How to get into a top surgical residency.

[GypsyHummus]

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General surgery is the easiest. If you score around the 60th percentile on the comlex you'll probably match AOA general surgery somewhere. Ortho is probably the next realistic option. There were 100 ortho spots this year. You do, however, need to get around the 90th percentile and rotate at the program to even have a shot at matching. Then, after that, I'm not sure. There are like 24 ENT spots, 17 urology, 16 ophtho, and 14 neurosurgery spots. With numbers so small, you need good scores, but who you know becomes more important. I do not know how most people did in the match this year at my school, but I know at least 3 matched ortho, 2 matched general surgery, 1 urology, 1 neurosurgery, 1 ophtho( this one was Acgme, though).

Gotcha, so If you wanted to get into just a plain old general surgery program or ortho, it is feasible?

How hard is it to score a 60% on comlex?

 

[cliquesh]

Gotcha, so If you wanted to get into just a plain old general surgery program or ortho, it is feasible?

How hard is it to score a 60% on comlex?

Yea, general surgery is feasible and probably not too stressful. Orthopedics is possible too, but it will be a stressful time. Orthopedics programs will literally only interview you if you rotate at their program, so you may only get a handful of interview invites, like 1 to 6. I got around 40 invites and I'm a little stressed right now. I can't imagine how 3 invites feels.

The comlex is kind of a crap shoot, I don't think it's very hard to get a 60th percentile score. I don't even think getting in the 90 th percentile is too difficult. You really just need to put in the time and effort. Board exams are not an IQ test. They just test your knowledge. If you study enough, you should be ale to do really well.

 

[DrBumblebee]

Yea, general surgery is feasible and probably not too stressful. Orthopedics is possible too, but it will be a stressful time. Orthopedics programs will literally only interview you if you rotate at their program, so you may only get a handful of interview invites, like 1 to 6. I got around 40 invites and I'm a little stressed right now. I can't imagine how 3 invites feels.

The comlex is kind of a crap shoot, I don't think it's very hard to get a 60th percentile score. I don't even think getting in the 90 th percentile is too difficult. You really just need to put in the time and effort. Board exams are not an IQ test. They just test your knowledge. If you study enough, you should be ale to do really well.

Are they 3rd or 4th year rotations? How long should such a surgery/ortho rotation be? When is the best time to do them?

And, did you rotate at all 40 of those gas programs? It seems to me like impossible even to interview at that many sites in such a short time between 3rd and 4th years. 😱

 

[DrWily]

Are they 3rd or 4th year rotations? How long should such a surgery/ortho rotation be? When is the best time to do them?

And, did you rotate at all 40 of those gas programs? It seems to me like impossible even to interview at that many sites in such a short time between 3rd and 4th years. 😱

Usually elective rotations are 4th year (maybe 1 in 3rd yr if ur school is set up that way). Max rotations in one specialty vary per school, so I'll use my school as an example. We get max 3 rotations in any single specialty (could be 4 if you plead with the clinical director). Usually rotations are 4 weeks long but you can split that up into two weeks and two weeks. So technically you can do 6-8 locations but only 2 weeks each. 2 weeks is pretty short though and I would do a 4 week if you really want to do a residency at that location.

Don't really need to rotate at ACGME (generally) because it doesn't help much. Too many people applying for a spot and not enough rotation slots so PDs usually invite based off stats/written stuff. 40 invites to get ~10-15 real interviews is my guess. Absurd to interview at 40 places.

 

[cliquesh]

Usually elective rotations are 4th year (maybe 1 in 3rd yr if ur school is set up that way). Max rotations in one specialty vary per school, so I'll use my school as an example. We get max 3 rotations in any single specialty (could be 4 if you plead with the clinical director). Usually rotations are 4 weeks long but you can split that up into two weeks and two weeks. So technically you can do 6-8 locations but only 2 weeks each. 2 weeks is pretty short though and I would do a 4 week if you really want to do a residency at that location.

Don't really need to rotate at ACGME (generally) because it doesn't help much. Too many people applying for a spot and not enough rotation slots so PDs usually invite based off stats/written stuff. 40 invites to get ~10-15 real interviews is my guess. Absurd to interview at 40 places.

