How to choose . . .

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vankras

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I feel completely lost about how to choose what school to go to. I know this is the easy part and I have already finished the difficult part, but when people say just choose the one that is best for you, it doesn't help. I haven't gotten in yet, but I am trying to decide between UOP, TUfts, U penn, Columbia, Arizona. Anyone want to offer advice, guidance, or just tell me where to go?
 
No one school is perfect for everyone. The reasons I might like one school may or may not be the reasons you like it. I think you have to make this decision on your own.

Dont get me wrong, you should listen to the advice given by others here, but this decision should be based on your needs as a student and a person.
 
Originally posted by vankras
I am trying to decide between UOP, TUfts, U penn, Columbia, Arizona. Anyone want to offer advice, guidance, or just tell me where to go?

hm.... did you go to each interview ?
 
Originally posted by vankras
I feel completely lost about how to choose what school to go to. I know this is the easy part and I have already finished the difficult part, but when people say just choose the one that is best for you, it doesn't help. I haven't gotten in yet, but I am trying to decide between UOP, TUfts, U penn, Columbia, Arizona. Anyone want to offer advice, guidance, or just tell me where to go?

That's what interviews are for-- You get to see the schools you are interested in and to ask questions pertaining to areas which you deem important, such as size of patient pool, are the students happy, how are the facilities and equipment, how is the environs, costs of living, etc.

You can definitely decide which is best for you after you've interviewed.
 
I understand that. It seems like some of my questions are unanswered.


Are you going to get a better academic, clinical, or specialty education at one school over another? If yes, what schools are these?

If not, and these points are important to me, then how am I supposed to choose a school if I can't even answer these questions.
 
Also, interviews don't seem to help. Here is why.

Every school seems to say they have the best academic plan.
They prepare you best to be a clinical dentist.
Their students are very happy.
You will be best prepared if you go there.

There has to be a more objective analysis than the people in their respective schools.

Thank you for all your help to those who have replied.
 
You havent answered our question either! Exactly which schools have you been interviewed at, or have you already interviewed at all of them?

At your interviews, if you havent had them yet, they will give you all of their stats on specialties and board exam pass stats. That should be able to help you.
 
Originally posted by vankras
Also, interviews don't seem to help. Here is why.

Every school seems to say they have the best academic plan.
They prepare you best to be a clinical dentist.
Their students are very happy.
You will be best prepared if you go there.

There has to be a more objective analysis than the people in their respective schools.

Thank you for all your help to those who have replied.

Not completely true. Unless a school brainwashes their students, you will get some very honest pros and cons from the current students you meet during your interviews.
 
I have been to Arizona, BU, Tufts interviews. I am going to Columbia, Penn, and UOP.

Every student that I have talked to loves their school and all the academic and clinical aspects and the oppotunity that the school offers. They all just seem great. I guess I'll just shut my eyes and pin the tail on the dental school.

Thanks for the help everyone
 
Originally posted by vankras
I understand that. It seems like some of my questions are unanswered.

Are you going to get a better academic, clinical, or specialty education at one school over another? If yes, what schools are these?

If not, and these points are important to me, then how am I supposed to choose a school if I can't even answer these questions.

You can find out about those during an interview no sweat. Just ask the right questions:

Academic: What is the average NDBE Part I or Part II scores at your school last year? How many students from last year's class placed in specialty programs?

Clinical: (repeat) HOW BIG IS YOUR PATIENT POOL?

Facilities: Just look around while you are there. Do the labs look neat and new or old and rundown? Are the clinic operatories modern/ergonomic or old/cramped/claustrophobic?

Environs: How do you like the neighborhood the school is in?

When you get the tour of the school, talk to the students and not the administrators if you want to find out how happy they are.

Interviews DO Help. You just have to know the right questions to ask.
 
Just wondering about this.......
For specializing.....if you go to a school that has P/F how do the residencies choose between those students?

Do they prefer student that got A's and B's at UMDNJ for example or one that passed all classes at Columbia?
 
Originally posted by UBTom
That's what interviews are for-- You get to see the schools you are interested in and to ask questions pertaining to areas which you deem important, such as size of patient pool, are the students happy, how are the facilities and equipment, how is the environs, costs of living, etc.

You can definitely decide which is best for you after you've interviewed.

Shouldn't you know something going into the interview.
The thing is how to get to know the school when there is a great distance involved. Obviously nobody is going to take a plane trip to say LA just to "stroll" around UCLA and/or USC
 
Each school has a website. That is one resource. You can also try and ask people on SDN about their schools.

For websites: http://www.adea.org/links/default.htm

If you think you might be interested in the school, then apply.

If you get an interview, then go check it out firsthand

Pretty straightforward.
 
if money's a concern then money
location
where your family is
where your friends are
what school's program you liked the most
where would you like to live
what are your intentions after graduation
money (again)


*COME to Columbia* hehehe j/k 🙂 I would go to UOP (finish in 3 yrs... i didn't even really consider them...and only went to the interview to make my parents happy...but only cause it's way too close to home) no but really, you gotta sit down and really think about where you want to go...don't let anyone make that decision for you!
 
