How will you escape the pit (the ER)?

[deleted813736]

Yea you are subject to a ton of gamma risk on a volatile stock. But it doesn't matter. Anyway...looks like it's working for ya. Like for instance you wrote those on Tue,...and on Wed afternoon Nio was at 20.50 so that call had lost value (although perhaps still near your BE). You sold them for about 0.53 each?

Covered calls in this environment are not a bad thing...they do mute gains but there isn't much gaining here.

What was your original CB on those NIO shares?

really coulda sold for 10k but you can't time it perfectly. What i do is look at how many contracts are available on open interest. Everyone knows the big money manipulates stocks so I saw there was over 10,000 open 20 dollar calls ending this week. I think i sold my calls when the price was 20 earlier this week knowing it wouldn't hold because big companies want these calls to expire worthless. The next big cycle is on May 6 which has over 23000 open calls that expire at 22 dollars. If i sell covered calls today for that date (3 weeks out) thats around .80 cents a piece for 12,000 passive income. Its all a game but once you have capital you can join the side of the 'big money' folk and make money way easier.

And i bought NIO at 22 dollars. I am down on the stock overall, but with the passive income I dont care. I think it will head to 50 in the next 2-3 years so i am good holding and collecting premiums weekly/monthly.

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[deleted813736]

So you own 300K NIO and yes Covered calls are profitable but I hope you got NIO recently b/c they are down over 50% from last Fall's high. I do covered calls on my Tsla stocks and still looking for a safe strike point. I essentially sell weekly covered calls for 1% premium so in theory can make 50% in a year. This is likely too aggressive and I should start to do 0.25-0.5% so would put me in the range of 12-25% range.

tesla calls are actually lucrative. I think currently nio is more at the bottom trading range so I am riding with them. But i would def consider TSLA for the same strategy and 25% a year target with a possibility of 50% given how tesla seems to rocket up

 

[emergentmd]

I think the biggest thing is that people will spend money (sometimes a lot of it) if they find value in it. Think about all the patients on Medicaid we see who have $200+ sneakers on. There is no shortage of money in the world and people want to spend it on things they desire. I just sent out a price list for a maternity photo session today that included a $3400 album. We also have a short term rental that goes for $10k a week, another for $4,500/week, and another for about $2,500/week. The trade off is that we’re constantly working on them and doing maintenance projects rather than enjoying them. I’m driving 5 hours next week with a U-Haul and furniture that we’re replacing in one of them.

We have some similar ideas.

Some of my short term rentals on the Lake rents for 7k/wk and essentially 95% from June to September. Another rents for about 5k/wk.

I found another Niche. Bought a duplex that was renting for $1200/mo each side. I could have done nothing and rented for $1300/mo. Instead, did a complete inside renovation/fully furnished for 50K. Now I do short term leases (1+Month) and have both sides essentially rented for 4 straight months at 3k/mo for each side, so 6k/mo. There is a market for people needing places to stay for 1-4 months without many options who do not want to deal with utilities, furnishings.

There is alittle more work compared to LTRs but the amount of wear/tear is 90% less. This is my test case and if it does well for a year (I just need to rent it out 50% of the time to break even vs LTRs), I am really considering doing this to my other duplexes.

There are so many ways to make money in real estate, you just need to take some risks/think outside the box.

 

[emergentmd]

tesla calls are actually lucrative. I think currently nio is more at the bottom trading range so I am riding with them. But i would def consider TSLA for the same strategy and 25% a year target with a possibility of 50% given how tesla seems to rocket up

I have done 10 Tsla weekly covered calls on my 300K. Lost alittle when it breaks through strike but 30K in premiums nothing to sneeze about. I think I will shoot for 25% premium going forward.

