How will you escape the pit (the ER)?

[Backpack234]

A few years into practice and already starting to wonder if EM is sustainable. I’ve considered plenty of other options. The ones I keep coming back to are wound care, obesity medicine, and maybe something like the VA or teaching if a med school will hire me. In the current world though, I’m not sure what the best exit strategy is.

For those of you who plan to leave the pit, how are you getting out?

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[RustedFox]

OTR truck driver.

 

[southerndoc]

I still have about 10 more years in me. After that, I may do EMS medical direction full-time. I've already turned down an offer for $285k/yr. Most are in the $225k/yr range though.

 

[DeadCactus]

I still have about 10 more years in me. After that, I may do EMS medical direction full-time. I've already turned down an offer for $285k/yr. Most are in the $225k/yr range though.

The little glimpses into your career make me really curious. You seem to be doing extremely well from multiple perspectives.

 

[bravotwozero]

10 more years and (hopefully) FIRE.

 

[Tenk]

 

[CliveStaples]

Academics for me, after starting my career at the CMG rat race. More-so resident education and department management than research for me.

I looked around my region and saw a revolving door of doctors working at just about every hospital, the same docs changing jobs every 4-5 years, trading one turd sandwich for another. All except for the ones working at the academic medical center. They actually had some docs working into their 50s and had been there for 20+ years, without a revolving door of docs coming and going all the time. That's what sealed it for me.

 

[deleted813736]

Worked about 3 years at a very high paying ER facility. Saved (most) of the income besides a splurge car purchase. Use the money to generate 100K passive income a year by selling covered calls right now. May work 4-5 more years here and call it good , buy some dividend stocks/options trading is the easiest thing from home.

 

[hundreddaysoff]

Worked about 3 years at a very high paying ER facility. Saved (most) of the income besides a splurge car purchase. Use the money to generate 100K passive income a year by selling covered calls right now. May work 4-5 more years here and call it good , buy some dividend stocks/options trading is the easiest thing from home.

Sounds like you're in a good place.

What will happen to your 100k covered call income if the Fed causes a recession this year? Do you make your plans as if WCI is right and everything will just bounce back over the 5--10-year term? Or do you have a Plan B in that case?

Just curious. I'm toying with buying some puts/tail hedging. Logging into VG every day with 2-factor authentication gets old though. Thinking I'm not really cut out for trading.

To OP: I have a weird telehealth side gig that will reasonably generate high 5 figure income within a few years. But it's not necessarily sustainable. (Structurally I mean, not personally... I could do telehealth until I'm 100 personally! It's so easy compared to the ER.)

I'm also quitting USUCS for a better W-2 ER gig that all in all should net me at least $100k/y more. The new hospital is decidedly not a revolving door. Would have been a hard job for me to get right out of residency though.

And finally, my wife can make mid-high 5 figures and wants to work into her 70s for some strange reason. So, I have a sugarmama if I can keep her...

All in all, I hope to quit the ER in 5--6 years and play with my kids ~full-time. I know, I know, I said that on here 2 years ago.. But This TIme Is Different.

 

[Backpack234]

Academics for me, after starting my career at the CMG rat race. More-so resident education and department management than research for me.

I looked around my region and saw a revolving door of doctors working at just about every hospital, the same docs changing jobs every 4-5 years, trading one turd sandwich for another. All except for the ones working at the academic medical center. They actually had some docs working into their 50s and had been there for 20+ years, without a revolving door of docs coming and going all the time. That's what sealed it for me.

How do you get into the academics gig? The further away from academics I get, the less I have any academic credentials. Not fellowship trained. No mission trips or major volunteer gigs in the last 5 years. I’m just a working doc and a parent now.

How does a doc like that get into academics?

 

[Backpack234]

Worked about 3 years at a very high paying ER facility. Saved (most) of the income besides a splurge car purchase. Use the money to generate 100K passive income a year by selling covered calls right now. May work 4-5 more years here and call it good , buy some dividend stocks/options trading is the easiest thing from home.

How much do you need to generate 100k with covered calls? I’m too used to the 4% but your returns seems much higher.

 

[dchristismi]

I made the complete jump to hospice about 3 years ago and "retired" from EM.
Much, much, much happier. Having control is priceless.
In "retiring" I was able to gracefully bow out, even though I work just as much now (technically 0.8 FTE, but hey, benefits.)

