Howard vs Meharry- Is one better than the other?

[Tootyfruity]

---

Members do not see this ad.

You dont think i dont realize what world we live in? Go back and check what I highlighted. Then read my reply again.

methinks he was on your side bra

 

[Andre3k]

Is this a joke?

I assure you that there are many other schools significantly harder than Howard. The DAT is actually designed to measure general academic ability, comprehension of scientific information, and perceptual ability. You simply say it's not an indicator because you couldn't do as well, so you ended up at the school with the easiest admission standards in the county.

If you feel it's that hard, it's probably because most of you going to Howard and Meharry had such low gpa and DAT scores and you're not prepared. If anything, I'd guess it's significantly easier than other schools, which still probably seems like hell for people with 2.6 GPAs and 14 DAT scores, or even for people with the average Howard/Meharry scores of a 3.0 gpa and 17s and 16s, that have no business getting into dental school.

I assure you that I would be doing well at any dental school I chose to attend. As would many of my classmates with National Board scores to prove it. Howard is hard because its a difficult school not because we are ******ed or anything. There are many reasons for some one to have a below average GPA or DAT in undergrad. If the average DAT of students attending Howard is a 17 that means that there are several students above that number as well. Many of us made 20+ on the DAT and had 3.5+ GPAs. But again I dont really feel like those things matter in dental school. Its a different ball game.

I know its hard to believe from the outside looking in but GPAs and DATs in undergrad have nothing to do with how good dental student will be or how good a dental school is. I used to think the same way you are thinking.

 

[Andre3k]

I agree with most things you say about Howard. However, why do applicants with bad stats even get a chance, especially DAT scores of 16 and 17? Because they are URM? You know that 16 or 17 on DAT is so below average right? This might sound harsh, but it's just not fair lol. Don't get me wrong, I am a minority as well.

Umm... the average DAT score is a 17 last time I checked.

And DAT scores and GPAs dont give you the whole story. A student could easily be a better student than their stats. You have to keep your mind open to different situations and hardships people may have been through. On the flip side a fairly intelligent person could have partied all through undergrad and ended up with subpar stats. Yet they get in to dental school and start taking things seriously and end up being at the top of their class.

Undergrad GPAs and DAT scores are merely snapshots of a person. No ones future should be based solely on those numbers. I think Howard does a good job of looking beyond just those stats. There are people smarter than me that had lower stats than I did coming in to dental school.

 

[Kentuckylover]

methinks he was on your side bra

Yea I know, but I was only talking about GPA/DAT scores. No political stuff are needed.

 

[Kentuckylover]

Umm... the average DAT score is a 17 last time I checked.

And DAT scores and GPAs dont give you the whole story. A student could easily be a better student than their stats. You have to keep your mind open to different situations and hardships people may have been through. On the flip side a fairly intelligent person could have partied all through undergrad and ended up with subpar stats. Yet they get in to dental school and start taking things seriously and end up being at the top of their class.

Undergrad GPAs and DAT scores are merely snapshots of a person. No ones future should be based solely on those numbers. I think Howard does a good job of looking beyond just those stats. There are people smarter than me that had lower stats than I did coming in to dental school.

Yes. you are right. As you said, the DAT average of every one (including yours and mine) is 17. However, the average of many people who attend dental schools are at least 19+, even 20+. There are some people who do get in with OKAY stats, but you still need at least 18+. We never called people who attend Howard or Meharry ******s or anything, so please don't be offended.

You stated that " a fairly intelligent person could have partied all through undergrad and ended up with subpar stats. Yet they get in to dental school and start taking things seriously and end up being at the top of their class." Why these people even get chances when there are people out there who tried their best through out four years of college to keep their good stats, but still end up not getting into dental schools. I was personally involved in many activities and love partying. BUT that doesn't mean you can just go out and partying while being irresponsible for your work.

DAT and GPAs are snap shots? No, it tests your academic background and to see how much work you have done in your undergraduates. Howard looks beyond just stats? Like what? Life stories? I bet every one who is applying to dental schools has their own unique stories, so I don't really understand what the admission staff at Howard are looking for.

Bottom line is... Howard is very unique, and I know it, but there is no way it is hardest dental school. You might still think people with lower stats do well ONCE they get in, but why would they even deserve that chance?

 

[hopeful57]

I assure you that I would be doing well at any dental school I chose to attend. As would many of my classmates with National Board scores to prove it. Howard is hard because its a difficult school not because we are ******ed or anything. There are many reasons for some one to have a below average GPA or DAT in undergrad. If the average DAT of students attending Howard is a 17 that means that there are several students above that number as well. Many of us made 20+ on the DAT and had 3.5+ GPAs. But again I dont really feel like those things matter in dental school. Its a different ball game.

