how to convince them I really want to be a doctor

[sepho]

I was wondering if I could get the SDN community's opinion on how I can better convince admissions committees of my intent to become a doctor. I was speaking to an admission advisor post-rejection, and he mentioned that the committee wasn't truly convinced that I was certain about medicine (being that I am a career-changer).

This is my question: Besides the personal statements, how can I show them that I am serious about medicine? I know the fact that I'm reapplying is a strong statement in itself. How about taking a CNA class and working as a CNA or tech for a year? Any other ideas?

Thanks.

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[ChairmanMao]

I was wondering if I could get the SDN community's opinion on how I can better convince admissions committees of my intent to become a doctor. I was speaking to an admission advisor post-rejection, and he mentioned that the committee wasn't truly convinced that I was certain about medicine (being that I am a career-changer).

This is my question: Besides the personal statements, how can I show them that I am serious about medicine? I know the fact that I'm reapplying is a strong statement in itself. How about taking a CNA class and working as a CNA or tech for a year? Any other ideas?

Thanks.

What do you mean they weren't convinced that you wanted to go into medicine? Can you be more specific about what they said? What did you work as before you applied? Do you have any volunteering/shadowing experience?

Besides that, how were your MCAT and GPA? If they were mediocre, you may not have stood a chance even if you did have extensive clinical experience. Unless you premed advisor, the admissions people, and your friends all said that they weren't convinced you were committed to medicine, then there could have been many reasons why you were rejected.

 

[Crelal]

I agree... we need a little more information.

Also, remember the numbers Ad comms are dealing with. The task is to as eloquently as possible and as plainly as possible explain what you have done and why you have done it. Sounds easy, but it is not.

Did you need more volunteering, how did you answer the "why do you want to be a doctor?" question...

MCAT and GPA may be a factor as well, if you had difficulty in upper level bio courses or the BS section of MCAT.

Just a few ideas until you are able to give us some more info...

 

[sepho]

Thanks for the reply Mao. Here's some background info:

I was going to seminary and working as a part time pastor about six years ago. After a pretty bad experience, I stop pastoring and going to school for about a year. It was during that time that I decided to go back into medicine (I wanted to go into medicine before deciding to go to seminary). I used my personal statement to explain the situation, but I guess they wonder if my decision to go into medicine, isn't largely in response to that bad experience as a pastor.

The advisor said my ec's are fine. My MCATs and GPA are on the lower side, but I'm working on that currently. So I understand that there were many contributing factors to being rejected, I was just wondering how to show that I'm serious this time around (besides retaking MCAT, taking extra classes, rewriting ps, etc.).

What would a CNA certificate and work as a CNA show the committees? Other ideas?

 

[Crelal]

Try volunteering at a hospital- I volunteer once per week for three hours at a time. i have a more 'liberal' hospital that allows me to take vitals, transport patients, and ask lots of questions. They wrote me a great LOR for my apps.

Otherwise, find a job in a health care setting- HUC positions are a great foot in the door, as are the kitchen/cleaning/med records positions that will get you access to the hospitals/clinics with a method to move into a more desirable position.

Also, I would focus your PS on how you KNEW you wanted to be in medicine- what made you miss it when you turned to another career. Focus on second chance and new opportunities.

Best of luck

 

[ChairmanMao]

Thanks for the reply Mao. Here's some background info:

I was going to seminary and working as a part time pastor about six years ago. After a pretty bad experience, I stop pastoring and going to school for about a year. It was during that time that I decided to go back into medicine (I wanted to go into medicine before deciding to go to seminary). I used my personal statement to explain the situation, but I guess they wonder if my decision to go into medicine, isn't largely in response to that bad experience as a pastor.

The advisor said my ec's are fine. My MCATs and GPA are on the lower side, but I'm working on that currently. So I understand that there were many contributing factors to being rejected, I was just wondering how to show that I'm serious this time around (besides retaking MCAT, taking extra classes, rewriting ps, etc.).