 

[thegenius]

So you own 300K NIO and yes Covered calls are profitable but I hope you got NIO recently b/c they are down over 50% from last Fall's high. I do covered calls on my Tsla stocks and still looking for a safe strike point. I essentially sell weekly covered calls for 1% premium so in theory can make 50% in a year. This is likely too aggressive and I should start to do 0.25-0.5% so would put me in the range of 12-25% range.

yea there is no way you can write weekly calls 50 times a year and not get assigned. You are probably writing 10-20 delta calls, and as such there is a 10-20% chance of being assigned.

For what it's worth, wheeling has never been shown to beat buy and hold. I'm not suggesting you wheel all the time....but I think it's probably better to selectively write calls after a runup and maybe using technical analysis or something. Mechanically writing weekly calls is silly.

 

[Fox800]

I feel very fortunate to have stumbled into a fairly lucrative telemedicine gig that requires no thought process and minimal work. I am hoping to transition into that something closer to half time (currently doing like 6 hours a week and I could live off of that if I didn’t have to pay large student loan payments each month). I have been aggressively expanding my portfolio of medical licenses in hopes of seeing more patients through telemed.

I have a CMG job in an area that everyone supposedly wants to live in. It’s turning into more and more of a sweatshop every day and my partners are jumping ship, we have about 14 doctors and five of them have put in notice that they are leaving their full-time roles within the past 90 days and either resigning, going half time, or PRN. We are continually being forced to do more and more with less and our pay is not anywhere close to being commensurate with the complexity and volume that we deal with on a daily basis. So, I am exploring other opportunities including full-time telemedicine, the VA, other state or federal government jobs, etc.

I have been considering working overseas in Australia or New Zealand or perhaps Canada. I’ve also been considering going back to fellowship but probably won’t.

Everyone says real estate investing is the golden goose but I don’t even have a house for myself yet and trying to house hunt for myself in this ridiculously inflated housing market has been, quite frankly, depressing and defeating.

I tried my hand at index options last year (/ES, /MES, SPX) and was making ridiculously good money while the market was in a big upswing, to the tune of thousands of dollars per month but when the market started to go sideways or down that quickly dried up. I haven’t been brave enough to jump back in again.

In reality I would just love to work half time in the only ED that has been palatable to me (which is not in the lower 48 states of the US). I would love to do that on a half time basis where I work two weeks worth of shifts every eight weeks. In the meantime I could travel around the world, come back home and see family, or work more part-time shifts at one of the freestanding chains, basically do whatever I want but still have benefits like health insurance and a small 401(k) match.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Yesterday on shift I had a patients family member repeatedly come up to my desk and tell me “what kind of hospital are you running here?” And “I have no confidence in you people.” He complained to the nursing supervisor because his demented husband “only saw a resident and not a real doctor.” The guy (a former CRNA) would walk over to the entrance of the doc area and just stand there watching us, and making snide comments about “really looks like they’re working hard there” and “glad we pay them so much money to take their sweet time!”

It was all I could do not to get up and scream at the guy - I’ve worked 16 shifts in a row, haven’t seen my wife in 2 weeks despite living in the same house, and this morning I pronounced a 52 year old guy with no medical history who died at home in front of his devastated family.

And all this for a job market where I’ll be unemployed/underemployed for the rest of my career? I love the actual practice of EM but F that noise, I’m out.

 

[emergentmd]

Another option is if you are not stuck with kids/family/location, try cruise medicine. When I did that 20 yrs ago, it was super easy. My days were 1 hr clinic in am and 1 hr pm. Rarely called for any emergencies. Got to go off shift half the time and if you find a long cruise nurse, they will just stay on ship the whole time.

I think they were paying 75k/2mo. I have a longtime partner that started this. Seems like a great gig unless they changed the work requirements. Do this for 4 months for 150K and pay the rent.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Yesterday on shift I had a patients family member repeatedly come up to my desk and tell me “what kind of hospital are you running here?” And “I have no confidence in you people.” He complained to the nursing supervisor because his demented husband “only saw a resident and not a real doctor.” The guy (a former CRNA) would walk over to the entrance of the doc area and just stand there watching us, and making snide comments about “really looks like they’re working hard there” and “glad we pay them so much money to take their sweet time!”

