Husband took LOA right before childbirth, chances of matching?

[baking_4]

Good morning,

I'm concerned about how I may have affected my SO's chances of getting into the residency he has always wanted and I'm ridden with guilt.

I had a difficult pregnancy and he ended up not passing two classes his second semester of M2 and subsequently took LOA. I gave birth two months later. I was in the hospital a lot and that affected his study time. We have no extra family help. Its just the two of us(now three ♥️).

He is excellent, doesnt have any other imperfections in his record, and also did a Masters before MD.
He has always wanted to go into Oncology.
I love him and want the best for him. How can Isupport better his dreams?

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[Darrow O'Lykos]

A LOA is totally reasonable during such a situation and not unheard of, and I’m sure the school agreed with the move as well. Some people take a LOA simply due to struggling, much less having a baby.

Having a child is a major life event (for both of you!). He should try and focus on helping you both navigate the transition and then start back up school next semester once y’all are better situated.

So long as he nails his clinical rotations, he should be okay. Being supportive and encouraging during that time, as well as perhaps finding other help outside of him once that time comes could be small ways you could support him.

Congrats to you both and best of luck to the three of y’all!

 

[Mass Effect]

Good morning,

I'm concerned about how I may have affected my SO's chances of getting into the residency he has always wanted and I'm ridden with guilt.

I had a difficult pregnancy and he ended up not passing two classes his second semester of M2 and subsequently took LOA. I gave birth two months later. I was in the hospital a lot and that affected his study time. We have no extra family help. Its just the two of us(now three ♥️).

He is excellent, doesnt have any other imperfections in his record, and also did a Masters before MD.
He has always wanted to go into Oncology.
I love him and want the best for him. How can Isupport better his dreams?

Congrats on the baby. You sound like a very loving wife.

Is your husband at a US MD school? He is going to need to pass the USMLE and do well on rotations. He should aim to get a high score on Step 2 (is Step 2 pass/fail yet?) and then he'll need to explain his M2 course failures, but if he does the above, that should be fine. He'll need an IM residency before fellowship in oncology. He will likely match (assuming he's at a US MD school).

 

[GoSpursGo]

Does he actually have failures on his transcript, or was he able to take an LOA before he failed? And/or would he be able to approach his school to see if his LOA could be retroactive to prior to his failures?

The LOA itself honestly isn't a huge deal, but if he has multiple failures on his transcript that would be a red flag. Not bad enough that he couldn't match into an IM program, but he might match at a less prestigious program which might not set him up as well for heme/onc fellowship application.

 

[baking_4]

Thank you for the kind and timely responses.
Also, thank you on the congratulations sent this way! We are very happy with our now almost 6 month old.

To answer a few q's, he is at a US MD school.
Yes, he does have two failures on transcript before LOA. He is taking on that semester now before Step 1(which is now pass/fail).

I told him I'll help in all ways to get hin extra stuff like volunteer hours in etc if he is worried about the grades. What other things could he do?

So his path is through IM to go to Onc?

He believes he'll do well in rotations. This year was just hard for us with the pregnancy/birth.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Volunteering really is pretty meaningless when it comes to residency applications. Research would be a better expenditure of his time, and in residency would be required for a successful heme/onc application.

He really should talk with his dean and see if there is any wiggle room to retroactively withdraw from those classes. The answer will probably be no... but it doesn't hurt to ask. It's not like he was lazy, he was just being pulled in multiple directions due to legitimate family medical issues.

 

[sloop]

Two failures will hurt. That’s just how it is.

That being said, oncology is a fellowship. If that’s the goal, he’ll have opportunities to establish a good record in residency. I’m a psychiatrist, not an oncologist or an internist, so I don’t know the specifics of those fields. That being said, I can’t imagine most people heavily scrutinizing the preclinical grades of an otherwise competitive fellowship applicant. By that time, he should have passed Steps 1-3 and gotten licensed. At that point, people are probably going to put much more weight on the fact that he is a licensed physician with good reviews from residency.

