I've recently gotten an acceptance from one DO school and been waitlisted at another and I was just wondering if anyone has any tips as to how I should prepare for medical school and also how I can set myself apart to compete with MDs at very competitive residencies. I understand that USMLE board scores and LORs are very important but are there any other factors that will make me a very competitive applicant for top residency programs? Thanks!
How to stand out as a DO for competitive residencies
- Thread starter shayvenk
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You shouldn't be worrying about residency yet.
By the time med school chews your soul out and makes you question why you went to a DO program, you'll take what you can get.
Just work hard and focus on classes.
Also... there are hundreds of these threads on here my man. May wanna search for them.
By the time med school chews your soul out and makes you question why you went to a DO program, you'll take what you can get.
Just work hard and focus on classes.
Also... there are hundreds of these threads on here my man. May wanna search for them.
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I don't know the answer to this. I was told by current medical students that during rotations at the large hospitals there is competition to get 1 on 1 time with attendings. The time to develop a relationship is short. I am just going to try and be as pleasant as I can to everyone in the hospital.
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http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/NRMP-2016-Program-Director-Survey.pdf
This goes for MD and DO students. Its a very important document to look over.
A
AnatomyGrey12
Start by doing well in classes. Worry about things one step at a time.
Overall there really isn't some trick:
-Get good grades
-Kill USMLE
-Solid research
-LORs from some known people
-Audition well at the programs you are. interested in
-Get a little bit lucky
That's about it. Everyone wants there to be some trick and there isn't.
Overall there really isn't some trick:
-Get good grades
-Kill USMLE
-Solid research
-LORs from some known people
-Audition well at the programs you are. interested in
-Get a little bit lucky
That's about it. Everyone wants there to be some trick and there isn't.
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No. I literally meant DO programs. The time we waste on OMM is waste of time and another thing to study for that I will never ever use in my life.
I do not care about "preventative care".
You know what's preventative?
Not being ****ing fat, out of shape, smoking, and drinking yourself to an early grave like 90% of Americans are doing.
Once they come to me, what do they expect? I can undo all of the damage they have done to themselves over the decades?
Pshhh. Wishful thinking. I had to preach all that preventative, holistic crap to get in and am glad I am in but let's be real you guys.
The only way for people to truly "heal holistically" is putting down that donut, having discipline, and working on themselves.
But I can't complain. If it weren't for all of the fat slobs, and smokers, and drinkers, and folks with ****ty health, I wouldn't look forward to a nice income and job in the future.
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There are worse fates than an OMM class. Like sun burns in the Caribbean...
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68PGunner
Why is everyone whining about the time spent on OMM? I literally spent close to zero time on OMM. I just got my OMM midterm back: 92% on the written exam and 96% on the practical. That class is ridiculously chill.
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When you have to cram 30 moves and their bull**** rules and history while trying to study for a neuro final and an anatomy practical..
It's a different story.
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68PGunner
1) Kill Step 1
2) Kill 3 yr rotation grades
3) Killer LOR
4) Killer Research
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100) Try not to fail a class, an exam, or a final grade C in any class during your first 2 years
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68PGunner
Yeah... so? Still an easy and chill class. Sorry, dude. I can't sympathize with the people whining about this class, considering that it only requires me a day of solid cramming to nail that written and practical. No, I give zero efff about this class and am only aiming for at least a B. I don't touch the material for this class until 5 days before the exam.
As others have mentioned, high board scores, good letters, and meaniful research. The first one, high board scores, can probably be achieved by most DO students with the right resources and motivations. The last two, good letters and research, are harder for osteopathic students and you have to go out of your way to find them. When I say "good" LORs I'm not only talking about the actual content of the recommendation, but also the quality of the letter writer. A good letter from someone "important" can go far. Pretty much all of the USMDs we interview have LORs from their schools' anesthesiology department chair, which is something I did not have access to. The same applies to research, too. Not all research is valued the same.
By the way, an average usmle score (or less in some cases) with no major red flags is kind of all you need to match family med, internal med, peds, ob/gyn, pathology, pm&r, radiology, neurology, anesthesia, and psych. You might not match at the best program, but you'll likely match somewhere.