It was all I could do not to get up and scream at the guy - I’ve worked 16 shifts in a row, haven’t seen my wife in 2 weeks despite living in the same house, and this morning I pronounced a 52 year old guy with no medical history who died at home in front of his devastated family.

And all this for a job market where I’ll be unemployed/underemployed for the rest of my career? I love the actual practice of EM but F that noise, I’m out.

We still thankfully don't allow visitors in the ED. That said, I'd have that person escorted out for being disruptive to patient care.

 

[emergentmd]

Yesterday on shift I had a patients family member repeatedly come up to my desk and tell me “what kind of hospital are you running here?” And “I have no confidence in you people.” He complained to the nursing supervisor because his demented husband “only saw a resident and not a real doctor.” The guy (a former CRNA) would walk over to the entrance of the doc area and just stand there watching us, and making snide comments about “really looks like they’re working hard there” and “glad we pay them so much money to take their sweet time!”

It was all I could do not to get up and scream at the guy - I’ve worked 16 shifts in a row, haven’t seen my wife in 2 weeks despite living in the same house, and this morning I pronounced a 52 year old guy with no medical history who died at home in front of his devastated family.

And all this for a job market where I’ll be unemployed/underemployed for the rest of my career? I love the actual practice of EM but F that noise, I’m out.

Why do you put up with this? We all get the occasional unreasonable pt. These pts gets the option of staying quietly in the room or be escorted out by security.

I did the hospital pit work (when it was better) for 15 years. Work was great until about the last 2 when the CMG/hospital metrics/Obama order sets all started to come out. It started to suck and I could not imagine how bad it is now.

I will tell all docs who are burnt out, do something to create another stream of income. Knowing you can leave anytime or reducing shifts makes improves your mindset completely.

 

[miacomet]

We still thankfully don't allow visitors in the ED. That said, I'd have that person escorted out for being disruptive to patient care.

I am so jealous. We are back to unlimited visitors.

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

Another option is if you are not stuck with kids/family/location, try cruise medicine. When I did that 20 yrs ago, it was super easy. My days were 1 hr clinic in am and 1 hr pm. Rarely called for any emergencies. Got to go off shift half the time and if you find a long cruise nurse, they will just stay on ship the whole time.

I think they were paying 75k/2mo. I have a longtime partner that started this. Seems like a great gig unless they changed the work requirements. Do this for 4 months for 150K and pay the rent.

Somewhat related to this, I know someone who occasionally works as a medical evacuation physician (I forget the exact title). Essentially, he gets paid to be on call at some beautiful tropical island, and if some person gets sick and wants to go to the US to seek care, he monitors them during the flight. The overwhelming majority of the time, nothing of note happened.

I forget the pay, but it was very very high, with the added bonus of being able to hang out at said tropical location.

 

[Fox800]

We still thankfully don't allow visitors in the ED. That said, I'd have that person escorted out for being disruptive to patient care.

Totally. That person would be gone so fast their head would spin.

 

[Fox800]

Another option is if you are not stuck with kids/family/location, try cruise medicine. When I did that 20 yrs ago, it was super easy. My days were 1 hr clinic in am and 1 hr pm. Rarely called for any emergencies. Got to go off shift half the time and if you find a long cruise nurse, they will just stay on ship the whole time.

I think they were paying 75k/2mo. I have a longtime partner that started this. Seems like a great gig unless they changed the work requirements. Do this for 4 months for 150K and pay the rent.

I’m on a cruise ship right now…been thinking about it. what line was this?

 

[southerndoc]

Yesterday on shift I had a patients family member repeatedly come up to my desk and tell me “what kind of hospital are you running here?” And “I have no confidence in you people.” He complained to the nursing supervisor because his demented husband “only saw a resident and not a real doctor.” The guy (a former CRNA) would walk over to the entrance of the doc area and just stand there watching us, and making snide comments about “really looks like they’re working hard there” and “glad we pay them so much money to take their sweet time!”

