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How to write my own LOR
- Thread starter stankem
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I'd never feel comfortable writing my own letter of recommendation. I'd rather the letter writer have a short letter that is concise and genuine if they're pressed for time. Otherwise, I'd like to know my letter writer well enough to know that they will put together a nice letter with some good comments. Just my simple opinion, though.
I mean that would be ideal but in fairness he's a busy man. And he's rewriting the thing after the draft. Either way I've got three long LORs (that I didn't write) from attendings who know me really well already. Having someone that's likely immediately recognizable to a PD, write a strong letter (or willing to sign his name to) as a fourth can't hurt.
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Someone asked me to do the same. I refused saying it was not recomended since it is suppose to be private. I offered to send him a few things to highlight of possible.
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...huh? Your waiver is to your otherwise god-given right to read your LORs. If a letter-writer wants to let you see it, they're more than welcome to do so.
I see no problem writing your own letter. Keep it short (less than one page with letterhead / signature), talk about being a team player, hard worker, and having a good knowledge base, throw in a personal detail or two, and use the phrase recommend without reservation at the end. It's not rocket science.
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Write the letter as if you were writing one for a classmate you've worked with that impressed it. If you do it in that way, it shouldn't be too bad. I suggest going online and searching for sample recommendation letters for residency and checking to see if you can apply the letter to yourself in one manner or another.
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Disagree with the other poster.
Writing your own letter is great and a good exercise. You've got a blank check, write in some zeros behind the 1 son.
Good letters are specific. It's not enough to simply say, "Soandso had a great foundation of knowledge," you need to follow it up with a specific example, "For example on rounds, he was able to answer intern and above level questions about hospital management of multiple disease processes".
Just google "writing recommendation letters" and you'll get a sense of what makes a "good" letter. Highlight a few areas with examples, and then give yourself the highest recommendation. A big name chair will not be offering to write a letter if he's not willing to give the highest recommendation.
Good luck.
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Too bad. When you get older you will realize that your supervisors will routinely ask you to write your own letters. The busier they are, the higher the probability.
-AT.
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True. While I was fortunate enough not to have to write my own residency or fellowship application LORs, every grant I've submitted in fellowship has had an LOR or 3 written by me and edited by the recommender. I actually just send draft letters when I email people to ask if they'll do it.
It becomes the norm and you get used to it.
May seem a little awkward but I'd say this a great opportunity. Write yourself an awesome letter.
Say something like I give the student my highest recommendation. It would be a pleasure to have him/her at my program. I wouldn't go over the top and say something like he's the best student I've ever worked with but baring something like that go nuts. Talk about being a hard worker, having an excellent knowledge base, being good with patients. I am sure Name will make a great whatever.
Say something like I give the student my highest recommendation. It would be a pleasure to have him/her at my program. I wouldn't go over the top and say something like he's the best student I've ever worked with but baring something like that go nuts. Talk about being a hard worker, having an excellent knowledge base, being good with patients. I am sure Name will make a great whatever.
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Ummmm... 
WTF @ some of the responses in this thread.
Isn't the whole point of this application process to have clinicians write letters on our behalf without us knowing what the letter looks like word-for-word? Aren't we supposed to waive our rights to read them? Isn't there a whole "honor" thing that's supposed to (I would hope) come into play here?
If not, then what's to stop any applicant from just typing up an amazing letter about himself/herself, fake some letterhead via photoshop, forge a doctor's signature on it, and mail it into their school's dean's office to be added to ERAS?
Bad plan, people.
WTF @ some of the responses in this thread.Isn't the whole point of this application process to have clinicians write letters on our behalf without us knowing what the letter looks like word-for-word? Aren't we supposed to waive our rights to read them? Isn't there a whole "honor" thing that's supposed to (I would hope) come into play here?
If not, then what's to stop any applicant from just typing up an amazing letter about himself/herself, fake some letterhead via photoshop, forge a doctor's signature on it, and mail it into their school's dean's office to be added to ERAS?