Now, residency applications are different. The fact is that issues like these are going to be emphasized more when there has been less time and intervening data points between those issues and the application. Again, I’m not an expert on the IM landscape but I can tell you how this would be handled by residencies in my field. In psychiatry, there might be a minority of places that would outright screen out an application because of failures, but I think this is probably rare even at the most competitive places. More likely is that the application would not be screened out but these problems an application would be scrutinized. My residency, which was a very well known institution, would interview people with red flags on rare occasions. These included a step failure, a course failure, etc. invariably, though, these people had very compelling personal stories explaining those performance issues that they discussed somewhere in their application. Although we did interview these people, I can’t remember a time we ever actually matched one.

Considering the above, my guess is that OP’s partner will have a hard time matching at the most competitive IM residencies but, assuming they do well during the remainder of med school, will probably match at a mid-tier place that would be good enough to get an oncology fellowship position if they do everything else right.

 

[Lawpy]

@NotAProgDirector thoughts pls?

 

[Med Ed]

Thank you for the kind and timely responses.
Also, thank you on the congratulations sent this way! We are very happy with our now almost 6 month old.

To answer a few q's, he is at a US MD school.
Yes, he does have two failures on transcript before LOA. He is taking on that semester now before Step 1(which is now pass/fail).

I told him I'll help in all ways to get hin extra stuff like volunteer hours in etc if he is worried about the grades. What other things could he do?

So his path is through IM to go to Onc?

He believes he'll do well in rotations. This year was just hard for us with the pregnancy/birth.

A lot of students fail courses in medical school (more than your average med student would guess). As part of the application package to residency your school will generate a standardized letter of evaluation called the MSPE (it used to be called the Dean's Letter). The Student Affairs Dean at your school may use some space in the MSPE to help contextualize the failures and LOA, which will soften their impact.

Regardless, since they are in the past, there is nothing to do now except get through the semester, pass Step 1 on the first try, and then get geared up for clinical rotations and Step 2. Getting a first or second author publication of any sort (case report, retrospective analysis, etc.) would be helpful.

You are correct, the path to oncology is through IM, and IM overall isn't very competitive. As @sloop said, targeting a mid-tier university-based program should pose no barriers to obtaining a good oncology fellowship, assuming there aren't any more bumps in the road.

 

[Banco]

Honestly, he'll be fine; it's not like he has clerkship year failures. Just do well in the rest of medical school/exams. Then explain the situation on ERAS (can also have the dean's letter mention it). Any program that legitimately dings him for prioritizing his family situation isn't worth his time.

Oncology fellowship is obtained through IM residency, which is low-moderate competitive depending on the program. So he should be more than okay for that.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Preclinical failures followed by a good S1 score will not be a huge problem. And no one will care about the LOA.

 

[baking_4]

A lot of students fail courses in medical school (more than your average med student would guess). As part of the application package to residency your school will generate a standardized letter of evaluation called the MSPE (it used to be called the Dean's Letter). The Student Affairs Dean at your school may use some space in the MSPE to help contextualize the failures and LOA, which will soften their impact.

Regardless, since they are in the past, there is nothing to do now except get through the semester, pass Step 1 on the first try, and then get geared up for clinical rotations and Step 2. Getting a first or second author publication of any sort (case report, retrospective analysis, etc.) would be helpful.

You are correct, the path to oncology is through IM, and IM overall isn't very competitive. As @sloop said, targeting a mid-tier university-based program should pose no barriers to obtaining a good oncology fellowship, assuming there aren't any more bumps in the road.

Thank you for letting me know. Does he have to ask the Dean to add this in to the letter?

Honestly, he'll be fine; it's not like he has clerkship year failures. Just do well in the rest of medical school/exams. Then explain the situation on ERAS (can also have the dean's letter mention it). Any program that legitimately dings him for prioritizing his family situation isn't worth his time.

Oncology fellowship is obtained through IM residency, which is low-moderate competitive depending on the program. So he should be more than okay for that.

Thank you so much for this advice. The reassurance means a lot for both of us. A previous poster mentioned university based programs..do these tend to also be low/moderare competitive or is there no association ?