I know its hard to believe from the outside looking in but GPAs and DATs in undergrad have nothing to do with how good dental student will be or how good a dental school is. I used to think the same way you are thinking.

I'm sorry if I don't accept the assurances of someone that goes to the school with the lowest admission standards. Howard is probably difficult because many of you do not belong in dental school. Yes, and that 17 also means that there are people in your class with 13 and 14 to balance out those "many of us made 20+". It can't be that many, or else the average would be higher.

Actually, gpa and DAT scores are a good indication of your ability the handle to course load given in dental school, which is why they're used a factors considered for admission. You only feel that way because your school scores the worst in basically every category. You are second to last in some, with Meharry taking that title in those. I know it's hard for you to be honest because you go there, but if you're being honest with yourself you would admit that a large part of your class didn't deserve to get into dental school.

 

[hopeful57]

Yes. you are right. As you said, the DAT average of every one (including yours and mine) is 17. However, the average of many people who attend dental schools are at least 19+, even 20+. There are some people who do get in with OKAY stats, but you still need at least 18+. We never called people who attend Howard or Meharry ******s or anything, so please don't be offended.

You stated that " a fairly intelligent person could have partied all through undergrad and ended up with subpar stats. Yet they get in to dental school and start taking things seriously and end up being at the top of their class." Why these people even get chances when there are people out there who tried their best through out four years of college to keep their good stats, but still end up not getting into dental schools. I was personally involved in many activities and love partying. BUT that doesn't mean you can just go out and partying while being irresponsible for your work.

DAT and GPAs are snap shots? No, it tests your academic background and to see how much work you have done in your undergraduates. Howard looks beyond just stats? Like what? Life stories? I bet every one who is applying to dental schools has their own unique stories, so I don't really understand what the admission staff at Howard are looking for.

Bottom line is... Howard is very unique, and I know it, but there is no way it is hardest dental school. You might still think people with lower stats do well ONCE they get in, but why would they even deserve that chance?

Exactly. The average of accepted students is a DAT score of a little over a 19. The 17 may be the average, but it's the average for everyone. This includes all the people that didn't have the stats to get accepted.

 

[Pistorius]

Adre3k, you make good arguements concerning howard's students. I don't know why SOME poeple here think EVERY STUDENT at howard is not deserving of becoming a dentist simply because they go to Howard. I am URM, have a gpa above 3.5 and a 19 DAT (i took it twice). This year, I recieved acceptances from Howard, Tufts, NYU and Boston University. After some hard thinking, I have decided to attend Howard because i can't afford to drop anything around 350 grand on my education (i have no one to help with tuition or anything....its all on me) like i would have to if i go to any of the other 3 schools. My debt would be around 170 grand for howard......but it might even be lower if i'm able to win tuition scholarships after my first year there. I too was at first skeptical about attending there but i've come to the realization that i can make it from there too.
(i attended a small college in the middle of no where but was able to get interview invites, and actually interviewed at Tufts and NYU with a UCLA grad, Columbia grad and one guy from MIT - - and I still got into all the schools i interviewed at). So it isn't everyone at Howard who didn't get there on merit, but even so, academic merit is not everything.

 

[omnipoDent]

Adre3k, you make good arguements concerning howard's students. I don't know why SOME poeple here think EVERY STUDENT at howard is not deserving of becoming a dentist simply because they go to Howard. I am URM, have a gpa above 3.5 and a 19 DAT (i took it twice). This year, I recieved acceptances from Howard, Tufts, NYU and Boston University. After some hard thinking, I have decided to attend Howard because i can't afford to drop anything around 350 grand on my education (i have no one to help with tuition or anything....its all on me) like i would have to if i go to any of the other 3 schools. My debt would be around 170 grand for howard......but it might even be lower if i'm able to win tuition scholarships after my first year there. I too was at first skeptical about attending there but i've come to the realization that i can make it from there too.
(i attended a small college in the middle of no where but was able to get interview invites, and actually interviewed at Tufts and NYU with a UCLA grad, Columbia grad and one guy from MIT - - and I still got into all the schools i interviewed at). So it isn't everyone at Howard who didn't get there on merit, but even so, academic merit is not everything.

I wasn't going to chime in here, as I see this getting ugly, but your situation is different. Having a 3.5 and a 19 DAT, those are stronger numbers, and choosing to go to Howard is one thing. I think what hopeful57 has an issue with is the fact that you're far from the norm at Howard, as the average DAT is 17 and the average gpa is oGPA is 3.1 (lowest in the country).

Academics, gpa and DAT scores, are the standard measuring tool for success in graduate school and is expected from those wishing to attend. If you don't have the numbers to be competitive, then you shouldn't attend. Academic merit isn't everything in life, though, as you can just as easily not go to graduate school and enter the working world.