By the way, an average usmle score (or less in some cases) with no major red flags is kind of all you need to match family med, internal med, peds, ob/gyn, pathology, pm&r, radiology, neurology, anesthesia, and psych. You might not match at the best program, but you'll likely match somewhere.
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It still is a useless class that could be spent studying for other material.
OPP isn't a hard class but it still is a timesink.. unless you find cramming bullcrap material like OPP fun.
But I agree witchu
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Lol if you hate OMM and preventative care so much why did you go to DO school? Nobody forced you to go the Osteopathic route so stop complaining and be grateful you have the opportunity to become a physician.
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Because I didn't have the stats to get into a MD program and I wasn't willing to go to the hell that is the Caribbean.
EDIT:
Saw you were a pre-med.
Yeah... you really have no horse in this race yet besides all the glamour and starry-eyed nonsense that you see as a pre-med during interviews.
We all were there a few months ago.
You'll see.
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LOL Not all OMM classes a created equal. Most dudes that got in the 90% for my class usually studied at least 3 days for it (put around 3-4 hours each day). It also doesn't help when your OMM professor rechecks your techniques in the allotted time period (sucking up your time) on the practical (the professor doesn't do this to everyone either).
Okay my public health class on the other hand is chill...
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235009
While your answer is factually accurate you aren't actually answering OP's question. In fact noone in this thread has actually answered the question. The OP wants to know what he can do to get into a top residency and the answer is you'll be sorely disappointed when you find out down the line that those spots aren't available to DOs. It's better if someone tells you that up front.
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MeatTornado is correct about this. Unless you are aiming for PM&R, Anesthesia, Pathology, or Peds (those dudes were probably the top DO students); you cannot match at a top residency program as a DO. Mid-tier is still somewhat reasonable for the mildly competitive fields, but you will still have to be at the top end of your class. Just do what you can and be reasonable about where you can match.
I don't know. I kind of think if a DO student has an application that rivals a MD student's application they might do better than we think. I'm not trying to give false hope or anything. I will be the first to admit DOs have less opportunities than MDs. However, I don't think the data we have access to shows the whole picture.
I know my usmle score was about 10 points higher than my program's average, but my application otherwise was below average. Now, near the end of my residency, my resume is similar to my peers.
I got interviews everywhere I applied for fellowship and my wife got interviews everywhere she applied except for one place. We only interviewed at "top" 10 programs. No one seemed to care about the DO thing unlike applying for residency. We are both in anesthesia, which I know isn't the most competitive thing, but, nevertheless, I think when DOs and MDs applications look similar there is less of a bias. Maybe it's wishful thinking.
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68PGunner
This is true. But, at the end of the day, I think people in general just want to match into their desired top 3 specialty at a decent place that's not in the Dakotas, Wyoming, etc... I think only a small percentage of docs really care about the prestige factor that's associated with academic medicine.
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With all the doom and gloom on SDN and the results of the recent match report, I've kind of accepted that DOs essentially just compete with IMGs for the USMD leftovers. I'll be pleasantly surprised if the end result is better than this.
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How about for a DO matching for IM then Cardiology. I don't care about prestige at all, what are my chances for a mid or low-tier cardiology fellowship?? Does such a thing exist? All I see is people saying a DO can't match into Johns Hopkins, MGH, etc and I COULD CARE LESS about going there. Just want to get in somewhere to receive training and get licensed in it.
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From a medical scribe perspective that works at a hospital with constant medical students auditioning, this is SPOT ON
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To get into a cards fellowship whether it's mid or top tier (not even sure what those definitions are besides doing cards fellowship at a very strong heart center) you usually need to go to a strong IM residency and there lies the rub. You look at any IM match for most DO match lists and you see the 98% got a community program many which are really unknown to the academic field.
Going to MGH or UCSD or Emory for IM isn't just about prestige it's the fact that if you want to do cards you probably have the absolute best in clinical and research in that field. You get to work with leaders and add substantial work to your cv which makes you a strong candidate for cards come app time.