DrWily covered it pretty accurately. I did 3, 4 week, rotations in anesthiology. I kind of wish I rotated at a program I was really excited about, but I was worried about messing up my chances. I went on 20 something interviews.

You want to do your rotations early in your 4th year. The first day Acgme applications can be sent in is on sept. 15. I think AOA applications can be sent in on July 15.

 

[MedPR]

Usually elective rotations are 4th year (maybe 1 in 3rd yr if ur school is set up that way). Max rotations in one specialty vary per school, so I'll use my school as an example. We get max 3 rotations in any single specialty (could be 4 if you plead with the clinical director). Usually rotations are 4 weeks long but you can split that up into two weeks and two weeks. So technically you can do 6-8 locations but only 2 weeks each. 2 weeks is pretty short though and I would do a 4 week if you really want to do a residency at that location.

Don't really need to rotate at ACGME (generally) because it doesn't help much. Too many people applying for a spot and not enough rotation slots so PDs usually invite based off stats/written stuff. 40 invites to get ~10-15 real interviews is my guess. Absurd to interview at 40 places.

Yea in the MD world you usually only need to do aways if your stats are low. At least that's what my friends in MS3/MS4 have said.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[HalfListic]

DrWily covered it pretty accurately. I did 3, 4 week, rotations in anesthiology. I kind of wish I rotated at a program I was really excited about, but I was worried about messing up my chances. I went on 20 something interviews.

You want to do your rotations early in your 4th year. The first day Acgme applications can be sent in is on sept. 15. I think AOA applications can be sent in on July 15.

Wow...so many interviews.Im sure its a crazy and exciting time for you. I guess our applications will all go in on the same day by the time we are applying (if everything stays on track)...wonder when that will be.

 

[DrBumblebee]

Usually elective rotations are 4th year (maybe 1 in 3rd yr if ur school is set up that way). Max rotations in one specialty vary per school, so I'll use my school as an example. We get max 3 rotations in any single specialty (could be 4 if you plead with the clinical director). Usually rotations are 4 weeks long but you can split that up into two weeks and two weeks. So technically you can do 6-8 locations but only 2 weeks each. 2 weeks is pretty short though and I would do a 4 week if you really want to do a residency at that location.

Don't really need to rotate at ACGME (generally) because it doesn't help much. Too many people applying for a spot and not enough rotation slots so PDs usually invite based off stats/written stuff. 40 invites to get ~10-15 real interviews is my guess. Absurd to interview at 40 places.

Thanks for the explanations, DrWily.

 

[Dissected]

Don't really need to rotate at ACGME (generally) because it doesn't help much. Too many people applying for a spot and not enough rotation slots so PDs usually invite based off stats/written stuff. 40 invites to get ~10-15 real interviews is my guess. Absurd to interview at 40 places.

Meh, not my experience. I had some very positive feedback that led to interviews at a few of my top choice acgme programs. It can hurt you or do nothing, but if you do a good job it can certainly help, especially if you get a positive letter from a faculty member!

In fact, there are a good chunk of acgme programs that will not interview a DO applicant unless they have rotated. I am 100% sure about this. Numbers don't mean a thing if you are pre-screened.

 

[HalfListic]

Meh, not my experience. I had some very positive feedback that led to interviews at a few of my top choice acgme programs. It can hurt you or do nothing, but if you do a good job it can certainly help, especially if you get a positive letter from a faculty member!

In fact, there are a good chunk of acgme programs that will not interview a DO applicant unless they have rotated. I am 100% sure about this. Numbers don't mean a thing if you are pre-screened.

Thanks for posting this dissected...I heard this earlier from another student and wondered if others agreed.

It seemed like the consensus is that if you are DO, its almost necessary to do an "audition" rotation for the ACGME spots you'd like to be considered for.

 

[pre med 2014]

All types of surgical specialities are DO unfriendly. 36 of the 4600 DOs that graduated last year matched Acgme surgery. You could go to a top PM&R, family medicine, anesthiology, pathology or pyschiatry residency coming from a DO school. Everything else is really unlikely, even Ob/gyn, internal medicine and peds.

What you talkin bout Willis? Internal medicine is DO heavy specialty.

 

[Ost3oclast]

What you talkin bout Willis? Internal medicine is DO heavy specialty.