I dipped my toes in about 4 years ago and slowly eased my way in, while cutting my hours in the pit back. When covid hit and my colleages were looking for shifts, it was a no-brainer... and I haven't looked back. I don't miss it. I occasionally miss the flexibility of taking off for 3 weeks for a big trip, but honestly, the stress ain't worth it.

 

[Kryptocoin]

#onlyfans

 

[Tiger26]

When paid off, I'll have make about 60% of my current income in short term vacation rentals. I'll quit when I have enough places for that to be 100%

I'm also hoping to hit 6 figures with my photography within the next year.

 

[kumatie]

I started a business selling used shower curtain rods. Huge market to tap into.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

For those of you who plan to leave the pit, how are you getting out?

As the child did. Without the rope.

 

[DeadCactus]

I started a business selling used shower curtain rods. Huge market to tap into.

Sucker's game. The used shower curtains pack up smaller; much less overhead on shipping. That's where the money is.

 

[CliveStaples]

How do you get into the academics gig? The further away from academics I get, the less I have any academic credentials. Not fellowship trained. No mission trips or major volunteer gigs in the last 5 years. I’m just a working doc and a parent now.

How does a doc like that get into academics?

I kept my connections at my residency training site and they actually reached out to me about a job since they had an opening and really needed somebody to work clinical shifts (I.e. their biggest need was a doctor who would work, and work well; not necessarily somebody who did a fellowship in underwater basket weaving). I think you'd be surprised the number of academic sites that may not necessarily want somebody who is coming in looking to leverage their grant funded research for full time pay to work 6 shifts a month. They still need to get the shifts filled somehow. Now that isn't to say that I didn't talk about things I did want to develop within my career to "give back" to the department (in terms of resident/student education and operations management in my case) but I do think that there is still a role for a non-fellowship trained doctor at many academic sites.

I think you just need to apply. Your story doesn't have to be phony. You do have important experience to provide to training residents. Learning from somebody who has worked the type of job that a majority of them are going to go work in is valuable education. It's not good for them to train from only "ivory tower" types. It's not crazy to say that you think the thing that will revitalize your career and interest in this field is to be able to spend some time around young learners instead of only moving the meat day in and out.

 

[thegenius]

A few years into practice and already starting to wonder if EM is sustainable. I’ve considered plenty of other options. The ones I keep coming back to are wound care, obesity medicine, and maybe something like the VA or teaching if a med school will hire me. In the current world though, I’m not sure what the best exit strategy is.

For those of you who plan to leave the pit, how are you getting out?

Yikes.

Wound care? Obesity Medicine?

Yikes

I'm not busting your balls...but those alternatives seem so frustrating

 

[Backpack234]

When paid off, I'll have make about 60% of my current income in short term vacation rentals. I'll quit when I have enough places for that to be 100%

I'm also hoping to hit 6 figures with my photography within the next year.

Hold up. Making money with photography!? How?

 

[Backpack234]

Yikes.

Wound care? Obesity Medicine?

Yikes

I'm not busting your balls...but those alternatives seem so frustrating

I appreciate the input.

My dad is a podiatrist and works wound care in his retirement years just to keep busy. Makes over 100k working two half days per weeks and seems to love it. I also met an ER doc who left the pit and did wound care. Ended up quitting the pit cuz he made over 400k with a 9-5.

Obesity medicine is a new interest. Friend became obesity certified through IM. With new meds out he says he helps a lot of people who are very grateful. Also regular hours. That seems appealing. Doing med recs all day does not.

 

[emergentmd]

If you want to get out of the PIT and stay in patient care there are alot of options. The above as mentioned. Also, Urgent care, workers comp evals, etc. I got out of the PIT and work/own FSERs which IMO is the holy grail on EM.

If you want to get out of patient care, other than hobbies your are good at, just get into real estate. You have the $$$ and put in some time, its well worth it.

I bought into 6 Apt syndications with an 8% yearly distribution in the past 3 yrs, and All 6 recently sold out around a 2x ROI which will all be 1031 into new syndications. We are expecting a 7% distribution given less favorable market conditions but still a 14% distribution if you look at it from an initial cash infusion standpoint. That is 50K/yr in distribution once we close on the new syndication. If this happens again in 3-5 yrs, then this will double to 100K/yr distribution and 1.5M in equity.

I have 2 Vacation STRs Netting 130K/yr absent a mortgage.

I have 5 LTRs that grossed 130K/yr and will net 80K/yr absent a mortgage.