It was all I could do not to get up and scream at the guy - I’ve worked 16 shifts in a row, haven’t seen my wife in 2 weeks despite living in the same house, and this morning I pronounced a 52 year old guy with no medical history who died at home in front of his devastated family.

And all this for a job market where I’ll be unemployed/underemployed for the rest of my career? I love the actual practice of EM but F that noise, I’m out.

One of the benefits of my role... when they stand at the physician area and don't go back to their room after being politely asked, I simply call security and they disappear. Sometimes they go back to their rooms, sometimes they get escorted out of the ER. Curse at a physician or nurse in the ER, and the health system has a no tolerance policy for violence.

Regarding people leaving EM, it's a national trend we're seeing across the nation. Physicians are simply burned out from Covid and the nursing shortage causing problems. Physicians are realizing with the flood of residents coming out, their stress levels, and hopefully financial security, they really don't need to practice anymore.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

One of the benefits of my role... when they stand at the physician area and don't go back to their room after being politely asked, I simply call security and they disappear. Sometimes they go back to their rooms, sometimes they get escorted out of the ER. Curse at a physician or nurse in the ER, and the health system has a no tolerance policy for violence.

Regarding people leaving EM, it's a national trend we're seeing across the nation. Physicians are simply burned out from Covid and the nursing shortage causing problems. Physicians are realizing with the flood of residents coming out, their stress levels, and hopefully financial security, they really don't need to practice anymore.

Yeah I’m considering just going to do part time in 5 years from now

 

[Kryptocoin]

Despite my username, I've never actually "invested" in crypto. After I lost a few thousands (3k or so) day trading, I realized my days of high-risk investments were over.

I run a small telemedicine side gig (started during the pandemic), and I charge a pretty penny, but it has become time-consuming. For the amount of time spent running it, I could have picked up an extra shift making 5x as much. I'm thinking of shutting it down and moving on to something else.

Passive investments are the way to go for busy physicians. Real estate is an obvious choice but can be fraught with its own headaches and scams.

Right now, I'm sitting on a huge pile of cash while waiting for investment opportunities as my cash value gets slowly eroded by inflation.

 

[turkeyjerky]

Another option is if you are not stuck with kids/family/location, try cruise medicine. When I did that 20 yrs ago, it was super easy. My days were 1 hr clinic in am and 1 hr pm. Rarely called for any emergencies. Got to go off shift half the time and if you find a long cruise nurse, they will just stay on ship the whole time.

I think they were paying 75k/2mo. I have a longtime partner that started this. Seems like a great gig unless they changed the work requirements. Do this for 4 months for 150K and pay the rent.

Pretty sure times have changed. Pre-covid, pay was **** and was only attractive to retirees looking for a free vacay or foreign docs. Post-covid, pay is in line with what you're quoting, but you're quarantined to your quarters when not working.

 

[emergentmd]

Pretty sure times have changed. Pre-covid, pay was **** and was only attractive to retirees looking for a free vacay or foreign docs. Post-covid, pay is in line with what you're quoting, but you're quarantined to your quarters when not working.

Yeah, I didn't look into this much but that seems miserable.

 

[Frazier]

Yesterday on shift I had a patients family member repeatedly come up to my desk and tell me “what kind of hospital are you running here?” And “I have no confidence in you people.” He complained to the nursing supervisor because his demented husband “only saw a resident and not a real doctor.” The guy (a former CRNA) would walk over to the entrance of the doc area and just stand there watching us, and making snide comments about “really looks like they’re working hard there” and “glad we pay them so much money to take their sweet time!”

It was all I could do not to get up and scream at the guy - I’ve worked 16 shifts in a row, haven’t seen my wife in 2 weeks despite living in the same house, and this morning I pronounced a 52 year old guy with no medical history who died at home in front of his devastated family.