I believe he was only referring to top ACGME programs.

 

[cliquesh]

I believe he was only referring to top ACGME programs.

Yep, sorry for not being clear.

 

[113]

That would be a good point if people actually wanted those AOA spots. More than half of the AOA general surgery programs have unfilled slots. That speaks volumes.

Most DOs shoot for ACGME programs.

Add up all the major medical centers from the top 10 DO schools and see if you come up with the high points from Drexel alone.

Here's the high points from the first Drexel match list i could find on google:
The Brigham (harvard)
BIDMC (Harvard) x2
HUP (ie Penn) x 7
Columbia x 4
UCLA x 5
Duke x 2
Cleveland Clinic x 2
Hopkins
Mt Sinai x 2
UCSF
Yale x 4
Cornell
UVA x 5
I stopped counting after this

http://webcampus.drexelmed.edu/cdc/2011-MatchList.asp



Considering more than half of DOs end up in ACGME training programs already, your logic is flawwed.

Just read all 5 pages. Only the first couple pages, with attendings/residents contributing, are worth reading. Somewhere halfway down page 3, all the pre-DOs pile on and it all becomes nonsense.

The last couple pages, Instatewaiter brought the heat. Thanks bro.

To all the starry eyed pre-DOs, it's great to be optimistic, but it's better to be realistic.

 

[MedPR]

I don't think people realize how expensive post-graduate education. $4 million is pissing in the wind. That would cover 13 FM residents' post-grad education.

To give you an frame of reference, there are 100,000 current residents in the US.




No you don't. Add up all the major medical centers from the top 10 DO schools and see if you come up with the high points from Drexel alone.

Here's the high points from the first Drexel match list i could find on google:
The Brigham (harvard)
BIDMC (Harvard) x2
HUP (ie Penn) x 7
Columbia x 4
UCLA x 5
Duke x 2
Cleveland Clinic x 2
Hopkins
Mt Sinai x 2
UCSF
Yale x 4
Cornell
UVA x 5
I stopped counting after this

http://webcampus.drexelmed.edu/cdc/2011-MatchList.asp



Considering more than half of DOs end up in ACGME training programs already, your logic is flawwed.

Good post. Drexel isn't known for having a good match list for those not familiar.

 

[113]

MGH, BID or BWH or bust.

BIDMC is a good. But I'm tempted to say MGH and BWH is a clear step above BIDMC.
But you are a resident, so I will gladly defer to your expertise.

And to the pre-med who thought Sinai and CHA were competitive/prestigious. I say, CHALOL.

 

[HalfListic]

Just read all 5 pages. Only the first couple pages, with attendings/residents contributing, are worth reading. Somewhere halfway down page 3, all the pre-DOs pile on and it all becomes nonsense.

The last couple pages, Instatewaiter brought the heat. Thanks bro.

To all the starry eyed pre-DOs, it's great to be optimistic, but it's better to be realistic.

BIDMC is a good. But I'm tempted to say MGH and BWH is a clear step above BIDMC.
But you are a resident, so I will gladly defer to your expertise.

And to the pre-med who thought Sinai and CHA were competitive/prestigious. I say, CHALOL.

Hmmm, I'm not sure about this assessment.


This thread is silly...no getting around that. It could have been two posts long..

.1. The question: "Can DOs get in to "top" surgical residencies." and
2. the answer: "not really...the top ACGME surgical residencies are traditionally DO unfriendly."

No one really argues this.


BUT, the problem comes when people start speculating and misrepresenting the stats. You cant call AOA residency programs garbage, especially in a DO forum, and expect to applauded (except by a special type of pre-MD/MD student #inferioritycomplexMD).

You cant say that things will be worse for DOs in the future, when it seems that the opposite is happening, and especially not back it up. You must qualify statements like, "there will be fewer opportunities for DOs in the future" (which is false) with phrases like "at the large academic programs because of X,Y,Z"

And last, this is not "bringing the heat". Its poor rhetoric and should be scoffed:

I do think it's funny when first or 2nd year med students act like they know about how the match and residency selection work... but a pre-med. Ha! Next you can tell me what residency is like or how to do well on step 1. What a joke. In 4 years, when you've gone through the match, come back here and tell us about your experience.