Bad plan, people.
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Ummmm...
Isn't the whole point of this application process to have clinicians write letters on our behalf without us knowing what the letter looks like word-for-word? Aren't we supposed to waive our rights to read them? Isn't there a whole "honor" thing that's supposed to (I would hope) come into play here?
If not, then what's to stop any applicant from just typing up an amazing letter about himself/herself, fake some letterhead via photoshop, forge a doctor's signature on it, and mail it into their school's dean's office to be added to ERAS?
Bad plan, people.
Nothing. People cheat all the time. Rarely do they get caught.
-AT.
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I personally hate it when physicians want students to write an LOR.
In regards to the last comment about cheating ... gotta love the integrity of the whole medical process. It really is all about who you know and who you ... blow.
In regards to the last comment about cheating ... gotta love the integrity of the whole medical process. It really is all about who you know and who you ... blow.
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You don't seriously mean this, do you? If I submit an LOR "allegedly" from the Chair/PD of the dept. where I'm a postdoc. saying wonderful things about me, and tomorrow if another PD calls/meets this Chair/PD and asks about me, isn't that a disaster waiting to happen? I would be black-listed from every program in the country!
Unless I never make it to the level where LORs are reviewed, how is it possible for one to not get caught? Could you kindly elucidate please?
Thanks,
JB
Ummmm...
Isn't the whole point of this application process to have clinicians write letters on our behalf without us knowing what the letter looks like word-for-word? Aren't we supposed to waive our rights to read them? Isn't there a whole "honor" thing that's supposed to (I would hope) come into play here?
If not, then what's to stop any applicant from just typing up an amazing letter about himself/herself, fake some letterhead via photoshop, forge a doctor's signature on it, and mail it into their school's dean's office to be added to ERAS?
Bad plan, people.
If your letter writer wants to show you the letter what's wrong with that? You don't have to waive your RIGHT to see the letter but it is generally expected with the idea that the feedback will be more honest.
The whole point of the process isn't for us to not know what is said the point is for programs to know what other doctors think about us.
There is a big difference between faking a letter and what this thread is talking about. The doctor is still going to look at the letter and potentially make changes before he signs it. Hopefully, if the letter has stuff he doesn't agree with he will change it before sending it off. If he does sign something he doesn't agree with it is his integrity that is questionable not the student's.
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Why would I want to give you advice on how to cheat? The point of my post was to simply describe that it does happen. You'll find plenty of research articles about it on PubMed.
-AT.
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Somewhere in the end of the letter make sure there is a line that says something like: "Joe Shmoe is an excellent candidate for residency in yaddayaddayadda specialty and is an example of the high-caliber medical school graduates that we actively recruit at our program."
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Ummmm...
Isn't the whole point of this application process to have clinicians write letters on our behalf without us knowing what the letter looks like word-for-word? Aren't we supposed to waive our rights to read them? Isn't there a whole "honor" thing that's supposed to (I would hope) come into play here?
If not, then what's to stop any applicant from just typing up an amazing letter about himself/herself, fake some letterhead via photoshop, forge a doctor's signature on it, and mail it into their school's dean's office to be added to ERAS?
Bad plan, people.
I still refused to write the letter and won't do it. I much rather earn it and know that I did not cheat.
There are no short cuts in life.... no free lunches. BUT one thing is for sure cheaters are plentiful and unfortunately some/too many get away with it.
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This is similar to people using PS off the net etc.. My attending told me the ridiculous things they see when evaluating both PS and LOR.
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From the bottom of my heart, I can't stand medical students. We are one of the most awkward and ridiculously annoying breeds.
What the heck is wrong with writing your own letter if the recommender requests it? In what way is this cheating? When you waive your right to see the letter, that means after the letter is written, you are not allowed to actively pursue getting a copy of your letter for your reading leisure. It does not imply that you are not allowed to see your letter if the writer lets you.