And all this for a job market where I’ll be unemployed/underemployed for the rest of my career? I love the actual practice of EM but F that noise, I’m out.

I remember seeing you post back when you were a medical student. Such a shame to see the toll EM takes. Hope you find the answer soon!

 

[RustedFox]

I remember seeing you post back when you were a medical student. Such a shame to see the toll EM takes. Hope you find the answer soon!

I remember him too.

Let this be a warning to all the naive med students out there that think that they're "different" and that "it won't be like that for them".

We are all telling you. Warning you. Waving huge red flags at you.

In the words of the prophet Birdstrike:

"This job is bad for you."

 

[emergentmd]

No fantasies. This job is a job that pays well. Find an ER gig you can do for awhile or use that $$$ to do something where you can slow down/get out if it becomes unbearable.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

I remember seeing you post back when you were a medical student. Such a shame to see the toll EM takes. Hope you find the answer soon!

I remember him too.

Let this be a warning to all the naive med students out there that think that they're "different" and that "it won't be like that for them".

We are all telling you. Warning you. Waving huge red flags at you.

In the words of the prophet Birdstrike:

"This job is bad for you."

I remember seeing you post back when you were a medical student. Such a shame to see the toll EM takes. Hope you find the answer soon!

Yea man - I still love the practice of EM, it’s fun, stimulating, and I’m young enough that I can still do the nights. The issue is the being trapped in it. You can fix a lot of the issues if you’re able to walk and are at an institution that has your back…but those are getting fewer and further between.

So I’m gonna have a developed skill independent from EM, and then I can practice it as much or as little I want.

 

[Backpack234]

Part of the game is how you classify your assets. As I run essentially 2 businesses, I need a home office. We live 20 min from our kids school, so pickup, school activities, club sports become very difficult.

So I decided to purchase a SFH right across the street from school so the kids can walk home after school events and I can drive them to their activities.

As this home is designated only as an Office (I do not rent it), I get to deduct everything from my business expense plus I gain the crazy Austin market equity. So food, furniture, equipment (even leaf blower), utilities, etc are all deductible.

My CPA is an above the board guy and he has given me the green light. Some of my partners/friend's CPAs have pushed more aggressive deductions which he wants no part of and steers me away from them as they would be hard to defend.

Bottom line is if I plan a trip with some of my friends/partners, and we talk about business then to me its a business trip. In no way can the IRS read my intent.

Quoting the wrong post here, but I saw you mention you run a FSED. What's the startup process for one of these like? Seems like a huge up front capital cost.

 

[RustedFox]

Yea man - I still love the practice of EM, it’s fun, stimulating, and I’m young enough that I can still do the nights. The issue is the being trapped in it. You can fix a lot of the issues if you’re able to walk and are at an institution that has your back…but those are getting fewer and further between.

So I’m gonna have a developed skill independent from EM, and then I can practice it as much or as little I want.

Dis is de way.

 

[miacomet]

How much money do you all feel you need to escape?

 

[thegenius]

5M or more

 

[miacomet]

5M or more

5 mm including primary residence, or not? Inflation adjusted?
That's a high bar that most docs don't get to.

 

[hundreddaysoff]

How much money do you all feel you need to escape?

$1.5--2M plus free and clear house.

Palliated by

(1) the fact that wife will continue to work no matter what I do,

(2) we're pretty frugal, and especially

(3) by my own nature, I suspect my s/p FIRE interests will somehow coincide with making a little "active" income anyway, through a little work with my telehealth gig or some other option I haven't thought of yet.

I'm not the type to just sit around on the beach all day. It's only that I desire the option to just do that if I ever change my mind.

 

[emergentmd]

How much money do you all feel you need to escape?

For me is when I do not have to touch my retirement money. I am doing FSER and so easy that I could do this forever. But if I ever really want to get out, then its 300K net passive income bc we still have young kids. Once I pay off my rental mortgages, I should be right at 250K.

