How to Decide..

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payne0511

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Hey all, I have one really important question to ask you all. I know the answer will most likely be baised one way, but I figured everyone here is in same way involved in a medical career, or aspiring to be. Anyway, I have always wanted to go to medical school and now I have that chance. However, I also love to do research and have been accepted to my top PhD program. I do not have the stats for a MD/PhD program so that is out of the question, nor do I have the time to complete one then start the other. I have no family or friends to really mull this over with and the only person at school who might have insight into this is my PI who is extremely PhD favoring for obvious reasons.

So, I turn to you SDN, what should I be considering when I decide? A few of my priorities are as follows:
1. Having a somewhat normal family life
2. Working Hours
3. Stress
4. Money

What else should I consider? Anyone have a similar experience?

thanks for all your feedback.
 
MD/PhD is first and foremost concerned with research, and as such do take people from all over the stats map.. at least throw your hat in the ring. If you really want to be clinically involved though, I'd rather go with MD than a PhD. You can do research of all kinds as an MD, including basic.
 
On average:

1. Having a somewhat normal family life

PhD

2. Working Hours

PhD

3. Stress

PhD

4. Money

MD

Though the exact answers really depend on the field for the PhD.
 
On average:

1. Having a somewhat normal family life

PhD

2. Working Hours

PhD

3. Stress

PhD

4. Money

MD

Though the exact answers really depend on the field for the PhD.

As you hinted, this is true unless you get one of the apparently many PIs who believe their students/post-docs are slaves, in which case you may lose years of your life trying to satisfy their increasingly unreasonable whims while they ask you to work 80+ hours a week, take minimal vacations, produce results yesterday, work nights and weekends, and give up your significant other.
 
As you hinted, this is true unless you get one of the apparently many PIs who believe their students/post-docs are slaves, in which case you may lose years of your life trying to satisfy their increasingly unreasonable whims while they ask you to work 80+ hours a week, take minimal vacations, produce results yesterday, work nights and weekends, and give up your significant other.
To be honest, I was mostly thinking about the post-degree period.

Yeah though- brutal PI is brutal.
 
What should I be considering when I decide:

1. Having a somewhat normal family life
2. Working Hours
3. Stress
4. Money

What else should I consider?

Good lord, this is an important question! What are the reasons you are thinking you want to go to med school? Then I'll give you my take.
 
Well, As a child growing up I was very intensely involved in sports. I had endured numerous injuries and was exposed to a large extent to the patient side of things. I really liked and appreciated the care that physicians give from the ER to the ortho surgeon who did my acl surgery. Basically I have wanted to go to medical school since third grade. I have never really considered anything else, until now. I do not come from money(I am the first in my family to go to college) so getting into an absurd amount of debt for a MD is beyond terrifying the heck out of me. Where a PhD program will allow me to live completely independent of my parents and acquire minimal, if any, debt. But I do not want to make my life's work decision based on dollar signs, that just isn't the way I was raised.
 
Well, As a child growing up I was very intensely involved in sports. I had endured numerous injuries and was exposed to a large extent to the patient side of things. I really liked and appreciated the care that physicians give from the ER to the ortho surgeon who did my acl surgery. Basically I have wanted to go to medical school since third grade. I have never really considered anything else, until now. I do not come from money(I am the first in my family to go to college) so getting into an absurd amount of debt for a MD is beyond terrifying the heck out of me. Where a PhD program will allow me to live completely independent of my parents and acquire minimal, if any, debt. But I do not want to make my life's work decision based on dollar signs, that just isn't the way I was raised.

for the purely financial standpoint MD wins hands down. Sure you acquire debt, but that will be paid off after medical school, and docs on average make a lot more than research. If you go the MD route, you won't be reliant on parents, you'll be reliant on student loans. I'm not saying to go MD, I'm just saying that financially its probably the better option ( what field would the PhD be in?) As a PhD you'll be working a lot in a lab, and possibly end up teaching at least part time. As a doctor, well you'll be interacting with people more and doing procedures.
 
Field would be Oncology for PhD. For MD, I would love to become an Orthopedic Surgeon.
 
Field would be Oncology for PhD. For MD, I would love to become an Orthopedic Surgeon.

Those two jobs are absurdly different. You should figure out which you actually want to do.
 
Well, As a child growing up I was very intensely involved in sports. I had endured numerous injuries and was exposed to a large extent to the patient side of things. I really liked and appreciated the care that physicians give from the ER to the ortho surgeon who did my acl surgery. Basically I have wanted to go to medical school since third grade. I have never really considered anything else, until now. I do not come from money(I am the first in my family to go to college) so getting into an absurd amount of debt for a MD is beyond terrifying the heck out of me. Where a PhD program will allow me to live completely independent of my parents and acquire minimal, if any, debt. But I do not want to make my life's work decision based on dollar signs, that just isn't the way I was raised.

The debt is scary but you are right to look for other, more important factors to help you make the decision. As far as debt goes, if you end up in primary care, there are a lot of loan repayment programs that can help you erase your debt in a few years. If you end up specializing, you'll make enough money to pay off your loans. If you do an MD/PhD, you won't have debt. (why do you say you don't have the stats for this, btw? How are you confident you could get into med school but not get into to MD/PhD?) In any event, the debt is scary but you stop worrying about it after a while. I have yet to hear of a doctor defaulting on student loans.