How is writing your own letter cheating? In what way is this breaking any rules? Does that mean when I ask for a "strong letter" my attending agrees, and has his secretary print out "Generic_LOR_2010.docx" and put my name on it that he is cheating as well?
I had a professor in undergrad tell me to write my own letter and that we'd review it together and make any changes, for my med school app. I had one of my friends write the letter for me, gave him points I wanted made, and my professor made a few changes with me present and signed off on it.
You guys are weird.
What the heck is wrong with writing your own letter if the recommender requests it? In what way is this cheating? When you waive your right to see the letter, that means after the letter is written, you are not allowed to actively pursue getting a copy of your letter for your reading leisure. It does not imply that you are not allowed to see your letter if the writer lets you.
How is writing your own letter cheating? In what way is this breaking any rules? Does that mean when I ask for a "strong letter" my attending agrees, and has his secretary print out "Generic_LOR_2010.docx" and put my name on it that he is cheating as well?
I had a professor in undergrad tell me to write my own letter and that we'd review it together and make any changes, for my med school app. I had one of my friends write the letter for me, gave him points I wanted made, and my professor made a few changes with me present and signed off on it.
You guys are weird.
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Uhm, no. You are flat-out wrong. The whole point of this process is to have an application suited to getting into the residency of your liking. The point of this process is not to have clinicians write letters on our behalf without us knowing what the letter looks like word-for-word. Not only is it not the point, I don't even think it's a minor aspect of the process. You're in fantasyland bubba.
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Got the same from an old chief resident, now attending, who is writing me one. Going to be a bit of a new experience, as I hate flowering myself up like a LOR does. And I understand the desire to earn a LOR, and it is correct to earn it.
Truth is, you are talking about busy people to write these letters. They are clinicians, scientists, and administrators. They may forget, or just not do it because of lack of time. Then, you are SOL to get anything out of them. They are showing you a level of trust to write something for them to peruse and sign.
Regardless of what you write, the recommender is *not* giving you their signature stamp for a carte blanche ego boost. He/She is asking you to send the document off to him/her to read and correct, have their administrative assistant format it properly, print it on letterhead, *then* sign it and submit it. You are involved to get the rough part of the letter (i.e., talking about you,) done.
And as for my right to see my LORs: I have always waived the right to see my LORs, either verbally to the person or by formal agreement. Usually, the recommender has shown me anyway. It is their right to share it with you, whether you waive your right to see it or not.
Truth is, you are talking about busy people to write these letters. They are clinicians, scientists, and administrators. They may forget, or just not do it because of lack of time. Then, you are SOL to get anything out of them. They are showing you a level of trust to write something for them to peruse and sign.
Regardless of what you write, the recommender is *not* giving you their signature stamp for a carte blanche ego boost. He/She is asking you to send the document off to him/her to read and correct, have their administrative assistant format it properly, print it on letterhead, *then* sign it and submit it. You are involved to get the rough part of the letter (i.e., talking about you,) done.
And as for my right to see my LORs: I have always waived the right to see my LORs, either verbally to the person or by formal agreement. Usually, the recommender has shown me anyway. It is their right to share it with you, whether you waive your right to see it or not.
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I really don't think the issue with LORs is whether you get to see it or not. And I don't really think PDs care if you've seen it or not or whether you know what was written. I think the issue is did the letter come from the mind and experiences of the person recommending you. Is the letter "genuine" is the question.
I don't know. I wouldn't actually want to write my own letter to get into residency. It might go something like this, "and I should say that Joe was the best student that I've ever had. I didn't teach Joe anything, in fact he taught ME everything I know."
Seriously though, the LOR would seem more authentic if your letter writer is actually the author in question and not the applicant. It just seems kind of lazy to me for an attending to say, "OK write your own letter and I'll sign it." I mean if you don't want to do LORs then say so or just get out of academia.