Stargirl I have such atroucious stats that there has to be an act of divine intervention for me to go to columbia even if I ace all my classes and pick the DAT clean.
 
Originally posted by SillyRabbit
Just wondering about this.......
For specializing.....if you go to a school that has P/F how do the residencies choose between those students?

Do they prefer student that got A's and B's at UMDNJ for example or one that passed all classes at Columbia?

In this situation, the admissions committee is FORCED to actually read the essay & resume from the P/F student as well as the letters of rec from the student's teachers. They also look at your board scores. Since there is no class rank, there is no easy way to discard the application. For example, if the students ranked #1 through #10 apply for UMDNJ, the committee has a very easy situation. Just pick #1 through #5 to interview, toss everyone else's app in the "immediate reject" pile. If there are 10 UCLA (P/F school) students also applying, then they have to look at the other things in the application to figure out which 5 to interview. It's not as cut & dry as this, but you get what I'm trying to say.

Just coming from a jaded student attending a non-P/F school. I really think my app landed in the "immediate reject" pile real fast based solely on the rank (which really isn't that atrocious, still top 15%). My hunch is they opened the envelope, kept the application fee (of course!), looked at the rank, then threw it out. Oh well, life goes on. 🙂
 
Originally posted by blankguy
Stargirl I have such atroucious stats that there has to be an act of divine intervention for me to go to columbia even if I ace all my classes and pick the DAT clean.

grades and dat scores aren't everything... just study hard, do your best, be the best person you can be... be honest, be a good person, do good deeds because you want to do them (not because you have to do them).... and get enough sleep before the DAT and you'll be fine... (and good letters of rec doesn't hurt... doesn't have to be from profs that you got A+'s in... the person that wrote my science letter I got a B and a B- in his classes, but i felt he knew me better as a person cause the classes were smaller and we hung out in the forest on a field trip...) I seriously think being a good person will take you very far in life. if you have questions, if you need help w/ the DATs or anything feel free to ask... (*oh yeah let me add, i am not religious in any shape or form*)
 
I am a CA resident and I have applied to dental schools in CA, NY, and MA. If I wanted to settle down and practice in CA, would it be better to go to school in CA? I am just concerned because I heard that networking is an important part of dentists and I figure it would be easier to do that in the state that you want to practice it in.
Also, I am interested in specializing. Does anyone know if these programs are more likely to accept students from their own dental schools?

Thanks.
 
Having gone to one of the schools that does not have class rank, this is what I can tell you with a good degree of certainty. The ones that I am aware of are Columbia, Harvard, and UCLA, and maybe UConn (there may be others, but I'm not sure). When I graduated several years back, A LOT of people placed into specialty programs. Pretty much everybody that wanted to specialize eventually got what they wanted. Unless they were a terminal screw up (there are a few in every class) they were able to write their own ticket to some degree. I'd have to say that 50% of my class went straight, while another 30% pursued specialty after having been out of school for at least a year. Not every class is this loaded with specialty hopefuls, but I'd say that a large percentage of students from these schools look to specialize after graduation.
The truth of the matter is this...Every dental school that you go to is going to be competitive. Somewhere, somehow, there are always 'gunners' those that aim to be at the top of the class at all costs. And yes, specialty programs are pretty competitive and a solid class rank is vital to the success of gaining acceptance. So if a school has no grades, and no class rank, then aside from the letters of recommendation, personal statement, and CV, (all important, BTW) the end all be all of the application translates into the National Board Score part 1. You may think that this is unfair, but the truth of the matter is that few people slide by and get 'lucky' on the Board exams. There is so much accumulated knowledge that needs to be mastered in order to excel at this exam, that the ones that learned the material well during their first two years of D-school usually reflect this in their score. This is how residency directors standardize applications. Going to one of these schools (all of which have a stellar reputation with residency directors) is going to prepare you well for the board exam. Don't believe me? Just look at which schools have the highest averages on the part 1 national baords. They are usually the schools that I mentioned earlier. And by removing the factor of class rank, you needn't worry as much about how everybody else is doing. Just work hard and learn what you are supposed to. Things usually fall into place.
But in order to avoid being misled, here are some things that you should be aware of. The students at these schools usually have the same things in mind - specialty. They are going to work their butts off and this will without a doubt cause people to inadvertantly stress each other out and push each other to their limits. If you can see it for what it is worth, there is good and bad in this. You also don't HAVE to go to the mentioned schools to specialize. But once you enter the world of competition for class rank, all hell can break loose. You will usually end up killing yourself for that coveted top 10% and the truth of the matter is that if your board scores are somehow not up to snuff, your application will be substantially weakened anyhows. But if you go to a P/F school, only your board scores will cripple your application (or help for the matter). Are you starting to get the picture?
So to clarify things, there are a number of reasons that schools like UConn, Columbia, Harvard, and UCLA always place so many people into specialty programs (and believe me, they do). The specialty program directors give a lot of respect to those schools because they have produced many well prepared students in the past. And with the P/F system, every hard working dental student gets a shot at doing what they want. One last thing...Don't waltz into these schools thinking it's going to be a cakewalk...It is HARD work ANYWHERE you choose to go. If you slack off and cruise, it will show in your letters, board scores, and your reputation.
I can't tell anyone where to go to school, but if you have options, think about all the pros and cons, and figure out what you want to get out of dental school. If you are certain that you want to specialize (and to be honest, I can't see many people being certain of what they truly want without any practical experience) it might be a good investment to choose a P/F school. If you are able to be at the top of your class, then you'll probably be able to specialize regardless. But if you aren't the competitive type, think about a P/F program. It's not absolutely necessary, but trust me, it doesn't hurt. If you really feel stuck on a decision, feel free to ask. I'm not an expert, but having been through it, I think I have a pretty good idea of how the system really works.
 