 

[Andre3k]

I'm sorry if I don't accept the assurances of someone that goes to the school with the lowest admission standards. Howard is probably difficult because many of you do not belong in dental school. Yes, and that 17 also means that there are people in your class with 13 and 14 to balance out those "many of us made 20+". It can't be that many, or else the average would be higher.

Actually, gpa and DAT scores are a good indication of your ability the handle to course load given in dental school, which is why they're used a factors considered for admission. You only feel that way because your school scores the worst in basically every category. You are second to last in some, with Meharry taking that title in those. I know it's hard for you to be honest because you go there, but if you're being honest with yourself you would admit that a large part of your class didn't deserve to get into dental school.

I have to disagree with just about everything you said here. Yeah we are the worst in the categories you are looking at DAT and GPA. Those categories have nothing to do with how you will perform IN dental school.

I think you should take my assurances. What do the admission standards of my school have to do with me personally? I told you already that I CHOSE to go to Howard. Many of us had options and chose to go to Howard. Until you enter dental school and actually have a legitimate opinion on this matter you should be a little more open minded.

Everybody in my class deserved to go to dental school and we will all become competent dentists. We all take the same standardized, national board exams that every dental student across the nation takes. If we weren't deserving of an opportunity then we wouldn't pass those exams. But the vast majority of us do.

Do me a favor and update me on your GPA and board scores as you progress through dental school. I guarantee that I can find someone each year at Howard or Meharry with a better GPA and board score than you have and they more than likely will have had a lower DAT score and a lower undergrad GPA.

GPA and DAT scores do not ALWAYS correlate to success in dental school. They are only used in admissions because there is no other way to view an applicant objectively. Other factors have to be considered.

 

[mike ashley]

I have to disagree with just about everything you said here. Yeah we are the worst in the categories you are looking at DAT and GPA. Those categories have nothing to do with how you will perform IN dental school.

I think you should take my assurances. What do the admission standards of my school have to do with me personally? I told you already that I CHOSE to go to Howard. Many of us had options and chose to go to Howard. Until you enter dental school and actually have a legitimate opinion on this matter you should be a little more open minded.

Everybody in my class deserved to go to dental school and we will all become competent dentists. We all take the same standardized, national board exams that every dental student across the nation takes. If we weren't deserving of an opportunity then we wouldn't pass those exams. But the vast majority of us do.

Do me a favor and update me on your GPA and board scores as you progress through dental school. I guarantee that I can find someone each year at Howard or Meharry with a better GPA and board score than you have and they more than likely will have had a lower DAT score and a lower undergrad GPA.

GPA and DAT scores do not correlate to success in dental school. They are only used in admissions because there is no other way to view an applicant objectively. Other factors have to be considered.

Then what exactly correlates to success in dental school? What are those "other factors" that have to be considered?

What is howard's average on each section of Part I?

Anways, I give you exhibit A:

http://www.mmc.edu/sacsqep/05. Corr...h Dental school performance and attrition.PDF

It has never been stated that such factors are full proof and there are no exceptions, but it does not change the fact that things such as grades and test scores retain their value as predictive tools.

A lot of urms I have spoken with share the same sentiment as you and trivialize the importance of test scores and grades. If that is going to be the attitude of the majority of urms, then they will continue to remain at the bottom of the barrel in terms of their academic achievements.

 

[Andre3k]

Then what exactly correlates to success in dental school? What are those "other factors" that have to be considered?

What is howard's average on each section of Part I?

Anways, I give you exhibit A:

http://www.mmc.edu/sacsqep/05. Corr...h Dental school performance and attrition.PDF

It has never been stated that such factors are full proof and there are no exceptions, but it does not change the fact that things such as grades and test scores retain their value as predictive tools.

A lot of urms I have spoken with share the same sentiment as you and trivialize the importance of test scores and grades. If that is going to be the attitude of the majority of urms, then they will continue to remain at the bottom of the barrel in terms of their academic achievements.

Yeah you are right. Often times GPA and DAT scores are good indicators but that isn't always the case. My point is sometimes for some students it isn't indicative of their potential for success, and for that reason you can just go around basing a student's potential on those numbers alone.
People definitely cant go around looking down on people who got into school with lower stats because you dont know the entire story.

If the URMs you are referring to share the same sentiment as I do then they dont trivialize the importance of test scores they just know that they have their place amongst a host of other criteria that dental school admission should be based upon. I have my own personal reason why stats are important which is the reason why my stats are good.
However I do understand that there is WAY more to being a dentist than test scores and GPAs.
How well do you relate to people?
Can you hold a conversation?
How well do you work with children? With the elderly? What experiences have you had with them?
How good are you with your hands?
How do you handle difficult situations? Difficult people?
Do you have a sense of humor?
Are you emotionally stable?
What other things have you done in your life besides study for class and tests?

