is one of the largest public hospitals in the US and Dallas has a very large underserved population. But, alas, Dallas also really really sucks. Wish they would’ve built SW somewhere sensible, like Houston. But then it would just be Baylor

 

[Morty c137]

I was not expecting to love Dell as much as I did when I interviewed there, and am also conflicted on how to rank for match.
(Full disclosure, I pre-matched at UTSW, but have not at Dell.)
This is my pros/cons list for both, but you might have different values.

Dell
Pros
-interesting curriculum, one-year pre-clerkship
-third year makes it super easy to do your own project/another degree
-administration seems super responsive to student concerns and interests
-heavy public health/primary care focus (maybe con if that's not your thing)
-small class, students seemed really close and happy
-Austin > Dallas

Cons
-clinical curriculum not as developed
-new, have yet to graduate a class
-Seton is a Catholic-affiliated hospital network? Current students said it has not been a problem, but have not been totally able to assuage my concerns, one mentioned that they have to "be careful with wording" sometimes

Note: not sure how the high step scores should be interpreted? small sample size, and I think they threw a lot of money at their first class

UTSW
Pros
-Parkland is huge and beautiful, diverse patient population
-great match list, residency director rankings
-SO MANY resources and affiliations
-did not get that famous gunner vibe during my interview day
-seems really easy to get involved with free clinics and research opportunities

Cons
-large class size
-pre-clerkship grades are considered for AOA starting this year
-one of the MS4s said that UTSW is not friendly to primary care?

Yo are serious about the pre clerkship grades for AOA? Even though its true Pass/ Fail?

 

[deleted958249]

@The Knife & Gun Club @Lucca @AnatomyGrey12 Thanks so much for the advice guys. I had one more question - how much does medical school class rank and AOA status matter for specialty competitiveness? I’ve heard varying views on the matter - some say it’s better to be the big fish in a small pond, while others say to go to the place with the best clinical exposure/faculty, despite having more competitive students around you. Would love y’all’s take on the matter.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

@The Knife & Gun Club @Lucca @AnatomyGrey12 Thanks so much for the advice guys. I had one more question - how much does medical school class rank and AOA status matter for specialty competitiveness? I’ve heard varying views on the matter - some say it’s better to be the big fish in a small pond, while others say to go to the place with the best clinical exposure/faculty, despite having more competitive students around you. Would love y’all’s take on the matter.

This is just my opinion - take it with a grain of salt.

I think it’s better to go where the clinical training is good, rather than where you’ll be a big fish. The reason being that as you proceed in medicine the professional/academic world shrinks, making word of mouth & school reputation very important.

I’ll give an example: my friend who wants to do neurosurgery goes to a local new MD school which is not associated with an academic hospital. He was a rock star during pre-clinical years - top of the class, great step 1, etc. But now in 3rd year he’s been farmed out to some private neurosurgeon for his rotation who has 0 connections in the academic world. So he has to do away rotations to make connections, and has no home residency program faculty to go to bat for him when he applies. He also had a really hard time finding research, because his med school is not associated with an academic hospital.

Compare that to a brand name program which churns out 2-5 neurosurgeons a year. They have experienced mentors who have been doing this for years. You want to do residency in ______ city? Well your program director knows the PD there, in fact they co-authored a few papers back in the day. The brand name school has sent 8 residents to that program, and they’ve all been rock stars - so _____ city is going to make sure your app gets a thorough review.

2 caveats:
1) AOA is hugely important, just not as important as connections IMO
2) I say “brand name” rather than “prestigious” because these schools don’t have to be ivory tower academic sites. Places like Alabama, Arizona, LSU, UF, Miami, wake forest, etc. are not even close to top 20 programs. But theyre well established academic programs connected to huge teaching hospitals, who have been churning out solid graduates for decades.

 

[CyrusHabs7695]

Whichever one is cheapest and closest to home.

 

[deleted958249]

This is just my opinion - take it with a grain of salt.

I think it’s better to go where the clinical training is good, rather than where you’ll be a big fish. The reason being that as you proceed in medicine the professional/academic world shrinks, making word of mouth & school reputation very important.

I’ll give an example: my friend who wants to do neurosurgery goes to a local new MD school which is not associated with an academic hospital. He was a rock star during pre-clinical years - top of the class, great step 1, etc. But now in 3rd year he’s been farmed out to some private neurosurgeon for his rotation who has 0 connections in the academic world. So he has to do away rotations to make connections, and has no home residency program faculty to go to bat for him when he applies. He also had a really hard time finding research, because his med school is not associated with an academic hospital.

Compare that to a brand name program which churns out 2-5 neurosurgeons a year. They have experienced mentors who have been doing this for years. You want to do residency in ______ city? Well your program director knows the PD there, in fact they co-authored a few papers back in the day. The brand name school has sent 8 residents to that program, and they’ve all been rock stars - so _____ city is going to make sure your app gets a thorough review.