I have 1 duplex I am testing out the short term lease market (30+dy) and surprisingly profitable. There is a good market for traveling workers or people waiting for their homes to be done/renovated. Just 4 months in and both sides are rented out at 2x market for past 5 months. If things goes well, may net 30K/yr absent a mortgage.

I could probably pay off all of my real estate debt in 3-5 yrs and net around 250K/yr plus the 50K apt syndication. Given the tight rental market, I bet in 5 yrs, rent will be up 50% from today.

I just turned down a mobile dog grooming business that could have netted 10-20k/yr on a 30K investment. There are always business ideas out there if you want to put in the time/work to learn the business.

 

[Tiger26]

Hold up. Making money with photography!? How?

I started a portrait business last year. Focusing on personal branding and senior portraits but I've done some family photos and weddings. I can make more than my hourly rate in the ED.

 

[emergentmd]

I started a portrait business last year. Focusing on personal branding and senior portraits but I've done some family photos and weddings. I can make more than my hourly rate in the ED.

I am not going to saying that this is not true but I have friends who charge $1K (I think this would be on the high end for a 1 hr shoot) for a family portrait package which includes 1 hr shooting. He spends minimum 2 hrs setting up, taking pictures, putting his gear away. He then spends 3+ hrs to edit, printing, and completing the transaction. So even at a min of 4 hrs, he is making about $250/hr not counting the hours he spends doing corresponding with clients, answering questions, etc.

 

[Backpack234]

That’s my understanding of photography too.

Since this is my thread I’ll join in. I make about $3.00 per day with a blog that I can’t add to until my employer approves me since it has to do with medicine. Hopefully that can jump to a bit higher and I’ll be just like wci and PoF

 

[CajunMedic]

If I can luck out and find somewhere that wants a full-time EMS director, I'll do that. My med school has a "Director of Simulation" position, that has traditionally been an EM Doc that handles OSCE's, 1st and 2nd year "Hands-on" classes (Doctoring Skills/Clinical Science). Barring those two? Learning how to weld and doing that. Doubt my body could handle being a towboat deckhand again. Find a shoreline railroad that needs a switchman. Or, put all my tools to good use and open a shop specializing in luxury and exotic cars backed by a monetized YouTube channel. "Doc's Mountain Exotics" has a nice ring to it.

 

[TheComebacKid]

How do you get into the academics gig? The further away from academics I get, the less I have any academic credentials. Not fellowship trained. No mission trips or major volunteer gigs in the last 5 years. I’m just a working doc and a parent now.

How does a doc like that get into academics?

Simple. You come in as full time clinical faculty. They will expect you to work a full allotment of clinical shifts, depending on the institution 14-16 shifts per month. This will differ from "core faculty".

Most academicians don't want to work clinical shifts. They want to buy down their time doing other endeavors including research, education, global health, QA, hospital admin etc. It can be a bit of a challenge to fill clinical shifts (at my academic shop there are tons of open shifts every month, people have meetings/conferences etc that come up last minute). I think being a full-time clinical person brings value to an academic department, provided you understand that you are there to move the meat so the other docs can have more time to do other stuff.

If you come in expecting to work 4 shifts a month like your fellowship trained colleagues with multiple funded grants, you'll be disappointed.

Academics is a great gig. Unlike with working at CMG, even if you start off purely clinical, you can get involved with various projects that ultimately, if you play your cards right, allow you for some shift buy down (even if its small) so you can diversify your career. There is more upward mobility it seems to me than just cranking through widgets in the community.

Also, IMO, residents are in dire need of community docs to transition back to academia for teaching purposes. The vast majority of them will work in the community, and the ways of the ivory tower dissipate quickly once they leave. Having someone who cut their teeth in the community and couldn't call a consultant for every issue is very valuable to an academic program, and worth selling to the education leadership when interviewing.

 

[emergentmd]

I do not think I could do anything ER medicine related once I hang things up. I would keep busy by doing something I enjoy that makes money like pay Poker for a living, do covered call/invest, and Manage my properties.

 

[TheComebacKid]

If I can luck out and find somewhere that wants a full-time EMS director, I'll do that.

I would say to find a full-time EMS medical director gig with a paid salary/benefits is extremely difficult to find. I'm not sure what your background is, but these jobs increasingly look for fellowship training and ABEM board certification. There are some smaller agencies that do have non-fellowship trained graduates, but many of these positions are on a volunteer basis or with a very small stipend.