People resort to this type of argument when they have nothing of substance to refute. I'd say MOST pre-med, 1st, and 2nd year students have a decent idea of "what residency is like" and they sure as hell better know "how to do well on step 1". Not that any of those remarks had anything to do with the thread.



Finally, I love when residents and attendings come share their knowledge and experience. But, if you come to this Pre-DO Forum, and condescend...don't expect a high five from anyone who has anything worthwhile to say. If anyone cared that much about rank...they would/should have done an SMP and got into an MD school or have gone to law school. I really dont think the rest of us care that much.




...b,idk. ijapm

 

[Dissected]

A large academic center is desirable for a few reasons:
1) You see more. Stuff gets sent to large centers because they can do more and treat more.

2) People with rare/undiagnosed diseases go to big hospitals when other hospitals can't figure out what is wrong with them (see #1)

3) The best and brightest are at big centers- you learn from the best in the field from people doing things others don't know how to do.

4) Autonomy tends to be higher at big centers- this is also a function of the quality of residents they get. The stronger the resident, the more likely they are going to be able to handle autonomy.

5) The Volume is usually higher at large centers. This means those 12 resdents have other cool cases to see. While at small centers, the residents don't see cool cases so when one comes in everyone crowds around.

This is mostly true. The higher quality DO programs get adequate time at these large centers, even if their home base is not one.

That would be a good point if people actually wanted those AOA spots. More than half of the AOA general surgery programs have unfilled slots. That speaks volumes.

Most DOs shoot for ACGME programs.

This is the most uninformed and untrue post I have ever seen you post. Are you reading the same match statistics I am? There were 6 unfilled spots in gsurg on monday, which will undoubtedly fill this week. In the past couple years it was 2-3 on match day.

http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2013prgstats.html
http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2012prgstats.html
http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2011prgstats.html

APPROVED POSITIONS =/= FUNDED POSITIONS. No program is going to offer an unfunded position in the match.

MOST DO's shoot for AOA spots. NONE at my school besides myself seriously considered the MD match. Most DO's are either too nervous to apply acgme, don't even consider doing it in the first place because there are plenty of decent AOA programs, or they apply to both (the vast MINORITY) and end up matching in the DO match because they find a program they like. There are qualified applicants every year that go acgme, but they are far outnumbered by applicants that match to AOA programs.

Pre-meds, take what instatewaiter has to say with a pound of salt. If not blatantly false, it is skewed in a very negative and/or misleadng way most of the time.

Wow. Shameless and straight out of your ***** 👎

 

[darklabel]

This is mostly true. The higher quality DO programs get adequate time at these large centers, even if their home base is not one.



This is the most uninformed and untrue post I have ever seen you post. Are you reading the same match statistics I am? There were 6 unfilled spots in gsurg on monday, which will undoubtedly fill this week. In the past couple years it was 2-3 on match day.

http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2013prgstats.html
http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2012prgstats.html
http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2011prgstats.html

MOST DO's shoot for AOA spots. NONE at my school besides myself seriously considered the MD match. Most DO's are either too nervous to apply acgme, don't even consider doing it in the first place because there are plenty of decent AOA programs, or they apply to both (the vast MINORITY) and end up matching in the DO match because they find a program they like. There are qualified applicants every year that go acgme, but they are far outnumbered by applicants that match to AOA programs.

Pre-meds, take what instatewaiter has to say with a pound of salt. If not blatantly false, it is skewed in a very negative way most of the time.

Wow. Shameless and straight out of your ***** 👎

With the merger though, those matriculating in 2013/2014 will have something much more different. Since it will be combined we will finally have the opportunity for both traditionally AOA and ACGME. No more of this "Once in AOA, you can't participate in the ACGME" match nonsense. I think thats why we don't see a lot of qualified DOs in ACGME programs unless they're particularly ballsy.

I also agree with Halflistic, I hate the utter negativity I sometimes encounter here, especially relating to the merger. I don't understand how people are under the impression that its all doom and gloom when last time I checked the AOA website, they seemed thrilled about the merger through their announcement. The fact we may finally only get one boards now and more respect from PDs is one step closer and something I applaud.