I have written many LORs for my students and I take it seriously. I don't give a glowing recommendation if it isn't warranted. I also don't give a "general" LOR if the student was outstanding. I do, at some point, send them a copy of the LOR so they can read it themselves or keep in their files. And the things that I put in the LOR aren't anything that they do not already know, as I have at some point sat down with them to review their strengths/weaknesses and give them direction as well. Maybe its just me but I do not see doing an LOR for a student a chore, and I expect my students to keep in contact with me as well and update me on their progress.
I don't know. I wouldn't actually want to write my own letter to get into residency. It might go something like this, "and I should say that Joe was the best student that I've ever had. I didn't teach Joe anything, in fact he taught ME everything I know."
Seriously though, the LOR would seem more authentic if your letter writer is actually the author in question and not the applicant. It just seems kind of lazy to me for an attending to say, "OK write your own letter and I'll sign it." I mean if you don't want to do LORs then say so or just get out of academia. I have written many LORs for my students and I take it seriously. I don't give a glowing recommendation if it isn't warranted. I also don't give a "general" LOR if the student was outstanding. I do, at some point, send them a copy of the LOR so they can read it themselves or keep in their files. And the things that I put in the LOR aren't anything that they do not already know, as I have at some point sat down with them to review their strengths/weaknesses and give them direction as well. Maybe its just me but I do not see doing an LOR for a student a chore, and I expect my students to keep in contact with me as well and update me on their progress.
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Like your opinion even matters.
And for repetition's sake:
Or you can be a real man and actually EARN a great application with glowing LORs rather than looking for shortcuts and weaseling your way into writing your own LORs.
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I had 2 attendings email me copies of the letters they submitted to the Dean's Office, after they were sent in. I never asked to see the final letters and I waived my rights to see them. Since both attendings had the final say on the content of the letters, I thought it was perfectly fine to review them. In the case of the OP, it doesn't seem "dishonorable" in any way, as long as the attending reviews the letter for accuracy.
100% agree
I must admit you were put in a tough position, I wouldn't know where to begin with writing my own letter!
But if this is ACTUALLY what you told this individual, you should NOT have done this! You committed 2 big nono's: (1) did not meet your LoR writer's request and (2) insinuated he was being a sleazeball.
You should have said, "I want to thank you for offering to help bolster my application with a LoR. Unfortunately, reflecting on what I have been told by advisers and on the application process as a whole, I think that I need to choose a smaller subset of LoRs for my residency application. This, on top of ERAS limitations, forces me to forgo letters from people that I would have loved to include. As opposed to wasting your valuable time, I figured that I would decline asking for a letter that I most likely won't be able to submit."
Letter writers expect you to jump through hoops, you are asking them to take hours from their family at night or on the weekend to do you a favor. And on top of that you insinuated that he was being slimey! NO NO NO NO NO NO!
You should never be forced to do something you are not comfortable with. At the same time, let's call a spade a spade: we are at the peon stage of our careers. There are more diplomatic ways to handle delicate situations that respect our code of ethics while saving face in front of the all powerful attendings that can play an inordinately large role in our career, for better and for worse!
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Just in case you misunderstood, I wasn't asking you advice on how to cheat. I still can't believe that people get away with it without being found out, especially in the USA.
I mention USA specifically as in India and UK where I trained, documents aren't scrutinized as intensely as here. Just for a little typo in my medical degree certificate, which was never an issue in India and UK, my parents had to get an affidavit from the court saying I am the same person after which my medical school dean then issued a letter endorsing it, before I could even get my USMLE exam application submitted and accepted by ECFMG.
That's why I am very surprised that people do such stuff and not get caught. I guess I should start looking for evidence on PubMed to educate myself and not be so naïve,
.
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Dude, you're a serious douche aren't you? My opinion matters just as much as yours does, and neither of our opinions matter at all, for the record. My application is just fine, and no one has worked harder than I have over the course of the last 9 years. Equally as hard, sure, but I've never been outworked. One of my attendings emailed me the letter he submitted on my behalf. I signed my waiver, and never once in my life have I ever asked or attempted to see what was written about me in any LOR that I have asked for. I know some people who ask secretaries if the letter is good or not, but I have never even done that. He simply emailed it to me and said "here you go, I hope it helps, keep me posted". The letter that my attending wrote was fire. It also gave me insight into the fact that these guys are always watching, always paying attention, and have long memories. He wrote a 2 page letter and concluded with: "He will be at the top of our program's rank list".