EMS agencies very much underpay docs, and given more people going into fellowship I project the same issue in EMS as there is in EM, namely oversupply of EMS physicians and not enough jobs to go around. Unless you have in, this is not a great exit strategy. In addition, current medical directors, especially in bigger cities are very protective of their role and turnover I have found is very low.

Take it from someone who did EMS fellowship and can't find good work.

 

[thegenius]

Worked about 3 years at a very high paying ER facility. Saved (most) of the income besides a splurge car purchase. Use the money to generate 100K passive income a year by selling covered calls right now. May work 4-5 more years here and call it good , buy some dividend stocks/options trading is the easiest thing from home.

What underlying(s) are you writing calls on? Monthlies or weeklies? Have you ever been assigned?

Curious as 100K “passive” income is tremendous…as writing calls safely does not give big returns. I estimate you have at least 800K portfolio, if not more than 1M.

BTW I write ~10 delta short strangles on SPX. Seems to work OK especially in the current mid-to-high IV environment.

 

[emergentmd]

I agree, generating 100K passive income selling covered calls "safely" would require a large amount of money.

 

[xaelia]

Since all good things eventually come to an end, I've been thinking about what I might do when my wife drags me back to the U.S. from my blissful existence in NZ.

I figure I obvs gotta actually keep working another 15-odd years until the kids are done with college, but, yeah – not in the pit.

Probably academics? Some sort of informatics consulting gig? Work telehealth night consultant coverage for Australia with my FACEM?

My risk-averse wife actually *works* in residential real estate consulting, and I could never convince her to do any sort of real estate investing even though she'd be fantastic at setting it up. Same with wacky stonks outside of our 401k funds.

I kick around the idea of having an MBA as well – seems like it might be of value.

 

[Tiger26]

I am not going to saying that this is not true but I have friends who charge $1K (I think this would be on the high end for a 1 hr shoot) for a family portrait package which includes 1 hr shooting. He spends minimum 2 hrs setting up, taking pictures, putting his gear away. He then spends 3+ hrs to edit, printing, and completing the transaction. So even at a min of 4 hrs, he is making about $250/hr not counting the hours he spends doing corresponding with clients, answering questions, etc.

I am not going to saying that this is not true but I have friends who charge $1K (I think this would be on the high end for a 1 hr shoot) for a family portrait package which includes 1 hr shooting. He spends minimum 2 hrs setting up, taking pictures, putting his gear away. He then spends 3+ hrs to edit, printing, and completing the transaction. So even at a min of 4 hrs, he is making about $250/hr not counting the hours he spends doing corresponding with clients, answering questions, et

It obviously depends on the length of the shoot and the editing required to determine an hourly rate. For example, I just did a $1,700 personal branding shoot that took roughly 4 hours of my time. I plan on raising my prices to about $2,500 soon for the same level of service.

That said, a lot of time has gone into learning to produce a high end service, although that’s not much different from the tens of thousands of hours that go uncompensated while becoming a physician.

It wasn’t until very recently that I realized it’s possible to make a lot of money in ways unimaginable. For instance, I know a guy who’s been snatching up contracts for building inspection for municipalities that can be 75k a year. He’s building a 700k house right now.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

PGY2 and burned to an ever loving crisp after this year. The staffing shortages and patient behaviors have really made this job crazy stressful.

Especially when I rotate with our community docs, and see their lives I can’t imagine doing that for another 20+ years just grinding it out in the pit.

Just finished interviewing for CCM fellowship, with luck I’m shooting for a setup of academic EM teaching CCM to EM residents, with some ICU time thrown in on the side.

 

[emergentmd]

It obviously depends on the length of the shoot and the editing required to determine an hourly rate. For example, I just did a $1,700 personal branding shoot that took roughly 4 hours of my time. I plan on raising my prices to about $2,500 soon for the same level of service.

That said, a lot of time has gone into learning to produce a high end service, although that’s not much different from the tens of thousands of hours that go uncompensated while becoming a physician.

It wasn’t until very recently that I realized it’s possible to make a lot of money in ways unimaginable. For instance, I know a guy who’s been snatching up contracts for building inspection for municipalities that can be 75k a year. He’s building a 700k house right now.

I agree. There are so many ways to make $$$ and being ER physicians, we have a leg up on most because we have the time and money to fund businesses. I can think of 5 business that could make pretty easy $$$ tomorrow but the time I would need to put in would be less than what I could make just doing what I do now.