What would a CNA certificate and work as a CNA show the committees? Other ideas?

Yeah, that could be a problem. From what you wrote, you seem very committed about being a pastor given that you attended a seminary and worked as a pastor for six years. Taking a year off to go to school and not doing anything clinical (working at a hospital, shadowing a physician extensively, volunteering) could have put a lot of doubt into the minds of the admissions committee. Neither was it a good idea to talk about that negative experience in your essay - it gives them the impression that your applying to medical school to get out of being a pastor.

Since I didn't have a chance to read your essay or see how you interviewed, I would suggest that you rewrite your essay to focus on how being a pastor can be an asset to you as a physician (i.e. compassion, empathy, charity). Don't dwell on the negatives - personally I think being a doctor and a man of God are both very noble professions that carry some of the same responsibilities. You really have to figure out a way to integrate those two professions the next time you write your essay and do your interviews.

Apart from that, are your GPA above a 3.5 and your MCAT above 30? If not, you may want to consider retaking the MCAT and taking some post-bac classes. I don't think it's necessary to go off and work as a CNA so long as you can find a way to get more clinical experience, either by working as a medical assistant, patient transporter, or even by volunteering at a hospital.

 

[DrJosephKim]

If you get an MPH, that may show that you're serious and that you're willing to invest time, energy, and money into this career.

 

[sepho]

Yeah, that could be a problem. From what you wrote, you seem very committed about being a pastor given that you attended a seminary and worked as a pastor for six years. Taking a year off to go to school and not doing anything clinical (working at a hospital, shadowing a physician extensively, volunteering) could have put a lot of doubt into the minds of the admissions committee. Neither was it a good idea to talk about that negative experience in your essay - it gives them the impression that your applying to medical school to get out of being a pastor.

Since I didn't have a chance to read your essay or see how you interviewed, I would suggest that you rewrite your essay to focus on how being a pastor can be an asset to you as a physician (i.e. compassion, empathy, charity). Don't dwell on the negatives - personally I think being a doctor and a man of God are both very noble professions that carry some of the same responsibilities. You really have to figure out a way to integrate those two professions the next time you write your essay and do your interviews.

Apart from that, are your GPA above a 3.5 and your MCAT above 30? If not, you may want to consider retaking the MCAT and taking some post-bac classes. I don't think it's necessary to go off and work as a CNA so long as you can find a way to get more clinical experience, either by working as a medical assistant, patient transporter, or even by volunteering at a hospital.

Let me clarify a few things: I was only a pastor for two years. I've been on this pre-med track for the past three years, finally applying in 2008-2009. Your personal statement advice is interesting, because I did everything that you mentioned. My ps was focused on how my time in ministry will make me a better physician.

I guess there isn't much I can do beside hospital volunteering and improving my stats. I'll need a job in the next year ... so I thought getting a CNA would not only earn me money, but hopefully convey that I am serious about health care and medicine.

 

[sepho]

If you get an MPH, that may show that you're serious and that you're willing to invest time, energy, and money into this career.

I've heard that you shouldn't start a masters program, that you would immediately abandon if you got into medical school.

 

[ChairmanMao]

I've heard that you shouldn't start a masters program, that you would immediately abandon if you got into medical school.

Yeah, don't do it if you're only going to take a year off since most MPH programs are 2 years long. I think you should be fine with any clinical, patient oriented hospital job - such as CNA, EMT, research coordinator, phlebotomist, those types of jobs. Just go the career or employment webiste of your local hospital or clinic and see if they have any open positions.

 

[student1799]

I was going to seminary and working as a part time pastor about six years ago. After a pretty bad experience, I stop pastoring and going to school for about a year. It was during that time that I decided to go back into medicine (I wanted to go into medicine before deciding to go to seminary). I used my personal statement to explain the situation, but I guess they wonder if my decision to go into medicine, isn't largely in response to that bad experience as a pastor.