Fire to me means not to drop from my current lifestyle.

 

[emergentmd]

Quoting the wrong post here, but I saw you mention you run a FSED. What's the startup process for one of these like? Seems like a huge up front capital cost.

If you are building from scratch and Have the land, 3-5M. If you find/take over an existing FSER, prob 1-2M depending on equipment.

 

[thegenius]

5 mm including primary residence, or not? Inflation adjusted?
That's a high bar that most docs don't get to.

Yea hence I doubt I’ll be retiring anytime before 65.

I meant 5M in liquid assets. If I had that I would live off of dividends and make like 200K/year. I live in the Bay Area and don’t really plan on moving which is a financial conundrum.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

5 mm including primary residence, or not? Inflation adjusted?
That's a high bar that most docs don't get to.

For me 5 plus paid off house.

 

[thegenius]

For me 5 plus paid off house.

Yea I don't want to retire and skimp. I want to retire and basically not have to think about money unless it costs 10K or more.

 

[miacomet]

I have to say, as I get further along in my career, the risk of losing my nest egg to some sort of crazy administrative issue where I need a lawyer (admin so toxic) makes me more protective of what I have saved, and the hourly just seems worth less, especially as I'm employed and pay plenty in taxes.

My original plan was 5 mm. Doubt if I will get there. Increasingly OK with that.

 

[emergentmd]

All Young docs should come out of residency around 28 years old and do this. You are making about 300k/yr, and after taxes prob netting 225K.

Put 25K in your retirement. Take 100K and enjoy. Take 100K and pay down your loans.

After 3 years, your loans should be gone. Take 100K/yr and invest. Buy property. Throw it in the S&P, Dividend funds, or something safe.

In 10 years and age 45, you have put 1.25M into the market/investments. Assuming 8% returns, that should be close to 2M.

Now you can do the same for another 10 years at age 55 and will have about 6M. Now do what the heck you want.

OR

At age 45, you stop investing and now can splurge on 225k/yr or work 1/2 time and live off 100k/yr. Either is not bad. In 10 years and age 55, that 2M is now 4M. In another 10 years at age 65, you now have 9M.

Point is start early and time is more important in the long run than how much you put in. Don't outspend your income or get 2 more wives then wonder why you are still working 15 shifts a month hating your job at age 45 with little in retirement.

I had a partner who was maybe 10 years older who out earned me when I became an attending at 28. I saved, invested, bought properties. I must say I did spend alot but in most years I saved about 100-150K into some investment. He on the other hand had an expensive wife and when I left the Pit 15 years into being an attending, he literally was still working 20 dys/mo at age 55 with no end in site until all his kids were done with college.

 

[thegenius]

Oh if it were that easy. You find a hot girl. She f's you all the time and wants something in return. There goes 30K/year.
You dump that after a year.
Then you find another girl who is hot and demure and you want to settle down with her.
There goes 50-75k/year.

Then you have kid(s).

'nuff said!

 

[emergentmd]

There in lies the choices. If you chose a hot girl that will outspend your income, then you just have to work more.

Never said it was easy but if you want control over your finances by age 50, you have to make sacrifices. If you need to live on 300K/yr, then work an extra 3 shifts a month.

 

[thegenius]

But what are you thinking about when the hot girl is knockin' boots with you and sucking your money? You ain't thinking about retirement!

"Honey...I think you're great in bed...but I want my principle to give me 4.2% yearly returns in 7 years. You cost too much. This is a gots to go situation."

 

[hundreddaysoff]

But what are you thinking about when the hot girl is knockin' boots with you and sucking your money? You ain't thinking about retirement!

"Honey...I think you're great in bed...but I want my principle to give me 4.2% yearly returns in 7 years. You cost too much. This is a gots to go situation."

Gosh, I could write a book about all this stuff.

There's a reason I didn't marry and have kids until I was in my very late 30s.

Too much stupid, I saw before then, on here and IRL. Stupid men, stupid women. It burned... oh, how it burned.