The answers to those questions are FAR more indicative of your success as a dentist than a DAT and GPA.

A well rounded C student with a 17 DAT that has good public speaking skills, good hand skills, and a good personality is MUCH better suited to be a dentist in my opinion than a Straight A student with a 26 DAT that cannot relate to people and cannot communicate effectively.
However if that 17 DAT, C average student never gets an interview then all those other relevant characteristics go over looked. See my point?

90% of the stuff on the DAT and 90% of the stuff you learn in undergrad have nothing to do with being a dentist. Do you realize that?

Or do realize this? 75% of the stuff you learn in class in dental school you will COMPLETELY forget when you graduate and it will not in any way effect your potential for success.

You think that the most important quality for a dental student or dentist to have is good test scores? And a good GPA? I could care less about how well my dentist did in Histology or Biochem or his sophomore undergrad Botany class. All of that is irrelevant. What does a DAT score mean in the real world? Nothing.


We have to look at the whole person and not look down on people just because their stats are lower than yours. They probably have a host of other skills that are more important that you dont possess.

 

[Seamonkey Doc]

Yeah you are right. Often times GPA and DAT scores are good indicators but that isn't always the case. My point is sometimes for some students it isn't indicative of their potential for success, and for that reason you can just go around basing a student's potential on those numbers alone.
People definitely cant go around looking down on people who got into school with lower stats because you dont know the entire story.

If the URMs you are referring to share the same sentiment as I do then they dont trivialize the importance of test scores they just know that they have their place amongst a host of other criteria that dental school admission should be based upon. I have my own personal reason why stats are important which is the reason why my stats are good.
However I do understand that there is WAY more to being a dentist than test scores and GPAs.
How well do you relate to people?
Can you hold a conversation?
How well do you work with children? With the elderly? What experiences have you had with them?
How good are you with your hands?
How do you handle difficult situations? Difficult people?
Do you have a sense of humor?
Are you emotionally stable?
What other things have you done in your life besides study for class and tests?

The answers to those questions are FAR more indicative of your success as a dentist than a DAT and GPA.

A well rounded C student with a 17 DAT that has good public speaking skills, good hand skills, and a good personality is MUCH better suited to be a dentist in my opinion than a Straight A student with a 26 DAT that cannot relate to people and cannot communicate effectively.
However if that 17 DAT, C average student never gets an interview then all those other relevant characteristics go over looked. See my point?

90% of the stuff on the DAT and 90% of the stuff you learn in undergrad have nothing to do with being a dentist. Do you realize that?

Or do realize this? 75% of the stuff you learn in class in dental school you will COMPLETELY forget when you graduate and it will not in any way effect your potential for success.

You think that the most important quality for a dental student or dentist to have is good test scores? And a good GPA? I could care less about how well my dentist did in Histology or Biochem or his sophomore undergrad Botany class. All of that is irrelevant. What does a DAT score mean in the real world? Nothing.


We have to look at the whole person and not look down on people just because their stats are lower than yours. They probably have a host of other skills that are more important that you dont possess.

👍
Well said

 

[mike ashley]

Yeah you are right. Often times GPA and DAT scores are good indicators but that isn't always the case. My point is sometimes for some students it isn't indicative of their potential for success, and for that reason you can just go around basing a student's potential on those numbers alone.
People definitely cant go around looking down on people who got into school with lower stats because you dont know the entire story.

If the URMs you are referring to share the same sentiment as I do then they dont trivialize the importance of test scores they just know that they have their place amongst a host of other criteria that dental school admission should be based upon. I have my own personal reason why stats are important which is the reason why my stats are good.
However I do understand that there is WAY more to being a dentist than test scores and GPAs.
How well do you relate to people?
Can you hold a conversation?
How well do you work with children? With the elderly? What experiences have you had with them?
How good are you with your hands?
How do you handle difficult situations? Difficult people?
Do you have a sense of humor?
Are you emotionally stable?
What other things have you done in your life besides study for class and tests?

The answers to those questions are FAR more indicative of your success as a dentist than a DAT and GPA.

A well rounded C student with a 17 DAT that has good public speaking skills, good hand skills, and a good personality is MUCH better suited to be a dentist in my opinion than a Straight A student with a 26 DAT that cannot relate to people and cannot communicate effectively.
However if that 17 DAT, C average student never gets an interview then all those other relevant characteristics go over looked. See my point?

90% of the stuff on the DAT and 90% of the stuff you learn in undergrad have nothing to do with being a dentist. Do you realize that?