I think this is the issue that hurt you. I'm not sure whether the adcom literally thought that wanting to go into medicine is a direct response to your pastoral experience, but I'm sure they're concerned about the fact that you started on a career path and then abandoned it. (In fact, you did this twice: first you started pastoral studies, even though you say you were interested in medicine to begin with, then you left the ministry to pursue medicine.) Med schools HATE applicants who don't finish what they start, be it master's programs or career plans. I don't think this attitude is always fair, but it certainly is out there. In addition, they may well be concerned that you don't really know what you want.

Furthermore, medicine is a notoriously tough profession, and you are virtually guaranteed to have a "bad experience" (by which I mean something that shakes you up or leaves a profound negative impression) at some point during your training and/or professional career. The adcom may be worried that you won't be able to handle it and will want to leave medicine if you have such an experience, based on your previous history of leaving the ministry. (I'm not suggesting that a medical bad experience would be as bad as what happened to you before, because I don't know what that was. But I believe that adcoms would see an analogy between the two situations.) If they feel that way, they won't want to admit you in the first place, because the cost of your training would be wasted if you left the profession after a short time.

Under the circumstances, I think the only way to allay this kind of concern (if indeed you can) is to pursue premed classes and volunteer work in a single-minded, serious way for several years, so that there is absolutely no doubt in anyone's mind how committed you are to medicine. I don't think you necessarily need to become a CNA, but you should make health care the be-all and end-all of your professional life. If you must work to support yourself while taking classes, it would be best to get a health-care-related job, so there is no doubt about your intentions.

If you do this, it will help both your grades (because you will be taking additional classes and hopefully earning A's) and your case that you really want to be a doctor. After a couple of years of serious work in a health-care setting (whether paid or volunteer), you should be able to get LORs from people who have been impressed by your dedication and commitment. You will also have plenty of juicy clinical experiences to write about in your med school application essays.

Good luck to you.

 

[ucsfstudents]

I don't know what the negative experience was, but try to minimize it in your application. Reviewers feed off stories of success, and a negative experience in your past is a negative mark against you (no matter who is at fault). Do what has been advised by other SDNers. Also, determine whether you were "rejected" primarily because of your scores, your secondaries, or your interviews. It seems to me that you got to the interview stage, which hints to me that it might be your ability to communicate your desire to be a doctor to the interviewer that might be the problem. Make sure to practice interviewing with a medical student friend or doctor friend of yours. I've done a lot of practice interviews, and am quite surprised at how unprepared many students are.

I wish you lots of luck in your next attempt. I have many religious students in my class, and I think they have a lot to add to medicine, especially their compassion and ability to listen to others. As we all know from politics though, religion is a double edged sword. Keep that in mind as you redo your application. Maybe you might not want to make your whole application based on your life as a pastor.

Good luck!!!

 

[moonshine2]

I actually got a lot of intense questions about this during my interview. One interviewer actually asked me - "How do we know that you are serious and that this is not just a whim?" Overall, you need to be prepared to give a solid answer to that question. You need to confidently portray to them that this is something that you have given a lot of thought to, and that you realize the seriousness of the commitment, yet you want to do it anyway. You need to be able to logically lay out the things that you have done that have brought you to medicine.

Evaluate your ECs and see if there is something more that you could do to add to your answer. I did not necessarily have a lot of hospital volunteer experience, or a lot of shadowing experience in one place. I tried to expose myself to many different areas by shadowing multiple physicians. Each one I drilled about my concerns about becoming a physician. I used the experience to "convince myself" beyond a reasonable doubt that this is the direction that I need to go. Then I tried to communicate that to my interviewers. They really did drill me on it, I felt like he asked me the same question about 5 times. He asked me how he could convince the committee, that didn't have a chance to meet me, that I was serious? While your interview wasn't probably as obvious, it's still probably the same idea that they were indirectly looking for in your answers.

It is a plus that you called and asked about your rejection, and that you will reapply. Those are definitely steps to show you are serious about it.