It just takes time, $$$$, and being a reliable/good communicator.

I always tell my partners/family that they need to start a business. The only way to retire is to get a functional business then get it on cruise control where you sit back and collect profit, take advantage of all the tax deductions not available to W2. This is the only way to retire with good income and low time commitment.

 

[miacomet]

A better question for today's grads might be, how are you going to find a job, and if your job doesn't work out, what it is your back up plan? This guy obviously didn't see being unemployable at 52 coming:

Did I Just Retire at Age 52? | White Coat Investor

At the age of 52, I quit my job, and (I think) I'm now in early retirement. Here's what I've done to prepare myself moving forward.

www.whitecoatinvestor.com

 

[HemorrhagicShock]

I agree. There are so many ways to make $$$ and being ER physicians, we have a leg up on most because we have the time and money to fund businesses. I can think of 5 business that could make pretty easy $$$ tomorrow but the time I would need to put in would be less than what I could make just doing what I do now.

It just takes time, $$$$, and being a reliable/good communicator.

I always tell my partners/family that they need to start a business. The only way to retire is to get a functional business then get it on cruise control where you sit back and collect profit, take advantage of all the tax deductions not available to W2. This is the only way to retire with good income and low time commitment.

Help a brother out!

What 5 businesses would those be?

I'm idea poor, but do have a little time and reasonable start-up capital. My problem is that I am a good rule-follower doc, and I am risk-averse. I believe that I need to change my mentality on these and be okay with a little risk!

 

[PianoMedic]

Help a brother out!

What 5 businesses would those be?

I'm idea poor, but do have a little time and reasonable start-up capital. My problem is that I am a good rule-follower doc, and I am risk-averse. I believe that I need to change my mentality on these and be okay with a little risk!

Same boat here, also interested in the list. I haven’t found a “side hustle” yet that I feel any shred of confidence I would be able to do, and my natural risk aversion is definitely holding me back. Real estate seems like it could be an option but I don’t have the same conviction in it that I do in the stock market.

 

[emergentmd]

Any business that you want to start, I would highly recommend that you enjoy it. I enjoy real estate and think this is one of the easier entry. Once you pay off the mortgage, you are essentially getting paid a yearly salary for doing very little.

I do not have any W 2 income anymore and so it opens up a vast array of deductions. All of my trips/vacations are expensed b/c I discuss either my real estate or FSER during the trip. All big items bought either is expensed to my rental properties vs my FSER vs my home office. Need a computer, leaf blower, massage chair, etc goes to my home office.

Anyhow I currently have a FSER business with little clinical work and rental property business.

If this was not my cup of Tea, I have been offered a few business to open/run but the money vs time was not worth it.

1. Lawn/tree service. Met a few guys that didn't have the capital but was hard working. Equipment was not terribly expensive and start up for a truck/equipment was around 100K. The numbers made sense, the demand is super high but key to network and find hard working guys.
2. Dog grooming business. Offered to buy a fully renovated grooming trailer for 20K with an already set clientele with calendar booked out over a month. Just crunching the numbers, they could do a full groom on avg in an hr so 8-10 a day and charged between 100-150/dog. So 1K per groomer and there were two stations so in theory 2k/dy. 5 dys/wk puts income at max income 500k/yr. Generously half goes to the groomers, so 250K/yr. Expenses, maintenance, site rent to park trailer was pretty minimal. I think at minimum, I could have made 50k/yr and up to 200k/yr.
3. Nail salon. Again, you need connections but startup was super cheap and women loves to pay 40-50 for a set of nails.
4. Pool cleaning service?
5. Short term rental vacation property management. I have a few lake homes and pay about 25K in management fees a year and 4 months during low season there is very little bookings. It would not be very difficult to pick up 8 places and pull in 100K/yr.

Bottom line is you can't be risk or time adverse. I have had a few endeavors fail but cant win them all.

 

[thegenius]

I do not have any W 2 income anymore and so it opens up a vast array of deductions. All of my trips/vacations are expensed b/c I discuss either my real estate or FSER during the trip. All big items bought either is expensed to my rental properties vs my FSER vs my home office. Need a computer, leaf blower, massage chair, etc goes to my home office.

This is not a personal criticism.

I've seen this a lot. people take personal family vacations and "talk" about business on the trip and get to expense part or all of it. It's BS. The trip was not designed to be a business trip and 90% of the time is vacay. I have friends who do the same thing. Every meal they expense.