I don't think there is a better career in the entire world than medicine. That's why I am a zealot. I do know that a lot of doctors hate their jobs and do not recommend a career in medicine to young people who are considering it. I would not want you to become one of those people.

3 out of your 4 priorities point to PhD and research (and all 4 if you are really worried about the debt). Ironically, I think that the first 3 are also things that many of the aforementioned unhappy docs failed to consider when choosing their career.

You can work part time in medicine, and you can run a private practice however you see fit. So if you get to that holy grail of running your own show, medicine does not have to compromise your family life. However:

  • It is important to note that by this time you will have spent a minimum of 7 years working your ass off and certainly compromising your family life to get there (probably longer...most people don't rock successful private practices right out of residency).
  • People always bring up opportunity cost, which is important. You can't spend those 7 years working on some other career.
It is easy to talk about 7 years like it will go by very quickly. But it won't. Residency is flipping hard, and you will deal with disgusting, smelly, and all around difficult stuff. I've mentioned some of this in other posts, but here are some things you will probably not be able to avoid:

-the smell of a large, infected wound (it will make your eyes water while you try not to gag)
-seeing/giving an enema
-being in a hospital, 100 yards away from someone who soiled their bed, and you can tell they are infected with C. diff because of how heinous it smells.

This list could go on and on, because you are around sick people all day, every day (depending on specialty). Bottom line is, a lot of doctors have gotten into medicine without a good idea of how hard of a job it is, and how disgusting it can be.

I look at the gross stuff and say "bfd." I look at the less-than-ideal hours and I know that I would rather do something I really like for 60 hours/week than something I don't like for 40 hours/week. You've got to make your own call on those things.

It's a typical cost-to-benefit, pros vs. cons sort of thing, but where a lot of people go wrong is 1.) Not really understanding all of the costs/cons and 2.) Having $$ as their top reason for going into medicine.

The costs are quite high, but if you really dig what medicine has to offer, so are the benefits.

My first impression is that research is a better, more comfortable fit for you. I would advise you to deliberately try to expose yourself to some of the unpleasant sides of medicine and hospitals (through shadowing/volunteering) before making your decision. The pros have to outweigh the cons for YOU.
 
Those two jobs are absurdly different. You should figure out which you actually want to do.

There is Orthopedic Oncology, but it can be a very depressing field. Outcomes tend to be a little worse once cancer has invaded your bones...these surgical cases also consist of a lot of drastic amputations.

Also, don't go into medicine unless you are open to the fact that you might not end up in ortho. You might, but you shouldn't go into medicine unless you also think some of its other specialties could be really gratifying for you.
 
ok. To answer one question. I have already been accepted to both and now need to decide on which one. I do not have my heart set on anything really, ortho is just an interest due to 1. love for sports and 2. first hand seeing the work done(although only one specialization). A few things I do not know about medicine are, do you need to have certain grades for some specialties to open? ie; do I need to be in the top 10 of my class to be a surgeon? Surgery has interested me from day 1 and I have always wanted to be one. ER is very interesting to me, but I do not really know much about it from the DR standpoint.
 
ok. To answer one question. I have already been accepted to both and now need to decide on which one. I do not have my heart set on anything really, ortho is just an interest due to 1. love for sports and 2. first hand seeing the work done(although only one specialization). A few things I do not know about medicine are, do you need to have certain grades for some specialties to open? ie; do I need to be in the top 10 of my class to be a surgeon? Surgery has interested me from day 1 and I have always wanted to be one. ER is very interesting to me, but I do not really know much about it from the DR standpoint.

Going into Ortho is "more competitive" (fuzzy concept) than going into General Surgery. You do not need to be in the top 10% of your class to go into general surgery. Couldn't tell you exact percentages to get into Ortho.

A lot of med schools are pass/fail for the first two years so your grades in the classroom are not as important as your grades during 3rd and 4th year clinicals. However, your first two years are supposed to prepare you for the boards and your board score will play a role in securing a competitive residency.

You don't need perfect grades or the highest board score to end up in Ortho. However, there are residencies at community hospitals no one has heard of, and there are residencies at top hospitals. Your 3rd and 4th year grades (evaluations from the docs who oversee your clinical rotations) and your board scores will determine what caliber of a residency you can secure, in terms of the hospital's reputation.
 
Are high grades in clinicals based on actual performance or Brown-nosing?
 
Are high grades in clinicals based on actual performance or Brown-nosing?

As I'm sure you could have guessed, the answer is both.

Most attendings don't like an out-and-out brown nose; some do.

You don't need to worry about this right now.
 
I think you need to talk to some folks in your field of interest and see where your interest lies. For one, it sounds like your physician shadowing is far from adequate to be able to make an informed decision. Medicine is a very broad field with a wide, wide possibility of specializations and practice environments. Even within a specialization there is a lot of variation depending on your practice type. You can be an orthopedist pulling 100-hr weeks or 50-hr weeks depending on your practice preferences. Who's to say you couldn't treat patients for x days/wk and run a lab on the side? I would strongly encourage you to explore medicine further, particularly academic medicine.
 
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