 

[Dissected]

With the merger though, those matriculating in 2013/2014 will have something much more different. Since it will be combined we will finally have the opportunity for both traditionally AOA and ACGME. No more of this "Once in AOA, you can't participate in the ACGME" match nonsense. I think thats why we don't see a lot of qualified DOs in ACGME programs unless they're particularly ballsy.

Yep, It will be very interesting to see what happens!

I also agree with Halflistic, I hate the utter negativity I sometimes encounter here, especially relating to the merger. I don't understand how people are under the impression that its all doom and gloom when last time I checked the AOA website, they seemed thrilled about the merger through their announcement. The fact we may finally only get one boards now and more respect from PDs is one step closer and something I applaud.

It is a step in the right direction in my opinion..hopefully it can be as seamless as they say it will be!

 

[HalfListic]

With the merger though, those matriculating in 2013/2014 will have something much more different. Since it will be combined we will finally have the opportunity for both traditionally AOA and ACGME. No more of this "Once in AOA, you can't participate in the ACGME" match nonsense. I think thats why we don't see a lot of qualified DOs in ACGME programs unless they're particularly ballsy.

I also agree with Halflistic, I hate the utter negativity I sometimes encounter here, especially relating to the merger. I don't understand how people are under the impression that its all doom and gloom when last time I checked the AOA website, they seemed thrilled about the merger through their announcement. The fact we may finally only get one boards now and more respect from PDs is one step closer and something I applaud.

Just to keep it in perspective, the traditions wont change in 2015 when accreditation combines. I dont think we'll see more DO's in the (now) ACGME residencies right aways, or any time soon. But it did get the ball rolling!!

What this did was simplify the match for DOs, which is great. It also avoided some impending sanctions that would have come down, which would have prevented AOA trained residents from completing any ACGME fellowships. So that was great to avoid.

It is a great step forward, and a good sign of cooperation.

 

[Dissected]

Just to keep it in perspective, the traditions wont change in 2015 when accreditation combines. I dont think we'll see more DO's in the (now) ACGME residencies right aways, or any time soon. But it did get the ball rolling!!

I think there will be a LOT more DO's in programs that are acgme right now. No way we can know for sure though...so for now we'll just have to bet on it. $1? $2?.

 

[Ost3oclast]

From the tone of the last couple pages of this thread, you would think that AOA trained osteopathic physicians are killing patients right and left....it seems like everybody has got to put their two cents in about much better they are than everyone else. Good lord.

Gentlemen, I think the next step of this competition involves everyone unzipping their pants. It would be just about as useful as this thread has become.

 

[HalfListic]

I think there will be a LOT more DO's in programs that are acgme right now. No way we can know for sure though...so for now we'll just have to bet on it. $1? $2?.

I would love it, and think thats where it headed. But I think it will be more of a slow process...but hey, Im down for $2

 

[113]

BUT, the problem comes when people start speculating and misrepresenting the stats. You cant call AOA residency programs garbage, especially in a DO forum, and expect to applauded (except by a special type of pre-MD/MD student #inferioritycomplexMD).

You cant say that things will be worse for DOs in the future, when it seems that the opposite is happening, and especially not back it up. You must qualify statements like, "there will be fewer opportunities for DOs in the future" (which is false) with phrases like "at the large academic programs because of X,Y,Z"

And last, this is not "bringing the heat". Its poor rhetoric and should be scoffed:

I don't really have the energy or desire to engage in an Internet argument. But I just want to say I can hear your jimmies rustling through my router.

I actually typed out a long post, but then just thought about Doritos instead.

Also, nice post Dissected.

 

[Ost3oclast]

I don't really have the energy or desire to engage in an Internet argument. But I just want to say I can hear your jimmies rustling through my router.

I actually typed out a long post, but then just thought about Doritos instead.

Also, nice post Dissected.

Mmmmmm doritos.....

 

[DrBumblebee]

I think there will be a LOT more DO's in programs that are acgme right now. No way we can know for sure though...so for now we'll just have to bet on it. $1? $2?.

This. +1 👍

 

[HalfListic]

I don't really have the energy or desire to engage in an Internet argument. But I just want to say I can hear your jimmies rustling through my router.

I actually typed out a long post, but then just thought about Doritos instead.

Also, nice post Dissected.

haha, well, if you find any..."energy" (read:"substance" 😉 ) any time in the future, Ill be here.