Do it once, do it right, even if it makes you that slightly creepy dude still hitting the bars in PGY-3 or beyond.

 

[Kryptocoin]

Some of the numbers here are not realistic. Here are some sobering stats:

64% of physicians have a net worth of <$2M.
Only 10% have a net worth of 5M and above (probably a combination of high-paying specialty, physician marriages, inheritance, or outside investments ).

These numbers will likely get worse since the new grads are coming into the market with higher debt, lower pay, and higher cost of living expenses.

 

[Mount Asclepius]

Let’s say you make the gold standard of $150/patient and see 2 patients/hour working a total of 14-8 hour shifts per month. That equates to a rounded $400K/year. Some make more and some make less. Extrapolating that over a 20 year career results in total career earnings of around 8M. Take out an effective tax rate of ~20% and you’re at around 6M. Subtract out a generous 100K/year over 20 years of living expenses and you are at a 4M net worth. With investments in low fee index funds over that 20 years you are easily over 5M.

These calculations make several assumptions that will vary from person to person, but it is overall generalizable. It’s easy to hit 5M. It’s harder to live within your means staying disciplined and patient, but that’s the path to financial success.

 

[emergentmd]

Let’s say you finished residency. And you saved 100k on day 1 and did nothing else. When you are 60, with an 8% annual return, you will have 1M.

So that “hot” chick that you spent 100k on is 1M off your retirement.

Save 100k x 5 yrs right out of residency and you will not need to save another penny at 35 yrs old to have 5M around 60. It’s not that difficult to live off 100k x 5 yrs after residency.

Docs are one of the most inept financially educated groups.

If u make 300k/20 years the only person to blame if u are not close to fire is yourself.

 

[Kryptocoin]

Let’s say you make the gold standard of $150/patient and see 2 patients/hour working a total of 14-8 hour shifts per month. That equates to a rounded $400K/year. Some make more and some make less. Extrapolating that over a 20 year career results in total career earnings of around 8M. Take out an effective tax rate of ~20% and you’re at around 6M. Subtract out a generous 100K/year over 20 years of living expenses and you are at a 4M net worth. With investments in low fee index funds over that 20 years you are easily over 5M.

These calculations make several assumptions that will vary from person to person, but it is overall generalizable. It’s easy to hit 5M. It’s harder to live within your means staying disciplined and patient, but that’s the path to financial success.

Most physicians can FIRE in 10-15yrs. The problem is not math, it's mainly behavioral (lots of books on behavioral finance). But it may soon become a math problem for new grads.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Some of the numbers here are not realistic. Here are some sobering stats:

64% of physicians have a net worth of <$2M.
Only 10% have a net worth of 5M and above (probably a combination of high-paying specialty, physician marriages, inheritance, or outside investments ).

These numbers will likely get worse since the new grads are coming into the market with higher debt, lower pay, and higher cost of living expenses.

Physicians typically don't have any conversations about money. Whitecoat investor is a realtive small group in the physician community. Also physician are very bad about money

 

[miacomet]

Some of the numbers here are not realistic. Here are some sobering stats:

64% of physicians have a net worth of <$2M.
Only 10% have a net worth of 5M and above (probably a combination of high-paying specialty, physician marriages, inheritance, or outside investments ).

These numbers will likely get worse since the new grads are coming into the market with higher debt, lower pay, and higher cost of living expenses.

Yeah, I'd be curious what the NW of the 5 mm-to-retire posters is, and also whether folks want 5 mm this inflation adjusted or not.

Also, this is a crazy low NW for physicians. Every EM doc out for 10 years should and could have a paid off house and 2 mm.

 

[thegenius]

Most physicians can FIRE in 10-15yrs. The problem is not math, it's mainly behavioral (lots of books on behavioral finance). But it may soon become a math problem for new grads.