Or do realize this? 75% of the stuff you learn in class in dental school you will COMPLETELY forget when you graduate and it will not in any way effect your potential for success.

You think that the most important quality for a dental student or dentist to have is good test scores? And a good GPA? I could care less about how well my dentist did in Histology or Biochem or his sophomore undergrad Botany class. All of that is irrelevant. What does a DAT score mean in the real world? Nothing.


We have to look at the whole person and not look down on people just because their stats are lower than yours. They probably have a host of other skills that are more important that you dont possess.

Fair enough. When you said there is no correlation, it just seemed like you were trying to marginalize the accomplishments of those who got high grades and test scores in an effort to show that they belong and will succeed in dental school.

 

[hopeful57]

Yeah you are right. Often times GPA and DAT scores are good indicators but that isn't always the case. My point is sometimes for some students it isn't indicative of their potential for success, and for that reason you can just go around basing a student's potential on those numbers alone.
People definitely cant go around looking down on people who got into school with lower stats because you dont know the entire story.

If the URMs you are referring to share the same sentiment as I do then they dont trivialize the importance of test scores they just know that they have their place amongst a host of other criteria that dental school admission should be based upon. I have my own personal reason why stats are important which is the reason why my stats are good.
However I do understand that there is WAY more to being a dentist than test scores and GPAs.
How well do you relate to people?
Can you hold a conversation?
How well do you work with children? With the elderly? What experiences have you had with them?
How good are you with your hands?
How do you handle difficult situations? Difficult people?
Do you have a sense of humor?
Are you emotionally stable?
What other things have you done in your life besides study for class and tests?

The answers to those questions are FAR more indicative of your success as a dentist than a DAT and GPA.

A well rounded C student with a 17 DAT that has good public speaking skills, good hand skills, and a good personality is MUCH better suited to be a dentist in my opinion than a Straight A student with a 26 DAT that cannot relate to people and cannot communicate effectively.
However if that 17 DAT, C average student never gets an interview then all those other relevant characteristics go over looked. See my point?

90% of the stuff on the DAT and 90% of the stuff you learn in undergrad have nothing to do with being a dentist. Do you realize that?

Or do realize this? 75% of the stuff you learn in class in dental school you will COMPLETELY forget when you graduate and it will not in any way effect your potential for success.

You think that the most important quality for a dental student or dentist to have is good test scores? And a good GPA? I could care less about how well my dentist did in Histology or Biochem or his sophomore undergrad Botany class. All of that is irrelevant. What does a DAT score mean in the real world? Nothing.


We have to look at the whole person and not look down on people just because their stats are lower than yours. They probably have a host of other skills that are more important that you dont possess.

What?!?😱 Honestly, I believe your opinions are absurd and scary. You have simply rationalized your decision to attend the statistically worst dental school in the country by just saying that stats aren't the most important things.

Howard is the HARDEST dental school in the nation I guarantee that. Didactically and clinically.

You're this mountain of contradictions. You make dental school sound like some social club where someone with a "sense of humor" that can't pass bio or anatomy 1 in undergrad is better suited for dental school than someone that's serious that gets an A in both. So, I guess there are all of these really funny people running around Howard that can't do well in their classes, not that it matters anyway in your opinion, but they are somehow able to make it at, as you proclaimed, the "HARDEST dental school in the country?"

However I do understand that there is WAY more to being a dentist than test scores and GPAs.
How well do you relate to people?
Can you hold a conversation?
How well do you work with children? With the elderly? What experiences have you had with them?
How good are you with your hands?
How do you handle difficult situations? Difficult people?
Do you have a sense of humor?
Are you emotionally stable?
What other things have you done in your life besides study for class and tests?

The answers to those questions are FAR more indicative of your success as a dentist than a DAT and GPA.

Your ideal candidate sounds better suited to be a party planner than a dentist.😕

You know who can also meet all those "important" things you listed? A circus clown: great sense of humor, great with kids, makes old and angry people laugh, can hold a conversation, and is great with his hands from making balloon animals. I guess dental schools have been doing it all wrong focusing on students that are intelligent enough to actually know the nerves of the face or to come up with a proper treatment plan for each patient. They should just follow the circus for potential students. As the clowns can probably also get a 14 overall on the DAT, like the lower end Howard and Meharry students, who cares, right? They'll be idiots, but at least the patients will leave laughing.


View attachment 919586_a20b_1024x2000.jpg

A well rounded C student with a 17 DAT that has good public speaking skills, good hand skills, and a good personality is MUCH better suited to be a dentist in my opinion than a Straight A student with a 26 DAT that cannot relate to people and cannot communicate effectively.