You have a seriously distorted view about this process. The OP never asked to write his own letter, in fact, he feels awkward doing it. But this is an exceptional opportunity for him. You are genuinely a delusional idiot if you think otherwise. Though that is my opinion. I would guess the majority of people disagree with your weird point of view though. Just my opinion again. Which doesn't matter.
I don't think you understand what's going on here. I made no attempt to write my LOR and honestly was a little worried about the opportunity. From what I gather now it's an endorsement from the attending who would not give someone this exercise if they did not already think they worked hard and were deserving of a fantastic LOR. Which I did.
No where did I say the attending was just going to put his signature on the bottom of the page I print out from word and send it in. This is much more work than I put into my other LORs (which were also great) not really a shortcut. I'm not sure how exactly you're processing this information to come up with those conclusions. Thanks to everyone for the advice.
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Wow...
Juiceman, you shot down my opinions with personal attacks, and you expect me not to say something back? Yeah sure, that sounds fair.
And Stankem, I have no idea why the hell you're even mad at me in the first place. If you don't want people's varying opinions about a non-black-or-white issue, then don't start a bunch of threads about it.
Geez.
Juiceman, you shot down my opinions with personal attacks, and you expect me not to say something back? Yeah sure, that sounds fair.
And Stankem, I have no idea why the hell you're even mad at me in the first place. If you don't want people's varying opinions about a non-black-or-white issue, then don't start a bunch of threads about it.
Geez.
Wow...
Juiceman, you shot down my opinions with personal attacks, and you expect me not to say something back? Yeah sure, that sounds fair.
And Stankem, I have no idea why the hell you're even mad at me in the first place. If you don't want people's varying opinions about a non-black-or-white issue, then don't start a bunch of threads about it.
Geez.
Right you have opinions on people somehow seeking to write their own LOR and people falsifying letters of recommendation. I wasn't mad I was wondering how do they apply here, enlighten plz.
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Post #11. Please read it within the context I presented. It says: if students are being asked to write their own LOR (with or without the attending's editing/adding/subtracting other pieces of information before the final product), and it's allowed/acceptable/not illegal, I raised the point of: What's to stop anyone from just falsifying a LOR outright, since clearly there doesn't seem to be strict rules about this?
I wasn't accusing you of falsifying a letter. I was only raising a theoretical point. Big difference.
I don't really understand the point of that post. There are huge differences between those two things. Writing a letter yourself and sending it in as though it came from someone else is clearly a lie. Writing a draft for the person to sign if he agrees with the content is helping him out so he doesn't have to do the work.
If a program director found out you wrote the draft of your letter I doubt they would care that much. If they found out you falsified the letter you would probably be kicked out of the program and reported.
Obviously you might be able to get away with faking the letter but everyone knows that it is dishonest. If someone calls the author of the letter about you and you faked it they are going to know.
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Wow...
If you don't want people's varying opinions about a non-black-or-white issue, then don't start a bunch of threads about it.
Right on, Def. There are a lot of us with you on your points made, but it is not worth getting into a pi$$ing match with some obviously very riled up people. And not all medical students did well enough on clerkships and with attendings to be offered LOR written for them or to have attendings happily accept to write the letters. I agree that it would be an awkward situation to be put in to write one's own LOR--I understand that it happens--and I am thankful I didn't get put in that position.
Anyway--bottom line--there seem to be a lot of idiotic hysterical posts from people and it is indeed hard to remember--:troll:s
Uh because there's a big nonsensical leap between an attending agreeing to it, which they will of course add their own touch to, and to you making something up entirely, falsifying someone else's approval without their knowledge and sending it to a program. I can't even fathom an instance where this would be done by a sane student. I don't see how the existence of students drafting a LOR would logically lead to students actually writing an LOR and forging signatures, seals and letterhead. I think there are strict rules against that...