I think most people who make 300-450K / year can retire early. But lots of things have to happen for that to occur. And they usually don't. The principle one is to live like you make 50K a year (which the majority of people do not) once you make 300K/year.

Moreover there is the concept of doing something with your time. You can retire early but seriously what the F are you going to do when you retire at age 43? You have 40-50 more years of your life. You are single. You live in a home you paid off. You have a kitty of 4M and you live off of dividends and make 150K/year. What are you going to do every day of your life? Play golf? Masturbate? Trade options and watch CNBC? Take photography lessons? Garden? Bowl? What the F are you going to do every single day?

I already golf and say hello to lefty, even garden on a regular basis. If I don't work I've got nothing to do. I could occupy my time for a month or two...but I would be so damn bored.

Lots of fun things in life require $$$. You can sail for a hobby and decide to sail around the world one year. That will cost you $$$$$$.

If you find a girl and you start f'ing, and she discovers that you have retired early at age 43 and living off dividends, she will not want to work and instead will want to travel and do other shiiiit with you. That will cost $$$$$. Not $$. If it costs you $$ she won't be f'ing you anymore.

Perhaps I'm a workalcoholic. I worked 1,728 hours last year. I could cut back but I swear I would get bored. And I even have kids. Teenagers. They hate me and do not want anything to do with me. (Well...they don't hate me they just want money to go hang out with their friends.)

Honestly maybe I'm a sad sod, but I would be bored if I retired early.

Plus....it's hard to retire early in the Bay Area. And I'm not gonna move because I like it here. Along with like 8M other people.

 

[miacomet]

I think most people who make 300-450K / year can retire early. But lots of things have to happen for that to occur. And they usually don't. The principle one is to live like you make 50K a year which the majority of people do not once you make 300K/year.

Moreover there is the concept of doing something with your time. You can retire early but seriously what the F are you going to do when you retire at age 43? You have 40-50 more years of your life. You are single. You live in a home you paid off. You have a kitty of 4M and you live off of dividends and make 150K/year. What are you going to do every day of your life? Play golf? Masturbate? Trade options and watch CNBC? Take photography lessons? Garden? Bowl? What the F are you going to do every single day of your life?

I already golf and say hello to lefty, even garden on a regular basis. If I don't work I've got nothing to do. I could occupy my time for a month or two...but I would be so damn bored.

Lots of fun things in life require $$$. You can sail for a hobby and decide to sail around the world one year. That will cost you $$$$$$.

If you find a girl and you start f'ing, and she discovers that you have retired early at age 43 and living off dividends, she will not want to work and do **** with you. That will cost $$$$$. Not $$. If it costs you $$ she won't be f'ing you anymore.

Perhaps I'm a workalcoholic. I worked 1,728 hours last year. I could cut back but I swear I would get bored. And I even had kids. Teenagers. They hate me and do not want anything to do with me. (Well...they don't hate me they just want money to go hang out with their friends.)

Honestly maybe I'm a sad sod, but I would be bored if I retired early.

Plus....it's hard to retire early in the Bay Area. And I'm not gonna move because I like it here. Along with like 8M other people.

You are a workaholic
I would garden, hike, hang out with friends, visit family overseas, hike all the long trails, learn Spanish, move to Guatemala or Mexico for awhile, work on writing, photography, and some other creative endeavors, engage in some causes I find really important...I would never have time to work! I don't now....

 

[thegenius]

You are a workaholic
I would garden, hike, hang out with friends, visit family overseas, hike all the long trails, learn Spanish, move to Guatemala or Mexico for awhile, work on writing, photography, and some other creative endeavors, engage in some causes I find really important...I would never have time to work! I don't now....

OMG
I would listen to the Gratefel Dead all the time, but I already do. I would consider traveling, but traveling is boring to me and just a money sink. I would drink all the time but I would probably just get cirrhosis and varices. That would suck balls. I'm sad

 

[bravotwozero]

1728 hours per year is about 12 12 hours shifts a month, which is about what I do. I think that's quite doable.