I can't believe you actually said a C student with a 17 DAT and good public speaking skills is better than some A student with a 26 DAT that can't communicate. Sorry, I'll take the quite person that does great work over the individual that's really personable but was barely able to pass chemistry 1. Also, the 17 is Howard's DAT average, so there are a good amount of students under that. What would suggest that someone barely able to pass and got a 14 DAT average can remember enough to take everything needed into account to give a proper treatment plan for different scenarios with patients?

What does a DAT score mean in the real world? Nothing.

In the real world, the DAT is something you did well on to show you were capable of handling the amount of information needed to succeed in a legitimate dental school setting to become a competent dentist. Fortunately, all of those in admissions and academia share my opinion about the importance of DAT and GPA. Sorry, I'll be taking myself to that serious person, and will be avoiding Howard grads if you are representative of how their students feel. I'm not there for comedy hour. I'm there for good work being done by someone with the intellect to create a good treatment plan.

This is as absurd as when I read articles saying the SAT is racist because blacks were not performing as well as asians and whites. The standards and indicators for success are there. You either achieve what is needed to be admitted or you don't. You can't simply flush the system because you can't score well enough.

90% of the stuff on the DAT and 90% of the stuff you learn in undergrad have nothing to do with being a dentist. Do you realize that?

Or do realize this? 75% of the stuff you learn in class in dental school you will COMPLETELY forget when you graduate and it will not in any way effect your potential for success.

You say 90% of the DAT is irrelevant and "you" will forget 75% of things "you" learn in dental school.

First, I'd love to see the numbers supporting those claims.

Second, I guess if 3/4 of dental is irrelevant and we will just forget it we should make it a year, huh? My guess is that forgetting 3/4 of everything you learn is just something you've gotten used to at Howard, and, as you're not out yet either, I'm not sure how you're even remotely qualified to make this claim anyway.

I guess we should just reshape our entire university system so we just ignore grades and those stupid test scores and look at the "overall person" and the "good" people get into Penn, while the "bad" people go to CC. We'll remove ability to learn information and ability to master a subject to push the field as the major factors to consider, and defer to people that make good jokes and can hold a conversation.

 

[Seamonkey Doc]

What?!?😱 Honestly, I believe your opinions are absurd and scary. You have simply rationalized your decision to attend the statistically worst dental school in the country by just saying that stats aren't the most important things.



You're this mountain of contradictions. You make dental school sound like some social club where someone with a "sense of humor" that can't pass bio or anatomy 1 in undergrad is better suited for dental school than someone that's serious that gets an A in both. So, I guess there are all of these really funny people running around Howard that can't do well in their classes, not that it matters anyway in your opinion, but they are somehow able to make it at, as you proclaimed, the "HARDEST dental school in the country?"



Your ideal candidate sounds better suited to be a party planner than a dentist.😕

You know who can also meet all those "important" things you listed? A circus clown: great sense of humor, great with kids, makes old and angry people laugh, can hold a conversation, and is great with his hands from making balloon animals. I guess dental schools have been doing it all wrong focusing on students that are intelligent enough to actually know the nerves of the face or to come up with a proper treatment plan for each patient. They should just follow the circus for potential students. As the clowns can probably also get a 14 overall on the DAT, like the lower end Howard and Meharry students, who cares, right? They'll be idiots, but at least the patients will leave laughing.


View attachment 18691



I can't believe you actually said a C student with a 17 DAT and good public speaking skills is better than some A student with a 26 DAT that can't communicate. Sorry, I'll take the quite person that does great work over the individual that's really personable but was barely able to pass chemistry 1. Also, the 17 is Howard's DAT average, so there are a good amount of students under that. What would suggest that someone barely able to pass and got a 14 DAT average can remember enough to take everything needed into account to give a proper treatment plan for different scenarios with patients?



In the real world, the DAT is something you did well on to show you were capable of handling the amount of information needed to succeed in a legitimate dental school setting to become a competent dentist. Fortunately, all of those in admissions and academia share my opinion about the importance of DAT and GPA. Sorry, I'll be taking myself to that serious person, and will be avoiding Howard grads if you are representative of how their students feel. I'm not there for comedy hour. I'm there for good work being done by someone with the intellect to create a good treatment plan.



You say 90% of the DAT is irrelevant and "you" will forget 75% of things "you" learn in dental school.

First, I'd love to see the numbers supporting those claims.

Second, I guess if 3/4 of dental is irrelevant and we will just forget it we should make it a year, huh? My guess is that forgetting 3/4 of everything you learn is just something you've gotten used to at Howard, and, as you're not out yet either, I'm not sure how you're even remotely qualified to make this claim anyway.

I guess we should just reshape our entire university system so we just ignore grades and those stupid test scores and look at the "overall person" and the "good" people get into Penn, while the "bad" people go to CC. We'll remove ability to learn information and ability to master a subject to push the field as the major factors to consider, and defer to people that make good jokes and can hold a conversation.