I think they get away with it because the IRS doesn't have the manpower to crackdown on all of that. That's all.

The implication is that you never actually take a "vacation" because you are always working 8 hrs/day while on vacation.

Again..I do not want to sound critical of you personally but rather the very large cohort of people who abuse this on their tax return.

 

[emergentmd]

I get where you are coming from and I don't take this as criticism but if the IRS allows these loopholes, then I would be dumb not to take it. There are many "loopholes" that are IRS legally gray that the rich takes which some may look at as abuse. My CPA approved of these business trips, so I am happy to expense it. In reality, unless they completely close these loopholes, how is the IRS going to prove if a trip was purely business, purely personal, or somewhere in between.

I do not see this any different when my tech friends go to a "conference" in Vegas for a few hours, then spend the rest of the week at the pool or gambling. Or my CME trips to Vegas where I attend a few lectures but the rest of the time eating, gambling, relaxing. There is a reason why these business conferences are always at vacation spots, and rarely does one spends half the time conducting business.

 

[hundreddaysoff]

Help a brother out!

What 5 businesses would those be?

I'm idea poor, but do have a little time and reasonable start-up capital. My problem is that I am a good rule-follower doc, and I am risk-averse. I believe that I need to change my mentality on these and be okay with a little risk!

The general idea I'm hearing from EMD is:

Get out of your medicine bubble. Get off the Internet, or use it to arrange meeting people. Real local people, who do real local things. See if you like them and trust them. Get into the numbers of their businesses and ideas.

At the end of the day, real capitalism is risk, and a little bit of faith and insanity. Some must fail for others to succeed. This is all laid out in, eg, Spitznagel's Dao of Capital (unfortunately he's not the best writer).

You don't need an original idea. In fact and almost by definition, original ideas are probably more likely to fail than unoriginal ideas. Now as ever, for us little guys, it's mostly about hard work and execution.

This hollow, abstract world of passive investing that we've been living in for a generation now is not real capitalism. It is not sustainable, and there is no reason we should have faith in it to help us leave the pit going forward. Stocks are paper, and the world is changing.

I would be doing all the above to increase my income if I actually had any money in taxable, or could tolerate debt more. Instead, I socked most of my income away for the past 7 years into (1) free and clear house and (2) Roth/401(k) as VTI+VXUS to participate in this hollow, government-approved world of passive investing.

I'm not complaining, mind you. I'm in a good place right now. And passive stock investing has not been wrong for a decade or more, for the average worker. But many of us on here would like to be above average.

 

[Tiger26]

Help a brother out!

What 5 businesses would those be?

I'm idea poor, but do have a little time and reasonable start-up capital. My problem is that I am a good rule-follower doc, and I am risk-averse. I believe that I need to change my mentality on these and be okay with a little risk!

I think the most important thing is to consider monetizing something that you already enjoy or are interested in. At the most very basic level, you can deduct some of the expenses for a few years. If monetizing it takes away the joy, just revert back to doing it as a hobby or keep it a really small side business. The reality of emergency medicine is that we have a lot of free time to do other things.

As for ideas, besides doing something you enjoy, consider things that other people can’t or won’t do. Of of our docs is retiring because he’s a little older but has a home construction business where he’s making more than EM. Another retired (older) doc does woodworking, but you can sell a custom table for 5-10K if done well.

Other things to consider would be real estate. At one point, we renovated 3 homes in 4 years. Obviously, it was a lot of work, but it was far cheaper to do it ourselves and we gained a lot of equity. You could flip homes or do short/long term rentals.

Other possibilities would be doing an Etsy shop if you have particular hobby.

I think the biggest thing is that people will spend money (sometimes a lot of it) if they find value in it. Think about all the patients on Medicaid we see who have $200+ sneakers on. There is no shortage of money in the world and people want to spend it on things they desire. I just sent out a price list for a maternity photo session today that included a $3400 album. We also have a short term rental that goes for $10k a week, another for $4,500/week, and another for about $2,500/week. The trade off is that we’re constantly working on them and doing maintenance projects rather than enjoying them. I’m driving 5 hours next week with a U-Haul and furniture that we’re replacing in one of them.

 

[Apollyon]

Need a computer, leaf blower, massage chair, etc goes to my home office.

Honest, I don't know how you make this one work, but, it made me laugh!