And yep, my jimmies were rustled, which is why I responded. My jimmies are extremely allergic to half truths. So, I guess, thanks for noticing the state of my jimmies...and on Valentines day to boot! 😍 haha, JK



I think I just set the story straight. Nothing more or less. Regardless, enjoy those Doritos.

 

[MedPR]

Just to keep it in perspective, the traditions wont change in 2015 when accreditation combines. I dont think we'll see more DO's in the (now) ACGME residencies right aways, or any time soon. But it did get the ball rolling!!

What this did was simplify the match for DOs, which is great. It also avoided some impending sanctions that would have come down, which would have prevented AOA trained residents from completing any ACGME fellowships. So that was great to avoid.

It is a great step forward, and a good sign of cooperation.

👍

I think there will be a LOT more DO's in programs that are acgme right now. No way we can know for sure though...so for now we'll just have to bet on it. $1? $2?.

Sure maybe in 2030 and beyond. Over the next decade I bet many PDs will see the number of DO applicants increase and wonder wth is going on. Then in 2026 and 2027 they'll start to realize they're throwing away a lot more applications than usual without giving them a good look. Then in 2028 and 2029 more DO applications will get a glance before going in the garbage. Then in 2030+ DOs will get more thorough looks and the qualified ones will start getting ranked higher.

 

[Dissected]

Sure maybe in 2030 and beyond. Over the next decade I bet many PDs will see the number of DO applicants increase and wonder wth is going on.

LOL.. wanna bet?

PD's are very aware of what is going on. I had some very frank discussions about the direction things are going with acgme PD's this year.

 

[HalfListic]

I think there will be a LOT more DO's in programs that are acgme right now. No way we can know for sure though...so for now we'll just have to bet on it. $1? $2?.

👍

Sure maybe in 2030 and beyond. Over the next decade I bet many PDs will see the number of DO applicants increase and wonder wth is going on. Then in 2026 and 2027 they'll start to realize they're throwing away a lot more applications than usual without giving them a good look. Then in 2028 and 2029 more DO applications will get a glance before going in the garbage. Then in 2030+ DOs will get more thorough looks and the qualified ones will start getting ranked higher.

maybe somewhere in between these two thoughts...

 

[MedPR]

LOL.. wanna bet?

PD's are very aware of what is going on. I had some very frank discussions about the direction things are going with acgme PD's this year.

Do I want to bet against the fact that some PDs know what's going on? Of course not. Do I want to bet that many PDs are aware of the merger, but will still be surprised by the larger than usual influx of DO applications two years from now? Yes.

Everyone on SDN knows the MCAT is changing. I'm sure people who frequent the MCAT Q&A will still be surprised by the increasing variety of questions being asked though.

 

[Dissected]

Do I want to bet against the fact that some PDs know what's going on? Of course not. Do I want to bet that many PDs are aware of the merger, but will still be surprised by the larger than usual influx of DO applications two years from now? Yes.

Everyone on SDN knows the MCAT is changing. I'm sure people who frequent the MCAT Q&A will still be surprised by the increasing variety of questions being asked though.

That's really not how it works, but you are entitled to your opinion! PD's know it's coming.

 

[MedPR]

That's really not how it works, but you are entitled to your opinion! PD's know it's coming.

I guess I'm not being clear. PDs know it's coming. That doesn't mean they have reasonable expectations or know exactly what's going to happen.

We know when winter is coming. That doesn't mean we won't be surprised if it's -20 degrees on Christmas morning.

 

[Dissected]

I guess I'm not being clear. PDs know it's coming. That doesn't mean they have reasonable expectations or know exactly what's going to happen.

We know when winter is coming. That doesn't mean we won't be surprised if it's -20 degrees on Christmas morning.

You can keep posting, it's fun to watch! I think I've said that before to you on occasion.

 

[MedPR]

You can keep posting, it's fun to watch! I think I've said that before to you on occasion.

Wait did I miss something? Are you a DO 4th year student?

Read the thread title and kindly gtfo of this thread. Your word vomit is not welcome here.

You're like two different people.

 

[darklabel]

I guess I'm not being clear. PDs know it's coming. That doesn't mean they have reasonable expectations or know exactly what's going to happen.