Uh...you think that an attending who didn't think much of a students performance wouldn't write them a letter but would sign their name to a glowing letter of recommendation?
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I appreciate your advise but I assure you that it was done properly... and not the way I posted it on here.
I was not born yesterday and in the past have written reference letter for undergraduate students for their med school or work applications.
I'm with Def on this one. I think people who write their own letter then check off that they waive their right to see their letter should be kicked out of the medical system There is no place for this kind of behavior. Just because it has been done does not mean it is okay. It is unethical.
If you write your letter and your lor writer talks with you about and alters it then the letter was co-authored. Hence, your name and your attending's name should be on it.
It is funny how aprog director has not commented in this thread. What are your thoughts aprogd?
If you write your letter and your lor writer talks with you about and alters it then the letter was co-authored. Hence, your name and your attending's name should be on it.
It is funny how aprog director has not commented in this thread. What are your thoughts aprogd?
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Don't you think this is a bit harsh? I've witnessed medical students do much worse to their peers and even patients, things that should warrant disciplinary action but do not. It seems that most applicants who have to write their own letters do not ask to, nor do they want to.
I haven't been put in the situation where I had to write my own letter, but I can imagine it would be very difficult to turn down a request like that from a department chair, someone whose letter is a must in certain specialties. It is fairly easy on an anonymous board to judge others, but I think this is a pretty difficult situation to be stuck in.
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I was trying to stay out of it. Thanks for dragging me in....
I personally think it's ridiculous for a letter writer to tell someone to write their own letter. That's simply being lazy. I mean, really, if you know the person, how long does it take to write a letter?
Once someone asks you to do this, I don't think you have to turn it down. You can write the letter, give the rough draft to your letter writer, waive your right to see it. They then take that draft and can change it any way they want. Perhaps they take every "wonderful" and replace it with "terrible". Point is, you've waived your right to see the final version, so nothing "unethical" there.
Having a letter writer ask you to write your own letter puts the student in a very poor ethical spot, which is really unfair. One of the responsibilities of faculty is to write letters for students, and passing that responsibility on to the students themselves is a dereliction of that duty IMHO.
All of this shows why I honestly don't put all that much weight on what lettters say. If I know the letter writer, or if I have any concerns about the student, I call the letter writer. Then, I often get a different story.
I personally think it's ridiculous for a letter writer to tell someone to write their own letter. That's simply being lazy. I mean, really, if you know the person, how long does it take to write a letter?
Once someone asks you to do this, I don't think you have to turn it down. You can write the letter, give the rough draft to your letter writer, waive your right to see it. They then take that draft and can change it any way they want. Perhaps they take every "wonderful" and replace it with "terrible". Point is, you've waived your right to see the final version, so nothing "unethical" there.
Having a letter writer ask you to write your own letter puts the student in a very poor ethical spot, which is really unfair. One of the responsibilities of faculty is to write letters for students, and passing that responsibility on to the students themselves is a dereliction of that duty IMHO.
All of this shows why I honestly don't put all that much weight on what lettters say. If I know the letter writer, or if I have any concerns about the student, I call the letter writer. Then, I often get a different story.
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totally agree with this. Though I hate writing my own rec letters, I've been asked to do it several times, for med school apps and now for a fellowship app. One of my recommenders is going to be away from her home institution 5 times within this month alone, so you can imagine how busy she is, and these people can't just come up with 3 hours to write a letter from scratch. It feels a little juvenile to think that we shouldn't look at our letter because we'd cry over some constructive criticism made in it, throw it out or change it, and I think doctors realize that. We're just trying to be helpful to people requesting we do this due to their busy schedule.
Anyway, since I'm trying too figure out how to write a letter about myself as well, keep the advice coming.
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