2 caveats:
1) AOA is hugely important, just not as important as connections IMO
2) I say “brand name” rather than “prestigious” because these schools don’t have to be ivory tower academic sites. Places like Alabama, Arizona, LSU, UF, Miami, wake forest, etc. are not even close to top 20 programs. But theyre well established academic programs connected to huge teaching hospitals, who have been churning out solid graduates for decades.

Thanks for the advice. Looking forward to the journey ahead.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

how much does medical school class rank and AOA status matter for specialty competitiveness?

I’ve heard varying views on the matter - some say it’s better to be the big fish in a small pond, while others say to go to the place with the best clinical exposure/faculty, despite having more competitive students around you.

AOA matters much more than rank, but neither matter enough to choose a school based on the second quote. Once you get accepted to a USMD school my opinion is that you should choose the place that will give you the best clinical training, the best chance to network, and ideally has home programs in any specialty you think could even be mildly interesting. Having those things will help you have the career you want to have.

 

[Dagrimsta1]

Set up A dart board.

Put the schools on the dartboard.

Throw 10-15 darts and the one with the most hits wins

 

[863168]

Set up A dart board. Put the schools on the dartboard. Throw 10-15 darts and the one with the most hits wins

Usually those are the schools that are dead to me.

 

[deleted958249]

the NRMP Program Director's survey ranks AOA, prestige of medical school, etc by specialty.
https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/NRMP-2018-Program-Director-Survey-for-WWW.pdf

Great link. Thank you.

 

[Dwight Snoot]

Straight up pass fail is SO important (IMO). I can't even imagine going to a school with ranking in pre clinical years

 

[CyrusHabs7695]

Straight up pass fail is SO important (IMO). I can't even imagine going to a school with ranking in pre clinical years

Its honestly not that big of a deal if you just don't worry about it. The kids who are constantly worrying about getting 90s on everything and freaking out about their rank are the most stressed ones

 

[Dwight Snoot]

That's kind of my point though. If there was no ranking, those kids would not be trying to get 90's on everything and would not be as stressed. (oversimplification as people at my school still do this, just less of them). PS, love the name, it's DECENT

 

[CyrusHabs7695]

That's kind of my point though. If there was no ranking, those kids would not be trying to get 90's on everything and would not be as stressed. (oversimplification as people at my school still do this, just less of them). PS, love the name, it's DECENT

Big Schrute Farms guy

 

[deleted958249]

Straight up pass fail is SO important (IMO). I can't even imagine going to a school with ranking in pre clinical years

Its honestly not that big of a deal if you just don't worry about it. The kids who are constantly worrying about getting 90s on everything and freaking out about their rank are the most stressed ones

I think it depends on the individual. Some are motivated by seeing how they stack up against others, but some students can become unnerved by that type of system. I can see some of the merits of both sides. As long as there are bears, beets, and battlestar galactica, it's all good.

 

[deleted958249]

Update: Thank you all for your wonderful advice. After re-evaluating fit with the mission/curriculum, costs, and a few other intangibles, I decided to go with Dell over a couple other Texas schools . Definitely a bit of a risk, but the faculty and current students really sold me on subsequent encounters and second-look days. Still waiting to hear back from a couple AMCAS schools, but I'll cross that bridge if I get to that point.

 

[M&L]

Here are a few things I’m thinking about as I’m facing this same decision:


1. Resources and opportunities for research (but I’m Md/PhD so that’s a bigger deal for me personally)
2. Match list (generally and broadly speaking are people being trained by the MSTP staying on track by going to research residencies / faculty positions / comprable positions) and residency director ranking.
3. Location + cost of living + quality of local clinical education opportunities and high concentration of potential clinical mentors. Opportunities to work with underserved populations. Is this a place where I can continue to be politically active and have classmates who are also, etc. I personally don’t want to uproot myself to do clerkships, some ppl might enjoy that opportunity.
4. True P/F with no Internal ranking and preferably no AOA either
5. Diversity of medical school class in terms of race/ethnicity, interests, and student involvement.
6. Program with high flexibility during clinical years.
7. My interpretation of how supportive and cohesive the medical student community at the school is.

why is no AOA a good thing?

 

[puahate]

why is no AOA a good thing?

Less things to worry about

 

[M&L]

Less things to worry about

i have to learn so much )) (me googling if my schools have AOA)

 

[nvuss]

Update: Thank you all for your wonderful advice. After re-evaluating fit with the mission/curriculum, costs, and a few other intangibles, I decided to go with Dell over a couple other Texas schools . Definitely a bit of a risk, but the faculty and current students really sold me on subsequent encounters and second-look days. Still waiting to hear back from a couple AMCAS schools, but I'll cross that bridge if I get to that point.

How do you feel about your decision now that things have gotten rolling with MS1? I am in a similar dilemma now.

 

[deleted958249]

How do you feel about your decision now that things have gotten rolling with MS1? I am in a similar dilemma now.

Extremely happy with my choice so far. Very supportive school with awesome students, and a staff who will go out of their way to make sure you find the success you're looking for.