Now with all that there are specific community programs that have a good affiliation with a university or in themselves are very strong. Places like Northshore, Cedars Sinai, Scripps Green, Einstein Health in Philly all seem to blue solid programs where matching into fellowship can happen.
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Ok so in other words, how difficult is it to match from an ACGME community program to a cards fellowship (any). Including areas where "no one wants to move to."
A
AnatomyGrey12
Just want to point out it's "couldn't care less"
If there is not an affiliated cards program it is much more difficult. You should be aiming for university IM if you want to pursue GI or Cards
I came in here to say this. The best way to stand out as a DO for competitive residencies is to 1. Reject your DO acceptance 2. Throw your AACOMAS app in the trash 3. Get into an MD school. If you have the intelligence and work ethic to get into an MD school you have a chance at those competitive spots. If not, throw your dreams in the trash now because you aren't suddenly going to be a rockstar once you matriculate.
Truth hurts son.
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Depends on the specialty. Truth be told, I think (pre-merger) if a student entered the DO route and kicked ass their chances for Derm are higher than going the MD route.
I personally know a student who went to UCLA Med, had 18 publications in Derm!!, and did not match for 2 consecutive years. I always think if she took her talents in a DO program w/ an affiliated Derm residency she would've been becoming a Dermatologist now.
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How sure are you? For 2016 there were 844 Cardio positions and 447 US MD applicants. Out of the remaining positions, I believe 42 or 48 DO's matches, 98 IMV's, and 250 non-u.s IMG's matched. How do you interpret this data?
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Also I counted and there are roughly 55 DO cardiology positions.
I'm also interested in cardiology as a future D.O. (once I get accepted).
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Not even being funny... but this right here is the truth OP.
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It's difficult. You go to an acgme program at some unknown community hospital where yes there are research projects going on but you have limited patient population, limited variety in terms of seeing rare cases to discuss via case report, additionally you have less resources for our to get that data crunched (many university programs will have in house biostatisticians to help calculate out your data).
MDs have an easier path to getting cards because they land IM residencies that have the resources (research), networking (in house fellowships that many community programs don't have), and mentorship (again, you'll have MD PhDs and MDs who are master clinician scientist in cardiology to work with). So when you just see how many DOs or IMGs matched into cards you're not getting the whole picture. You have to look at the total amount of DO applicants to cards and the subsequent match number of DOs which I do not believe the data is available for that right now. But I believe without a doubt that most of the DOs matching cards went to a very solidly communiverity or academic/university IM program.
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Yupp. Pretty much. The US IMGs usually just get the leftover spots after DO and MDs get theirs.
MD >>>>DO >>>>>>>IMG>>>>>>>>>>FMG is usually the order of rank if you want.
With this merger nonsense... who knows.
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Again, False. This info is biased and complete bs. I'm from California, and Touro-CA here has an mcat average of 31 filled with students from UCb and Stanford. Now compare such a student to one who got into a local MD state school such as university of New Mexico or West Virginia. If the CA applicants were residents of those states, they'd have a much higher chance of getting in than being from CA.
Also many students opt for doing a post bacc to MD rather than going DO. They're considered MD's but they're not rockstars in the sense listed above. You guys need to look at the bigger picture and not just the numbers.... there's more to admissions than that. Affirmative Action (which I completely believe in and should exist) and Research also play pivotal roles in allowing students with lesser stats to get accepted into MD schools.
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I really hope this is true, because dam there are a lot of non-US IMG's in IM residencies and good fellowships
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Yeah such is life. You choose to go DO at Touro-CA it doesn't matter if your alma mater is Stanford, CalTech, UC Berkley, UCLA and have a 250 on the USMLE. That MD student at SLU or Albany (no offense obv to anyone going here) who got in with a 27 MCAT and a 232 USMLE (with LOR's from division/dept academic heads from their medical school) is going to end up being considered at the academic university medical centers over you. That is how it is.
Are there exceptions sure. We had a KCU Derm at Mayo, Gen Surg at Mayo, ENT at Tulane SOM, IM at IC Irivine, IM at UCLA Olive but even then, you need remember those are exceptions and not the norm (the lady at UC Irvine was literally number one in the class) and the amount of work that one needs to put in is exponentially greater than a student at a low or mid tier MD school.