 

[thegenius]

I get where you are coming from and I don't take this as criticism but if the IRS allows these loopholes, then I would be dumb not to take it. There are many "loopholes" that are IRS legally gray that the rich takes which some may look at as abuse. My CPA approved of these business trips, so I am happy to expense it. In reality, unless they completely close these loopholes, how is the IRS going to prove if a trip was purely business, purely personal, or somewhere in between.

I do not see this any different when my tech friends go to a "conference" in Vegas for a few hours, then spend the rest of the week at the pool or gambling. Or my CME trips to Vegas where I attend a few lectures but the rest of the time eating, gambling, relaxing. There is a reason why these business conferences are always at vacation spots, and rarely does one spends half the time conducting business.

But it's not actually a loophole. It's lying on the tax return. The IRS doesn't say "if you go on vacation for 1 week and spend 4 hours of that time working, you get to expense 1 week". You should be expensing 4 hours.

It's the same thing with meals too. Everybody has to eat. Not all eating is always done 100% of the time while doing business.

One of the reasons we used to expense meals at 100%...but it's been reduced to 50%.

 

[thegenius]

Honest, I don't know how you make this one work, but, it made me laugh!

He blows his expense reports into the trash can!!!

 

[deleted813736]

What underlying(s) are you writing calls on? Monthlies or weeklies? Have you ever been assigned?

Curious as 100K “passive” income is tremendous…as writing calls safely does not give big returns. I estimate you have at least 800K portfolio, if not more than 1M.

BTW I write ~10 delta short strangles on SPX. Seems to work OK especially in the current mid-to-high IV environment.

For example: I write calls for growth stocks that have higher call premiums. For example, currently I own about 300k of NIO stock. This week on Tuesday I sold 150 covered calls at 20 strike (and i picked this price based on how many calls/puts there are currently) that expire today (stock market is closed tomorrow). I sold those calls for 8000 dollars earlier this week and they will now expire worthless in an hour. Rinse and repeat. sometimes I have to extend my calls if it runs up so i am never assigned, so some weeks i don't make anything. i never sell the shares.

BTW not a SAFE investment option although I am in my low 30s and can handle heavy volatility. This is not financial advise =)

 

[thegenius]

For example: I write calls for growth stocks that have higher call premiums. For example, currently I own about 300k of NIO stock. This week on Tuesday I sold 150 covered calls at 20 strike (and i picked this price based on how many calls/puts there are currently) that expire today (stock market is closed tomorrow). I sold those calls for 8000 dollars earlier this week and they will now expire worthless in an hour. Rinse and repeat. sometimes I have to extend my calls if it runs up so i am never assigned, so some weeks i don't make anything. i never sell the shares.

BTW not a SAFE investment option although I am in my low 30s and can handle heavy volatility. This is not financial advise =)

Yea you are subject to a ton of gamma risk on a volatile stock. But it doesn't matter. Anyway...looks like it's working for ya. Like for instance you wrote those on Tue,...and on Wed afternoon Nio was at 20.50 so that call had lost value (although perhaps still near your BE). You sold them for about 0.53 each?

Covered calls in this environment are not a bad thing...they do mute gains but there isn't much gaining here.

What was your original CB on those NIO shares?

 

[emergentmd]

So you own 300K NIO and yes Covered calls are profitable but I hope you got NIO recently b/c they are down over 50% from last Fall's high. I do covered calls on my Tsla stocks and still looking for a safe strike point. I essentially sell weekly covered calls for 1% premium so in theory can make 50% in a year. This is likely too aggressive and I should start to do 0.25-0.5% so would put me in the range of 12-25% range.

 

[emergentmd]

Honest, I don't know how you make this one work, but, it made me laugh!

Part of the game is how you classify your assets. As I run essentially 2 businesses, I need a home office. We live 20 min from our kids school, so pickup, school activities, club sports become very difficult.

So I decided to purchase a SFH right across the street from school so the kids can walk home after school events and I can drive them to their activities.

As this home is designated only as an Office (I do not rent it), I get to deduct everything from my business expense plus I gain the crazy Austin market equity. So food, furniture, equipment (even leaf blower), utilities, etc are all deductible.

My CPA is an above the board guy and he has given me the green light. Some of my partners/friend's CPAs have pushed more aggressive deductions which he wants no part of and steers me away from them as they would be hard to defend.

Bottom line is if I plan a trip with some of my friends/partners, and we talk about business then to me its a business trip. In no way can the IRS read my intent.