How to interpret reinvented GPAs (if at all) with MSAR?

[Python Forever]

For students who underwent a long but successful post-bacc (80+ units), and recovered from a sub 3.0 GPA, how should one interpret their performance using the MSAR?

For example, I'm looking at a 3.3x cGPA and 3.4x sGPA depending on how the next year plays out for me. I had a 2.5, but bounced back with a 4.0 post-bacc over something around 75 units, and will enroll in about 12-16 more. Reading through Goro's list of schools that reward reinvention, I see that there are some top tier schools on the list, like Columbia and NYU. However, these schools have 10th percentile GPA's of 3.6+. Does this mean that I shouldn't apply to these schools despite reinventing (obviously these are amazing schools, and I'm not competitive for them; just needed examples)?

Just curious as to how I should interpret a reinvented GPA (if at all) for school targets using the MSAR. Thank you.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Goro]

MSAR is not helpful in the way you wish it to be.

You can glean some useful info from how many matriculants have either graduate degrees or enter from post-bac programs (In the Acceptance Data section)

 

[Python Forever]

MSAR is not helpful in the way you wish it to be.

You can glean some useful info from how many matriculants have either graduate degrees or enter from post-bac programs (In the Acceptance Data section)

Are DIY post-baccs included as well?

Also, then how should I find targets using the MSAR?

 

[Goro]

Are DIY post-baccs included as well?
I doubt it.

Also, then how should I find targets using the MSAR?
You can't, sort of. A rule of thumb is to use your reinvention sGPA as your real sGPA and cGPA.

MSAR can tell you which schools to avoid due to IS favoritism.

remember, reinvention is not about the GPA anymore. It's about proving the you of now is not the you of then.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Are DIY post-baccs included as well?
I doubt it.

Also, then how should I find targets using the MSAR?
You can't, sort of. A rule of thumb is to use your reinvention sGPA as your real sGPA and cGPA.

MSAR can tell you which schools to avoid due to IS favoritism.

remember, reinvention is not about the GPA anymore. It's about proving the you of now is not the you of then.

My strategy was to pick a mix of schools that matched my reinvention GPA and that matched my real GPA. Some of the ones who matched my real GPA ghosted me, and some of the ones that matched my reinvention GPA ghosted me, but I got hits from both groups. I also had a high MCAT, so I don't know how that threw into the mix.

 

[Python Forever]

Are DIY post-baccs included as well?
I doubt it.

Also, then how should I find targets using the MSAR?
You can't, sort of. A rule of thumb is to use your reinvention sGPA as your real sGPA and cGPA.

MSAR can tell you which schools to avoid due to IS favoritism.

remember, reinvention is not about the GPA anymore. It's about proving the you of now is not the you of then.

Got it. I have a 4.0 over mostly science courses taken at a 4-year (should be like 90 units by the time I’m done), but they are not as rigorous as my undergrad institution, ranking wise. That shouldn’t matter right?

 

[Goro]

Got it. I have a 4.0 over mostly science courses taken at a 4-year (should be like 90 units by the time I’m done), but they are not as rigorous as my undergrad institution, ranking wise. That shouldn’t matter right?

Correct

 

[Python Forever]

My strategy was to pick a mix of schools that matched my reinvention GPA and that matched my real GPA. Some of the ones who matched my real GPA ghosted me, and some of the ones that matched my reinvention GPA ghosted me, but I got hits from both groups. I also had a high MCAT, so I don't know how that threw into the mix.

What were your stats, if you don't mind me asking? Pre-invention/post-invention GPAs and MCAT? It'd be a helpful "guide number." Thanks.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

What were your stats, if you don't mind me asking? Pre-invention/post-invention GPAs and MCAT? It'd be a helpful "guide number." Thanks.

Total overall GPA was 3.43, sGPA was 3.61. My GPA without my postbacc was like a 3.3. My postbacc GPA was a 4.0. My MCAT was a 519.

 

[medicalschooljunkie]

Are DIY post-baccs included as well?
I doubt it.

Also, then how should I find targets using the MSAR?
You can't, sort of. A rule of thumb is to use your reinvention sGPA as your real sGPA and cGPA.

MSAR can tell you which schools to avoid due to IS favoritism.

remember, reinvention is not about the GPA anymore. It's about proving the you of now is not the you of then.

ok so reinvention is not about GPA anymore but how does it help you from getting screened out for not having the overall cut off gpa? Im hoping my post bac 85 credits 4.0 gpa counts for something.

 

[Ad2b]

ok so reinvention is not about GPA anymore but how does it help you from getting screened out for not having the overall cut off gpa? Im hoping my post bac 85 credits 4.0 gpa counts for something.

It does.

On your AMCAS thing that is sent to the school it will show your ugrad GPA (at graduation) and post-bacc (after graduation).

So, for me, it shows (please don't giggle)

1986: 2.196
2019: 3.89

There is no way for me to know how schools will look at those 2 GPAs, so the best way to help myself is awesome MCAT (working on that), and then roll the dice by looking at the MSAR

Your GPA of 4.0 WILL count for something, just maybe not Harvard "something" ... how was the MCAT?

 

[medicalschooljunkie]

It does.

On your AMCAS thing that is sent to the school it will show your ugrad GPA (at graduation) and post-bacc (after graduation).