Make connections early. Do research. Bust your butt to kill your step and honor your rotations. Hope for the best once you get that down but don't expect anything.
A
AnatomyGrey12
This can be influenced by true FMGs who are applying from good residency programs. These applicants are stellar and should not be lumped in with IMGs.
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They aren't lumped. Non-US IMG's = True FMG's. There were 250 true FMG's, 100 U.S. IMG's, and like 44 D.O.s who matched cardiology.
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So dumb because I know at least a few people in my position who do PostBacc's at RosalindFranklin and get into their Med School after a year. So should I really consider this option if the impact is that different? I'm so confused because I understand that MD's get first pick over DO's, but when I see that there are 844 cardiology positions and 447 USMD applicants or 7,500 IM positions and 3,200 (approx) USMD applicants I think to myself "I don't care if I get left overs since there's so many!"
The big caveat I'm not sure about based on what I see is that do DO's ACTUALLY get first pick for remaining residencies after MD's? Or is this a myth. Again, I couldn't (thanks anatomygrey) care less if it's Harvard or MGH but I'm talking about those "leftover" positions.
(Sorry if I'm getting repetitive here)
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AnatomyGrey12
I should have been more specific earlier , those FMGs aren't taking leftovers. They should be looked at as the same as USMDs.
There really aren't "leftover" spots. The majority of those matching cards are coming from solid university IM programs, which a lot of DOs just don't match into. At the fellowship point where you are applying from (residency program) matters a lot more than where someone got their degree.
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I thought that too initially but it's not true. You can see overall fellowship match rates based on USMD, DO, IMG, and FMG and the percentages that get accepted into fellowship are about the same as residency match. USMD have like 93-94% fellowship match, DO has 79.5%, IMG has 70%, and FMG has 67%.
BUT that's for all fellowships combined... I can't pinpoint the fellowship match rates for cardiology specifically. This is a problem because DO's could have a higher fellowship match rate by matching more in less competitive specialties such as Hospice and Palliative Care
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That is only because it is California. I bet you most of the Touro folks have 3.6 average GPA and the 31 mcat averages is no joke.
Everybody and their moms wants to stay in Cali for some damn reason.
Cali and NY are the BIGGEST exporters of students when it comes to medicine. They are the two states with the most amount of applications per seat. My school has a few folks from Stanford, a lot of UCLA and UC-Davis students.
Not disagreeing with you at all but MD programs are definitely what OP SHOULD be trying to get into.
DO schools FOR THE MOST PART do accept lower caliber students. There is no way around it.
MD programs WANT research, a high MCAT and a high GPA. You can play the balancing act all you want... but MD admissions games are purely based on numbers to weed out people for sure.
DO programs, if you apply early enough, don't seem to have that problem atleast until September-December when all of the MD rejects start flooding in their apps.
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For sure agree with everything posted here.
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Think about why you are getting to those numbers. US MDs get first dibs at top residencies, then next DO, then next IMG, and then next FMGs. Where you go to residency also help in where you match in fellowship. So the ones that go to top residences will go to top fellowships, hence why the pecking order is the same. Its not the degree.
There are FMGs in MGH because these are the people who went to top medical schools, near the top of their class, and are foreign born. These are the three criteria they need to meet in order for the PDs to think they are getting elite applicants and not US MD rejects.
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When you say FMG's went to top medical schools you mean in the US or in their home country?
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Out of the country. These FMGs not only usually have strong experience as professors in their home country but absolutely destroy the USMLE as well. When you see a physician who went to University of Iran and then does their fellowship at MSKCC or Mt Sinai Hospital, they had to have an absolute beast of an application.
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Lol detectivealonzo is so bitter. Personally, I know of too many highly successful DO's to honestly think I can't do what I want as a DO. I will settle for a "good" residency if it gives me the training to become what I want and be good at it.
66% of DOs matched acgme cardiology in 2011, but we don't know what kind of program they're coming from. I'd imagine DOs coming from university programs have an easier time. I have 2 former classmates who came from a community residency and matched cardiology.
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/chartingoutcomessms2011.pdf
Sorry if this has been covered already.
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