This is all as absurd as when I read articles the SAT is racist because blacks were not performing as well as asians and whites. The standards and indicators for success are there. You either achieve what is needed to be admitted or you don't. You can't simply flush the system because you can't score well enough.

Wow dude, wow....

And since when do clowns need to be good with their hands or handle difficult situations?

PS: An unhappy crowd and balloon animals don't count. Unless of course the audience has a dental phobia and the balloon animals are the size of human teeth.

 

[terry gordy]

nvm

 

[JustwantDDS]

Ok i have to admit i didnt read through this whole thread but i did get the general gist. But let me use myself as an example, i scored a 21 ts/20aa on the DAT and have a cgpa of 3.4- i got into howard i'm not african american or hispanic, and i dont consider myself a below average student. I may not get into my state school, umd, but thats besides the point- you honestly cant generalize the entire howard student body. I do understand where people get the stigma/ misconceptions from however, because i cant say that there ARENT ppl w/ low gpa/ low DAT scores that are at HU. However, i feel like if someone isnt academically ready they WILL get weeded out in D1 for sure.

Are any of you familiar with the stu-DENT diary/ blog- the blogger is an HU student ... And from the postings and information on that blog you can tell they are well educated, academically successful dental student.... So please dont judge everything based off stats.
We're all ultimately trying to become good clinicians, & the educ system has so many checks/ balances that it will keep out those who truly cant make it academically.

 

[Andre3k]

What?!?😱 Honestly, I believe your opinions are absurd and scary. You have simply rationalized your decision to attend the statistically worst dental school in the country by just saying that stats aren't the most important things.



You're this mountain of contradictions. You make dental school sound like some social club where someone with a "sense of humor" that can't pass bio or anatomy 1 in undergrad is better suited for dental school than someone that's serious that gets an A in both. So, I guess there are all of these really funny people running around Howard that can't do well in their classes, not that it matters anyway in your opinion, but they are somehow able to make it at, as you proclaimed, the "HARDEST dental school in the country?"



Your ideal candidate sounds better suited to be a party planner than a dentist.😕

You know who can also meet all those "important" things you listed? A circus clown: great sense of humor, great with kids, makes old and angry people laugh, can hold a conversation, and is great with his hands from making balloon animals. I guess dental schools have been doing it all wrong focusing on students that are intelligent enough to actually know the nerves of the face or to come up with a proper treatment plan for each patient. They should just follow the circus for potential students. As the clowns can probably also get a 14 overall on the DAT, like the lower end Howard and Meharry students, who cares, right? They'll be idiots, but at least the patients will leave laughing.


View attachment 18691



I can't believe you actually said a C student with a 17 DAT and good public speaking skills is better than some A student with a 26 DAT that can’t communicate. Sorry, I'll take the quite person that does great work over the individual that's really personable but was barely able to pass chemistry 1. Also, the 17 is Howard's DAT average, so there are a good amount of students under that. What would suggest that someone barely able to pass and got a 14 DAT average can remember enough to take everything needed into account to give a proper treatment plan for different scenarios with patients?



In the real world, the DAT is something you did well on to show you were capable of handling the amount of information needed to succeed in a legitimate dental school setting to become a competent dentist. Fortunately, all of those in admissions and academia share my opinion about the importance of DAT and GPA. Sorry, I'll be taking myself to that serious person, and will be avoiding Howard grads if you are representative of how their students feel. I'm not there for comedy hour. I'm there for good work being done by someone with the intellect to create a good treatment plan.

This is as absurd as when I read articles saying the SAT is racist because blacks were not performing as well as asians and whites. The standards and indicators for success are there. You either achieve what is needed to be admitted or you don't. You can't simply flush the system because you can't score well enough.



You say 90% of the DAT is irrelevant and "you" will forget 75% of things "you" learn in dental school.

First, I'd love to see the numbers supporting those claims.

Second, I guess if 3/4 of dental is irrelevant and we will just forget it we should make it a year, huh? My guess is that forgetting 3/4 of everything you learn is just something you've gotten used to at Howard, and, as you're not out yet either, I'm not sure how you're even remotely qualified to make this claim anyway.

I guess we should just reshape our entire university system so we just ignore grades and those stupid test scores and look at the "overall person" and the "good" people get into Penn, while the "bad" people go to CC. We'll remove ability to learn information and ability to master a subject to push the field as the major factors to consider, and defer to people that make good jokes and can hold a conversation.

Lol seems like you missed my point entirely. I wasnt giving you an outline of how Howard does things leave Howard out of the conversation at this point. I was trying to emphasize other qualities that are more practical than grades that a dentist should have. Interpersonal skills are much more important that the material on the DAT. Judging someone based soley on a DAT score and GPA is overlooking several more important characteristics that make a good applicant and future dentist.

