How to get out after 4 years?

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navydentist

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navydentist said:
I'm serving payback for the 4year HPSP contract. My active duty obligation is through June 2016. My current assignment has a PRD of July 2015. I'm currently trying to negotiate orders for my final year but I'm being told that to get out in 2016 I have to take a 2year operational assignment (that somehow I can get out of after 1year).

I'm very hesitant to take orders that are beyond my "get out" date. What are my rights here?
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You can refuse to accept orders that require an extension to your active duty obligation. Unless there is an order from the President, you cannot be required to serve beyond your contract term, unless you first agree to do so. The most likely thing the Navy will do is extend your present orders to your EAOS date and not move you anywhere.
 
Taking CONUS orders requires 2 years on station regardless of your EAOS. So if you took PCS orders when your current tour ends you would have to wait until 2017 to get out. It sounds like they are trying to get you to accept a crappy job right now that will line you up for getting out in 2016. Don't try and negotiate orders for your final year. orbitsurgMD is right, just tell them you want to extend your existing orders until your end of service.
 
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orbitsurgMD said:
You can refuse to accept orders that require an extension to your active duty obligation. Unless there is an order from the President, you cannot be required to serve beyond your contract term, unless you first agree to do so. The most likely thing the Navy will do is extend your present orders to your EAOS date and not move you anywhere.
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Cooperd0g said:
Taking CONUS orders requires 2 years on station regardless of your EAOS. So if you took PCS orders when your current tour ends you would have to wait until 2017 to get out. It sounds like they are trying to get you to accept a crappy job right now that will line you up for getting out in 2016. Don't try and negotiate orders for your final year. orbitsurgMD is right, just tell them you want to extend your existing orders until your end of service.
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funaswc said:
You could get out of a CONUS sea duty tour after one year, but I agree with everyone above saying that you should simply request to extend a year at your current billet. Best of luck!

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-n...an/1000/1300Assignment/Documents/1301-108.pdf
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^^^Ditto^^

I would recommend not taking another CONUS assignment. Each CONUS PCS order has a 2 year obligation. I also have a strong suspicion that the information you were given of being able to leave that PCS order after one year is bogus or a blatant lie. Just have them extend your assignment at your current duty location.
 
Sure but not much point. You have no basis to decline conus orders that don't lengthen your obliserv.


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
 
Did you tell your detailer you're getting out? If so, that would explain the ****ty treatment you're getting.
 
They can give your billet to someone else and leave your command overmanned. They can det you out to other places (unaccompanied, if you have a family) if you are overmanned and they need a dentist elsewhere, so you could be sent to a ship where they needed a dentist or somewhere remote, so there are ways they could use you if they needed that don't require you getting new PCS orders. They could break their rules and move you permanently, but they cannot force you to extend beyond your date of obligated service against your wishes.
 
navydentist said:
Update on old thread... so to reiterate, my obligation is until June 2016 but my current PRD is July 2015 so they wrote me 2 year orders to an operational billet for July 2015 to July 2017. I just received the written orders. As I understand there is a minimum time on station of 12 mo with 24 mo CONUS sea orders. So this would require me to stay until July 2016, which is beyond my obligation.

Can I actually refuse this? Or will they just change the PRD on my current orders to June and force me to move anyway?
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What kind of operational billet are you going to? ship, vs usmc? (that might matter).
 
Should be same for all branches but I know through the army regulations it specifically addresses that a person can not be given orders that would extend beyond your ADSO. If that were to occur there is suppose to be counseling that occurs to actually warn you of this. Also if you don't agree then they can't force u to stay beyond your ADSO. The detailer can stick you in a ****ty assignment but only if they can get you moved in time that you again don't go beyond your ADSO. Conus moves incur 1 year ADSOs unless Hawaii and some other unique places. Oconus with family max 3 years. Certain situations and locations are in between.
Likely your detailer is just a *****.
 
navydentist said:
Update on old thread... so to reiterate, my obligation is until June 2016 but my current PRD is July 2015 so they wrote me 2 year orders to an operational billet for July 2015 to July 2017. I just received the written orders. As I understand there is a minimum time on station of 12 mo with 24 mo CONUS sea orders. So this would require me to stay until July 2016, which is beyond my obligation.

Can I actually refuse this? Or will they just change the PRD on my current orders to June and force me to move anyway?
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Where are you at?

What are they offering?

You can PM me if you are worried about being identified by someone in your chain of command.