When should he start looking into residency programs?(of course after he focuses on step 1)

He does have research but it was a couple years ago when he worked at a Path lab before he got into med school.

Hoping there are no more bumps in the road and he can truly have a nice residency when he gets matched.

 

[Banco]

Thank you for letting me know. Does he have to ask the Dean to add this in to the letter?

Thank you so much for this advice. The reassurance means a lot for both of us. A previous poster mentioned university based programs..do these tend to also be low/moderare competitive or is there no association ?

When should he start looking into residency programs?(of course after he focuses on step 1)

He does have research but it was a couple years ago when he worked at a Path lab before he got into med school.

Hoping there are no more bumps in the road and he can truly have a nice residency when he gets matched.

In general, university based/affiliated programs are more competitive to get into. However, even within that distinction there is a broad spectrum of competitiveness. For example the Harvards and Yales of the world are harder to get into than most, but there are plenty of great programs out there that one can be within reach for an average application. So overall, IM has plenty of variety to choose from.

Most important things to focus on for now would be Step scores/clerkship grades, and then some research when he gets the chance. People start looking into residency programs generally a couple weeks before they apply because by then they know what their application is suitable for, so he has time.

 

[Phloston]

Good morning,

I'm concerned about how I may have affected my SO's chances of getting into the residency he has always wanted and I'm ridden with guilt.

I had a difficult pregnancy and he ended up not passing two classes his second semester of M2 and subsequently took LOA. I gave birth two months later. I was in the hospital a lot and that affected his study time. We have no extra family help. Its just the two of us(now three ♥️).

He is excellent, doesnt have any other imperfections in his record, and also did a Masters before MD.
He has always wanted to go into Oncology.
I love him and want the best for him. How can Isupport better his dreams?

No one will care that he took LoA, especially since it was for family. Residencies will just look at his numbers - i.e., his 2CK and grades.

 

[Browns99]

No one will care that he took LoA, especially since it was for family. Residencies will just look at his numbers - i.e., his 2CK and grades.

Phloston, stop giving the wrong advice that that numbers are the only thing residencies are interested in. You said this in another thread in it is wrong. Residencies look at applicants' letters of rec (Strong), evaluations, performance on sub-i's, clinical, interviews, etc. Sure, numbers are part of it, but to say that's all they look at is completely false.

 

[Phloston]

Phloston, stop giving the wrong advice that that numbers are the only thing residencies are interested in. You said this in another thread in it is wrong. Residencies look at applicants' letters of rec (Strong), evaluations, performance on sub-i's, clinical, interviews, etc. Sure, numbers are part of it, but to say that's all they look at is completely false.

Let's get angry and reactive on a public forum because people have different views than your own.

 

[Browns99]

Let's get angry and reactive on a public forum because people have different views than your own.

Sorry, they're not different views, you are providing misinformation. BTW, who's angry?

 

[Phloston]

You can romanticize the notion of a "well-rounded application," but programs just care about numbers. That's just how it works.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Let's get angry and reactive on a public forum because people have different views than your own.

Sorry, they're not different views, you are providing misinformation. BTW, who's angry?

If you want to bicker, please take it to PMs. But FWIW, @Browns99 you're honing in on one part of @Phloston 's post (the numbers) and missing the part that actually pertains to the OP (that nobody is going to care about the LOA).

 

[Browns99]

If you want to bicker, please take it to PMs. But FWIW, @Browns99 you're honing in on one part of @Phloston 's post (the numbers) and missing the part that actually pertains to the OP (that nobody is going to care about the LOA).

Ok, I just don't want advice that is not totally accurate given to any of the impressionable med students who visit this site and see a post like that and think the only things they have to manage is the "numbers and grades/2CK", when in fact they should be developing mentors and trying to secure excellent letters of rec, which become very critical, especially in the competitive fields.

 

[Lost in Translation]

… I would believe the word of a verified attending who’s been on this site for 10 years over someone who joined 3 months ago…