 

[Andre3k]

You just don't know how much information you learn in undergrad and dental school that is completely irrelevant. Wait till you get in dental school. All Histology, all Biochem, Anatomy of the back, arms, thoracic cavity, most of Microbiology, half of Pharmacology, are completely irrelevant to dentistry. That's most of 1st and 2nd yr right there.
Most of NBDE part 1 is completely irrelevant to dentistry as well.
Why judge someones potential as a dentist based of there performance on material that doesn't matter?
I'm not saying you should get terrible grades and poor test scores. But performance on those things are only half the story in my opinion. There are so many other things that go into being a dentist than grades and random knowledge.

Wait you will see, you will be banging your head up against the wall thinking why do I have to learn this stuff.

 

[timwatley]

You just don't know how much information you learn in undergrad and dental school that is completely irrelevant. Wait till you get in dental school. All Histology, all Biochem, Anatomy of the back, arms, thoracic cavity, most of Microbiology, half of Pharmacology, are completely irrelevant to dentistry. That's most of 1st and 2nd yr right there.
Most of NBDE part 1 is completely irrelevant to dentistry as well.
Why judge someones potential as a dentist based of there performance on material that doesn't matter?
I'm not saying you should get terrible grades and poor test scores. But performance on those things are only half the story in my opinion. There are so many other things that go into being a dentist than grades and random knowledge.

Wait you will see, you will be banging your head up against the wall thinking why do I have to learn this stuff.

Another 2 years of wading through useless **** before I learn a useful skill - sounds horrible. It all works out in the end though.

 

[Pistorius]

I wasn't going to chime in here, as I see this getting ugly, but your situation is different. Having a 3.5 and a 19 DAT, those are stronger numbers, and choosing to go to Howard is one thing. I think what hopeful57 has an issue with is the fact that you're far from the norm at Howard, as the average DAT is 17 and the average gpa is oGPA is 3.1 (lowest in the country).

Academics, gpa and DAT scores, are the standard measuring tool for success in graduate school and is expected from those wishing to attend. If you don't have the numbers to be competitive, then you shouldn't attend. Academic merit isn't everything in life, though, as you can just as easily not go to graduate school and enter the working world.

OmnipoDent, well spoken like a peer. We all know that Howard's numerical admission's standards are on the lower end...no one disputes this. But the problem with thinkers like hopeful57 is that they make generalizations about the ENTIRE student body just based on those numbers. He seems to refine this coarse generalizations in his latter posts though.....but he still misunderstood Andre3k's posts about other considerations when he (Hopeful57) BASICALLY equated those weaker students to CLOWNS!! Does Howard admit some students who should not be there, yes (and I'll say its unfortunate, but i stand by my earlier assertion that numbers is not everything....so Howard should limit the number of weaker students they admit), but does that give Hopeful57 the right to deride and question the academic abilities of the ENTIRE student body?, i don't think so. Hopeful57 does make some valid points though since i agree with his stance that those who do not have the intellect ought not be in dental school. After all, the issue of contention here is the number of weaker (GPA and DAT score-wise) students who are admitted at Howard, for we all know that MOST, if not EVERY school admits 1 or 2 (or even more) students who are not as academically inclined like the rest of the class. Its just unfortunate that Good or Ok students like myself who chose to go to Howard,and actually got there on merit will seemingly never be given our due (dare i say irrespective of how clinically good we are)...but such too is life.

 

[Ferneezy]

why are many if not most of you piping up that HUCD's average DAT is 17? a cursory look at their website (link for the lazy: http://www.dentistry.howard.edu/admissions.htm) clearly states their minimum requirements include DAT scores no lower than 17 across all the sections. so...in what world of dental class matriculation demographics does minimum = average?

i don't exactly have a dog in this fight as i'm not a student per se, but being a DC resident (admittedly with some past academic blemishes) i would be happy attending Howard or any other school i'm lucky enough to be accepted to. they're accredited, right?

their students match into all of the ADA recognized specialties, right?

what's the problem?

 

[mike ashley]

why are many if not most of you piping up that HUCD's average DAT is 17? a cursory look at their website (link for the lazy: http://www.dentistry.howard.edu/admissions.htm) clearly states their minimum requirements include DAT scores no lower than 17 across all the sections. so...in what world of dental class matriculation demographics does minimum = average?

i don't exactly have a dog in this fight as i'm not a student per se, but being a DC resident (admittedly with some past academic blemishes) i would be happy attending Howard or any other school i'm lucky enough to be accepted to. they're accredited, right?

their students match into all of the ADA recognized specialties, right?

what's the problem?

Schools say a lot of things on their websites.