We know when winter is coming. That doesn't mean we won't be surprised if it's -20 degrees on Christmas morning.

It was actually a hot Christmas this year so your point is moot...😀

But seriously, I doubt it will be 2030+. I think once the merger happens PDs will actually look at DO applicants. Also, more DOs will rotate in ACGME and show them that they know a thing or two, maybe change some minds, etc.

I don't think we'll see a large influx of DOs being accepted in the beginning (first few years), but I definitely think PDs will at least give DO applications a second look this time around thanks to the merger. Also DO friendly places may be even more DO friendly now that there is a unified match.

Than again we're all just speculating.

 

[Dissected]

You're like two different people.

Two different threads bro!

 

[HalfListic]

Do I want to bet against the fact that some PDs know what's going on? Of course not. Do I want to bet that many PDs are aware of the merger, but will still be surprised by the larger than usual influx of DO applications two years from now? Yes.

Everyone on SDN knows the MCAT is changing. I'm sure people who frequent the MCAT Q&A will still be surprised by the increasing variety of questions being asked though.

Im not sure if theyll be surprised, since more applications will probably be expected with the streamlined match.


But, I dont think this is really an issue, one was or another since their surprise wont really change anything.


What will be interesting is HOW DO applicants will be received at those programs. As in, accepted in greater numbers? At all? no change?


Thats anyone guess at this point.


Edit: One reason why I think its a bit more reasonable to expect slow change is because there are still a limited number of residency slots, and a growing number of DO and MD students. And, its still to be determined if, and how, MD studetns will be accepted to ACGME/AOA residencies of the future. So, I think we can expect some change, but nothing too big because MD students still need a place to go too. Also, I think a majority of DO students will continue to apply more heavily to AOA/ACGME programs for a number of reasons.

But, it will give top DO applicants more options, IMO.

 

[DrBumblebee]

I think the AOA residency programs were created by the DO schools, which are "private" medical schools. I'd like to know who's the "owner" of the residency programs that are managed by the ACGME?

 

[HalfListic]

I think the AOA residency programs were created by the DO schools, which are "private" medical schools. I'd like to know who's the "owner" of the residency programs that are managed by the ACGME?

The ACGME, like the the AHA( and now AOA), is a branch of the AMA.

(unless Im mixing this up...though I think Im right)

 

[DrBumblebee]

The ACGME, like the the AHA( and now AOA), is a branch of the AMA.

(unless Im mixing this up...though I think Im right)

Okay, but who created and have been paying for the ACGME residency programs? The federal government, local tax payers, etc.? Who?

It's clear for AOA residency programs. They've been paid for by the DO schools, which are private.

 

[DrWily]

Okay, but who created and have been paying for the ACGME residency programs? The federal government, local tax payers, etc.? Who?

It's clear for AOA residency programs. They've been paid for by the DO schools, which are private.

I believe funding for GME comes from Medicaid.

 

[cliquesh]

I believe funding for GME comes from Medicaid.

Yep. Aoa and Acgme residencies are both primarily funded by Medicare/federal government

 

[HalfListic]

It's clear for AOA residency programs. They've been paid for by the DO schools, which are private.

This is incorrect, actually.

see below

I believe funding for GME comes from Medicaid.

Yep. Aoa and Acgme residencies are both primarily funded by Medicare/federal government

Yes...and this is the main reason why there is a bottle neck on GME expansion. Id say this may be the #1 big issue for med people (students, docs, academics, activists, fanatics 😉 etc...) should be getting well versed in and hopefully coming up with ideas for.

 

[487806]

You're like two different people.

 

[Lys Ile Glu Leu]

From the tone of the last couple pages of this thread, you would think that AOA trained osteopathic physicians are killing patients right and left....it seems like everybody has got to put their two cents in about much better they are than everyone else. Good lord.

Gentlemen, I think the next step of this competition involves everyone unzipping their pants. It would be just about as useful as this thread has become.

👍

 

[as1212559]

it's clear for aoa residency programs. They've been paid for by the do schools, which are private.

wat

 

[MedPR]

Okay, but who created and have been paying for the ACGME residency programs? The federal government, local tax payers, etc.? Who?

It's clear for AOA residency programs. They've been paid for by the DO schools, which are private.

Source?

 

[as1212559]