So, for me, it shows (please don't giggle)

1986: 2.196
2019: 3.89

There is no way for me to know how schools will look at those 2 GPAs, so the best way to help myself is awesome MCAT (working on that), and then roll the dice by looking at the MSAR

Your GPA of 4.0 WILL count for something, just maybe not Harvard "something" ... how was the MCAT?

ok thanks for the breakdown! im scheduled for the MCAT in May.

 

[medicalschooljunkie]

It does.

On your AMCAS thing that is sent to the school it will show your ugrad GPA (at graduation) and post-bacc (after graduation).

So, for me, it shows (please don't giggle)

1986: 2.196
2019: 3.89

There is no way for me to know how schools will look at those 2 GPAs, so the best way to help myself is awesome MCAT (working on that), and then roll the dice by looking at the MSAR

Your GPA of 4.0 WILL count for something, just maybe not Harvard "something" ... how was the MCAT?

and you graduated from college in 1986? that's cool it's never too late

 

[Goro]

ok so reinvention is not about GPA anymore but how does it help you from getting screened out for not having the overall cut off gpa? Im hoping my post bac 85 credits 4.0 gpa counts for something.

At some schools, you will get screened out. It's a seller's market, and they can afford to turn candidates like you away.

But other schools really do engage in holistic review of apps and reward reinvention. For example, note what Wayne State has to say:

If an applicant has a less than competitive GPA, our Committee recommends 20 credits of coursework in didactic science (BCPM) either as a post-bachelor student or in a graduate program before application. If an applicant has 20 credits of coursework in didactic science (BCPM) either as a post-bachelor or graduate student on the transcript when they apply, the Committee will consider that science GPA instead of the undergraduate science GPA. The Committee is looking for a strong science GPA as evidence that an applicant can be successful in medical school.

https://admissions.med.wayne.edu/pdfs/self-assessment.pdf

As an aside, very few people seem to bother with actually going to admissions websites, even if they have hundreds or even thousands of hours of research activity.

So go look up what the schools have to say on this matter!

 

[Ad2b]

and you graduated from college in 1986? that's cool it's never too late

yeah, sort of; my senior year was 1986... and thanks

 

[chemdoctor]

It does.

On your AMCAS thing that is sent to the school it will show your ugrad GPA (at graduation) and post-bacc (after graduation).

So, for me, it shows (please don't giggle)

1986: 2.196
2019: 3.89

There is no way for me to know how schools will look at those 2 GPAs, so the best way to help myself is awesome MCAT (working on that), and then roll the dice by looking at the MSAR

Your GPA of 4.0 WILL count for something, just maybe not Harvard "something" ... how was the MCAT?

That’s damn impressive btw!! 23 years?! Damn man!

 

[Ad2b]

That’s damn impressive btw!! 23 years?! Damn man!

ha! some might say stupid, ill advised but I'm part Prussian, German, Austrian (pretty much all the stubborn nationalities) so, screw it! All. In. YOLO.

 

[Calizboosted76]

At some schools, you will get screened out. It's a seller's market, and they can afford to turn candidates like you away.

But other schools really do engage in holistic review of apps and reward reinvention. For example, note what Wayne State has to say:

If an applicant has a less than competitive GPA, our Committee recommends 20 credits of coursework in didactic science (BCPM) either as a post-bachelor student or in a graduate program before application. If an applicant has 20 credits of coursework in didactic science (BCPM) either as a post-bachelor or graduate student on the transcript when they apply, the Committee will consider that science GPA instead of the undergraduate science GPA. The Committee is looking for a strong science GPA as evidence that an applicant can be successful in medical school.

https://admissions.med.wayne.edu/pdfs/self-assessment.pdf

As an aside, very few people seem to bother with actually going to admissions websites, even if they have hundreds or even thousands of hours of research activity.

So go look up what the schools have to say on this matter!

How is this effected, (or reinvention for that matter) if it wasn’t a post bacc you started doing well in, rather it was the last 60 credit hours of your bachelors? You and I have talked privately via message about my situation, just a curious question though.

 

[Goro]

How is this effected, (or reinvention for that matter) if it wasn’t a post bacc you started doing well in, rather it was the last 60 credit hours of your bachelors? You and I have talked privately via message about my situation, just a curious question though.

Having strong SO/JR/SR years

 

[Calizboosted76]

Having strong SO/JR/SR years

It would still be looked at favorably? Even though it isn’t a post bacc?

 

[Goro]

It would still be looked at favorably? Even though it isn’t a post bacc?

Yes. A number of schools say so on their admissions websites (like Wayne State. U of UT used to).

 

[Calizboosted76]

I advise students with atypical, reinvented, or otherwise unusual GPA to analyze what the can defend currently (ie what kind of GPA do you have now and do to you the evidence it is sustainable) and come up with an "effective" target GPA. To do that, you need to see what your grades look like in an AMCAS GPA Grid. So if you had 80-90 units of 4.0 work, you can defend 3.8+ GPA effectively. However, if you do, you need to address this in PS in one sentence or less along the lines "while earlier academic work is suffered from immaturity, my recent over 80 credits at 4.0 work show my true ability" That's it. A single sentence or less that starts with the briefest reference possible to the initial issue but always, always ends on the up note

What if the course work was all upper level sciences and it was only around 56 credit hours but you consistently got a 3.89? Would that still be worth briefly mentioning in the PS?