If they are offering you what sounds like decent duty, and taking it only means you have to serve there a full year, which would just be one month of extra time in service (if I'm understanding the dates and obligations correctly), then probably wouldn't be a bad thing to take it and go quietly. You probably already know that if you squawk too loud in the Navy Dental Corps, you are basically gonna get boned.


I don't think they can extend your obligated service, unless something gets slipped by you because you accept it when you take a new duty station.


The Navy was pretty bad about hosing you once they knew you were planning on getting out, when I was in.


I still remember at morning quarters when the CO and Clinic Director were talking about hosing over a LT who was getting out, another Commander in the room blurted out "why the hell do we gotta give everybody a kick in the ass on their way out the door??".
 
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DocJL said:
Where are you at?

What are they offering?

You can PM me if you are worried about being identified by someone in your chain of command.


If they are offering you what sounds like decent duty, and taking it only means you have to serve there a full year, which would just be one month of extra time in service (if I'm understanding the dates and obligations correctly), then probably wouldn't be a bad thing to take it and go quietly. You probably already know that if you squawk too loud in the Navy Dental Corps, you are basically gonna get boned.


I don't think they can extend your obligated service, unless something gets slipped by you because you accept it when you take a new duty station.


The Navy was pretty bad about hosing you once they knew you were planning on getting out, when I was in.


I still remember at morning quarters when the CO and Clinic Director were talking about hosing over a LT who was getting out, another Commander in the room blurted out "why the hell do we gotta give everybody a kick in the ass on their way out the door??".
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That's not universally true. Most officers can get out pretty gracefully, there's a considerable amount of admin that needs to be done (taps class, etc), but once youre approved for separation you should be able to get it done without a hitch. Occasionally, there's the a**hole officer that feels the need to make a public display of his or her separation; that person might get some special attention. But otherwise, it's usually a smooth
process once approved.

Bupers actually takes end of obligation dates pretty seriously. To navydentist: can go ahead and request for separation when the time comes. Your chain of command will have to approve it, it takes more admin for them to actually deny it. Likewise with respect to PERS. unless there's a dire operational need to keep you where you're at, it'll likely be approved and you can separate
 
DrMetal said:
That's not universally true. Most officers can get out pretty gracefully, there's a considerable amount of admin that needs to be done (taps class, etc), but once youre approved for separation you should be able to get it done without a hitch. Occasionally, there's the a**hole officer that feels the need to make a public display of his or her separation; that person might get some special attention. But otherwise, it's usually a smooth
process once approved.

Bupers actually takes end of obligation dates pretty seriously. To navydentist: can go ahead and request for separation when the time comes. Your chain of command will have to approve it, it takes more admin for them to actually deny it. Likewise with respect to PERS. unless there's a dire operational need to keep you where you're at, it'll likely be approved and you can separate
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Agree with your statement, in general.

Personally I had no problems with my own separation.



I do see that you are a physician.
Your experience in the Medical Corps is probably more dissimilar to the experience of a junior Navy Dental Officer than you might think.


The corporate culture, if you will, has never been the same for medical and dental.
 
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navydentist said:
Update:

I emailed Bethesda to verify my "get out" date. They are saying your get out date is 4 years from the ADSD (active duty start date) plus the rest of that month to bring you to the first of the next month. I wasn't aware I signed a contract to serve for 4 years and 1 month. Has anyone heard of this policy?
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Yup. One last KITN. My favorite part of this was being told that everyone is surprised by it but its whats in the computer. I ended up taking a bunch of leave that I would have sold back and did a bunch of Tues-Thurs leave periods to maximize the benefit. I wouldn't have pulled that if I hadn't had to go back to my employer and beg them to let me start a month later.
 
I showed up for internship 12 June, started my payback 1 July, and my ETS date reads 30 June. Literally every other person that I know that had similar starting conditions got out on 30 June (but left earlier due to taking one or two months of terminal leave)
 
My experience is what psychbender describes. Ended residency on 30 June, began payback on 1 July, will separate at the stroke of midnight on 2 July. For some reason the Army makes you separate one day after the completion of your contract. I guess there must be a difference between how the services handle this.
 
For Navy: Terminal leave is at the discretion of your command (0-infinity). Your separation date within your separation month is at the discretion of your command. Your separation month is calculated based on the month after your obligation ends.
In my case: 30 days of separation leave. Allowed to separate on the first of the month. Still obligated 17 days past what I should have been based on my arrival date back to residency from GMO-land way 10 years prior. Could have been worse but still pissed me off that I was supposed to be grateful to be allowed to separate late.
 
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