Thank you bcDDS for your very informative reply. 🙂

So, would it be safe to assume that I can go to let's say NYU and work my butt off and have a fair chance of gettinc accepted to residency programs in USC or UCLA?
 
Sooh,
I think that NYU is on a letter grade system, and they DO rank their students. Since this is the case, you will have to shoot for a high class rank in order to specialize. Don't forget that not every specialty is equally competitive. Ortho/Endo/OM Surgery usually look for extremely high class rankings. For the other specialties, you still need to be towards the top. I know 2 people that graduated from NYU, that both went into competitive Endo programs (UCLA and NYU). They were in the top three in their respective classes of 200+ students. So to answer your question, yes you can go anywhere, and as long as you are a kick-ass applicant, you will get interviews. As long as you know this, get ready to compete (just don't step on other people's shoes - not a good idea).
One more thing...UCLA is EXTREMELY competitive when it comes to their specialty programs. They want stellar numbers and near flawless credentials. Why? B/C all of the their programs have no tuition and have an annual stipend and everybody wants that. But no matter where you choose to go for your dental school degree, specialty placement can turn into a crapshoot. Unlike dental school applications, you pretty much don't have too much of a choice. Lots of gunner applicants for few spots. In other words, go where you get a position and be happy about it. But keep in mind, that it never hurts to have inside track. If you go to a certain school, and do 3 years of research for the department that you are interested in, have good credentials, AND the important hot shots like you, you MIGHT have a better chance for a spot in their program. But in a nutshell, don't count on it. Hope this helps. =)
 
thanks!
I haven't really been accepted to anywhere yet, but I guess I have more things to consider now.
 
Souuh - If you go to NYU and have stellar credentials AND you are a California resident (which it looks like you are), then my guess is yes, you will likely have a shot at USC or UCLA.

This is just my personal observation. I just returned from an interview in California (not UCLA). I am from Buffalo and have never lived in California and have no family there or anything. Almost every student there was connected to California in some way and had more than one interview at a California school. Most of the students were either from the California dental schools or if they were from East Coast dental schools (like Tufts or Columbia), they were permanent residents of Cali and had lived there all their lives and only left to go to dental school on the east coast.

However, specialty applications are a crapshoot (unless your father is the program director OR you really are THAT spectacular) so like the OP said, you go wherever you get in.

bcDDS - UCLA sent all of its specialty applicants a letter this year about how they thought their programs were gonna be exempted from the upcoming GME cuts. However, they also wrote "We cannot guarantee this funding being available for trainees." I don't know that they are still gonna pay their residents for the upcoming year, I wouldn't bank on it since it looks like everyone is losing GME.

But everything you wrote about P/F school vs. school with ranks is right on, at least from what I have observed so far.
 
Griffin04,
What you say about UCLA surprises me, because they were a paying program before GME was ever even implemented. My friends did pedo and ortho there back in '98 and they were getting a full stipend. That's the reason they chose the program. GME wasn't even a factor back then. It would surprise me a great deal if they decided to cut their stipends, because they weren't basing them on GME funding. I know that USC will no longer offer it, but I'm shocked UCLA sent out a letter stating that. Wow. What program are you applying for anyway?(If you don't mind me asking)
 
bcDDS-
I couldn't PM you, but I visited Columbia and I wanted to find out more information. I am considering Columbia (if they accept me that is!) against my state school, and i'm debating costs versus the benefit of the school.
I feel like the P/F system at Columbia is nice but I understand it is tough and I will be working my arse off. But, if one wants to do speciality, is it smarter to go to Columbia versus my state school because my chances are considerably higher at Columbia?

Thanks a bunch.

--Mangocat
 
Is it common for speciality programs to offer tuition and a stipend? My understanding was that they were just like dental school and you paid the tuition/board etc.
 
Unless you are competitive and fortunate enough to land a position with a state supported dental school, or federally supported VA, you probably won't see any money and will have to pay. GME funding was a program that was implemented a few years back, but it got axed this past year. If you want more info, head to the Dental (no pre-dental) forum, and read the thread about GME funding.
 
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